How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?

Grianasteri · October 2020

novemberhhh wrote: »

Players do that little dmg by just wearing random junk and being afk 90% of the time, and cant be bothered to put on any reasonable gear despite playing for hundreds if not thousands of hours apparantly. So of course the idea of using buffs, dots, and a spammable in any sort of pattern is way outside what they're willing to do.

But just for fun, heres a parse from my sorc with the left mouse button held down while i actually went afk...

If you pull less dps, congrats you just got outparsed by an inanimate object (my coffee mug handle, to be specific).

edit: typos

These kinds of gimmick parse posts are misleading

If you are a high CP player, with correctly allocated CP to buff you, wearing powerful meta sets, with optimised traits and enchants, correct mundas etc, yes you can achieve this kind of result. Ive done it myself out of interest.

But the average, casual player, the ones who are doing 5k, 10k, 15k dps etc, they often dont have anything like the additional buffs/power from CP you are benefitting from. Heavy attacks alone can be buffed by what, 25+% with CP? They are generally not wearing among the most powerful DPS sets in the game, like you are. They are wearing trash. Not to mention the traits and enchants that you will have optimised, not to mention the purple/gold gear you will be using... all things the average, casual player is unlikely to have anywhere near to the same standard or degree.

AyaDark · October 2020

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

You're doing random normals, what do you expect?

Lol. I tanked vDoM the other day and we had cp 600ish dps in group wearing ebon and s&b. I asked if he queued for wrong role by accident or something but no, he said survivability matters to him lol. Group dps was barely 20k but we managed to clear it after 2 hours. Dont ask why I stayed coz I dont know lol.

It's a brutal dungeon for low damage. Same with Falkreath and Moonhunter.

Stonewatchers, hulking werewolves and Minotaurs hit like a freaking truck.

Just standing there taking hit after hit while the team dent their way through.... It's not fun!

We do moonhunter HM with only 2 of us me and tank.

It is not about dps, tactics let you do it even without a lot of dps.

witchdoctor · October 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

They are generally not wearing among the most powerful DPS sets in the game, like you are.

You must have missed this:

novemberhhh wrote: »

yup and its not even difficult gear to acquire, just new moon (craftable) and mother's sorrow (overland), with slimecraw

None of that is particularly difficult to acquire. At all.

Grianasteri wrote: »

They are wearing trash. Not to mention the traits and enchants that you will have optimised, not to mention the purple/gold gear you will be using... all things the average, casual player is unlikely to have anywhere near to the same standard or degree.

Whilst it is obviously absurd to expect Nefas-tier DPS from the rando in your dungeon PUG, the basic information required to unlock a starter, passing, decent build is not difficult to acquire. A basic interest and a simple Google search will give a person somewhere to start.

LashanW · October 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

NoSoup wrote: »

You're doing random normals, what do you expect?

Lol. I tanked vDoM the other day and we had cp 600ish dps in group wearing ebon and s&b. I asked if he queued for wrong role by accident or something but no, he said survivability matters to him lol. Group dps was barely 20k but we managed to clear it after 2 hours. Dont ask why I stayed coz I dont know lol.

It's a brutal dungeon for low damage. Same with Falkreath and Moonhunter.

Stonewatchers, hulking werewolves and Minotaurs hit like a freaking truck.

Just standing there taking hit after hit while the team dent their way through.... It's not fun!

We do moonhunter HM with only 2 of us me and tank.

It is not about dps, tactics let you do it even without a lot of dps.

Moon Hunter HM is one of the few HMs where high dps is actually worse if not directed at the adds. Bad example from Grandchamp. All add spawns in Moon hunter HM are boss HP % based and very close together too, like once every 5-10% of boss HP you get add waves. So this HM is a lot easier if you pace your dps on the boss. vDoM HM is the opposite, faster you burn it down, easier it is. vFL hm execute is the same. Not having high dps is very deadly in those dungeons as dangerous mechanics are timer based there, not HP% based. And ofcourse mechanics need to be followed in dlc hm. No one is saying otherwise.

Grianasteri wrote: »

These kinds of gimmick parse posts are misleading

Yup. 15k penetration in a solo environment without using any debuff skills is absolutely irrelevant in group content. A standard DD build only needs like 6k penetration without using any resistance debuff skills for group content. Tanks and/or healers are responsible for the rest of 12k penetration to reach the cap.

novemberhhh · October 2020

Well since pvp cp and slimecraw are "cheese" to some heres more or less the same thing with actual pve cp.
17k this time (~+2k dps over the last)

Had to self ele drain as well since its early here and no one on the friends list is on, rip. So I didn't actually go afk this time.
Gear was still new moon (craftable/buyable), mother's sorrow (overland/buyable), and zaan since yes, healers should provide minor berserk

pve cp for those wondering:

and yes, a coffee cup could still hold down lmb as well as i could (but again, it's early so its still in use)

edit: To clarify, the point is that hitting practically zero dps is certainly a "put on actual dps gear, and dont be afk 98% of the time" issue.

Grianasteri · October 2020

witchdoctor wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

They are generally not wearing among the most powerful DPS sets in the game, like you are.

You must have missed this:

novemberhhh wrote: »

yup and its not even difficult gear to acquire, just new moon (craftable) and mother's sorrow (overland), with slimecraw

None of that is particularly difficult to acquire. At all.

Grianasteri wrote: »

They are wearing trash. Not to mention the traits and enchants that you will have optimised, not to mention the purple/gold gear you will be using... all things the average, casual player is unlikely to have anywhere near to the same standard or degree.

Whilst it is obviously absurd to expect Nefas-tier DPS from the rando in your dungeon PUG, the basic information required to unlock a starter, passing, decent build is not difficult to acquire. A basic interest and a simple Google search will give a person somewhere to start.

I would tend to agree that anyone wishing to engage with higher level content, dungeons, vet dungeons, trials, probably should invest a little time and effort into improving their game and their dps and probably should, on balance, be able to do average dps, 15k or something, + or -. But who am I to tell someone else how to enjoy a game they have bought and enjoy playing, its worth remember this principle.

However, as is often the case the reality and practicalities are being ignored. New Moon is a 9 trait craftable set. Hardly any players can craft 9 trait, certainly most average, casual players wont be able to. "Just get someone to craft it", comes back the cry... ok, now go get all the materials. The average, casual player, wont have those materials, or money to buy them, nor will many have the inclination to farm or spend time acquiring such - farming materials is quite boring to most. And a lot of folk of course arnt in guilds, or dont know about having others craft for them, or wont feel comfortable engaging in that way. There are multiple reasons that folk wont or cant access a 9 trait craftable meta set and pretending otherwise achieves nothing.

Turning to mothers sorrow, again the comments made by experienced, meta, end game players are so often removed from reality for the average, casual gamer. Suffice to say, a huge number of the players were talking about, wont even be aware of Mothers Sorrow or the importance of crit chance or damage etc and even if they do have a decent set on, it is unlikely to have correct enchants, never mind correct traits and its also unlikely to be purple or gold - all things which together can potentially, literally add thousands onto a dps parse.

I must highlight again, since it wasnt mentioned in the reply to me here, CP, purple/gold gear, enchants and traits etc, oh and mundas. When heavy attacks are the main source of damage (in the parse in question), and you have buffed them by 20 or 25% (just ball park figs from CP allocation), that is a massive amount of extra dps,. So that 15k parse drops by probably a couple of thousand, and we have not even considered, as I mentioned earlier, the rest of the CPs, purple/gold gear, enchants, traits, mundas etc.

It has been a fairly well established understanding that the average, casual player tends to manage about 15k dps, +or-, clearly there is variation and in this thread were particularly focused on those who are only doing like 5k, 10k etc. Now, players screaming, variously, "but its easy", "these sets are easy to get", "just google", "just learn to LA weave", etc... well sure but none of that changes the facts. I mean ANYONE could learn advanced maths and get a maths PHD, and for those maths professors advanced maths is soo easy... were all human and it just requires learning, time, dedication... but, the reality is most folk struggle with their times tables and actually dont like maths in the first place so yeah, practically speaking no, advanced maths is not easy and not everyone can do it.

This is a circular argument. Any player CAN do high dps, because the mechanics of the game allow it. But most dont, cant, wont, for a whole host of reasons, some of which have been discussed here.
.

novemberhhh · October 2020

dont make me go find my old julianos/willpower/grothdar...

Grianasteri · October 2020

novemberhhh wrote: »

Well since pvp cp and slimecraw are "cheese" to some heres more or less the same thing with actual pve cp.
17k this time (~+2k dps over the last)

Had to self ele drain as well since its early here and no one on the friends list is on, rip. So I didn't actually go afk this time.
Gear was still new moon (craftable), mother's sorrow (overland/buyable), and zaan since yes, healers should provide minor berserk

pve cp for those wondering:

and yes, a coffee cup could still hold down lmb as well as i could (but again, it's early so its still in use)

edit: To clarify, the point is that hitting practically zero dps is certainly a "put on actual dps gear, and dont be afk 98% of the time" issue.

Honestly, genuinly dont understand what you think you are proving with such parses. I think I have rebutted matters enough in my other comments. But, I mean, Zaan, a set completely and utterly out of reach for the vast majority of average, casual gamers, who are literally the folk were talking about here. Geez.

novemberhhh · October 2020

That doing ~1k dps quite literally has -nothing- to do with skill whatsoever, as no skills were used at all. Entry level gear that most of us farmed/bought/grinded the moment we hit 160 will pull several times this as long as you arent literally afk... its not that complicated.

zvavi · October 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

novemberhhh wrote: »

Well since pvp cp and slimecraw are "cheese" to some heres more or less the same thing with actual pve cp.
17k this time (~+2k dps over the last)

Had to self ele drain as well since its early here and no one on the friends list is on, rip. So I didn't actually go afk this time.
Gear was still new moon (craftable), mother's sorrow (overland/buyable), and zaan since yes, healers should provide minor berserk

pve cp for those wondering:

and yes, a coffee cup could still hold down lmb as well as i could (but again, it's early so its still in use)

edit: To clarify, the point is that hitting practically zero dps is certainly a "put on actual dps gear, and dont be afk 98% of the time" issue.

Honestly, genuinly dont understand what you think you are proving with such parses. I think I have rebutted matters enough in my other comments. But, I mean, Zaan, a set completely and utterly out of reach for the vast majority of average, casual gamers, who are literally the folk were talking about here. Geez.

Swap zaan out for maw and you will have higher dmg parse

zvavi · October 2020

Double post meh.

ForzaRammer · October 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

novemberhhh wrote: »

Players do that little dmg by just wearing random junk and being afk 90% of the time, and cant be bothered to put on any reasonable gear despite playing for hundreds if not thousands of hours apparantly. So of course the idea of using buffs, dots, and a spammable in any sort of pattern is way outside what they're willing to do.

But just for fun, heres a parse from my sorc with the left mouse button held down while i actually went afk...

If you pull less dps, congrats you just got outparsed by an inanimate object (my coffee mug handle, to be specific).

edit: typos

These kinds of gimmick parse posts are misleading

If you are a high CP player, with correctly allocated CP to buff you, wearing powerful meta sets, with optimised traits and enchants, correct mundas etc, yes you can achieve this kind of result. Ive done it myself out of interest.

But the average, casual player, the ones who are doing 5k, 10k, 15k dps etc, they often dont have anything like the additional buffs/power from CP you are benefitting from. Heavy attacks alone can be buffed by what, 25+% with CP? They are generally not wearing among the most powerful DPS sets in the game, like you are. They are wearing trash. Not to mention the traits and enchants that you will have optimised, not to mention the purple/gold gear you will be using... all things the average, casual player is unlikely to have anywhere near to the same standard or degree.

Not everyone can be average, some people have to be below average

AyaDark · October 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

novemberhhh wrote: »

Well since pvp cp and slimecraw are "cheese" to some heres more or less the same thing with actual pve cp.
17k this time (~+2k dps over the last)

Had to self ele drain as well since its early here and no one on the friends list is on, rip. So I didn't actually go afk this time.
Gear was still new moon (craftable), mother's sorrow (overland/buyable), and zaan since yes, healers should provide minor berserk

pve cp for those wondering:

and yes, a coffee cup could still hold down lmb as well as i could (but again, it's early so its still in use)

edit: To clarify, the point is that hitting practically zero dps is certainly a "put on actual dps gear, and dont be afk 98% of the time" issue.

Honestly, genuinly dont understand what you think you are proving with such parses. I think I have rebutted matters enough in my other comments. But, I mean, Zaan, a set completely and utterly out of reach for the vast majority of average, casual gamers, who are literally the folk were talking about here. Geez.

Why Zaan is out of reach ? Because they do not have dlc ? Or it is hard for them ?

As an example, i think it will not be hard to find some people to farm it for money.

When some one as example say that he looks 2 people for run some vet dlc and pay some money for it - it was very good deal.

And i think that there will be a lot of players who will be happy go there if you give them 50 k - 100 k per run, per character, 20-30 minutes 100 k is a good deal.
They give you all sets from there and will be very happy.

It is not as hard as people say.

josiahva · October 2020

@Grianasteri

I don't buy it. You say that casual players don't have the knowledge of what sets to look for(talking overland like Mother's Sorrow here) when you go into any zone chat in the game and there is a newbie asking about what sets to use to improve their DPS, these sets are brought up CONSTANTLY in front of the entire population of the game...everyone who ever bothers to read zone chat knows at least a few of the sets to look for and work towards acquiring.

You also say that casual players don't have enough money to have someone craft them a 9 trait set....that is also patently false...I am sure there are very few players too gold poor to afford a set of purple gear. ANY crafter will happily craft purple gear without mats if the mat cost is simply added in to the deal(god knows I have made enough purple sets for free with no mats). Say someone wants me to craft them NMA for 20k or whatever and they dont have mats....I just tell them, make it 25k(or whatever the current price of the needed mats are)....I don't think you would have much trouble finding someone to craft you a set of purple gear for 25k. Then there is the other aspect of this....these are 500CP players the OP is talking about...that means they have to have at least a few months playtime....chances are they have several hundred thousand gold on hand unless they have been spending it on houses or something.

The only real reason is that the players in question simply do not care enough to learn...and that is all well and good, play the game however you want, but if they DO play like that...well, maybe not all content is meant for them.

Grianasteri · October 2020

AyaDark wrote: »

Why Zaan is out of reach ? Because they do not have dlc ? Or it is hard for them ?

As an example, i think it will not be hard to find some people to farm it for money.

When some one as example say that he looks 2 people for run some vet dlc and pay some money for it - it was very good deal.

And i think that there will be a lot of players who will be happy go there if you give them 50 k - 100 k per run, per character, 20-30 minutes 100 k is a good deal.
They give you all sets from there and will be very happy.

It is not as hard as people say.

@AyaDark

Veteran Scalecaller remains a challenging vet DLC dungeon to complete, quite apart from the fact some people dont have the DLC, most pug groups literally cannot complete Vet Scalecaller - pretending otherwise would be abandoning reality.

Remember, were talking about average, casual, low to mid CP players.

If you remember that, then you will hopefully be able to see how silly it is to suggest such a player pays £50,000 to £100,000 cash for a run... most players can only dream of having that much cash laying around and certainly not enough to pay for multiple runs of a dungeon.

So I disagree with the notion that its not hard to get Zaan, when it unequivocally is, for the players were talking about. And of course, I have listed multiple different reasons that the parse in question is utterly pointless with respect to the salient discussion about low dps players.

novemberhhh · October 2020

You really havent pointed out anything tho? It literally shows that even a shoe can pull more dps in extremely common, certainly -not- meta, gear. Im sorry so many "players" like you have less ability than a random inanimate object to actually do the dps role you signed up for when queueing into group content.

LashanW · October 2020

novemberhhh wrote: »

Well since pvp cp and slimecraw are "cheese" to some heres more or less the same thing with actual pve cp.

Didn't say it was cheese. Just didn't see the point of such a parse.

novemberhhh wrote: »

Had to self ele drain as well since its early here and no one on the friends list is on, rip. So I didn't actually go afk this time.

Wait, so do you usually have someone else draining the dummy?

novemberhhh wrote: »

edit: To clarify, the point is that hitting practically zero dps is certainly a "put on actual dps gear, and dont be afk 98% of the time" issue.

Thank you very much! Now I get your point. I do agree that not attacking is why some people do extremely low dps. I watch DDs closely when I see super low group dps, some people don't attack the boss half of the time. They are just moving around and occasionally doing a light attack or two. Most just move around too much and have very mismatched weapons. Like 2 hander on 1 bar and the lightning staff on the other.

Also, here's an "afk parse" (holding down attack button and doing absolutely nothing else) from a stamplar,

Max CP (properly allocated for a stamplar in pve), best gear (Selene + Deadly + Perfected Relequen) all fully upgraded and with best traits. And yet it's 34% less dps than an "afk parse" done by a double pet sorc using easy to obtain gear...

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · October 2020

For any long time TES players (or any RPG with intuitive combat), ESO sets them up for failure. I have a lot of guildies that started playing ESO because of Skyrim, but combat in ESO..... makes me smh. Yah, it makes sense now (barely), but even I was confused in the beginning about why I was doing so little dmg (I invested in HP, AND magicka, AND stamina, like any sensible person would).

There's also still confusion about what constitutes DoT, Direct Dmg, etc. so even if you can read English, the tool tips aren't super informative and don't help you decide what to spend CP on. i.e. Endless Hail is considered DoT (and PLEASE correct me if Im wrong! lol), but...I would argue its direct dmg (individual arrows delivering dmg every second for the duration). A poison/bleed ability would unmistakably classify as a DoT, dealing X total dmg over X seconds, as opposed to arrows dealing individual dmg each hit. Its all very unintuitive.

Then there's gear... gear makes way too big of a difference imo, and I find it utter pish posh that gear determines so much dps, as opposed to solely defenses, but I get why... still don't' like it though. There's just too many things that are seemingly backwards, and unless you follow a build, or watch a video explaining things, you are going to be lost. Even knowing what does what, you will still be left to experiment with this or that to find what works for you.

I honestly hate the CP system as it is anyways, as well as resource scaling........ but hey, it is what it is, and at least these recent PTS changes look like they are taking a step in the right direction.

Also, add ons are not a solution, proper tutorials and tool tips are the only way to solve this problem. More UI options would help as well, so that players can actually learn and identify this stuff. So many players start this game and quit because, yes, its that confusing and backwards for most.

Kiralyn2000 · October 2020

I wonder why people keep expecting that an "average"/bad player will even have a monster set, let alone a good one.

Personally, I've only gotten Undaunted keys from the free leveling gift and a handful from holiday event loot crates. So I've gotten my hands on maybe half a dozen totally-random shoulders. Certainly don't have any helms.

But, then, like I said - I don't run dungeons. So I've not inflicted my sub-optimal play on anyone else.

(I did a handful of random normals, back during the Million Stories event, because they were dropping the Dark Shaman costume - which hadn't come back in any other way at the time. That experience was enough to make me sure I never want to run another. I wasn't the worst player in the groups, at least.

)

Casdha · October 2020

I was posting somewhere else and something just occurred to me,

Could this be the result of folks trying to do group dungeons in 1st person???

Grianasteri · October 2020

novemberhhh wrote: »

You really havent pointed out anything tho? It literally shows that even a shoe can pull more dps in extremely common, certainly -not- meta, gear. Im sorry so many "players" like you have less ability than a random inanimate object to actually do the dps role you signed up for when queueing into group content.

@novemberhhh

Is this directed at me?

My dps journey was difficult and frustrating, but I am certainly no longer one of the type of players under discussion here. I am an 810 player who has been playing ESO for over 5 years and has completed most end game content and my dps is way WAY above the dps under discussion here or even what is average dps for the player base. So take your attitude elsewhere ta.

If you cant or dont wish to read the multiple reasons I have suggested your pointless parse is just that, pointless, I cant help you.

It seems to me you do not like having it pointed out that you are wearing x3 end game meta sets, optimised with traits and enchants, using an appropriate mundas, with your gear likely purple/gold, and with 810 CP and attributes correctly allocated... all things which render your parse completely irrelevant to the type of players under discussion.
.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

I took all my gear off. My naked tank stood there heavy punching a target dummy and pulled about 1k. If there were three naked tanks standing there heavy punching, the group dps would be 3k....the equalvency of the poor circumstance I started this thread for.

SilverBride · October 2020

I think it would be helpful to have a training area similar to what WoW had. It required you to pass simulated situations before you could queue for more difficult content. You could still do the content with a group, but couldn't queue for a random until you passed it.

I don't think we should be locked behind these, but it would let you know what content you are able to run adequately, and when you are ready for harder content.

deleted221106-002999 · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

So I levelled a tank over the weekend. Several times, while doing my random normal dungeons, I'd get groups of 3 500+CP. These groups were pulling 5-8k dps as a group, with me doing about 40% as a tank. How is this even possible? I am asking because I only tank and heal and am 810+ and my friends range from 18k to 60k per person. How are ppl this high doing less dps then my lowbie tank? I just wonder how this is possible, as I'm not dps, but even if I do try, I can at least pull 18k without knowing what I'm doing. Bots maybe?

Possible whispered conversation between the other players:

dd#1: so, you guys just hit 50th, too huh?
dd#2: yeah, still got my level 10 training gear, crap skills slotted for xp boost. no cp allocated yet
heal: me, too; levelling skills/passives just queued and figured I''d get carried.

all together: lol, well looks like the tank has got this xD

Xologamer · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

So I levelled a tank over the weekend. Several times, while doing my random normal dungeons, I'd get groups of 3 500+CP. These groups were pulling 5-8k dps as a group, with me doing about 40% as a tank. How is this even possible? I am asking because I only tank and heal and am 810+ and my friends range from 18k to 60k per person. How are ppl this high doing less dps then my lowbie tank? I just wonder how this is possible, as I'm not dps, but even if I do try, I can at least pull 18k without knowing what I'm doing. Bots maybe?

u would be lucky if u find ANY competent dd below cp 810 (i found 2 in about 3000+ ingame hours)

ForeverJenn · October 2020

Souterain wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

So I levelled a tank over the weekend. Several times, while doing my random normal dungeons, I'd get groups of 3 500+CP. These groups were pulling 5-8k dps as a group, with me doing about 40% as a tank. How is this even possible? I am asking because I only tank and heal and am 810+ and my friends range from 18k to 60k per person. How are ppl this high doing less dps then my lowbie tank? I just wonder how this is possible, as I'm not dps, but even if I do try, I can at least pull 18k without knowing what I'm doing. Bots maybe?

Possible whispered conversation between the other players:

dd#1: so, you guys just hit 50th, too huh?
dd#2: yeah, still got my level 10 training gear, crap skills slotted for xp boost. no cp allocated yet
heal: me, too; levelling skills/passives just queued and figured I''d get carried.

all together: lol, well looks like the tank has got this xD

Possible. Out of three times this happened, I LEGITIMATELY asked, "why is the dps so low?" Only one ever responded, "OpPoSeD tO tHroWinG a TaNtRuM?!" Like, they got offended over a question. Which leads me to believe I'm not the first person to say something....

Altho....it happened again last night in WGT. They were doing about 6k dps, but luckily the dps were receptive to instructions and over doubled and we were able to get through eventually. The healer was clueless and heavy attacked the with their resto staff, never went to a back bar, never used a buff or any assist. Heavy resto and the occasional small heal. They were even attacking the invincible phase at last boss. They only said "Not English sry" lol

FangOfTheTwoMoons · October 2020

If a coffee cup is parsing higher than you, you need to do more research on how the game functions. I do not mean that in a bad way btw.

Higher parses reflect player skill, that's why they're used so much. Not every dummy *** is a good player tho but it's a safe assumption to say that if you can hit high on the dummy, you can hit high on a boss.

josiahva · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

I took all my gear off. My naked tank stood there heavy punching a target dummy and pulled about 1k. If there were three naked tanks standing there heavy punching, the group dps would be 3k....the equalvency of the poor circumstance I started this thread for.

Yesterday, I was completing the previous day's pledge as a tank(vet Darkshade 2). Since that dungeon utterly bores me, I swapped to my wannabe "sap tank" gear on my DK, which consists of Leeching Plate, Bahraha's Curse, and Zaan. On a full tank spec in heavy armor and tank CP allocation. I then queued up and proceeded into the dungeon as a tank...that particular setup yields somewhere between 14k and 18k DPS single target...but Darkshade 2 is all about mobs, which is why I enjoy a sap tank setup there...anyway I went in with a taunt on my bar and the rest of the front bar damage skills(no CC, no Chains, though backbar was resto staff and I used combat prayer and orbs for mild support). I then dived headfirst into the first mob and ended up doing 50% of group DPS...and actually for the entire dungeon my DPS didnt drop below 25%. As I was doing this, I noticed for the first few fights that the rest of the group was just hanging back and watching...or a couple of them were anyway. I am not sure why honestly, it could be the were just enjoying watching a tank try to do damage and keep the threats controlled at the same time without a CC(which can be done, but you have to grab aggro early through damage output). As performance of the tank role, I was mediocre at best not having a CC or pull slotted(I could have done so if I bothered using my backbar for that, I just didn't though the lack of a pull hurt for the last boss and if I do so again, will backbar chains).

Anyway, the point is that sometimes people will just stand around and watch, or not really try at all because they are watching Netflix at the same time, or any number of reasons. By the middle of the dungeon they were putting more effort in, and at the last boss fight my lack of chains caused at least one of them to die(the sphere's ricochet wave got him I think)...So the short version:

Who knows why your group were doing pitiful DPS? And who really cares? All you can do is build a tank that can put out some marginal DPS with a gear and skill swap for when you run into groups like that...sure, you might as well be soloing the dungeon, but at least you will be able to complete it.

deleted221106-002999 · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Possible. Out of three times this happened, I LEGITIMATELY asked, "why is the dps so low?" Only one ever responded, "OpPoSeD tO tHroWinG a TaNtRuM?!" Like, they got offended over a question. Which leads me to believe I'm not the first person to say something....

Altho....it happened again last night in WGT. They were doing about 6k dps, but luckily the dps were receptive to instructions and over doubled and we were able to get through eventually. The healer was clueless and heavy attacked the with their resto staff, never went to a back bar, never used a buff or any assist. Heavy resto and the occasional small heal. They were even attacking the invincible phase at last boss. They only said "Not English sry" lol

Possible conversations:

group/tank: why is dps so low?
group/dd#1: <remains silent>
group/dd#2: <remains silent>
group/heal: no english, sry

whisper dd#1: nice touch heal
whisper dd#2: maybe we should kick the tank; wasn't expecting a real one, maybe we can get a proper kiting 40k+ dps turkey-puncher?
whisper heal: nah, tank is doing 40% dps, we might end up with another wet noodle like us. anyway the salt could get entertaining

whisper together: lol

Joking aside, as others have mentioned there's a whole bunch of possibilities:

super-fast levelling doesn't give enough time to properly learn class, skills, attributes, cp etc in the absence of guild/experience player mentorship
overland content doesn't give enough diverse experience to learn above
wearing mismatched gear (but a GREAT outfit)
the game itself doesn't give much feedback about damage, buffs,debuffs, heals, you need add-ons/3rd party website access. players may think they're contributing (using diverse skills, pseudo-rotation, occasional LA weaves etc) but have no real data with which to make any kind of objective assessment in the absence of add-ons.
players like to have fun - for some that may be whacking away endlessly in a dungeon doing 2k dps. The damage is less important than feeling a sense of fun. And thingies die - eventually. Because you're awesome with your fire staff/2H, equal attribute point split combinations. Obviously.

etc.

edit:formatting

ForeverJenn · October 2020

@josiahva & a @Souterain - You both make reasonable explanations. These players are were moving and trying to hit mobs and bosses, just the low numbers seemed SO low I wasn't sure how it was possible. I asked this question because it didn't seem possible. I'm beginning to think that there's a small fraction of players that literally enter dungeons exclusively to find and open chests. They're all really good at doing that! Putting on the contents of said chests might be expecting too much. Lol

Edit: And yes, I know I could put on a destro staff and prob carry the group out. Maybe I've often done it on my healers with their lightning. It takes a certain amount of frustration for me to look at the fight report. And I hadn't noticed it until I did true tank dps.