How is DPS this low on CP 500+ toons?

LashanW · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

All i am asking is how ppl are doing 3k dps and not a lot of ppl are on topic ro my OP.

When you see such absurdly low dps, take a good hard look at what your DDs are doing. You'll see the possible reasons yourself.
I've seen DDs that are not really playing, they follow the group but they don't attack always. They just move around, trying to use a self heal/shield when some mob looks at them, some DDs retreat from the fight holding heavy attack button. Some even go afk in the middle of the fight (though it can be due to real life causes). I've also rarely seen a DD that basically teleport (experiencing a severe case of lag) so ofc their contribution to group dps would be next to nothing. I've also seen some DDs that spam 1 skill / light attacks for a few seconds and just stop, they just stop and stare at the enemy (maybe ran out of resources? I dunno). Some DDs are just dead most of the time.

If your DDs are alive and actually appear to be attacking the enemies, then the reasons are most of the time,

poor choice of skills (no aoe skills on trash fights etc)
mismatched / random / low quality / low level gear. (or even lack of some armor pieces, because of role play reasons? I dunno)
no buff food or potions
no buff skills whatsoever
highly irrelevant allocation of attribute points / CP

LashanW · October 2020

Raideen wrote: »

And because of this broken exploit/turned feature, I can not consume content I pay for, I am constantly ridiculed by elitist players, its turned much of what is fun in the game into an unfun chore. In fact I come and go in ESO because I get drawn in by a new expac or event, then get quickly reminded why I quit the last time, and its always the same tired issues.

Raideen wrote: »

I watched my Gf tonight at the target dummy try to get over 12k on multiple toons and it completely bummed her out because she uses textbook builds by alcast including gear (except for monster helms because vets intimidate her and rightfully so. WE both have been at the receiving end of some extreme elitism in this game). She is trying extremely hard to pull better numbers, and its just not happening.

Please try to find a good social guild, there are some out there with a few very experienced end game players. They would be more than happy to help you out with your dps issues. Don't bother with raid guilds as they would expect already experienced players. There are very helpful vet players in ESO community, most of them join at least 1 social guild. In the social guild I'm in, there's a few very experienced raiders and we always try to help the more casual / inexperienced (I don't use these words in an insulting manner) players get good at dps if they are interested in doing end game content.

Raideen wrote: »

The truth of the matter is that this game is not even remotely friendly to casuals or people who "build for fun". ZOS allows exploitive sets that do ridiculous DPS to be in game, then all the people like you chase these sets/builds and then mock anyone who does less than you, when in reality what you are accomplishing is more exploit/less skill.

This is one of the most casual friendly games I've ever played. But the end game content (vet dlc dungeons and vet trials) in this game are not friendly to casuals or for people who "build for fun". There your performance (survivability and dps) matters. But that is a fairly small portion of this game.
I don't know what the "exploitive sets" you mean. But if you are referring to meta trial sets, then using them is not an exploit (there are a few sets that can be considered exploits called pre-buff sets but only an extremely small percentage of raid groups use them to get high scores). Trial /arena sets are a lot harder to get than other sets, so ofc they have to perform better, otherwise what's the point? If all sets perform the same (including beginner sets you get in the first hour you play) then there is no sense of progression.

You might get discouraged from seeing vet players doing a lot more dps than you, but rest assured, what you are seeing is the end result of a lot of hard work and effort spent (like someone said earlier) and possibly a lot of time spent and grief farming the sets and practicing rotation, not someone who installed the game last week and now suddenly doing god tier dps. So try not insult them and console yourself thinking they are exploiting the game and not actually skilled. If these "elitist" players are being rude to you and toxic towards you for no other reason than you not performing as good as them, then those are just trash humans. Put them in ignore list and move on.

Once again I remind, please try to find a friendly social guild (not a pure roleplay / questing guild, but a guild with a mix of casual / new and vet players). The help you can get from friendly experienced guildies is invaluable.

SilverBride · October 2020

I only read part of this thread, but what I did read is the reason I don't do dungeons, even though I'd like to. I feel like I have 2 options: do good dps or have fun. I see no way I can do both.

The reason for this is that I find it way too stressful to do all the things required to "get gud". Farming for multiple sets, the right glyphs, the right food, using skills I don't find fun, learning rotations, and dealing with elitist attitudes. These things suck all the fun out of the game for me, and I play to have fun.

LashanW · October 2020

Also, for the people throwing around dps numbers, dps numbers are meaningless unless you mention what target it's on. The dps a player will do will vary significantly on a dungeon boss (a base game boss that stands still, or a dlc boss that includes a lot of mechanics / phases), a trial boss, a trash mob group, a basic target dummy, the raid dummy. All very different cases.

Atherakhia wrote: »

However, the single greatest contributor to a person's DPS is light attack weaving.

This is only true for mag dps, for stam dps LA weaving is not the highest dps contributor. For stam dps highest dps contributor is usually their spammable or a class specific semi spammable skill / execute skill. Even in a high dps mag DD raid dummy parse (90k+), light attacks would account for at most 25% of total dps. Getting good at LA weaving is necessary but only for reaching very high dps. A person not great at LA weaving can still achieve respectable dps (I'd say 60k+ on raid dummy, assuming these players have meta sets, proper CP (also high CP) allocation and a general sense of managing their rotation)

colossalvoids · October 2020

As an example i just started to get any knowledge about what the hell am i doing only at around 500cp if my memory serves me well. With how fast you can level up right now with all the events and daily rewards scrolls it's probably cp cap by now when one starting to notice what's going on around them. Not to exclude ones who just can't care less about their performance, seems like more than a half of population, sadly.

novemberhhh · October 2020

Well these cp500+ never played the game before 1t nerfed overland difficulty by removing leveled zones, and they've never had to "git gud" or die to even overland trash, let alone quest bosses. But since even even writs have certification quests, why zos cant implement a "vet difficulty" certification quest and allows these zero damage "dps" to queue for content that is far beyond their skill to actually complete is beyond me.

Grianasteri · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

So I levelled a tank over the weekend. Several times, while doing my random normal dungeons, I'd get groups of 3 500+CP. These groups were pulling 5-8k dps as a group, with me doing about 40% as a tank. How is this even possible? I am asking because I only tank and heal and am 810+ and my friends range from 18k to 60k per person. How are ppl this high doing less dps then my lowbie tank? I just wonder how this is possible, as I'm not dps, but even if I do try, I can at least pull 18k without knowing what I'm doing. Bots maybe?

Easy, CP is only ONE component of DPS. HIgh CP does not magically = high or even decent dps.

I know of 810 cp players, who when tested for the first time were doing about 12k dps. They had never heard of light attack weaving, or a rotation and were not running anything even close to meta. Their CP allocation was also all over the place anyway, and tons of it had not even been allocated. I also know of a CP300 player, who was basically in the same boat as above, but was not even running full sets, they didnt have a single full set on.

All of the above is absolutely fine, you can clear everything overland like that, and probably most normal dungeons no problem, especially in a reasonable group. You can have great fun.

So, when you think about it, its actually easy to see how an average, casual player, who plays for fun, even long term, just hasnt engaged with the things that increase dps.

Yeah but your example is of a guy that's doing twice as much dps as these group combined. That's why I'm so confused.

Ok fair point, on console we dont have ANY combat metrics or analytics in any way shape or form. If its really as low as 5k dps, from BOTH dps players, that is insanely low.

zvavi · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

I only read part of this thread, but what I did read is the reason I don't do dungeons, even though I'd like to. I feel like I have 2 options: do good dps or have fun. I see no way I can do both.

The reason for this is that I find it way too stressful to do all the things required to "get gud". Farming for multiple sets, the right glyphs, the right food, using skills I don't find fun, learning rotations, and dealing with elitist attitudes. These things suck all the fun out of the game for me, and I play to have fun.

The only things you actually need to do out of all the.things you mentioned is to learn rotations, and maybe use skills you don't find fun (this one is under question mark, since I don't know what skills you find fun)

Linaleah · October 2020

I'm looking at both submitted parses and .... all of yours "if you can call it rotation" is still STILL miles above what an average player would do. could do. you are using highly expensive foods and popping a potion (I saw that major intellect buff in there), casually to attack the dummy. I'm not 100% sure where ALL of those buffs are coming from but as uptime is 100% on minor buffs, its some kind of passive... and major buff uptimes are 95%.. that means you are freaking BEAST about making sure they stay up, which tells me that so called rotation is MUCH tighter then you think.

personal experience. I play Division 2 casually, with SO. we duo stuff and whenever you finish a mission, it gives you a mission report. my accuracy has never gone above 40% and even that is rare, typically my accuracy is 30% (as in how many times I hit targets vs missing them) this btw, includes my pets so to speak, as I tend to play skill (aka pet) builds due to my issues with personal accuracy and pets hit 100% of the time. so my personal accuracy is actualy lower. and its not that I'm not trying to hit my targets - i AM. I'm doing my darndest. I miss anyways.

why do I bring this up? because like Division - ESO does not have a sticky target. you know target you can select and now every ability will HIT that target even if you are not facing them perfectly. and before you say anything about hitboxes in ESO being pretty big... not that big. especially when you are moving. in ESO, I tend to overwhelmingly prefer AoE builds, because AoE alleviates at least some of the issues with missing my target (it does nothing for light attacks, but at least its SOME damage that is easier for me to land). but AoE is constantly getting nerfed.

if you stand in bad - you die or get hurt and its bad. if you move - targeting becomes harder. if the boss moves or mobs move - there go targeting issues again. when you are moving and/or adjusting in some way - your dps drops, because multitasking can be difficult, especially if you are not constantly practicing it. both your mind AND your fingers have to multitask and do it quickly.

just because its easier for you, doesn't mean its as easy or even close to being as easy for other people.

zvavi · October 2020

Linaleah wrote: »

I'm looking at both submitted parses and .... all of yours "if you can call it rotation" is still STILL miles above what an average player would do. could do. you are using highly expensive foods and popping a potion (I saw that major intellect buff in there), casually to attack the dummy. I'm not 100% sure where ALL of those buffs are coming from but as uptime is 100% on minor buffs, its some kind of passive... and major buff uptimes are 95%.. that means you are freaking BEAST about making sure they stay up, which tells me that so called rotation is MUCH tighter then you think.

personal experience. I play Division 2 casually, with SO. we duo stuff and whenever you finish a mission, it gives you a mission report. my accuracy has never gone above 40% and even that is rare, typically my accuracy is 30% (as in how many times I hit targets vs missing them) this btw, includes my pets so to speak, as I tend to play skill (aka pet) builds due to my issues with personal accuracy and pets hit 100% of the time. so my personal accuracy is actualy lower. and its not that I'm not trying to hit my targets - i AM. I'm doing my darndest. I miss anyways.

why do I bring this up? because like Division - ESO does not have a sticky target. you know target you can select and now every ability will HIT that target even if you are not facing them perfectly. and before you say anything about hitboxes in ESO being pretty big... not that big. especially when you are moving. in ESO, I tend to overwhelmingly prefer AoE builds, because AoE alleviates at least some of the issues with missing my target (it does nothing for light attacks, but at least its SOME damage that is easier for me to land). but AoE is constantly getting nerfed.

if you stand in bad - you die or get hurt and its bad. if you move - targeting becomes harder. if the boss moves or mobs move - there go targeting issues again. when you are moving and/or adjusting in some way - your dps drops, because multitasking can be difficult, especially if you are not constantly practicing it. both your mind AND your fingers have to multitask and do it quickly.

just because its easier for you, doesn't mean its as easy or even close to being as easy for other people.

I did mention using trash pots. The base magicka potions mob drop everywhere. And I mean it is easy with enough practice, I was refuting the guy saying that you need to use "cheats" (light attacks) to get semi proper dps, while using non vet gear. You are 100% correct that it comes with practice. My post was to prove that even without the best gear, food, rotation, light attacks, and potions, you can hit acceptable damage with practice. (I am pretty sure that corrupting bloody mara that I used gives less resources than the melon baked parmesan pork, so I could use less expensive better food, but I need to use the maras I stocked before they nerfed them)

redlink1979 · October 2020

Cp numbers don't mean anything: doesn't mean the player understands how to allocate the cp in a optimal distribution to the role played and/or even that the player does how to make a consistent parse.

One of the most awkward experiences I've had so far was in a random group where a damage dealer was over 1100cp (I know this due to the use of LUI extended addon) but, despite that, the player had one of the worst dps numbers I've seen so far in dungeons.

Linaleah · October 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

I'm looking at both submitted parses and .... all of yours "if you can call it rotation" is still STILL miles above what an average player would do. could do. you are using highly expensive foods and popping a potion (I saw that major intellect buff in there), casually to attack the dummy. I'm not 100% sure where ALL of those buffs are coming from but as uptime is 100% on minor buffs, its some kind of passive... and major buff uptimes are 95%.. that means you are freaking BEAST about making sure they stay up, which tells me that so called rotation is MUCH tighter then you think.

personal experience. I play Division 2 casually, with SO. we duo stuff and whenever you finish a mission, it gives you a mission report. my accuracy has never gone above 40% and even that is rare, typically my accuracy is 30% (as in how many times I hit targets vs missing them) this btw, includes my pets so to speak, as I tend to play skill (aka pet) builds due to my issues with personal accuracy and pets hit 100% of the time. so my personal accuracy is actualy lower. and its not that I'm not trying to hit my targets - i AM. I'm doing my darndest. I miss anyways.

why do I bring this up? because like Division - ESO does not have a sticky target. you know target you can select and now every ability will HIT that target even if you are not facing them perfectly. and before you say anything about hitboxes in ESO being pretty big... not that big. especially when you are moving. in ESO, I tend to overwhelmingly prefer AoE builds, because AoE alleviates at least some of the issues with missing my target (it does nothing for light attacks, but at least its SOME damage that is easier for me to land). but AoE is constantly getting nerfed.

if you stand in bad - you die or get hurt and its bad. if you move - targeting becomes harder. if the boss moves or mobs move - there go targeting issues again. when you are moving and/or adjusting in some way - your dps drops, because multitasking can be difficult, especially if you are not constantly practicing it. both your mind AND your fingers have to multitask and do it quickly.

just because its easier for you, doesn't mean its as easy or even close to being as easy for other people.

I did mention using trash pots. The base magicka potions mob drop everywhere. And I mean it is easy with enough practice, I was refuting the guy saying that you need to use "cheats" (light attacks) to get semi proper dps, while using non vet gear. You are 100% correct that it comes with practice. My post was to prove that even without the best gear, food, rotation, light attacks, and potions, you can hit acceptable damage with practice. (I am pretty sure that corrupting bloody mara that I used gives less resources than the melon baked parmesan pork, so I could use less expensive better food, but I need to use the maras I stocked before they nerfed them)

YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.

your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.

and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

LashanW wrote: »

ForeverJenn wrote: »

All i am asking is how ppl are doing 3k dps and not a lot of ppl are on topic ro my OP.

When you see such absurdly low dps, take a good hard look at what your DDs are doing.

Thank you being one of the few to understand my question. I did watch one recently it was a werewolf. Maybe just light attacking cause I really couldn't tell what it was doing.

Kiralyn2000 · October 2020

vgabor wrote: »

Get a metronome app (either onto your pc or your mobile, does not matter where, it's the sound only what you need) set it to 57-58 BPM (beat per minute, it's slightly below the the 1 sec cooldown interval which would be 60 BPM), and then just simply press light attack and skill when you hear the tick. (tick: la skill, tick: la skill, tick: la skill, ...)

Start with one simple spamable skill like force pulse, and just practice with that to get the rhythm. When you get the hang of it then add a dot like elemental blockade and practice with two skill (tick: la blockade, 8x tick: la forcepulse, tick: la blockade, 8x tick: forcepulse ...) Then move blockade to backbar and practice barswap too, just with these two skill, nothing more (tick: la blockade swap, 7x tick: la forcepulse, 1x tick: la forcepulse swap, tick: la blockade swap, ...) Then keep adding skills on back and frontbar one by one to build up your rotation, just practice each step until you feel comfortable with the number of skills you're using before adding another one.

Wow. That sounds.... horrible. Why would I ever want to play a game like that / play a game that requires that? There's nothing remotely fun or interesting or desirable about that kind of thing. Way to turn "playing a game" into a phenomenally tedious job.*

(which makes it good that I have no interest in "high level play" , if that is the kind of thing needed to succeed there.)

* and yes, I know - different people enjoy and value different things. I guess there must be some people out there who are in to that. Or have enough interest in "topping leaderboards"/etc to make the mind-numbing tediousness of perfecting game skills in that way, to be endurable.

SilverBride · October 2020

zvavi wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I only read part of this thread, but what I did read is the reason I don't do dungeons, even though I'd like to. I feel like I have 2 options: do good dps or have fun. I see no way I can do both.

The reason for this is that I find it way too stressful to do all the things required to "get gud". Farming for multiple sets, the right glyphs, the right food, using skills I don't find fun, learning rotations, and dealing with elitist attitudes. These things suck all the fun out of the game for me, and I play to have fun.

The only things you actually need to do out of all the.things you mentioned is to learn rotations, and maybe use skills you don't find fun (this one is under question mark, since I don't know what skills you find fun)

I do try to be a decent player. I look up builds, but some I follow more closely than others. I think the reason I veer so much from their suggestions is because the rotation explanation seems too complicated. When I read things like light attack weaving, etc., it's like a foreign language to me.

Then I've read that you need multiple sets, and a monster set, and you need to switch them out depending on the group you are with or the fight. I want dungeons to be part of my game, not to take up all my playtime preparing for them.

Araneae6537 · October 2020

I haven’t read all the replies since, but in response to OP’s post, not all of us parse or optimize our builds for max dps (my stamblade wears two sets to improve stealth, although I do try to remember to swap out a set for Hundings Rage when doing group content). I wouldn’t PUG trials or vet dungeons with my low-DPS, but most normal dungeons should be fine (I realize there are exceptions). It’s about having fun, not doing everything as fast and efficiently as possible. Normal dungeons are for everyone; if you’re a high level player looking to group with like caliber, you should queue for vet dungeons. Although not everyone there would meet your expectations, there it is reasonable to have them. I only PUG those with my optimized healer.
Also, another reason high CP may have lower DPS is they are a new level 50 and still working on leveling class lines and skills and optimizing everything.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

*Maybe my question isn't clear enough.* 5k TOTAL COMBINED GROUP DPS is next to NO DPS at all....that is what I'm not understanding.

Linaleah · October 2020

and to add, I'm going to bring up the game that shall not be named, but as its one of two MMO's that i'm currently actively playing - I kinda have to.

here is what I have to do to get acceptable dps in WoW. look up rotation. set up my bar so that I can follow that rotation. get some baseline gear, generally from running some dungeons as well as doing world quests - most of them are soloable, and with baseline starter gear you get from early lvl 50 activities - all but a handful are.

is my dps going to be anywhere near the top? no. for that a lot of gear optimization along with tightening of rotation/knowledge of mechanics is required. but... its STILL going to be acceptable for a very good chunk of end game content.

in ESO.. you are practicaly required to practice and practice a LOT and got help you if your innate skill ceiling is low, there is only so far the practice will get you because this game has NO give.

this is why this feels like 2 different games sometimes. overworld is balanced so that even people with low skill ceiling can get through it, but that makes it far too easy for end game folks. and end game is all but impossible for majority of the population, because its balanced for people who are willing to invest more time into practicing their rotations among other things, then most people are willing to spend on any one video game to just play it, let alone "git gud" at it.

Linaleah · October 2020

ForeverJenn wrote: »

*Maybe my question isn't clear enough.* 5k TOTAL COMBINED GROUP DPS is next to NO DPS at all....that is what I'm not understanding.

damage meters estimate damage for anyone other then yourself, UNLESS they are running the same damage meter as you are in which case, you can see actual damage, via addon communicating with itself.

2k dps is what I typicaly manage on a lowbie character who is still figuring out gear, leveling skill lines, etc. no, I'm not phoning it in or just light attacking, its all I can manage. at 50 - it bumps up to about 8k.

josiahva · October 2020

I tank...I am a pretty terrible DPS in general....but sometimes I try just to see. Last night, I equipped my tank with Leeching, Bahraha's curse, and Zaan. My "rotation" was limited to a single bar and consisted of Trap Beast(unmorphed) for the DOT(my weapon crit was 20% and weapon damage somewhere around 1700) followed by razor caltrops, light attack, noxious breath, light attack, venomous claws, and heroic slash. Ult was standard of might.(no CP changes, still specced for pure tank) I tried this out a couple different ways against Short Tusk world boss(decent test since you have to block sometimes and he will sometimes block your heavy attacks, messing up your sustain). I pulled anywhere between 13k and 15k damage. Obviously there is plenty of room for improvement in chosen sets and rotation skills...but this was purely casual testing.

The 2k DPS difference here represents a whopping 13.3% difference. The biggest difference in these tests is that I found doing more APM actually decreased my DPS...probably because of the more inefficient use of resources...but most new/inexperienced players won't see that...what they will see is that they are trying their best, trying to cram all these skills into a rotation they read about from Alcast or wherever. I suspect that a lot of people burn through their resources way too fast in doing this, they are refreshing their buffs/DOTs too early, trying to do everything they have been told and still failing. Its a matter of trying too hard. People complain about light attack spamming DPS...but honestly, your DPS isnt that bad if you just spam light attacks all the time with maybe a few skills thrown in....or at least not as bad as the DPS the OP mentions.

washbern · October 2020

I'll answer this one as I am one of these people. I am a trash player. I have almost never entered a dungeon and have spent most of my eso time doing overland content. I am at 650 cp and have moderate idea of what's going on. If I enter a dungeon, I see red and I run out of it because I don't know the mechanics, this greatly lowers my dps. I am almost done with my overland content and am looking to start joining groups. Here is the problem: I can't do random non-dlc dungeon. Its random or specific with a lot less reward. So I pick random, get into dragon bones dlc dungeon and spend most of my time on my back.

Being a veteran to mmo, I do try to watch videos but there are just so many dungeons out now that I can't watch them all.

Araneae6537 · October 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I only read part of this thread, but what I did read is the reason I don't do dungeons, even though I'd like to. I feel like I have 2 options: do good dps or have fun. I see no way I can do both.

The reason for this is that I find it way too stressful to do all the things required to "get gud". Farming for multiple sets, the right glyphs, the right food, using skills I don't find fun, learning rotations, and dealing with elitist attitudes. These things suck all the fun out of the game for me, and I play to have fun.

The only things you actually need to do out of all the.things you mentioned is to learn rotations, and maybe use skills you don't find fun (this one is under question mark, since I don't know what skills you find fun)

I do try to be a decent player. I look up builds, but some I follow more closely than others. I think the reason I veer so much from their suggestions is because the rotation explanation seems too complicated. When I read things like light attack weaving, etc., it's like a foreign language to me.

Then I've read that you need multiple sets, and a monster set, and you need to switch them out depending on the group you are with or the fight. I want dungeons to be part of my game, not to take up all my playtime preparing for them.

I hear you! The most I do is make sure all potentially useful abilities are leveled and carry a bunch of extra sets on my healer so that I can swap if there’s a difficulty (I do enjoy problem solving and worming with a group to overcome an challenge) or wear and cast as instructed, lol, when I join a group for a trial. For most of my characters though, I choose useful sets that fit the theme I want and don’t have obnoxious visuals (I loathe the floaty balls!!!). I could never get rotations down in any game and there are times when I tried and that’s when it started not being fun... The closest I get to “attack weaving” is panicked button mashing, lol! I think that’s part of why I gravitate to healer: I know there are buffs I need to regularly renew but the most I feel is responding to the situation, keeping my teammates alive and empowered to do their jobs.

Jpk0012 · October 2020

Because they don't want to put any effort into learning how to play their role. I think that is just the short and simple fact.

Why do people stand in clearly marked AOE? Why do people pull the boss before the tank? We all know the answer to this.

washbern · October 2020

Jpk0012 wrote: »

Because they don't want to put any effort into learning how to play their role. I think that is just the short and simple fact.

Why do people stand in clearly marked AOE? Why do people pull the boss before the tank? We all know the answer to this.

No, please don't put all these people in the same group. There are plenty of experienced players who lack patience and run off to pull half the dungeon despite the healer or tank telling the group that they are new.
There are a lot of players who try to get better but get booted from groups because their dps is low or because they failed a mechanic.
You can blame inexperience on the community as much as the player. If I would have been in the OPs group and he offered me advice I'd take it gladly. Unfortunately most groups don't do that. They either just disband or begin to tell you how much of their air you have wasted.

pelle412 · October 2020

This whole thread is just a big complaint that has no generic solution. There is nothing in ESO that teaches a player how to play their role well, besides a personal curiosity to discover it themselves. The situation has gotten progressively worse over the years I've played this game. I main a tank and I refuse to roll the dice with the dungeon finder. If I have 2 hours to play I won't spend all that time doing one dungeon. The only thing you can do these days to have a reasonable dungeon experience is to make friends and do dungeons with them.

DigitalHype · October 2020

Atherakhia wrote: »

There is absolutely NOTHING a player does while playing this game that teaches them what animation cancelling is or how to light attack weave. To the uninformed, they could easily assume the few times they do it by accident to be nothing but lag. However, the single greatest contributor to a person's DPS is light attack weaving. Light attack weaving nothing but their spammable and light attacks will yield you, conservatively, 20k DPS. Why do you think animation cancelling and light attack weaving is such a polarizing topic? It's unintuitive, inconsistent, and poorly implemented and yet players are expected to pick it up exclusively by word of mouth. Do something about light attack weaving and animation cancelling and you'd probably find inexperienced players are able to contribute more to a group.

Along those lines... LA/s can suffer greatly depending on your connection quality. Latency and especially high jitter can really wreak havoc on your numbers.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

washbern wrote: »

I'll answer this one as I am one of these people. I am a trash player. I have almost never entered a dungeon and have spent most of my eso time doing overland content. I am at 650 cp and have moderate idea of what's going on. If I enter a dungeon, I see red and I run out of it because I don't know the mechanics, this greatly lowers my dps. I am almost done with my overland content and am looking to start joining groups. Here is the problem: I can't do random non-dlc dungeon. Its random or specific with a lot less reward. So I pick random, get into dragon bones dlc dungeon and spend most of my time on my back.

Being a veteran to mmo, I do try to watch videos but there are just so many dungeons out now that I can't watch them all.

Thank you for explaining that. I am lead to believe that 3 ppl doing that exact same thing is just luck (or unluck) of the draw.

SilverBride · October 2020

Jpk0012 wrote: »

Because they don't want to put any effort into learning how to play their role.

I think it's more that many, like myself, don't want to put all their time and effort into it.

I also think it's overwhelming to a lot of players.

Regular dungeons should be tailored for your average player. Leave the vet dungeons for those who enjoy developing their characters for harder content.

ForeverJenn · October 2020

pelle412 wrote: »

This whole thread is just a big complaint that has no generic solution. There is nothing in ESO that teaches a player how to play their role well, besides a personal curiosity to discover it themselves. The situation has gotten progressively worse over the years I've played this game. I main a tank and I refuse to roll the dice with the dungeon finder. If I have 2 hours to play I won't spend all that time doing one dungeon. The only thing you can do these days to have a reasonable dungeon experience is to make friends and do dungeons with them.

Well, it was originally a question I had asking how 5k group dps is possible when ppl are above CP, seeing as I'm legit tanking and doing 40%. I feel like if AT LEAST one other person just stood there and light attacked, the entire time, you'd have got more than the remaining 3k dps. But most ppl responding are talking about 15k vs 30k dps. I'd have killed for someone doing 15k....but no. Its 5k between 3 high lvl ppl. It shouldn't take 15 mins to kill the last boss in NORMAL Spindleclutch 1 in a group of 500s. And forget DC2 with a group like that.

zvavi · October 2020

Linaleah wrote: »

YOU can. people like YOU can. which is also the point I was making all along. that its not the gear.

your rotation is better than you give yourself credit for, THAT is the point. when you are used to tight rotations, even when you are not trying, you are STILL going to do better then most.

and to reiterate, I'm not saying its impossible. its obviously possible. all I'm saying is that its only possible for SOME. NOT. for everyone. not even for most.

zvavi's guide to git good for casual players:
Step 1:
Start with practicing the timing. Get combat metrics, and spam slowly light attack+spammable at the low hp dummy. Slowly get faster, up till the point you kill the 300k hp dummy like it with spammables like that with more than 1 skill&light attack per 1.1 seconds. Take a break, go questing while trying to keep up that timing. questing is a valid way to practice. When you come back to the dummy and easily keep the pace and timing, you aren't ready for step 2.

Step2:
static heavy attack rotations.

My first static rotation was heavy attack sorc when i was CP 160, after some practice (at the time skill times etc were pretty short) it consisted of 6 skills, 5 light attacks, and 1 heavy. Lightning staff is really good to balance heavy attack rotation for 3 reasons,
1. It's timing when you weave it with skills goes well with skill cd, unlike the fire heavy attack that takes 2.9 seconds when you weave it with a skill.
2. It gets buffed 4 times by vMA staff and other heavy attack sets like UI ai etc etc etc
3. Lightning staff heavy attacks are just much more satisfying than fire and ice ones. Like seriously. Fire and ice feels slow and annoying, even if they are actually faster than lightning.

So if you are heading to the heavy attack rotation, I would consider lightning staff, the dots you like the most and heavy attack to your heart content

First you will have to chose a rotation. For beginners I would recommend a heavy attack rotation, for 3 reasons.
1. It is taxing to keep up light attacks and skills up when you are not used to it. The heavy attack gives you a small break every rotation, which is very welcome. Especially when you are getting used to mechanics as well.
2. It is much less resource heavy. You are not as prone to not being able to sustain because of bad healers.
3. It gets you used to the very important timing of DoTs, big mistake I see dds at lower levels is that they use their dots once, then burn all their resources on spammables. With 2/3 heavy attacks between reapplying dots you will never forget them.

After creating such a rotation for your favourite class (any sets will do really, good beginner sets for heavy attack rotation that I like are necropotence paired with mechanical acuity, but can't be done on any class, you could pair mechanical with julianos as well, any monster set thrown in.) Go practice it a tiny bit on a 3m hp dummy. After feel like you got it right go dungeon with it a bit, try to focus on using trash potions on cooldown)

Example for such rotations with only 6 skills used (destro ult when you feel like it):
Templar - la, wall, la, ritual of retribution, la mystic orb, barswap, lightning heavy attack, purifying light,
lightning heavy attack, luminous shards, lightning heavy attack, purifying light, barswap, rinse repeat.

Heavy attack weaving quick explanation:

if you use a skill at the second half of your heavy attack it makes you weave the skill in. It is a bit slower than heavy attacking without a skill, but faster than heavy attack+light attack+skill, lightning heavy weaving is perfect for rotations because it takes a very close time to 3 seconds

When your eyes start wandering around during the heavy attack, looking at your allies etc, it is time for step 3.

Step 3:
Static non heavy attack rotation.
At this point you are ready to create your first vet trial build. Weaving in a rotation with many skills easy enough for you to get bored during the heavy attack breaks. You are ready for the trial dummy.
The major difference between trials and dungeons is the amount of support you get from your supports, so you will have a lot more resources coming at you in a trial.
Get yourself sustain food (max resource+resource regeneration) to stimulate trial environment on the trial dummy, and practice your newly made rotation. It will take long, so get an evening ready for it. When you feel comfortable with the rotation, join your social guild in some vet trial runs to test it out.

During this phase I would recommend also changing your dungeon build, adding a spammable on front bar, and alternating between more spammables and more heavy attacks depending on the amount of support you are getting from the healers,
remember, 1 heavy + skill replaces 3(light attack + skill)

Step 4:
When you gain more experience, you can graduate from static rotations, and move on to dynamic ones, but that's not the point of this guide.

This was written inspired by my own journey.