Cross healing maybe be one of several contributoring factors to lag in Cyrodiil.

Crash427 · October 2020

Did you get a free sub for this post?

Thevampirenight · October 2020

Crash427 wrote: »

Did you get a free sub for this post?

Nah I made this post on my own, besides I saw the threads and how its improved. With this test and that is the reason why I made this thread.
Hmm thinking of subs makes me think of Subway.

The thing is I want to see Zenimax use what is working and actually add that in and then address all the other stuff that needs to be addressed, update the servers do whatever it takes. Actually fix the performance so I don't see whine threads about how bad it is every time I see the forums and see complaining from streamers or other players about how bad it is because its gotten bad enough. Which by the way is what is happening pretty much.
Having people whine about how they can't heal players solo is better then performance is getting worse.
Might as well add in a solution that helps.

What they should do from these tests is put a 3 second cooldown on all purge effects, add in this group limit and healing change.
It would reduces purge spam which causes performance issues, it reduces cross healing which hurts performance and it would help. It wouldn't fix everything but it would help.

Crash427 · October 2020

Purge spam is a result of dot/snare spam. Or is DOT/snare spam a result of purge spam? Its a bit chicken or egg but doing away with purge will empower the group with numbers on their side even more. Then people come to the forums and complain about zergs and we get one of those threads again.

WildRaptorX · October 2020

No, I'd rather the game be overburdened and laggy then have this test go live even if it kills the game and destroys it with overburdening calculations.

Then how come I lag, can’t fire weapons and freeze when I’m no where near enemy players or keeps?

Cinbri · October 2020

Lag just as hard as it was, because this change didnt addressed main reason of lags - ballgroups that totally unaffected.
Maybe next week test will help with perfomance atleast. Tho they should have include nocrosshealing rule into next test too.

maxjapank · October 2020

Wouldn't aoe dmg abilities involve more calculations than cross healing?

ne.ga.kurai_ESO · October 2020

Crash427 wrote: »

Purge spam is a result of dot/snare spam. Or is DOT/snare spam a result of purge spam? Its a bit chicken or egg but doing away with purge will empower the group with numbers on their side even more. Then people come to the forums and complain about zergs and we get one of those threads again.

- nerf proc sets
- Add actually functioning CC immunity for hard & soft CCs

Lag fixed!?

dsalter · October 2020

Other.

floor healing needs to be able to heal outside groups (things like regen, breath of life, etc can stay group only) as things like springs and such follow the same sort of rule ground damage AoE which shouldnt give lag.
then we just need to double ranged floor/target aoE and we can start busting up tight blobs and spread out fights and FINALLY start going back to old school cyrodiil performance.

Xuhora · October 2020

No, I'd rather the game be overburdened and laggy then have this test go live even if it kills the game and destroys it with overburdening calculations.

thanks for this super imformative non biased poll @Thevampirenight

please do me a favour, go make yourself a healer, hop on to cyro with it, play an evening and report back to me how absolutly useless you felt during your evening.
because that is my experience, and yes, i rather play with a buggy hell where at least i can participate in fights, than watching people die left and right while trying to keep track of where my actual group is....
in my opinion this test destroys e whole role in cyrodil. not just a class or two, no, the whole role.

edit

oh and by the way: at least of PC EU, the performance is even worse than it has been the past couple weeks, since it now just double the ammount of ballgroups stacked on each other

scottii · October 2020

Other.

Chose other because the below is the solution, i posted here.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/548479/cyrodiil-12-member-group-limit-heals-only-work-on-members-of-the-same-group-as-healer#latest

"Not sure if that can save it. If what happens over the past weekend, happens during an AOE test, the future seems pretty grim.

What ZOS, or should we say MS, should do is monetize PVP. Sell PVP zones or something to create sustainability. It's not exactly rocket science, and I'm not sure why ZOS hasn't done this over the many years Cyrodiil has been out.

Even more than that, remove Cyrodiil as a whole, and create mini-zones (like ICP), because there probably less than 30% of all Cyrodiil is being used at a given time and it's probably the largest map in the entire game."

novemberhhh · October 2020

Yes

best server performance ive seen in like 5 yrs
pc na / main cp camp (gray host)
can we keep it plz?

kajanzaru · October 2020

Yes

I'm actually surprised that somebody really watches Fengrush's (often more than) 1 hour long video(s) where he's only talking

BraidasNM · October 2020

Other.

Nah, lag is still trash

ExistingRug61 · October 2020

Other.

Personally, I am fundamentally opposed to making healing be group only.

This is because it results in skills becoming either more or less effective depending on whether or not you are in a group, which I don’t believe should be the case. Such a feature would serve as a disadvantage to new and/or solo players who are less likely to be in organized groups but may still want to be able to assist allied players when they are in the same area. Rather it only serves to give advantage to organized groups, which seems counter productive if it is in fact such organized ball groups that contribute to lag.

My preferred method of approaching this issue, if it is to be addressed with coding fixes and skill changes rather than improved hardware capacity, would be instead to determine which individual or types of skills are the biggest contributors and redesign them in such a way to make them less process intensive or simpler. In the case of healing abilities, this may involve things like reducing the number of AoE heals, changing some smart heals to targeted or self heals, or changing some hots to burst heals. It would all depend on what parts of the abilities are actually the process intensive components (ie: is it the target selection, "smart heal" check, or the actual effect application, or a combination of some of these?), which would need to be identified first via more specific testing than we have actually had so far. I realise these sort of changes would potentially make the job of healers more difficult, but at the same time this would result in capable healers being valued higher as there would be less ancillary heals from non healers.

Starlight_Whisper · October 2020

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Can the OP explain why things worked so much better from 2014 to 2018 with cross healing and population caps at least double what they are now?

I'm pretty sure they just need to put the game back onto servers that can support it.

Same reason as deer in cydrolli was the problem. Need a scapegoat.

Also Fengrush of all people is worst to get advice from.

BomblePants · October 2020

The way the combat system was designed was genius.... all the cross effects, synergies and the class skills all working together... totally why I fell in love with the game. I guess it’s a little hard to get people to really want to change some of the fundamental ways they play now.... especially as this seems to be an MMO some people like to play solo....

zaria · October 2020

maxjapank wrote: »

Wouldn't aoe dmg abilities involve more calculations than cross healing?

AoE ground based ability should be more costly than cross healing unless coding for it is bad who it might be.
First you need to make an list of players in range, then you need to apply heal to the one most hurt and add the heal to them.
You have to repeat this as other healer is at other location and people has been healed already.

Now an ground based AoE ability has to be created as an object who apply the effect every second for the duration of the effect, say healing spring or arrow barrage each tick until effect times out.

Last class of AoE are instant ones, say combat prayer or arrow spray, calculated once but the buff from combat prayer and the DoT from arrow spray are added to targets just as single target effects after the initial cast.

BigBragg · October 2020

scottii wrote: »

Chose other because the below is the solution, i posted here.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/548479/cyrodiil-12-member-group-limit-heals-only-work-on-members-of-the-same-group-as-healer#latest

"Not sure if that can save it. If what happens over the past weekend, happens during an AOE test, the future seems pretty grim.

What ZOS, or should we say MS, should do is monetize PVP. Sell PVP zones or something to create sustainability. It's not exactly rocket science, and I'm not sure why ZOS hasn't done this over the many years Cyrodiil has been out.

Even more than that, remove Cyrodiil as a whole, and create mini-zones (like ICP), because there probably less than 30% of all Cyrodiil is being used at a given time and it's probably the largest map in the entire game."

Have you seen all the mounts and other cosmetic items that flood Cyrodiil? The players that enjoy it spend money in the game.

Trying to break up the zone to sell it back to players is a terrible idea.

Locking any PvP behind a paywall is also a bad idea. In the end PvP needs more population, not any hindrances to getting people in there. Hence BGs and IC being moved to base game.

fastolfv_ESO · October 2020

crashed 3 times tonight and i never crash, so yeah cyros not doing better its going down the crapper and not one test has so far improved performance, its been one huge placebo effect on people who want to blame grouping for lag. If your game lags from grouping your game needs to be remade

MasterSpatula · October 2020

Biased polls where the answers are nothing but insults to anyone who disagrees with the OP are a massive cliché on the ESO forums, and yet you've somehow managed to take it to a whole new level here.

Brrrofski · October 2020

Keylun wrote: »

Then how come I lag, can’t fire weapons and freeze when I’m no where near enemy players or keeps?

It's because there's a big fight somewhere else on the map.

When it's zerg Vs zerg at a keep, it'll lag you, no matter where you are. That's how bad the servers are.

x48rph · October 2020

No, I'd rather the game be overburdened and laggy then have this test go live even if it kills the game and destroys it with overburdening calculations.

If your going to make a poll give unbiased answer options. Picking no just because it's so biased

badmojo · October 2020

I honestly feel like they are going the wrong direction with this test. The goal should be to make the game work smoothly with no groups. If server performance is reliant on players being in groups its only going to be a temporary fix and performance will end up worse in the end when players adapt to the situation and create groups. If heals are the issue because of many targets, then address that issue directly. Put a cap on targets, make HOTs not stack, make the heals less smart. There are options that dont relying on discourage casuals to use heals. Because what do you think happens when the casual healers get replaced by more ball groups?

idk · October 2020

Other.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Can the OP explain why things worked so much better from 2014 to 2018 with cross healing and population caps at least double what they are now?

I'm pretty sure they just need to put the game back onto servers that can support it.

The problem is the game is growing more players are playing it and we just have two mega servers for each platform.

It is irrelevant to Cyrodiil that the number of players is growing as Cyrodiil has a hard cap on the number of players that can be in a campaign at any given time. In fact, that player cap is significantly smaller than it was over six years ago.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

EdmondDontes wrote: »

Can the OP explain why things worked so much better from 2014 to 2018 with cross healing and population caps at least double what they are now?

I'm pretty sure they just need to put the game back onto servers that can support it.

They moved so many calculations to server side to remove cheating and I'm guessing as well to add Stadia in. So the servers are doing all the combat calculations and not the client. lag has been a problem its just its gotten a lot worse over time.

Yet you are blaming heals as the main contributor as that is your focus on this thread yet you point out the real facts that Zos has made changes to the game which are the main drivers for the performance decline. Curious.

redlink1979 · October 2020

Other.

I think we need to end the test season before jumping into any conclusions/solutions.

TwinLamps · October 2020

Other.

When I see such options I must vote other.

Moonsorrow · October 2020

Other.

Badly made poll with biased opinions from the poll maker.

Thus voted Other.

Try making voting options without your own opinions in them the next time.

Donny_Vito · October 2020

ManCrush

Edit: In all actuality, I am watching the tests on PC as I'm sure consoles will get all these nice changes in the end. But I cannot really vote at the moment, just snarky comments.

rpa · October 2020

Other.

I think the solution is to slightly simplify combat system. My modest proposal:
Player shall have Health pool and skills Attack and Heal sharing a cooldown. Attack damages the nearest nemy. Heal heals player and the nearest ally half of damage of one attack. Because cooldown, no resource calculations needed other than Health of each player. Players may also walk around, but not too fast, to keep cost of computing the nearest ally and enemy down. With this simplified system, inexpensive computer can handle battle of thousands of players slowly walking around spamming Attack and Heal.

NeillMcAttack · October 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I think it's too early to tell and pc EU is still really bad, though instantly better when ball groups log off... It should definetly be part of the overall solution, but I still think we need a full skill audit and make as many single target as possible.

Please reduce the effectiveness of proc set stacking as well, its not fun at all...

Almost the entire map was at Allessia last night, groups and all and performance, considering the amount of action, was a massive improvement.

This was Ravenwatch, what campaign were you in?