Real tanks! Why don't you use Dungeon Finder for pledges?

Varana · September 2020

They logged the run (or part of it) with Esologs. It's a screenshot from the website where you can analyse your group's performance.
https://www.esologs.com/
There are public runs logged, have a look.

BigBragg · October 2020

All of the above

After running a handful or more PUGs as a tank every day for the last two weeks, it really is al of these things. Anywhere from people simply not knowing and not willing to learn to the intentional tomfoolery, it has been an interesting perspective. Decent groups are the exception not the norm. And I mean this on the most basic fundamentals level, nothing fancy.

bholbrook81 · October 2020

Super Low DPS in vet content (esp DLCs)

I pretty much exclusively use group finder for dungeons. Doing 30-40runs a week on average. The only thing that actually bothers me is when you get some idiot dps on a Mic talking smack about me not holding aggro meanwhile he and his dps partner are standing stationary weaving in heavy attacks with frost staves.

Husan · October 2020

Super Low DPS in vet content (esp DLCs)

The answer is super low DPS. The other things all combined together I would say amount for less than 5% of cases.

Having more DPS usually forces you to do less mechanics on every boss and sometimes you can even skip them completely. This means that you not only finish dungeons faster, but also die less. Overall, raw DPS is the most important part of an enjoyable run. The only difference between an average tank and a very good tank is how well they can position the mobs for the DDs to burst them down. But how fast the mobs die is still up to the DDs.

PrimusNephilim · October 2020

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Why don't you use Dungeon Finder for pledges?

I do all the time, its a rare thing for a dungeon run to go totally south. I'm in it for the crystals and keys, keep focus on that and not the idiots running around like chickens with their heads cut off and you'll be fine. I enjoy tanking because I control the fights, can't stand a Boss running around chasing players.

as a side note: when a tank turns the Boss around, facing it away from the group, don't run up next to the tank facing the Boss to do your DPS, there's a reason why I'm turning him around (◔_◔)

The bigger issue here, is the system itself, its jacked up and needs some tuning up

BejaProphet · October 2020

Interesting poll. As of this post 90% say that poor DPS is either the problem or part of the problem.

I wonder if you should have made an option to say they do use the group finder.

gatekeeper13 · October 2020

All of the above

This is why I dont use dungeon finder.

From the last boss in vEH1 while farming for the lead. I was tanking.

Grianasteri · October 2020

All of the above

Yeah not all at once or all the time even. But some of those things for sure have made tanking pugs frustrating.

But I still had no qualms about doing it, back during my tanking phase. I found it really rewarding and enjoyable to help less experienced and/or low lever CP players through dungeons.

Reverb · October 2020

Super Low DPS in vet content (esp DLCs)

I have 2 tanks (and 2 healers). If I’m doing a dungeon these days it’s going to be for vet HM pledges. My experience with the pugfinder over the years is that I only have a 30% chance of getting a group with good enough dps to clear the dungeon. Why would I put myself through that when I can go with guildies instead?

josiahva · October 2020

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

This is why I dont use dungeon finder.

From the last boss in vEH1 while farming for the lead. I was tanking.

This is a misleading screenshot and implies that you were doing almost as much damage as the DPS. I guess that is technically true, but knowing that fight, I am willing to be this only happened because the DPS and/or heals were lying dead on the floor most of the fight because pugs evidently don't know how and when to block.

CrashTest · October 2020

All of the above

BigBragg wrote: »

After running a handful or more PUGs as a tank every day for the last two weeks, it really is al of these things. Anywhere from people simply not knowing and not willing to learn to the intentional tomfoolery, it has been an interesting perspective. Decent groups are the exception not the norm. And I mean this on the most basic fundamentals level, nothing fancy.

Been doing the same thing and this has been my experience as well.

The thing that I don't get are players who don't want to learn mechs but rage quit after causing repeated wipes. I know their queue times are ~45 minutes minimum, yet they'd rather go back into queue for another long wait than learn mechs.

idk · October 2020

All of the above

To many unskilled players in the GF. I used to queue solo on my tanks to help the GF but bad dps and Players that are oblivious to mechanics that are telegraphed gets old.

Heck, I even saw a melee dps, high CP, that said he did not have an interupt.

It’s much nicer running with guild mates which leads to fast and smooth runs.

Synnastix · October 2020

I use it for normals because I can usually carry a bad group. I don’t do vet period because who needs that, right Jerry?

VaranisArano · October 2020

I will put up with tanking for low DPS DDs through a grueling mechanics-intensive vet boss fight when its my IRL friends in voice chat laughing with (and at) me. That's fun.

Not so much with randoms. Not fun at all.

Normal dungeons, meh, the worst I get is someone yelling "Tank, get it off me" when its a centurion in red phase. Believe me, I would if I could, buddy.

Inaya1 · October 2020

Super Low DPS in vet content (esp DLCs)

Hahahahah, the whole point of the problem is finally starting to reach someone. I play all roles, tanking is one of my favorites.

I do not need a healer in any dungeon, I survive without outside help, in addition, I wear sets, picking them up for DD in order to accelerate the damage to huge numbers. I have closed absolutely all content, even trials with 3-stat achievements.

I've been going underground since 2016. Randomized dungeons. It used to be better with ppl x)

The thing is that people do not want to think with their heads at all. Why do damage if you can stand in AOE and ask the healer to heal you? Healers have always healed tanks, and only them. If dd dies while standing in a HUGE AOE in an empty field and cannot move away, this is his problem. But this is half of the whole trouble (ignore mechanic). The other half of the problem is DPS. People don't want to think and wear absolute "white" crap or sets that do not fit their role at all.

It is soooooo difficult to understand that the weapon SHOULD be upgraded to gold and jewelry should be enchanted on wpd / spd, put on a monster set and put on medium armor from trial or dungeons (Dot, AOE or sets buffing your damage) if you are on stamina or light armor if you are on magician? The second set goes through jewelry and weapons - just pick up something that deals magic damage, increases crits, etc. IS THIS DIFFICULT ?!

YOU CAN PLAY ON THE ARCHER WITH 50K DPS, YOU CAN PLAY WITH THE SWORD SHIELD ON STAMINA AND GIVE ~ 45K DPS, YOU CAN TAKE DW + DW AND GIVE 50K DPS, YOU CAN PLAY THE MAGE WITH RESTRO AND GIVE TAKE 50K DPS OR THE DPS HEALER AND TANK WITH 25k+ DPS. JUST NEEDS THINKING AND TESTING IT!

Oh yeah, by the way. Sorry, sorry, sorry for my ass explosion, this is very toxic in part, but it's true.

If I see a person who is trying to do something and at least somehow prepared for the content he is going to go to, I always see it and try to help. For example, I'll ask in the chat: do you need explain mechanics? Do you need help with rotation? You need suggest best skill set for this boss? If they silent, I leave the group. Sad statistic - I got out of 90% of the groups in vet dungeon search because people were just silent and didn't say anything

gatekeeper13 · October 2020

All of the above

josiahva wrote: »

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

This is why I dont use dungeon finder.

From the last boss in vEH1 while farming for the lead. I was tanking.

This is a misleading screenshot and implies that you were doing almost as much damage as the DPS. I guess that is technically true, but knowing that fight, I am willing to be this only happened because the DPS and/or heals were lying dead on the floor most of the fight because pugs evidently don't know how and when to block.

No, they were not dead. It was just super low dps.

Inaya1 · October 2020

Super Low DPS in vet content (esp DLCs)

I will add: I would like Zos to think about creating a player's rating as on a bg, only visible, so that people try to improve their position as dd. And would have done a combat-helper right in the game (as NPC near you i think) for beginners who will actively prompt for a limited time in the game what and how you need to play "correctly".

idk · October 2020

All of the above

I queued for Vet Spindleclutch II, which is a pretty easy dungeon as it is one of the original vet dungeons. I wanted to see what it was like with a full GF group doing such an easy dungeon.

The mechanics of the final boss are pretty straight forward with no one-shots. Every player but myself died to the AoE circle the boss puts under a random player and each time they died to the circle they did not move at all. Two players died multiple times showing they were as slow to figure things out as they were to move. The healer stood in the AoE while trying to rez a DPS that died to the previous AoE and failed to get the rez off before dying themselves for the second time. At one point I was the only one alive.

It was funny watching this unfold. The thread asked why do tanks not use GF and it is due to experiences like this.

MincVinyl · October 2020

See tanks do use group finder for pledges, then they log on to their dps toons and still que as tank.

Let's be honest, most people can solo the nondlc dungeons without any sort of proper gear setup. queing as tank just expedites the process. Any teamate that dies, would have died regardless to some simple red circle mechanic. 90% of the nondlc mechanics can be avoided by just tapping block on any build.

derpy_cat1234 · October 2020

Super Low DPS in vet content (esp DLCs)

Don't worry guys fake dds will be a thing of the past now that zos is innacting their master plan to raise the floor. I'm sure it will work wonders this time! 🙃

Sanguinor2 · October 2020

josiahva wrote: »

This is a misleading screenshot and implies that you were doing almost as much damage as the DPS. I guess that is technically true, but knowing that fight, I am willing to be this only happened because the DPS and/or heals were lying dead on the floor most of the fight because pugs evidently don't know how and when to block.

Even if it was because of the dps being dead doesnt change the outcome: They are still bad dps if they die in vEH1 so often that the tank gets even damage/outdamages them.

Zulera301 · October 2020

All of the above

because I know I have the power. They need me more than I need them, so I can just bail from a bad group, requeue, have that queue pop <2 seconds later because I'm a tank, and see if this next group is competent at all. if so, roll with it; if not, rinse/lather/repeat.

newtinmpls · October 2020

PrimusNephilim wrote: »

as a side note: when a tank turns the Boss around, facing it away from the group, don't run up next to the tank facing the Boss to do your DPS, there's a reason why I'm turning him around (◔_◔)

This happened to me the other day...doing a quickie run (well in theory) through Elden Root (a few other things went wonky) but noted one of the DPS's couldn't seem to stay alive, and then realized when he dropped, he was standing right next to me .. again.

It took my brain ridiculously long to realize that yes, that person was that .... [insert clever thing here - I don't have enough coffee on board]

Kurat · October 2020

I like tanking and dps equally and pug alot. When I'm tanking vet dlc dungeons, I find chances of clearing alot higher than if I queued as dps. Most dlc dungeons can be cleared with as little as 20-30k group total dps. It's just painful to tank that run. But when I queue as dps I'm somewhat dependent on tank. Lately I've gotten many new or just bad tanks who cant stay alive, dont stack adds, not wearing any support sets, no crusher and some didn't even provide major fracture. If theres no buffs/debuffs and I have to rolldodge around because heavy hitting mobs attack me all the time, how can I do good dps? Tank just stands there with boss and dies every 10-20 sec.
More people have started tanking lately because of long dps queues it seems. But bad tanks are also holding group back or prevent clear.

CowNRB · October 2020

All of the above

I can stand lowish DPS for any dungeon without a dps check but I do hate when DPS pulls everything before i am even there..... Like if your going to do that go solo. Also I do prefer a healer more for the DPS and some harder dungeons but yea i don't get Fake healer to much anymore.

I rather have a dps that is alive then died as you can't dps while dead.

Indigogo · October 2020

Group pulls early

Pulling before me when I'm already moving at a cracking pace is my #1 no no.

BigBragg · October 2020

All of the above

Indigogo wrote: »

Pulling before me when I'm already moving at a cracking pace is my #1 no no.

You pull it, you tank it. If it happens a lot I put on a jester personality and hat, then run circles around the player who does it. Makes me laugh, even though few ever learn.

CaffeinatedMayhem · October 2020

All of the above

BigBragg wrote: »

Indigogo wrote: »

Pulling before me when I'm already moving at a cracking pace is my #1 no no.

You pull it, you tank it. If it happens a lot I put on a jester personality and hat, then run circles around the player who does it. Makes me laugh, even though few ever learn.

Depending on how toxic that player was, I may just stand at the back of the group and critique their tanking (and or comment about how you don't do that when I rez them)

If it's some "I solo vet dungeons you're holding me back" kind of person who never said hi, and was on the first boss before I loaded in it's "Oh, seems you didn't need a tank after all." and drop group.

In 15 mins I get insta queue again. I can steal, do writs, run pledges with my healer, or a lot of other things for 15 minutes.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · October 2020

My main gripe is people who insist on telling me how to play my character, despite the fact that they obviously never played a tank in ESO, nor have any insight into how the game works or even how they are performing themselves.

My Templar magtank is a bit weird, I admit that, but I can hold taunt on a dozen mobs and clump them up in a neat little slowed-down ball for everyone else to kill easily, I need no heals to stay alive (even though good heals help me perform better), and I can deal some pretty decent damage in the process. I'm kind of selfish, and group buffs are not a high priority when I see that I am doing about half the damage of the group, such that me providing support to marginally raise other people's DPS would only take away from the group total. I often switch to a restoration staff back bar to throw some actual heals around when a fake healer fails to provide them, but then all I hear is "wtf fake tank no s&b kick". No. There are other ways to tank, in my case a frost/resto staff setup, and they work just fine. In fact, with some patience, my build can basically carry a very weak group though a vet dungeon, keeping everyone alive, keeping most enemies on me all the time and doing a significant part of the damage. Apparently, it is too much to ask that they pay attention to what's actually happening in the fight, and note that we are melting the mobs while they take no hits at all, unless they refuse to move out of red.

I prefer a group of friends, thank you. If they are terribly bad, we can at least laugh and learn as a group, and perhaps scale down our expectations a bit by taking it slow, going normal instead of vet on a DLC dungeon, or skipping hard mode because of too low group DPS without causing someone to rage quit. Random groups can be a nice experience, sure, but it happens too seldom to be worth it.

Ankaridan · October 2020

Super Low DPS in vet content (esp DLCs)

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

This is a misleading screenshot and implies that you were doing almost as much damage as the DPS. I guess that is technically true, but knowing that fight, I am willing to be this only happened because the DPS and/or heals were lying dead on the floor most of the fight because pugs evidently don't know how and when to block.

Even if it was because of the dps being dead doesnt change the outcome: They are still bad dps if they die in vEH1 so often that the tank gets even damage/outdamages them.

It's also not a misleading screenshot - it's quite informative. It's saying that his 4k dps (on his tank) accounted for 20% of the total group dps. That's 20k group dps.

20k. GROUP. How is that a misleading screenshot when the information is quite succinctly provided? I don't think you're reading it properly.