I'm all for changing Oblivion's Foe....but the proposed version is back to being a trap?

KingShocker · September 2020

it also forces you to use only the aoe morph. no point in even using the ult or other morph with this set.

so it's not really a set for an entire skill line as much as its just a set for just one specific morph.

why don't they ever think these things through?

Jodynn · September 2020

The change they made to this set doesn't make sense

It was niche, very niche and silly and unless you were using soul trap and soul assault both you were pretty much wasting a 5 piece set entirely, which in my opinion, it's not worth it anyway, but, moving on.

The change to a 1.2k DoT in PvE and a 600 DoT in PvP is just freaking hilarious, it's like sunderflame all over again, which they nerfed because apparently 700 damage per second or 1.35k damage per second is just too high for niche sets? But then they give other sets like the new set 40k, so 4k per second or 2k per second in pvp.. I'm just not sure I understand.. the.. logic.. here.

Not to mention, it would be nice to have sets that do something more interesting and intelligent based off of builds, but really since they're going to re-standardize the classes after all the sets ( which should have been first ) they can't exactly put them to new builds but current builds, but the thing is it's not even that well done because in PvE, it's one buff set basically for AoE, and ST. Some slight differences here and there, but it's mostly Mother Sorrow/Medusa/Acuity/Siroria or Yokeda/Relequen/couple more I'm getting lazy. In PvP it's more dynamic and you can use a lot of different sets in a lot of situations which is nice, but.. This?? This set change doesn't make any sense, sunderflame doesn't make any sense, Ysgramor doesn't make any sense.. annnnd so on.

precambria · September 2020

Yeah you are right, it will negate any reason to use consuming or soul assault for most builds if anyone actually uses it, it is OP on live there is no question I have taken almost 20k damage from a consuming trap and 37k from soul assault but I think the design of buffing the whole line (even the soul shatter passive) was WAY more interesting and opened up more build options than another cancer dot proc set that nobody wants in the game.

Nerhesi · October 2020

What is it on pts now? The notes are a little confusing

ealdwin · October 2020

Nerhesi wrote: »

What is it on pts now? The notes are a little confusing

Compiled from v6.2.1 and v6.2.2

2 piece: 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
3 piece: 1487 Offensive Penetration
4 piece: 657 Critical Chance
5 piece: 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
5 piece: Whenever you deal damage with Soul Magic using the 5-piece bonus, you mark the target’s soul, dealing 12820 Magic Damage over 10 seconds. This set will not refresh itself on targets it is already active on and will wait for the duration to end before reapplying.

Note: Haven't been able to get on the pts yet to verify / test.

Nerhesi · October 2020

Ok so Oblivion’s Foe:

2 piece: 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
3 piece: 1487 Offensive Penetration
4 piece: 657 Critical Chance
5 piece: 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
5 piece: 12820 Magic Damage over 10 seconds when (and you have to use you use soul trap)

Vs Icy Conjuror:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
(5 items) 21700 Frost Damage over 10 seconds - via any minor debuff and can proc chilled and minor maim.

So basically giving up 40% or so damage from the proc, to gain 129 spell power and 657 crit. Still seems to be a trap. I see they tried to overload its stats a bit but the crit chance is meh except maybe in pve (where it is a really bad choice?!)

Firstmep · October 2020

precambria wrote: »

Yeah you are right, it will negate any reason to use consuming or soul assault for most builds if anyone actually uses it, it is OP on live there is no question I have taken almost 20k damage from a consuming trap and 37k from soul assault but I think the design of buffing the whole line (even the soul shatter passive) was WAY more interesting and opened up more build options than another cancer dot proc set that nobody wants in the game.

It shouldn't take a set to make an entire skill line viable, same goes for master dual wieldz where ppl mostly use it to turn rending into a spammable.
Soul assault should be a potent singe target ultimate, in contrast both morphs of the bow ult are viable even if you don't specifically build for it.

Atherakhia · October 2020

Nerhesi wrote: »

Ok so Oblivion’s Foe:

2 piece: 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
3 piece: 1487 Offensive Penetration
4 piece: 657 Critical Chance
5 piece: 129 Weapon and Spell Damage
5 piece: 12820 Magic Damage over 10 seconds when (and you have to use you use soul trap)

Vs Icy Conjuror:

(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1487 Spell Penetration
(5 items) 21700 Frost Damage over 10 seconds - via any minor debuff and can proc chilled and minor maim.

So basically giving up 40% or so damage from the proc, to gain 129 spell power and 657 crit. Still seems to be a trap. I see they tried to overload its stats a bit but the crit chance is meh except maybe in pve (where it is a really bad choice?!)

The only other thing you didn't mention was, in theory as I haven't tested anything, is that Soul Trap has an AE morph. So in theory you could trigger the DOT on multiple targets. I suppose you could also trigger it on multiple targets with the single target morph too if it works like sheer venom?

In a perfect world they'd make either Icy or this set work more like sheer venom and be an execute and do insane damage on multiple targets over 6 seconds. But lawl, this is a mag set.. would never happe.

wheem_ESO · October 2020

I wish ZOS would at least change the 4 piece bonus on this new iteration of Oblivion's Foe. No one's going to use this set in PvE, Stamina builds aren't going to use it in PvP (just like they aren't now on live, since it's not actually anywhere near as OP as some seem to think), and Crit on a Magicka build that might use the set just isn't very valuable (and if you run Malacath it's obviously wasted entirely). This is, and will continue to be, a Magicka-PvP set, and more regen, damage, raw stat, or penetration would be much more useful.

ccfeeling · October 2020

I would say this is new garbage set.

Tbh, we need more experienced game developers.

I hope MS could do something with this team.

Firstmep · October 2020

ccfeeling wrote: »

I would say this is new garbage set.

Tbh, we need more experienced game developers.

I hope MS could do something with this team.

Depends, if you were using soul splitting trap before its definetly a nerf, but to be real the set needed it.
I know multiple ppl by name who spend entire bgs just putting soul trap and brp impulse on ppl and then cloak or streak away.
They end up getting lots of kills and assists passively, and run exactly 0 risk.
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of stamblades that do the same with Stam dot procs and those sets need to be toned down as well, period.
I'm actually surprised that this set is the first one on the chopping block as Stam procs are still far more prevalent.

wheem_ESO · October 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

I would say this is new garbage set.

Tbh, we need more experienced game developers.

I hope MS could do something with this team.

Depends, if you were using soul splitting trap before its definetly a nerf, but to be real the set needed it.
I know multiple ppl by name who spend entire bgs just putting soul trap and brp impulse on ppl and then cloak or streak away.
They end up getting lots of kills and assists passively, and run exactly 0 risk.
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of stamblades that do the same with Stam dot procs and those sets need to be toned down as well, period.
I'm actually surprised that this set is the first one on the chopping block as Stam procs are still far more prevalent.

I'm not sure what platform you're on, but this set is honestly not that common in PC-NA Battlegrounds. I've seen a few Magicka Warden and Magicka Necromancers (which is completely understandable, given how garbage their/our class is) running it, and maybe one or two other classes here and there. I've literally played for several hours straight, doing nothing but BGs with decently fast queue times, and not seen a single person other than myself running Oblivion's Foe.

In the same time frame I'll see a ton of Stamina proc sets, with many of those players getting the vast majority of their damage from doing nothing but Poison Injection, Bombard spam, and/or gap closer spam. And the funny part is that the baseline damage from either the Bombard or the gap closer is already roughly equal to what I eat from single target Magicka-based spammables.

The Stamina proc sets are infinitely more deserving of nerfs, especially since every Stamina build is absolutely 100% viable in PvP without using a single proc. Magicka Necromancer without Oblivion's Foe seems to be hot garbage. Even with it, the class is basically bottom of the barrel. And I'm not just saying that because I'm playing it, either - the others that I occasionally encounter aren't 1/10th as dangerous as any generic triple proc set Stam build, or even the occasional ones that aren't running any procs at all.

As I said previously, I'm fine with Oblivion's Foe being nerfed/changed, but I want Magicka Necromancer to be improved and bug-fixed, along with some heavy handed nerfs to Stamina-based proc sets.

Firstmep · October 2020

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

I would say this is new garbage set.

Tbh, we need more experienced game developers.

I hope MS could do something with this team.

Depends, if you were using soul splitting trap before its definetly a nerf, but to be real the set needed it.
I know multiple ppl by name who spend entire bgs just putting soul trap and brp impulse on ppl and then cloak or streak away.
They end up getting lots of kills and assists passively, and run exactly 0 risk.
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of stamblades that do the same with Stam dot procs and those sets need to be toned down as well, period.
I'm actually surprised that this set is the first one on the chopping block as Stam procs are still far more prevalent.

I'm not sure what platform you're on, but this set is honestly not that common in PC-NA Battlegrounds. I've seen a few Magicka Warden and Magicka Necromancers (which is completely understandable, given how garbage their/our class is) running it, and maybe one or two other classes here and there. I've literally played for several hours straight, doing nothing but BGs with decently fast queue times, and not seen a single person other than myself running Oblivion's Foe.

In the same time frame I'll see a ton of Stamina proc sets, with many of those players getting the vast majority of their damage from doing nothing but Poison Injection, Bombard spam, and/or gap closer spam. And the funny part is that the baseline damage from either the Bombard or the gap closer is already roughly equal to what I eat from single target Magicka-based spammables.

The Stamina proc sets are infinitely more deserving of nerfs, especially since every Stamina build is absolutely 100% viable in PvP without using a single proc. Magicka Necromancer without Oblivion's Foe seems to be hot garbage. Even with it, the class is basically bottom of the barrel. And I'm not just saying that because I'm playing it, either - the others that I occasionally encounter aren't 1/10th as dangerous as any generic triple proc set Stam build, or even the occasional ones that aren't running any procs at all.

As I said previously, I'm fine with Oblivion's Foe being nerfed/changed, but I want Magicka Necromancer to be improved and bug-fixed, along with some heavy handed nerfs to Stamina-based proc sets.

I mean you just repeated what i said.

I am not defending stam proc sets, but oblivions foe is no better than any of those. And again, all these dot procs need to be reigned in.

I dont actually mind people running this on magcro or warden as much as i do on nightblade, where you can take yourself out of the fight completely with cloak.

Either way, like i said, im suprised they put this set on the chopping block, but theyre keeping stam procs in tact.

But that doesnt mean that this set didnt deserve a nerf/change.

Also just like you shouldnt need master dual wield for rending to be worth slotting, you shouldnt need an entire 5pc set to make soul trap or soul assault worth using either.
Its bad game design, these skills need to be strong on their own.

wheem_ESO · October 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

I would say this is new garbage set.

Tbh, we need more experienced game developers.

I hope MS could do something with this team.

Depends, if you were using soul splitting trap before its definetly a nerf, but to be real the set needed it.
I know multiple ppl by name who spend entire bgs just putting soul trap and brp impulse on ppl and then cloak or streak away.
They end up getting lots of kills and assists passively, and run exactly 0 risk.
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of stamblades that do the same with Stam dot procs and those sets need to be toned down as well, period.
I'm actually surprised that this set is the first one on the chopping block as Stam procs are still far more prevalent.

I'm not sure what platform you're on, but this set is honestly not that common in PC-NA Battlegrounds. I've seen a few Magicka Warden and Magicka Necromancers (which is completely understandable, given how garbage their/our class is) running it, and maybe one or two other classes here and there. I've literally played for several hours straight, doing nothing but BGs with decently fast queue times, and not seen a single person other than myself running Oblivion's Foe.

In the same time frame I'll see a ton of Stamina proc sets, with many of those players getting the vast majority of their damage from doing nothing but Poison Injection, Bombard spam, and/or gap closer spam. And the funny part is that the baseline damage from either the Bombard or the gap closer is already roughly equal to what I eat from single target Magicka-based spammables.

The Stamina proc sets are infinitely more deserving of nerfs, especially since every Stamina build is absolutely 100% viable in PvP without using a single proc. Magicka Necromancer without Oblivion's Foe seems to be hot garbage. Even with it, the class is basically bottom of the barrel. And I'm not just saying that because I'm playing it, either - the others that I occasionally encounter aren't 1/10th as dangerous as any generic triple proc set Stam build, or even the occasional ones that aren't running any procs at all.

As I said previously, I'm fine with Oblivion's Foe being nerfed/changed, but I want Magicka Necromancer to be improved and bug-fixed, along with some heavy handed nerfs to Stamina-based proc sets.

I mean you just repeated what i said.

I am not defending stam proc sets, but oblivions foe is no better than any of those. And again, all these dot procs need to be reigned in.

I dont actually mind people running this on magcro or warden as much as i do on nightblade, where you can take yourself out of the fight completely with cloak.

Either way, like i said, im suprised they put this set on the chopping block, but theyre keeping stam procs in tact.

But that doesnt mean that this set didnt deserve a nerf/change.

Also just like you shouldnt need master dual wield for rending to be worth slotting, you shouldnt need an entire 5pc set to make soul trap or soul assault worth using either.
Its bad game design, these skills need to be strong on their own.

The only real point of disagreement was the prevalence of Oblivion's Foe. I don't know if I've actually seen any Magicka Nightblades running it...partly because I rarely see Magicka Nightblades in BGs.

Oblivion's Foe is like Sload's in that it is a crafted set that is equally usable by both Magicka and Stamina builds. If OF were truly comparable to all the "Stamina only" proc sets, we should be seeing it everywhere, as we did with Sload's and currently do with other proc sets. Instead I only see a handful of players using it at all, and most of them have been either Magicka Necromancers or Magicka Wardens.

Atherakhia · October 2020

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

I would say this is new garbage set.

Tbh, we need more experienced game developers.

I hope MS could do something with this team.

Depends, if you were using soul splitting trap before its definetly a nerf, but to be real the set needed it.
I know multiple ppl by name who spend entire bgs just putting soul trap and brp impulse on ppl and then cloak or streak away.
They end up getting lots of kills and assists passively, and run exactly 0 risk.
Don't get me wrong there are a lot of stamblades that do the same with Stam dot procs and those sets need to be toned down as well, period.
I'm actually surprised that this set is the first one on the chopping block as Stam procs are still far more prevalent.

I'm not sure what platform you're on, but this set is honestly not that common in PC-NA Battlegrounds. I've seen a few Magicka Warden and Magicka Necromancers (which is completely understandable, given how garbage their/our class is) running it, and maybe one or two other classes here and there. I've literally played for several hours straight, doing nothing but BGs with decently fast queue times, and not seen a single person other than myself running Oblivion's Foe.

In the same time frame I'll see a ton of Stamina proc sets, with many of those players getting the vast majority of their damage from doing nothing but Poison Injection, Bombard spam, and/or gap closer spam. And the funny part is that the baseline damage from either the Bombard or the gap closer is already roughly equal to what I eat from single target Magicka-based spammables.

The Stamina proc sets are infinitely more deserving of nerfs, especially since every Stamina build is absolutely 100% viable in PvP without using a single proc. Magicka Necromancer without Oblivion's Foe seems to be hot garbage. Even with it, the class is basically bottom of the barrel. And I'm not just saying that because I'm playing it, either - the others that I occasionally encounter aren't 1/10th as dangerous as any generic triple proc set Stam build, or even the occasional ones that aren't running any procs at all.

As I said previously, I'm fine with Oblivion's Foe being nerfed/changed, but I want Magicka Necromancer to be improved and bug-fixed, along with some heavy handed nerfs to Stamina-based proc sets.

I mean you just repeated what i said.

I am not defending stam proc sets, but oblivions foe is no better than any of those. And again, all these dot procs need to be reigned in.

I dont actually mind people running this on magcro or warden as much as i do on nightblade, where you can take yourself out of the fight completely with cloak.

Either way, like i said, im suprised they put this set on the chopping block, but theyre keeping stam procs in tact.

But that doesnt mean that this set didnt deserve a nerf/change.

Also just like you shouldnt need master dual wield for rending to be worth slotting, you shouldnt need an entire 5pc set to make soul trap or soul assault worth using either.
Its bad game design, these skills need to be strong on their own.

The only real point of disagreement was the prevalence of Oblivion's Foe. I don't know if I've actually seen any Magicka Nightblades running it...partly because I rarely see Magicka Nightblades in BGs.

Oblivion's Foe is like Sload's in that it is a crafted set that is equally usable by both Magicka and Stamina builds. If OF were truly comparable to all the "Stamina only" proc sets, we should be seeing it everywhere, as we did with Sload's and currently do with other proc sets. Instead I only see a handful of players using it at all, and most of them have been either Magicka Necromancers or Magicka Wardens.

People run it on live right now because of soul assault. You can get like 8k ticks with this thing on soul assault which will wipe out pretty much anyone. The changes make that type of gameplay useless because no one will use this set for a DOT on soul assault. Instead the only real benefit from the 5pc is going to be with splitting trap. If you wanted to run a DOT set you'd still run Icy.

If this were a stam set, they'd make the DOT an execute and deal more damage the lower health a person had, it would be over 6 seconds, and would have no cooldown. But hey, it's not a stam set.