Maintenance for the week of April 15:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 15
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
The PTS is now offline for the patch 10.0.0 maintenance and is currently unavailable.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656543/temporarily-taking-down-the-pts-the-pc-na-live-server
The issue is resolved, and the North American PC/Mac megaserver is now available. Thank you for your patience!

My opinion on the OLORIME and SPELL POWER CURE changes. (critique and suggestions)

FakeFox
FakeFox
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
In my opinion, as an experienced healer that uses both sets regularly, the changes to Olorime and Spell Power Cure are completely missing the mark. While PTS-patch 6.1.1 has partially solved the problems introduced in 6.1.0, it did not address the main issue.

With both Olorime and Spell Power Cure affecting 12 players now, there are three significant distinguishing factors.

1. Olorime can be used as a backbar set with no drawbacks, while SPC can at least not reliably or conveniently. This is a neat feature for Olorime, that works very well in certain builds, but generally is not crucial to its use as there are multiple other often used support sets that can be backbared instead.
2. Olorimes set bonuses consist of Magicka regeneration and Minor Aegis, with the only offensive stat being Magicka on the perfected version, however this bonus is basically lost if the set is worn on the backbar. SPC on the other hand has only offensive set bonuses. PvE healers currently need rather low sustain and sustain is generally very easy to efficiently come by with especially abilities, food and resource support in a group. Having regeneration on a gear set is a very inflexible and inefficient way of getting sustain and can lead to oversustain and an inefficient stat balance.
3. Olorime is a mechanically complex set that does require attention from the entire group to work well and can easily lose uptime if not used correctly. The wearer of the set needs to properly pace the AOE effect, in many fights alternating between multiple spots. And the receiving players need to either be properly positioned or actively move into the circle. SPC in contrast works entirely passive and can very conveniently be applied in almost all circumstances by simply having appropriate healing sources. This is, in my opinion, such a massive benefit to SPC, that for it alone it becomes a direct upgrade to Olorime if it affects 12 players. This is not only a question of convenience, it also means guaranteed near perfect uptimes in all circumstances, more freedom in tactics, less movement etc., all factors that can result in a DPS increase and reduction of deaths for a group.

The PTS changes so far have further reinforced the third point, with more reliability for Spell Power Cure and more difficulties for using Olorime.

To sum up my opinion: Spell Power Cure should not affect twelve players and does not even need to be buffed in the first place. As a five year old dungeon set it makes no sense for SPC to be a direct upgrade over a much newer trial set within twelve player content. SPC is neither a weak nor dead set and still very good in four player content, which is appropriate for a dungeon set. It can even be the better set for dungeon and arena builds, due to it’s offensive stats and passive nature. Making it a guaranteed proc is, however, while not completely necessary, a good change to me, making the set more reliable and convenient to use, especially for the builds that currently already work well with SPC. Further Olorime does not need any nerfs and especially no mechanic changes that make it more difficult to use. It is already a mechanically complex set with a healthy learning curve and massive duration reductions make it unnecessarily inconvenient.
Edited by FakeFox on July 23, 2020 2:04PM
EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
  • Luckylancer
    Luckylancer
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    In first week's patch notes SPC got masively buffed and Olorime got nerfed. Do you know which set was better inthat patch? OLORIME. It have a 100% up time with a DD that have a brain. SPC can not have 100% up time ever. Only thing SPC bringed to table was ability to buff sperated groups. Thats it.

    Now they made spc useless. Duration is so low, it will have a high downtime and you still want it to be even more weaker?

    Max mag and spell power are healing stats, dont portray them as offensive on a healer. But sustain is better on healer. Breton was the favorite healer class for long time because of better sustain. I would preffer Olorime's 2-3-4 piece bonus over SPC's.

    Channeled Focus
    Magicka Recovery Glyph
    Heavy Attacks
    Clockwork Citrus Filet (or Witchmothers)


    This is from alcast's templar healer guide. Can you see it? The heavy atack. Why would you waste time with heavy atack while you can cast more skills? Because you run out of magicka. So what do you need even while using Olorime? More magicka. Max mag is worse than spell damage and recovery in my opinion in long fights and SPC have more weaker max magicka too. SPC is inferior in every aspect other than giving buff to seperate groups.

    ZoS should make SPC best set for unorganised group and Olorime should stay best for organised groups. It is 12 men content set anyways. All you want is SPC to get removed (5 years old anyways!) and olorime to be the only healer set in the game that give major courage. I think they can remove sheer venom and other old buffed sets too because they are from 4 man content and 5 years old. What a stupid argumen this is, I cant believe you use it.
  • TPishek
    TPishek
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    SPC can not have 100% up time ever. Only thing SPC bringed to table was ability to buff sperated groups.

    It refreshes every time you take a little bit of healing, you can have it up 100% of the time easily.
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Saying you'r an experienced healer to sound good.
    And then said "Olorime is a mechanically complex set that does require attention from the entire group to work well and can easily lose uptime if not used correctly"

    Sorry dude, but their is nothing hard or complexe to get 100% uptime with this set.
    Even after the change it still gonna be 100% viable. Same for SPC.

    Also if you've to much sustain, change your stone or glyph, simple.
    No need to change everything...

    Edit : Also people need to stop about "olo need DD to paid attention" No, they do not need to paid attention.
    You'r supposed to put your "skill-proc" where it's needed. It's not to DD to search for it...
    Edited by Aznarb on July 24, 2020 1:51AM
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • BahometZ
    BahometZ
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Olo is more complex than SPC to proc.

    SPC literally just happens, Olo needs to be placed and for DPS to move on it.

    I know Olo is straightforward to regular raid groups, but regular raid groups are a small percentage of player base.

    The forums already are a select small percentage of the player base. The average player isn't here and isn't in a raid.
    Pact Magplar - Max CP (NA XB)
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    FakeFox wrote: »
    Spell Power Cure ... does not even need to be buffed in the first place.
    FakeFox wrote: »
    Further Olorime does not need any nerfs ...

    So don't change anything that's currently on Live?

    That's pretty boring.

    I don't think you're going to win any brownie points with ZOS for that conclusion.


    Olorime is currently far and away the "go-to" core set for PvE healers.

    It's time to shake it up.

    Edited by Taleof2Cities on July 24, 2020 8:28AM
  • FakeFox
    FakeFox
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    SPC can not have 100% up time ever.

    I am not sure why you think that is the case, but it is not. SPC can very easily get near perfect uptimes. SPC does apply from partial overhealing, so if the target is missing 1000 health for example and gets healed for 2000, SPC applies. 2-3 healing ticks per second a typical healing setup produces you are basically guaranteed to refresh SPC constantly.

    And on your second point. I'm not sure why you are quoting an Alcast build to me, but I will explain my point anyway. Regeneration is an important stat for healers, however if you have to much of it, it is a waste of potential other stats you could have instead. Currently it is rather easy as a healer to sustain with close to no regeneration and if I can literally not drop my regeneration any lower, because all I have is the regen from my two support sets, that is a problem. Magicka, Spelldamage and Crit are simply more flexible stats, as you can always get more regen from many different sources, which can depending on the build be more efficient then set bonuses. And yes, heavy attacks can be one of them.
    All you want is SPC to get removed (5 years old anyways!) and olorime to be the only healer set in the game that give major courage..

    Don't misrepresent my opinion. I have not said that, in fact I have stated the exact opposite. SPC has it's place in the game, in four player content, and I do not want to change that. In fact I am using the set my self there a lot, for the reasons I stated.
    Edited by FakeFox on July 24, 2020 10:09AM
    EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
  • FakeFox
    FakeFox
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Aznarb wrote: »
    Saying you'r an experienced healer to sound good.
    And then said "Olorime is a mechanically complex set that does require attention from the entire group to work well and can easily lose uptime if not used correctly"

    Sorry dude, but their is nothing hard or complexe to get 100% uptime with this set.
    Even after the change it still gonna be 100% viable. Same for SPC.

    Also if you've to much sustain, change your stone or glyph, simple.
    No need to change everything...

    Edit : Also people need to stop about "olo need DD to paid attention" No, they do not need to paid attention.
    You'r supposed to put your "skill-proc" where it's needed. It's not to DD to search for it...

    I'm not going to comment on the experience thing, just read my signature if you care.

    But to comment on the rest: If all DDs are stacked, Olorime needs no attention, yes. If you have combatprayer subgroups, it needs at least some from the healer. If you have more stacks then that, it becomes complicated. And if you have a completely split up group, like vAS for example, the damage dealers need to actively get Olorime. And that is only talking about experienced and disciplined groups.

    And yes, with the patch 6.1.1 changes, Olorime is still technically viable, but SPC is staight up better, for the reasons listed in my OP.

    But what if I can literally not drop any more sustain? Yes, that currently happens pretty easy with two support sets that have regen on them. Apart from that, even before that point it can already be theoretically more efficent to get your sustain from other sources, which is however impossible, as you can not drop the regen from a set to replace it.

    I agree that DDs should not need need to search Olorime, it should be clear to everyone where the healer places it. However that does not remove the duty from DDs that are not stacked to actively track their Major Courage duration and move to that location to refresh it.

    Edited by FakeFox on July 24, 2020 10:41AM
    EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
  • FakeFox
    FakeFox
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    FakeFox wrote: »
    Spell Power Cure ... does not even need to be buffed in the first place.
    FakeFox wrote: »
    Further Olorime does not need any nerfs ...

    So don't change anything that's currently on Live?

    That's pretty boring.

    I don't think you're going to win any brownie points with ZOS for that conclusion.


    Olorime is currently far and away the "go-to" core set for PvE healers.

    It's time to shake it up.

    Well, I guess I can't really disagree here.

    While I personally don't think a replacement for Olorime is necessary, I would not mind it. If it would be a new set, from new content, with an interesting mechanic, that is my primary point. Replacing Olorime with SPC archives the exact opposite. It replaces a set that was the go to for two years (2018-2020), with a set that already was the go to for three years (2015-2018).

    But maybe I should have offered alternative changes or a new set idea? :D I just didn't really see the value in that.
    Edited by FakeFox on July 24, 2020 10:30AM
    EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)
  • ewateo
    ewateo
    Soul Shriven
    I run four healers (templar, sorcerer, warden and necro) and use both sets. Point is that many sets are undergoing changes. Almost all that have a proc chance got it removed now with SPC amongst. Olorime has always had 100% uptime granted easily cause was like "fire and forget" for 30 seconds, and with possiblity of recasting ring 3 times at 3 different spots during this time. Although with a constant (over)healing SPC can have 90%-95% uptime many consider Olorime much better than SPC (especially damage dealers). From my experience SPC is easily applied cause you do what you do as a healer and OLO requires attention when applying, so I fully agree to the statements on this matter above. IMAO SPC with 6 players cap removed and no longer meeting 50% at full heath proc condition is trully better, even with Major Courage lasting 5 seconds only, making it viable for 12-man content and a slightly higher uptime. OLO is a trial set and should remain BIS for that content, though making it last "only" 20 seconds instead of 30 is a good change (how many other sets got this long lasting effect? so the same for Moondancer), but only 5 seconds for the ring is bad when you try to keep ring up all the time - especially when you run it one bar only and preferably ranged aoe skill to proc it directly to dds (so can use master restoration staff the other bar and apply it to a whole group + not applying ring to the tank).
    From my eperience OLO goes well in trials, not so good in dungeons (cause ppl often stack in four different directions :/) mostly because mechanics does not allow to stack and applying it individually is not very convenient cause it requires much attention which SPC does not). Also OLO is good to run with warden or necro as they have a class aoe healing skills that are targeted (templar can cast under self only so must stack in a small range with dds when casting it and can be also an issue with some mechanics) and can easily run it with one bar only.
    CONCLUSIONS - SPC buff & a minor nerf at the same time is ok - 12-man cap should be for all sets in general (ZOS is as usuall inconsistent in many fields). OLO "from 30 seconds to 20 nerf" is an adjustment to all other not only healing sets, though 5 seconds lasting ring is a bad idea.
  • Aznarb
    Aznarb
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    CONCLUSIONS - SPC buff & a minor nerf at the same time is ok - 12-man cap should be for all sets in general (ZOS is as usuall inconsistent in many fields). OLO "from 30 seconds to 20 nerf" is an adjustment to all other not only healing sets, though 5 seconds lasting ring is a bad idea.

    100% agree with this.
    [ PC EU ]

    [ Khuram-dar ]
    [ Khajiit ]
    [ Templar - Healer ]
    [Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]

  • Aleksnow
    Aleksnow
    Soul Shriven
    I agree. At the moment, it turns out that the perfect olorime that I collected in vRC + is worse than a set from an easy dungeon. And the raid leaders require me to wear this set from a easy dungeon
  • naarcx
    naarcx
    To me, you summed up the most important part of these two sets in your very first point:
    FakeFox wrote: »
    1. Olorime can be used as a backbar set with no drawbacks, while SPC can at least not reliably or conveniently.

    The fact that you can backbar Olorime makes it straight better in my book--no matter how much stronger the numbers on SPC may or may not be as they tweak things around. Honestly, all things considered, SPC *should* be the stronger set in a straight stats/numbers comparison since it cannot be backbared... Like, there should be some reward for having to mainset it or whatever.

    What I do like about making SPC a 12-person buff tho, is that it gives it more strength and makes it a more obvious choice in Cyrodil, where Olorime has a whole lot of wasted stats.
  • starkerealm
    starkerealm
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    naarcx wrote: »
    To me, you summed up the most important part of these two sets in your very first point:
    FakeFox wrote: »
    1. Olorime can be used as a backbar set with no drawbacks, while SPC can at least not reliably or conveniently.

    The fact that you can backbar Olorime makes it straight better in my book--no matter how much stronger the numbers on SPC may or may not be as they tweak things around. Honestly, all things considered, SPC *should* be the stronger set in a straight stats/numbers comparison since it cannot be backbared... Like, there should be some reward for having to mainset it or whatever.

    What I do like about making SPC a 12-person buff tho, is that it gives it more strength and makes it a more obvious choice in Cyrodil, where Olorime has a whole lot of wasted stats.

    That was always the difference. Olo is for stack and burn, SPC is for cat herding. If you've got a mechanically complex encounter where the DPS can't hang out in one blob for half a week while they melt, Olo is objectively the wrong choice.
  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    FakeFox wrote: »
    Spell Power Cure ... does not even need to be buffed in the first place.
    FakeFox wrote: »
    Further Olorime does not need any nerfs ...

    So don't change anything that's currently on Live?

    That's pretty boring.

    I don't think you're going to win any brownie points with ZOS for that conclusion.


    Olorime is currently far and away the "go-to" core set for PvE healers.

    It's time to shake it up.

    On live right now, every core/group I run with is using SPC. Specifically in Kyne's, it is infinitely more efficient than Olo. Olo can bunch people up for meteors, lightning, instability, etc. It's stupid inefficient and actually dangerous, whereas SPC is light years better in the current "highest" content, or at least newest.
  • vgabor
    vgabor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    On live right now, every core/group I run with is using SPC. Specifically in Kyne's, it is infinitely more efficient than Olo. Olo can bunch people up for meteors, lightning, instability, etc. It's stupid inefficient and actually dangerous, whereas SPC is light years better in the current "highest" content, or at least newest.

    ^^ This. On live servers currently for most vet trials SPC is the main buff set and Olo became an only occasionally used niche set.
  • Stahlor
    Stahlor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Aleksnow wrote: »
    ...is worse than a set from an easy dungeon...
    If you start arguing like that, we can swing the nerf hammer for lots of non-raid sets.

  • Skjaldbjorn
    Skjaldbjorn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    vgabor wrote: »
    On live right now, every core/group I run with is using SPC. Specifically in Kyne's, it is infinitely more efficient than Olo. Olo can bunch people up for meteors, lightning, instability, etc. It's stupid inefficient and actually dangerous, whereas SPC is light years better in the current "highest" content, or at least newest.

    ^^ This. On live servers currently for most vet trials SPC is the main buff set and Olo became an only occasionally used niche set.

    Depends on the trial. If you can stack, Olo is arguably better. If not, SPC is king by a thousand miles.
  • SeaUnicorn
    SeaUnicorn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    vgabor wrote: »
    On live right now, every core/group I run with is using SPC. Specifically in Kyne's, it is infinitely more efficient than Olo. Olo can bunch people up for meteors, lightning, instability, etc. It's stupid inefficient and actually dangerous, whereas SPC is light years better in the current "highest" content, or at least newest.

    ^^ This. On live servers currently for most vet trials SPC is the main buff set and Olo became an only occasionally used niche set.

    Depends on the trial. If you can stack, Olo is arguably better. If not, SPC is king by a thousand miles.

    It actually is not. Based on practical tests SPC is easy 90%+ uptimes in all trials, while olo is worse pretty much everywhere.
    Edited by SeaUnicorn on October 11, 2020 3:47PM
Sign In or Register to comment.