MirkoZ wrote: »

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

This is the thing that always gets me about people in MMOs and particularly around the topic of evasiveness (especially stealth or kiting).

People build warrior archetype characters who excel at standing their ground and fighting. Heavy armour, big weapon, maybe a shield. And I'm not just talking about ESO here. Playing that kind of character might be your power fantasy. That's totally cool. But for others, they might want to play an evasive assassin, powerful mage or a trickster. Each of these archetypes has a win condition. For the warrior it's to stand there and fight. So it's quite understandable that someone who wants to play a warrior would find it frustrating or even deem it "cowardly" to not just stand there and fight. But really, if someone who isn't built the same way as you stands there and fights on your terms you're going to win. But I suppose that's what you want, right? You want people to play on your terms or die on your terms. So when someone comes along with a mage that kites you, or an assassin that ambushes you... that makes you mad. You came here for 1 on 1 melee combat. And this guy just came along and almost killed you. And what's worse... the guy just vanished before you had a chance to land your meaty melee combo on them.

The truth is, ESO gives you a lot of tools as a melee warrior to deal with stealth and kiting. You've got camo hunter to prevent people re-stealthing. You have AOEs to take people out of stealth. You have gap closers and pulls to stop someone kiting you. You have cover to force a ranged character to come close.

Does it sting to be killed by a sniper or a group of gankers? Of course. But it also stings to be one shot by a Warden's Sub Assault > Dizzy > Medium Attack > Execute combo and die to someone who was seemingly too tanky to simple one-shot you like that. Yes yes, I know it's a harder combo to pull off because you don't have the element of surprise. But you know what? Different classes excel in different areas. To complain about a Nightblade using cloak, a Warden having access to powerful buffs, a Sorcerer using Streak or a Dragonknight using leap is asinine. Those are some of the class-defining abilities. Do some people play those classes without those abilities? Sure. But you can't get mad at people for using the strongest tools in their classes' kit. If I can't use Streak... you can't use Sub Assault. Deal?

Facts. As if being killed by these Stamden and Stamsorcs is fun lol. I have to sneak/cloak in order to be effective, and I can't count how many times I attempted to attack one of the above and my burst is healed through or shielded as though it never happened lol. Then if caught they can typically destroy me in seconds. They're just angry that they can't get free kills off me most of the time.

Interesting how many times you guys quote stamsorc like it is the most op class while in cyrodil there are like 10 of them , cuz ofc they are good only in mobility and yeah they are fun , but don't write it beside stamden, stamcro, stamblade. Thanks

Xiomaro wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

This is the thing that always gets me about people in MMOs and particularly around the topic of evasiveness (especially stealth or kiting).

People build warrior archetype characters who excel at standing their ground and fighting. Heavy armour, big weapon, maybe a shield. And I'm not just talking about ESO here. Playing that kind of character might be your power fantasy. That's totally cool. But for others, they might want to play an evasive assassin, powerful mage or a trickster. Each of these archetypes has a win condition. For the warrior it's to stand there and fight. So it's quite understandable that someone who wants to play a warrior would find it frustrating or even deem it "cowardly" to not just stand there and fight. But really, if someone who isn't built the same way as you stands there and fights on your terms you're going to win. But I suppose that's what you want, right? You want people to play on your terms or die on your terms. So when someone comes along with a mage that kites you, or an assassin that ambushes you... that makes you mad. You came here for 1 on 1 melee combat. And this guy just came along and almost killed you. And what's worse... the guy just vanished before you had a chance to land your meaty melee combo on them.

The truth is, ESO gives you a lot of tools as a melee warrior to deal with stealth and kiting. You've got camo hunter to prevent people re-stealthing. You have AOEs to take people out of stealth. You have gap closers and pulls to stop someone kiting you. You have cover to force a ranged character to come close.

Does it sting to be killed by a sniper or a group of gankers? Of course. But it also stings to be one shot by a Warden's Sub Assault > Dizzy > Medium Attack > Execute combo and die to someone who was seemingly too tanky to simple one-shot you like that. Yes yes, I know it's a harder combo to pull off because you don't have the element of surprise. But you know what? Different classes excel in different areas. To complain about a Nightblade using cloak, a Warden having access to powerful buffs, a Sorcerer using Streak or a Dragonknight using leap is asinine. Those are some of the class-defining abilities. Do some people play those classes without those abilities? Sure. But you can't get mad at people for using the strongest tools in their classes' kit. If I can't use Streak... you can't use Sub Assault. Deal?

Facts. As if being killed by these Stamden and Stamsorcs is fun lol. I have to sneak/cloak in order to be effective, and I can't count how many times I attempted to attack one of the above and my burst is healed through or shielded as though it never happened lol. Then if caught they can typically destroy me in seconds. They're just angry that they can't get free kills off me most of the time.

Interesting how many times you guys quote stamsorc like it is the most op class while in cyrodil there are like 10 of them , cuz ofc they are good only in mobility and yeah they are fun , but don't write it beside stamden, stamcro, stamblade. Thanks

You should see what dc on Raven watch Na pc looks like. I swear it is about 70% stamsorcs(The feng affect?). Not saying its an op class, but they are up their with stamden, stamcro, and stamblade for sure. Those would be the S tier classes right now, with all the other classes falling into lower tiers.

half the passives are useless , the spammable that they gave us is a more clunky crushing weapon, we have streak ye, we can spam it like 3 times maybe not more .
we have no class ultimate that scales with stamina or wd, we can't apply major fracture with our class kit if you want to, you have to use caltrops or 1h&s, same with major defile and others , we miss a lot of major and minor buffs that other classes have access to . but yeah keep writing stamsorc beside stamden, stamcro, stamblade.

I think the distinction to be made is proc StamSorc in No-CP. Absolutely, 100%, Stamsorc is S tier in that scenario.

With no procs, StamSorc is middle of the pack at best for all the reasons you mentioned. I'm pretty sure the lightning ultimate scales with your highest stat so we do technically have a class ultimate that scales with weapon damage. Negate is also incredibly strong in certain scenarios, regardless of how it scales.

Stamsorc's unique selling point is speed and sustain. We can stack speed better than anything else in the game but we still get grief for using Streak for some reason. Without procs our best way of winning against an equally skilled DK, Warden or Necro is to drain their resources by constantly forcing them to remove immobilise and break free. Apparently that's cheesy but it's all we've got. We don't have a hope in hell of out-bursting them because we don't have anything in our kit to do so.

Juhasow wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

This is the thing that always gets me about people in MMOs and particularly around the topic of evasiveness (especially stealth or kiting).

People build warrior archetype characters who excel at standing their ground and fighting. Heavy armour, big weapon, maybe a shield. And I'm not just talking about ESO here. Playing that kind of character might be your power fantasy. That's totally cool. But for others, they might want to play an evasive assassin, powerful mage or a trickster. Each of these archetypes has a win condition. For the warrior it's to stand there and fight. So it's quite understandable that someone who wants to play a warrior would find it frustrating or even deem it "cowardly" to not just stand there and fight. But really, if someone who isn't built the same way as you stands there and fights on your terms you're going to win. But I suppose that's what you want, right? You want people to play on your terms or die on your terms. So when someone comes along with a mage that kites you, or an assassin that ambushes you... that makes you mad. You came here for 1 on 1 melee combat. And this guy just came along and almost killed you. And what's worse... the guy just vanished before you had a chance to land your meaty melee combo on them.

The truth is, ESO gives you a lot of tools as a melee warrior to deal with stealth and kiting. You've got camo hunter to prevent people re-stealthing. You have AOEs to take people out of stealth. You have gap closers and pulls to stop someone kiting you. You have cover to force a ranged character to come close.

Does it sting to be killed by a sniper or a group of gankers? Of course. But it also stings to be one shot by a Warden's Sub Assault > Dizzy > Medium Attack > Execute combo and die to someone who was seemingly too tanky to simple one-shot you like that. Yes yes, I know it's a harder combo to pull off because you don't have the element of surprise. But you know what? Different classes excel in different areas. To complain about a Nightblade using cloak, a Warden having access to powerful buffs, a Sorcerer using Streak or a Dragonknight using leap is asinine. Those are some of the class-defining abilities. Do some people play those classes without those abilities? Sure. But you can't get mad at people for using the strongest tools in their classes' kit. If I can't use Streak... you can't use Sub Assault. Deal?

Facts. As if being killed by these Stamden and Stamsorcs is fun lol. I have to sneak/cloak in order to be effective, and I can't count how many times I attempted to attack one of the above and my burst is healed through or shielded as though it never happened lol. Then if caught they can typically destroy me in seconds. They're just angry that they can't get free kills off me most of the time.

Interesting how many times you guys quote stamsorc like it is the most op class while in cyrodil there are like 10 of them , cuz ofc they are good only in mobility and yeah they are fun , but don't write it beside stamden, stamcro, stamblade. Thanks

You should see what dc on Raven watch Na pc looks like. I swear it is about 70% stamsorcs(The feng affect?). Not saying its an op class, but they are up their with stamden, stamcro, and stamblade for sure. Those would be the S tier classes right now, with all the other classes falling into lower tiers.

half the passives are useless , the spammable that they gave us is a more clunky crushing weapon, we have streak ye, we can spam it like 3 times maybe not more .
we have no class ultimate that scales with stamina or wd, we can't apply major fracture with our class kit if you want to, you have to use caltrops or 1h&s, same with major defile and others , we miss a lot of major and minor buffs that other classes have access to . but yeah keep writing stamsorc beside stamden, stamcro, stamblade.

I think the distinction to be made is proc StamSorc in No-CP. Absolutely, 100%, Stamsorc is S tier in that scenario.

With no procs, StamSorc is middle of the pack at best for all the reasons you mentioned. I'm pretty sure the lightning ultimate scales with your highest stat so we do technically have a class ultimate that scales with weapon damage. Negate is also incredibly strong in certain scenarios, regardless of how it scales.

Stamsorc's unique selling point is speed and sustain. We can stack speed better than anything else in the game but we still get grief for using Streak for some reason. Without procs our best way of winning against an equally skilled DK, Warden or Necro is to drain their resources by constantly forcing them to remove immobilise and break free. Apparently that's cheesy but it's all we've got. We don't have a hope in hell of out-bursting them because we don't have anything in our kit to do so.

I think there are not ultimates that scales with highest offensive stats in the sorc kit and even if there were they deal magic dmg so they do not benefit of phisical pen.

Every ultimate scales with higher stat (mar or stam and wep or spell dmg). Penetration or percentage modofiers arguments are only relevant in CP PvP when it comes to stamsorc.

Juhasow wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

This is the thing that always gets me about people in MMOs and particularly around the topic of evasiveness (especially stealth or kiting).

People build warrior archetype characters who excel at standing their ground and fighting. Heavy armour, big weapon, maybe a shield. And I'm not just talking about ESO here. Playing that kind of character might be your power fantasy. That's totally cool. But for others, they might want to play an evasive assassin, powerful mage or a trickster. Each of these archetypes has a win condition. For the warrior it's to stand there and fight. So it's quite understandable that someone who wants to play a warrior would find it frustrating or even deem it "cowardly" to not just stand there and fight. But really, if someone who isn't built the same way as you stands there and fights on your terms you're going to win. But I suppose that's what you want, right? You want people to play on your terms or die on your terms. So when someone comes along with a mage that kites you, or an assassin that ambushes you... that makes you mad. You came here for 1 on 1 melee combat. And this guy just came along and almost killed you. And what's worse... the guy just vanished before you had a chance to land your meaty melee combo on them.

The truth is, ESO gives you a lot of tools as a melee warrior to deal with stealth and kiting. You've got camo hunter to prevent people re-stealthing. You have AOEs to take people out of stealth. You have gap closers and pulls to stop someone kiting you. You have cover to force a ranged character to come close.

Does it sting to be killed by a sniper or a group of gankers? Of course. But it also stings to be one shot by a Warden's Sub Assault > Dizzy > Medium Attack > Execute combo and die to someone who was seemingly too tanky to simple one-shot you like that. Yes yes, I know it's a harder combo to pull off because you don't have the element of surprise. But you know what? Different classes excel in different areas. To complain about a Nightblade using cloak, a Warden having access to powerful buffs, a Sorcerer using Streak or a Dragonknight using leap is asinine. Those are some of the class-defining abilities. Do some people play those classes without those abilities? Sure. But you can't get mad at people for using the strongest tools in their classes' kit. If I can't use Streak... you can't use Sub Assault. Deal?

Facts. As if being killed by these Stamden and Stamsorcs is fun lol. I have to sneak/cloak in order to be effective, and I can't count how many times I attempted to attack one of the above and my burst is healed through or shielded as though it never happened lol. Then if caught they can typically destroy me in seconds. They're just angry that they can't get free kills off me most of the time.

Interesting how many times you guys quote stamsorc like it is the most op class while in cyrodil there are like 10 of them , cuz ofc they are good only in mobility and yeah they are fun , but don't write it beside stamden, stamcro, stamblade. Thanks

You should see what dc on Raven watch Na pc looks like. I swear it is about 70% stamsorcs(The feng affect?). Not saying its an op class, but they are up their with stamden, stamcro, and stamblade for sure. Those would be the S tier classes right now, with all the other classes falling into lower tiers.

half the passives are useless , the spammable that they gave us is a more clunky crushing weapon, we have streak ye, we can spam it like 3 times maybe not more .
we have no class ultimate that scales with stamina or wd, we can't apply major fracture with our class kit if you want to, you have to use caltrops or 1h&s, same with major defile and others , we miss a lot of major and minor buffs that other classes have access to . but yeah keep writing stamsorc beside stamden, stamcro, stamblade.

I think the distinction to be made is proc StamSorc in No-CP. Absolutely, 100%, Stamsorc is S tier in that scenario.

With no procs, StamSorc is middle of the pack at best for all the reasons you mentioned. I'm pretty sure the lightning ultimate scales with your highest stat so we do technically have a class ultimate that scales with weapon damage. Negate is also incredibly strong in certain scenarios, regardless of how it scales.

Stamsorc's unique selling point is speed and sustain. We can stack speed better than anything else in the game but we still get grief for using Streak for some reason. Without procs our best way of winning against an equally skilled DK, Warden or Necro is to drain their resources by constantly forcing them to remove immobilise and break free. Apparently that's cheesy but it's all we've got. We don't have a hope in hell of out-bursting them because we don't have anything in our kit to do so.

I think there are not ultimates that scales with highest offensive stats in the sorc kit and even if there were they deal magic dmg so they do not benefit of phisical pen.

Every ultimate scales with higher stat (mar or stam and wep or spell dmg). Penetration or percentage modofiers arguments are only relevant in CP PvP when it comes to stamsorc.

We are on "PVP combat and skills" section

Yes and PvP is divided into CP and no CP.

Mobius0 wrote: »

People that tout "skill" as being the true factor of good PvPers, are delusional. Go play Overwatch if skill is all that matters to you. In an MMO, if strategy doesn't trump skill, then it's less than ideal IMO. If you come to a fight with a better kit, you should win even with inferior skill (within reason, of course.)

Just because someone doesn't play by what you consider to be right or fair, does not automatically make them cowards.

A stealth ganker, for example, has considerable weaknesses. They are vulnerable if detection tools are used against them. They can't ride a horse, can't use a siege weapon, etc..

Whatever the case, if you run into 1v6, you should die, stealth gankers or not.

If there's so many cowardly stealth gankers out there, use one of the plethora of ways to hunt them down, and get some easy kills. Otherwise, take the death and move on to your objective, realizing that Cyrodiil isn't just about 1vX battles.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

MirkoZ wrote: »

pauld1_ESO wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

This is the thing that always gets me about people in MMOs and particularly around the topic of evasiveness (especially stealth or kiting).

People build warrior archetype characters who excel at standing their ground and fighting. Heavy armour, big weapon, maybe a shield. And I'm not just talking about ESO here. Playing that kind of character might be your power fantasy. That's totally cool. But for others, they might want to play an evasive assassin, powerful mage or a trickster. Each of these archetypes has a win condition. For the warrior it's to stand there and fight. So it's quite understandable that someone who wants to play a warrior would find it frustrating or even deem it "cowardly" to not just stand there and fight. But really, if someone who isn't built the same way as you stands there and fights on your terms you're going to win. But I suppose that's what you want, right? You want people to play on your terms or die on your terms. So when someone comes along with a mage that kites you, or an assassin that ambushes you... that makes you mad. You came here for 1 on 1 melee combat. And this guy just came along and almost killed you. And what's worse... the guy just vanished before you had a chance to land your meaty melee combo on them.

The truth is, ESO gives you a lot of tools as a melee warrior to deal with stealth and kiting. You've got camo hunter to prevent people re-stealthing. You have AOEs to take people out of stealth. You have gap closers and pulls to stop someone kiting you. You have cover to force a ranged character to come close.

Does it sting to be killed by a sniper or a group of gankers? Of course. But it also stings to be one shot by a Warden's Sub Assault > Dizzy > Medium Attack > Execute combo and die to someone who was seemingly too tanky to simple one-shot you like that. Yes yes, I know it's a harder combo to pull off because you don't have the element of surprise. But you know what? Different classes excel in different areas. To complain about a Nightblade using cloak, a Warden having access to powerful buffs, a Sorcerer using Streak or a Dragonknight using leap is asinine. Those are some of the class-defining abilities. Do some people play those classes without those abilities? Sure. But you can't get mad at people for using the strongest tools in their classes' kit. If I can't use Streak... you can't use Sub Assault. Deal?

Facts. As if being killed by these Stamden and Stamsorcs is fun lol. I have to sneak/cloak in order to be effective, and I can't count how many times I attempted to attack one of the above and my burst is healed through or shielded as though it never happened lol. Then if caught they can typically destroy me in seconds. They're just angry that they can't get free kills off me most of the time.

Interesting how many times you guys quote stamsorc like it is the most op class while in cyrodil there are like 10 of them , cuz ofc they are good only in mobility and yeah they are fun , but don't write it beside stamden, stamcro, stamblade. Thanks

You should see what dc on Raven watch Na pc looks like. I swear it is about 70% stamsorcs(The feng affect?). Not saying its an op class, but they are up their with stamden, stamcro, and stamblade for sure. Those would be the S tier classes right now, with all the other classes falling into lower tiers.