Recapitated wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The only issue with going back to 0 proc sets is the class imbalance becomes very apparent.

Some classes use proc sets to compliment the build.

Tbf its really the stam proc sets that are the issue

What are you thinking of aside from Caluurion's?

Used to compliment builds?
Winterborn on Warden comes to mind
Cal on Magblade
Icy Conjurer (or other dot proc) for mag sorc
Health Proc for magden

Just off the top of my head.

This is why I feel stamina is lopsided, the access to weapon abilities that cover gaps in classes make procs overboard.

Mag version have gaps, less now with some guild abilities

Hm. The most commonly used proc sets I see for mag are Overwhelming, Grothdarr, and Auroran, and those 3 are pretty far behind compared to that. I don't really feel like magsorc needs to be thrown a bone, I main one.

But point taken. Would much rather they do a patch with no new set and more options for mag classes that have nothing to work with in their toolkit.

Auroran? Where? Oblivions is much better and you can apply from max range.
Overwhelming grothdaar I see less and less in bgs, magplars aren't doing too hot this patch and a lot of magdks switched to syvarras to support their stampool.
Icy conjuror is nice, but it's only 1 target per cooldown, kinda same reason I don't like widow maker even though it can deal insane dmg.
Caluu is defo the best burst proc atm, but for dot procs Stam ones are generally better IMHO.
On EU for mag the most used procs I see are caluu, winter born and oblivions.
A lot of magdens also run ice furnace it's not a lot of dmg but it kinda operates like dot procs since it can proc so often.

I just finished up leveling my Magden and I like it quite a bit where it kind of has the same play style as my magblade somehow. I've noticed a lot of Magblade mains have switched to playing them like Danny. I don't know if you enjoy playing melee magblade, but a few of us Maglbade mains on xbox play our stamblade like a magblade with our bow pretty much acting as our resto when procing relentless. It just feels smoother and the damage is really easy to get while being tanky.

I am kind of excited for next patch only because of the small part in the patch notes that said that light and heavy attacks will scale with the highest stat for all weapons. I am getting excited since it means melee magblade could make a comeback though it might be hard without a burst heal.

JayKwellen wrote: »

SRASinister wrote: »

@SRASinister Yeah Caluurions doesn't bother me anymore when I see it on my death recap. Last night when I was fighting your group as soon as i got up I would get hit by hit by two coldfire, the 2 venom procs with another dot proc mixed in, and your Caluurions was honestly a breath of fresh air with that group lol. When I finally got out of range of the coldfire I could kill the 4 chasing me though I have no idea what happened to you since you were fighting my two other group mates. I had to really sweat to get kills on my magblade where when I play other classes it is just so much easier. The one guy I was playing with was streaming and lol kept commenting about me dying when he rez'd me.

Yeah my husband and I roll together most nights and we usually just bounce around defending home keeps, which is probably where we ran into you. I know we've run into your groups before though and y'all always make it a good fight and a good time. I'll admit though, these days unless EP is tearing up our home keeps we typically just stick to the blue side. Not saying EP is cool or anything crazy like that...but that last campaign we spent with you guys might have softened us up a bit towards our red neighbors. Don't tell nobody tho.

And you're definitely right about that magblade sweat for sure. Despite having a perfectly fine stamden and stamDK the magblade is actually all I play anymore, I think I might be an unintentional masochist lol. Despite how irritating it can be sometimes, especially when I get myself killed by my own dumb s*** like shading up a tower and rolling off the top to my death, dropping my shade in a dumb spot or gapclosing someone outside its range, lotus fanning into a wardens shalks, killing myself off a reflected spectral bow, etc. (it's a long list lol), something about it just feels extra special when you do get that good clean kill because you know you earned it ya know?

Baphomet wrote: »

Being able to apply 4-5 DoTs with the use of one ability + a light attack is just downright bad game design. This patch is even worse that the DoT meta we had a while ago.

If this is the way they want to go, purge should cost way less, because all classes should have easy access to purging when there's easy access to an absurd amount of proc-DoTs.

But still, the current combat team seems oblivious to the previous team's errors in the past and are making all the same mistakes again, one by one...

They outright said they wanted to make it easier on ppl with low apm, bad buff management etc.
Procsets fall in line with that mentality.

I mentioned in the original post that I wasn't going to make suggestions as to how procs could be fixed. But I had a few thoughts after reading some opinions here.

Current Procs

To fix the issue of the current proc sets, I think a global 1 to 3 second cooldown on procs would go some of the way to helping. It doesn't sound like much but it prevents some of the "7 dots in 2 globals" stuff from happening. I think 3 seconds would be ideal but some procs have a 1 second internal cooldown so they'd need to be reworked.

Additionally, procs with AOE components like Venomous Smite, Syvarra's Scales, Unleashed Terror, Merciless Charge, Sheer Venom etc need to have their damage split between the number of people they hit. That way on single targets, they're in-line with everything else. But the more people you proc it on, the less damage it does to each individual.

Future Proc Sets

Part of ESO's design is to continuously release new sets with each DLC and I totally get why. The problem is, there are only so many iterations of pure stat sets you can do within the set power budget. With ESO's business model, more proc sets are inevitable. After reading what some of you have said about certain procs feeling fair or even making a class playable because they plug holes in the kit (DOTs for Stamsorcs, extra burst for Magblades etc) I think class-specific sets would be a good way to go. This may go against ESO's initial design philosophy of "anyone can wear anything". But I think it would be SO much easier to balance if ZOS designed sets around enhancing class abilities. For example, I would really like some DOTs or delayed burst on my Stamsorc, maybe you could have a set that changes Crystal Weapon into a damage over time ability. And for Magblade, you could have a set that turns, say, Cripple/Debilitate into a delayed burst ability.

You could also extend these set ideas beyond classes and for guild and weapon trees. Those already exist to an extent with sets that help vampires, werewolves or give stats to specific types of abilities. But instead of just raw stats, you could have sets that change what an ability does. It wouldn't make the skills better, they would just be side grades.

Xiomaro wrote: »

Future Proc Sets

Part of ESO's design is to continuously release new sets with each DLC and I totally get why. The problem is, there are only so many iterations of pure stat sets you can do within the set power budget. With ESO's business model, more proc sets are inevitable. After reading what some of you have said about certain procs feeling fair or even making a class playable because they plug holes in the kit (DOTs for Stamsorcs, extra burst for Magblades etc) I think class-specific sets would be a good way to go. This may go against ESO's initial design philosophy of "anyone can wear anything". But I think it would be SO much easier to balance if ZOS designed sets around enhancing class abilities. For example, I would really like some DOTs or delayed burst on my Stamsorc, maybe you could have a set that changes Crystal Weapon into a damage over time ability. And for Magblade, you could have a set that turns, say, Cripple/Debilitate into a delayed burst ability.

You could also extend these set ideas beyond classes and for guild and weapon trees. Those already exist to an extent with sets that help vampires, werewolves or give stats to specific types of abilities. But instead of just raw stats, you could have sets that change what an ability does. It wouldn't make the skills better, they would just be side grades.

I like this a lot

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Xiomaro wrote: »

I mentioned in the original post that I wasn't going to make suggestions as to how procs could be fixed. But I had a few thoughts after reading some opinions here.

Current Procs

To fix the issue of the current proc sets, I think a global 1 to 3 second cooldown on procs would go some of the way to helping. It doesn't sound like much but it prevents some of the "7 dots in 2 globals" stuff from happening. I think 3 seconds would be ideal but some procs have a 1 second internal cooldown so they'd need to be reworked.

Additionally, procs with AOE components like Venomous Smite, Syvarra's Scales, Unleashed Terror, Merciless Charge, Sheer Venom etc need to have their damage split between the number of people they hit. That way on single targets, they're in-line with everything else. But the more people you proc it on, the less damage it does to each individual.

An alternative to this could be as suggested here (not my idea, but I think it has potential)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/547447/make-proc-sets-crit-again-and-reduce-the-tooltips

Basically, if proc's could crit again, but the tooltips were reduced to say 70-80% of current this would mean
1) A crit of a proc set (assuming ~50% crit damage after buffs/crit resist) would give the approx the same damage as a current proc does with Malacath. So potential burst is no higher than current, but sustained proc damage would be lower due to not always critting.
2) If using Malacath for consitent damage, proc damage would be approx equal to the current non-Malacath proc damage.

This also has a few other effects:
1) It makes proc's more dependent on your stats, so they would be less effective on tanky builds. This could be somewhat mitigated by Malacath, but in that case you would be losing burst potential.
2) As they are now dependent on crit, they may actually become relevant in PvE.

The other benefit of this approach is that it works within already existing game mechanics, although a possible downside is that it means proc's may disproportionately favour some classes, being those with built in crit buffs. Although there is already a slight equivalent to this as proc's do benefit from penetration so they current favour classes with easier access to penetration or armour debuffs. There would also need to be a specific look at any proc's that currently don't work with Malacath (due to having a crit as their proc condition) or being non- damage effect (ie: heal), as these may be comparatively too powerful for burst under this system and need to be toned down slightly more.

You guys don't think this would still be problematic? The DOT damage would be tuned down somewhat, but you're still eating 2-3 of them in a CD.

You know I've actually played every other variation of magblade both stealth and dark cloak but never tried a melee magblade before. By the time I started playing ESO they were apparently long dead other than the handful of survivors trying to keep the dream alive.

Given the changes coming to light attacks I actually wouldn't mind considering it, it's just never something I've considered so I honestly wouldn't know where to start with making a build. I'll probably still give it a shot though, couldn't be worse than the first time I wandered into Cyro in my magblade lol

I also have a stamblade too that I've been "working on" for a few months, I think I made it all the way to lvl 20. Maybe I'll finally get around to finding it.

SRASinister wrote: »

@SRASinister I just finished up leveling my Magden and I like it quite a bit where it kind of has the same play style as my magblade somehow. I've noticed a lot of Magblade mains have switched to playing them like Danny. I don't know if you enjoy playing melee magblade, but a few of us Maglbade mains on xbox play our stamblade like a magblade with our bow pretty much acting as our resto when procing relentless. It just feels smoother and the damage is really easy to get while being tanky.

I am kind of excited for next patch only because of the small part in the patch notes that said that light and heavy attacks will scale with the highest stat for all weapons. I am getting excited since it means melee magblade could make a comeback though it might be hard without a burst heal.

Yep, I now use efficient purge were my green dragon blood was slotted due to hunter's venom. Allot of times I have to spam purge to remove it cause it seems to re-proc on me 2-3 times in under 15 seconds (AOE doesn't disappear usually due to lag so it re-procs you).

Also use it myself now since I can proc it on someone and they take it back to their group as they run away in panic yelling HELP! Then they all drop.

What I don't get is why some procs are crazy easy to activate, and others can be super difficult. But the easy to activate ones don't seem to be any weaker!

Maybe they should make purge more effective, but even as it is, it works pretty good against these meta sets. If people would just purge more I think the meta could shift away from them a bit.

pRocs aRe fiNE, we need more procs so my grandma can play this game and kill skilled players
just by smashing her head on the keyboard and its dont matter anymore now they don't even bother to fix the live game because of stadia its feels so dead playing in cyro

Gilvoth wrote: »

"in your opinion" is what should be included in the thread title, mainly because other people play this game not just the few in this thread and they have different opinions.

Ahem.

Nobody needs to include "in my opinion" since it is already assumed.

It doesn't need to be stated -- and that's not my opinion.