I never thought I'd ask for sorc pet buffs, but..

Apox · September 2020

can we please stop them from being unsummoned when your action bar gets replaced by something else, I.e: frostvault skeevatons and stone garden werewolf hulks?

This would be a pretty nice qol bump for sorc dps and healers, but I main a sorc tank, and let me tell you, arkasis and stonekeeper on hardmode dont deal an insignificant damage. I need my clannfear and i need my resource to cast on dark deals/bound aegis/clannfear heals.

I want to make it clear I'm not asking to be able to single bar sorc pets, just not have them unsummoned when fight mechanics take over your bar

Taleof2Cities · September 2020

I disagree, @Apox.

The events you describe are mechanics that players have to learn in those specific dungeons ... regardless of their class or build setup.

In other words, players without combat pets are completing the content. You can, too, with a little practice.

Apox · September 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I disagree, @Apox.

The events you describe are mechanics that players have to learn in those specific dungeons ... regardless of their class or build setup.

In other words, players without combat pets are completing the content. You can, too, with a little practice.

There's nothing to learn. You cant skip werewolf/skeever phase. Your solution is to simply not use a staple ability in a sorc tanks toolkit.

The fight isn't difficult, it's not uncompletable, it's just annoying that I have extra prebuff maintenance I have to do in the very short window of time I have before the bosses reactivate.

If ZOS is going to pull me into an unavoidable mechanic that swaps my bars, the least they can do is automatically resummon my pet when the phase ends.

Players without combat pets are most likely balanced around not having to use combat pets. sorc dps on the other hand have fewer things they need to worry about immediately after. i come out, i need to resummon pet, 3200 magicka, reapply my defensive, i use hurricane specifically to have less drain on my mag pool, recast crit surge 3700 magicka, recast wall of elements, 3500 magicka. I need to have all of this done by the time stonekeeper or arkasis reactivates to get a taunt and a heroic slash on them because they deal heavy damage to the tank. In the case of arkasis he's usually far enough away I need to taunt with inner fire, another 2500 magicka

I have 17.5k mag, a little more with bound aegis (which is another 3700 magicka when I need to block the buzzsaw or the steam vents). Stonekeeper has a debuff that causes me to take less healing as well, meaning my clannfear heal already barely moves my health bar. if clannfear heal isn;t enough, what makes you think vigor is going to be enough.

There is 0 reason why these unavoidable fight mechanics have to unsummon my primary heal that I have to spend magicka on to even be able to spend magicka on to heal myself with. Im not asking for single bar sorc pets, I'm not asking formy dinosaur to follow me around in skeever phase, just have him patiently waiting on me like a good boy to get back.

Mindcr0w · September 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I disagree, @Apox.

The events you describe are mechanics that players have to learn in those specific dungeons ... regardless of their class or build setup.

In other words, players without combat pets are completing the content. You can, too, with a little practice.

Players without pets come out of those mechanics ready to go.

Players who use pets need to take time and resources to resummon their pets.

Therefore players who use pets experience an extra level of inconvenience that other players don't.

OP didn't say it couldn't be done, he said he gets extra inconvenience on top of what others experience.

If you disagree that implies that you think pet users should receive this extra inconvenience. If so, why do you think they should?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · September 2020

Honestly, I think they should be single barred, so I guess I disagree as well. Haha.

They would certainly have to be toned down if that was the case, but double barred skills are a huge pain IMO, and really dont add any value (from a gameplay perspective) that I can see.

I do agree though that these types of mechanics negatively impact a pet sorc more than other specs. So does dying. I DPS on a lot of classes, and pet sorc is the worst to come back from if you die mid fight. You basically have one or two channel type buffs that you are trying to get back before you can do anything else. Your stats (health) are even tied to them, so you are way more likely to go down a second time in the first few seconds of being res'ed.

redspecter23 · September 2020

Pets are basically a class dot that stays out once summoned. If other classes can't use their class abilities, the same should apply to all classes, including sorcerers.

Apox · September 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

Pets are basically a class dot that stays out once summoned. If other classes can't use their class abilities, the same should apply to all classes, including sorcerers.

well, you've entirely missed the point my dude. good job. actually im impressed @redspecter23.

sorc pets do not follow you into the skeever phase on frostvault, and even if they did follow you around in werewolf hulk phase, the damage they did would be so inconsequential they may as well not even do damage. im not asking for them to do so. I want them to either stay put or reappear next to me after these mechanics end so i dont have to waste resource resummoning them because an unavoidable game mechanic took them away

for the record, i'd even be fine if my pets did no damage and were just utility spells. when i play magsorc i dislike how overpowered they are for dps for how much simpler your rotation is, but im always fine running matriarch because it provides solid offhealing.

Mindcr0w wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I disagree, @Apox.

The events you describe are mechanics that players have to learn in those specific dungeons ... regardless of their class or build setup.

In other words, players without combat pets are completing the content. You can, too, with a little practice.

Players without pets come out of those mechanics ready to go.

Players who use pets need to take time and resources to resummon their pets.

Therefore players who use pets experience an extra level of inconvenience that other players don't.

OP didn't say it couldn't be done, he said he gets extra inconvenience on top of what others experience.

If you disagree that implies that you think pet users should receive this extra inconvenience. If so, why do you think they should?

I just don't know how to explain it to these people any clearer. Im glad you get it.

redspecter23 · September 2020

@Apox I could have explained a bit clearer. Apologies. Part of the cost of the pet is the cast time. It's intentional that there is downtime when you resummon it. It's permanent so you pay for that by having downtime whenever you need to resummon it, including due to dungeon mechanics.

If a mechanic removes your class abilities, you should repay for them later, including all costs associated with it. The cast time is part of that cost.

Apox · September 2020

id agree with you if the boss fight had an anti pet mechanic that killed pets if you werent paying attention, but thats not the case. if you could outplay the game and avoid them being unsummoned, thatd be fine too

but you cant. there is no way to outplay it. hence they should be resummoned automatically. the same thing happens when you log out and log back in. your pets are there waiting for you. when you log out your pets play the unsummoned/death animation but you log back in and theyre there.

redspecter23 · September 2020

Apox wrote: »

id agree with you if the boss fight had an anti pet mechanic that killed pets if you werent paying attention, but thats not the case. if you could outplay the game and avoid them being unsummoned, thatd be fine too

but you cant. there is no way to outplay it. hence they should be resummoned automatically. the same thing happens when you log out and log back in. your pets are there waiting for you. when you log out your pets play the unsummoned/death animation but you log back in and theyre there.

You're right, pets do generally stick around unless killed, even through log in/out and rezoning. I agree completely that it's inconsistent, but I believe they should be resummoned each time instead of sticking around.

I suppose we both agree about the inconsistency, but disagree on the solution.

Apox · September 2020

why? your solution is unfun. your solution puts sorcs through extra inconvenience rather than just letting them play the game like everyone else

UntilValhalla13 · September 2020

It's basically the equivalent of telling a dk tank that you can't use dragon's blood for 3 or 4 seconds after coming out of the phase. It also drops your block while you're waiting for it.

Mindcr0w · September 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

It's permanent so you pay for that by having downtime whenever you need to resummon it, including due to dungeon mechanics.

We already "pay" for the pets' use in two ways:

1.) Just like most skills they are not worth slotting if you aren't using their active abilities in your rotation. (6 years into the game and people still act like pets are "free damage". They aren't. No pet sorc worth his salt just leaves them out for auto attacks.)

2.) They take up double space on our bars.

Having them get unsummoned by unavoidable mechanics as part of their "cost" on top of the above is excessive.

Apox · September 2020

Mindcr0w wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

It's permanent so you pay for that by having downtime whenever you need to resummon it, including due to dungeon mechanics.

We already "pay" for the pets' use in two ways:

1.) Just like most skills they are not worth slotting if you aren't using their active abilities in your rotation. (6 years into the game and people still act like pets are "free damage". They aren't. No pet sorc worth his salt just leaves them out for auto attacks.)

thats not strictly true. twilight tormentors active ability is not worth pressing in real combat. it only gets used before the pull then never again. its basic auto attack damage gets doubled, which is why its used. hence why i hate running pets on my magsorc dps

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

It's basically the equivalent of telling a dk tank that you can't use dragon's blood for 3 or 4 seconds after coming out of the phase. It also drops your block while you're waiting for it.

pretty much this. there is very little time to get everything i need casted after these mechanics.

Waffennacht · September 2020

I just dont see it being pulled off without some horrible stuck in summoning pet bug

Apox · September 2020

it works fine when you log into a character that had a pet summoned. if it can remember that i imagine it can remember skeevaton phase in frostvault.

zvavi · September 2020

It is an oversight of mechanics ignoring specific classes. Icereach has a similar problem tied to purge, wardens can't use their resource skill because it purges mechanics that don't need to be purged (fire to burn stranglers).

Anyone saying that it is "fair" or "should work that way" is being unbelievably silly, no class should have their main toolkits crippled in specific fights.

Apox · September 2020

yeah. i also remember dpsing icereach on my stamplar with ritual of ret as one of the main toolkit dps abilities, having it purge the flames as well. i just kinda feel like the people arguing against this havent ran the content or at least havent ran it on a class that gets an unfair disadvantage due to fight mechanics.

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

It's basically the equivalent of telling a dk tank that you can't use dragon's blood for 3 or 4 seconds after coming out of the phase. It also drops your block while you're waiting for it.

essentially telling them they have to cast a GDB with a cast time that costs magicka just to have access to the ability to spend magicka again at a later time to heal.

Noctiic · September 2020

Yupp agreed @apox.
But this is standard, regarding people’s ignorance to situational mechanical hindrance with certain classes/abilities. Just a shame that they are devout on developing an opinion and gathering a following for their ideas based on perception and not experience