MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Just run stonefist on DK, if you're brave enough.

Swomp23 wrote: »

So if I understand all of you correctly I’m not the only one with this problem? Because here on the forums, stam classes are super OP and dizzy just wrecks absolutely everything. My experience is that by the time my first dizzy lands (when it does), opposite magsorc has already peppered me to half health and when the 2nd dizzy would land, Ive eaten a frag in the face and their mages wrath has laid me flat ded.
P.S. this is not a nerf sorc thread. I’ve tried playing one, they’re good but not op. This is a thread asking for advices.

Swomp23 wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

Aside from bugs and lag, if you're swinging at a magsorc while they're bursting you down something is not right. I'd say it means you're seeing the curse come on you and you're not dodging fury, not dodging Clench when applicable, not dodging/blocking frags. Maybe the issue is less landing it and more the situation?

I hate to say it, but you’re absolutely right. My muscle memory is not there yet, so I’m constantly looking at my skill bar and can’t see what my opponent is doing. Even when I try, I don’t recognize half of the incoming skills anyway. For this part of the problem, I guess I have no choice but to keep practicing.
My question is: when I’ll be able to recognize incoming bursts and block/roll them, what do I do after? Because when I’m defensive, I put no pressure on them, so what prevents them from just keep bursting?
Also, you can dodge endless fury??? How?

Swomp23 wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

Aside from bugs and lag, if you're swinging at a magsorc while they're bursting you down something is not right. I'd say it means you're seeing the curse come on you and you're not dodging fury, not dodging Clench when applicable, not dodging/blocking frags. Maybe the issue is less landing it and more the situation?

I hate to say it, but you’re absolutely right. My muscle memory is not there yet, so I’m constantly looking at my skill bar and can’t see what my opponent is doing. Even when I try, I don’t recognize half of the incoming skills anyway. For this part of the problem, I guess I have no choice but to keep practicing.
My question is: when I’ll be able to recognize incoming bursts and block/roll them, what do I do after? Because when I’m defensive, I put no pressure on them, so what prevents them from just keep bursting?
Also, you can dodge endless fury??? How?

MincVinyl wrote: »

So dizzy no longer has 2 aim checks and conal checks like it did back in the old days. From someone who has played uppercut stamsorc since IC released the best ways to reliably use dizzy, even in lag, is to have not just speed but consistent speed. Issue is that currently snare/root immunities are so ungodly short that you will really only get 1-2 dizzy swings off before having to reimmune with Foward momentum. Personally I nolonger run a snare immunity since I am confident in my movement I can just suffer through being snared and rooted off cooldown because that is the state of movement since murkmire. Snow treaders can be a viable option, but you will still need either swift+steed or a majExp buff to compensate for not being able to sprint to line of sight escape.

Try NOT to use snares/roots in your build.....yes i know zos put a snare on dizzy. Zos is dumb and never played the skill. Swift+steed mundus will help you land more often for sure this is the best thing you can do to help yourself train your movement skills as a player. If you root/snare players, they are more likely to roll/sprint away from the location. When enemies roll a dizzy player has to block cancel and recast quickly to catch an enemy out of that roll, this is a much more advanced mechanic though so dont worry too much about it.

Build wise you can easily get major exp from an infused wd enchant bow backbar. Easy combo is to roll dodge >swap to bow during roll > Light > poison inject > swap to 2h > into dizzy/ult burst. Id say to practice this simple combo over and over. Steed mundus 10% is free to swap on and pts is making health recov worth more with new buffs. Swift is actually a good efficient trade, but will take away from your damage/sustain in builds (arguably being faster and hitting more dizzies means more damage, and being faster and avoiding damage/sprinting saves on sustain aswell)

Building heavy armor and being generally less susceptible to burst also allows you to feel more free to dizzy.(i'm not going to get into med vs heavy explaination, but medium is stats wise such a bad choice it really hasnt been remotely viable since protection jewelry trait got nerfed. Look at heavy sets like Seventh legion, truth, clever alch....and pair it with jewelry+2h of another damage set like briar/clever alch/truth/seventh/New moon/stuhn.......bloodspawn monster.......backbar weapon set infused wd bow or decisive master sword and shield. If you want to try snow treaders you will have your bloodspawn + snow treaders+ one of the above damage sets on each bar instead of having one constant. Ex clever alch backbar with briar on your damage bar, using heavy clever alch body to fill spots.

Swomp23 wrote: »

MincVinyl wrote: »

So dizzy no longer has 2 aim checks and conal checks like it did back in the old days. From someone who has played uppercut stamsorc since IC released the best ways to reliably use dizzy, even in lag, is to have not just speed but consistent speed. Issue is that currently snare/root immunities are so ungodly short that you will really only get 1-2 dizzy swings off before having to reimmune with Foward momentum. Personally I nolonger run a snare immunity since I am confident in my movement I can just suffer through being snared and rooted off cooldown because that is the state of movement since murkmire. Snow treaders can be a viable option, but you will still need either swift+steed or a majExp buff to compensate for not being able to sprint to line of sight escape.

Try NOT to use snares/roots in your build.....yes i know zos put a snare on dizzy. Zos is dumb and never played the skill. Swift+steed mundus will help you land more often for sure this is the best thing you can do to help yourself train your movement skills as a player. If you root/snare players, they are more likely to roll/sprint away from the location. When enemies roll a dizzy player has to block cancel and recast quickly to catch an enemy out of that roll, this is a much more advanced mechanic though so dont worry too much about it.

Build wise you can easily get major exp from an infused wd enchant bow backbar. Easy combo is to roll dodge >swap to bow during roll > Light > poison inject > swap to 2h > into dizzy/ult burst. Id say to practice this simple combo over and over. Steed mundus 10% is free to swap on and pts is making health recov worth more with new buffs. Swift is actually a good efficient trade, but will take away from your damage/sustain in builds (arguably being faster and hitting more dizzies means more damage, and being faster and avoiding damage/sprinting saves on sustain aswell)

Building heavy armor and being generally less susceptible to burst also allows you to feel more free to dizzy.(i'm not going to get into med vs heavy explaination, but medium is stats wise such a bad choice it really hasnt been remotely viable since protection jewelry trait got nerfed. Look at heavy sets like Seventh legion, truth, clever alch....and pair it with jewelry+2h of another damage set like briar/clever alch/truth/seventh/New moon/stuhn.......bloodspawn monster.......backbar weapon set infused wd bow or decisive master sword and shield. If you want to try snow treaders you will have your bloodspawn + snow treaders+ one of the above damage sets on each bar instead of having one constant. Ex clever alch backbar with briar on your damage bar, using heavy clever alch body to fill spots.

First off, thanks for this awesome post. Now, if dizzy doesn’t have 2 aim checks, how does it work. Because I’m sure that i already fired a dizzy and the animation just stopped when the player ran far enough. For the conal check, I guessed has changed when I hit an opponent in my back for the first time.

For the build, I run s&b back bar, so no M expedition on roll dodges. For my current skill level, I feel more confident with passive than active defense.
On the other hand, I am in medium armor for the 15% WD and shuffle, but I run Pariah to make up for it. NMA and Balorgh to complete the build on my stamcro. Pretty pleased with my tankiness in duels but in BGs I guess I need to improve my situational awareness.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

You need to be in range to land your dizzy swing. You do not need to be aiming at them once it's casted

Recapitated wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with having L2P problems, essentially growth as a pvper is fixing a series of those.

It's very, very, very important to know other classes. You need to know the standard combos and corresponding animations. You need to know the stamplar is POTLing you so you can block toppling. You need to know the sorc who just cursed you (very telegraphed!) is going to try to frag you in 3 seconds for the first explosion.

Arguably watching videos from players like MalcolM is even more beneficial for players who don't play magsorc than for magsorcs themselves because it tells you exactly what is going on in your opponent's head.

It's best if you also play the classes. If you have no experience with wardens, you might not know what the shalk animation looks like (the gesture they do towards the ground); you might not know what the circle on their feet is doing (although tbh I can barely discern it in chaotic fights); when the AOE pops after they turn 90 degrees you don't know whether the AOE will stay in the same direction or not. 30 minutes on a warden will clear that up for you.

For your bar setups, I try to keep them mostly the same across builds, in some abstract sense. Setting up Seventh Legion and DOTs on my stamdk is backbar 3-4-5, Vigor-Dizzy-Executioner is frontbar 3-4-5. When I'm going on the offensive, I proc seventh and apply DOTs, heal since I'll probably take damage while channeling Dizzy then executioner if things go as planned. 1-2 slots are rarely used — long buffs and utility go there.

On magsorc it's a similar story: proactively shielding/optionally healing before I attack is 3-4-5 on backbar, curse-spammable-clench is also 3-4-5, frags doesn't fit in that setup so it's 1. Bolt escape is 2 front, Boundless Storm is 2 back -- both are mobility skills so if I mess up when swapping bars at least I haven't made a huge mistake. Dark Conversion is 1 on backbar, because I'm unlikely to use it accidentally when I'm trying to frag (imagine trying to streak and instead you channel dark conversion, you probably die). Not to belabour the point but stamden has shalks/dizzy/executioner as 3-4-5 on the frontbar etc.

Use audio cues where possible so you don't have to look at your bar or buff timers. I use ActionDurationReminder's popup reminder for the sound alone, and I use the filters so it only targets one ability. If you use rally for instance you could set up the audio cue to remind you when the heal expires so you're not running around without your burst heal ready.

Recapitated wrote: »

Swomp23 wrote: »

Recapitated wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with having L2P problems, essentially growth as a pvper is fixing a series of those.

It's very, very, very important to know other classes. You need to know the standard combos and corresponding animations. You need to know the stamplar is POTLing you so you can block toppling. You need to know the sorc who just cursed you (very telegraphed!) is going to try to frag you in 3 seconds for the first explosion.

Arguably watching videos from players like MalcolM is even more beneficial for players who don't play magsorc than for magsorcs themselves because it tells you exactly what is going on in your opponent's head.

It's best if you also play the classes. If you have no experience with wardens, you might not know what the shalk animation looks like (the gesture they do towards the ground); you might not know what the circle on their feet is doing (although tbh I can barely discern it in chaotic fights); when the AOE pops after they turn 90 degrees you don't know whether the AOE will stay in the same direction or not. 30 minutes on a warden will clear that up for you.

For your bar setups, I try to keep them mostly the same across builds, in some abstract sense. Setting up Seventh Legion and DOTs on my stamdk is backbar 3-4-5, Vigor-Dizzy-Executioner is frontbar 3-4-5. When I'm going on the offensive, I proc seventh and apply DOTs, heal since I'll probably take damage while channeling Dizzy then executioner if things go as planned. 1-2 slots are rarely used — long buffs and utility go there.

On magsorc it's a similar story: proactively shielding/optionally healing before I attack is 3-4-5 on backbar, curse-spammable-clench is also 3-4-5, frags doesn't fit in that setup so it's 1. Bolt escape is 2 front, Boundless Storm is 2 back -- both are mobility skills so if I mess up when swapping bars at least I haven't made a huge mistake. Dark Conversion is 1 on backbar, because I'm unlikely to use it accidentally when I'm trying to frag (imagine trying to streak and instead you channel dark conversion, you probably die). Not to belabour the point but stamden has shalks/dizzy/executioner as 3-4-5 on the frontbar etc.

Use audio cues where possible so you don't have to look at your bar or buff timers. I use ActionDurationReminder's popup reminder for the sound alone, and I use the filters so it only targets one ability. If you use rally for instance you could set up the audio cue to remind you when the heal expires so you're not running around without your burst heal ready.

I’ve been watching a lot of YT videos lately, to try and learn other classes, but didn’t find any explaining the combos of every class. Even the build videos for specific classes, they rarely show basic combos in action. I went to see MalcolM but ye has a ton of videos. I’ll watch a lot of them, but do you know any video explaining and showing different combos and how to defend against them?

Thx for taking the time to write this novel btw.

Sure but I can't cover every spec.

Magsorcs: Usually they'll make sure to cast shields to protect themselves while they burst. They will curse you; the animation is very clear even if they cancel it because the purple glyph will show up in front of them. In 3 and 12 seconds the curse will explode. Then either a spammable or fury (I don't run an execute to have room for clench), then stun, then frags. Some sorcs will take advantage of the other curse explosion to burst you unaware in prolonged fights.

The stun can be clench or streak. The former is easily visible, easily dodged, easily blocked. By the time I see streak on my computer I'm already CC'd usually so don't expect that you'll block the CC; you should just know that it's coming. Break the CC ASAP and dodge because Curse will go off and they will try to land the frag at the same time. Magsorcs may also use meteor before streak because you'll be CC'd almost for sure when it hits you. It's good to notice if a sorc is using BOL (leaves a glowing sphere behind them) or streak; if they use BOL you don't have to worry about the Streak CC.

Stamplar combo starts with Power of the Light -- you'll see them raise their hand (same as sorc's fury, I think) and a spear with a tornado around it will slowly descend on your head for 6 seconds, at that point it'll hit for a % of the damage they did to you. Their goal is to pressure you as much as possible during that time and hope that you go boom after the time has elapsed. To do this, they're going to Toppling Charge to CC and probably ult right after, then jabs. They might have put some DOTs on you before too. If you block Toppling and blockcast some pressure on them while they try to combo you, you can turn their offense into a window of opportunity, especially if they don't quite see that they haven't stunned you and they're stuck in their jabs channel. Purge their snare and if you can afford fossilize, they're in trouble. Magplar DPS works in a similar way but is more likely to wear AOE proc sets these days.

Stamcro and stamden function similarly. Blastbones is easy to notice, expect to be defiled in 3 seconds. You should expect a stamden to have casted or be casting Shalks, always; they don't need a target, but if you're behind or to their side you'll avoid the AOE (20*7 meters iirc). If someone with icy armor and a netch is coming your way shalks will come out of wherever they're facing in 0-3 seconds and you'll have major fracture on you (this skill is going to change significantly next patch so read that). Know the animation for when they do cast Shalks though, they thrust their hand toward the ground and a blue circle starts to animate around their feet. In the meantime you'll be eating Dizzies and either an off-balance stun and/or a Dawnbreaker to ensure you don't block the burst, then executioner.

That leaves DKs and NBs plus stamsorcs and magdens.