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Warden Healers are seriously the too strong...especially after next patch buffs
Starlight_Whisper
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Minor Brittle: Increases the target’s Critical Damage taken by 10% - This is easy with well you know all frost sources they got.
Minor Toughness - 1k it's like ebon but can stack with ebon
Major Resolve: Increased to 5948, up from 5280. - important with damage reduction debuffs
Minor Vulnerability: Decreased to 5%, down from 8%. - why they were in cool crowd before
Minor Fortitude/Endurance/Intellect: Increased to 20%, up from 10%
* Only class with major maim and major protection which is more important with these following nerfs
AOE Breech of Physical and Spell Resistances - Not as cool as Necro but aoe never the less.
Only class able to pull off minor heroism potions without a lost as they have easy acess with healing skills of critical and spell damage buffs from typical pots.
Edited by ZOS_Exile on February 1, 2022 4:18PM Minor Toughness - 1k it's like ebon but can stack with ebon
Major Resolve: Increased to 5948, up from 5280. - important with damage reduction debuffs
Minor Vulnerability: Decreased to 5%, down from 8%. - why they were in cool crowd before
Minor Fortitude/Endurance/Intellect: Increased to 20%, up from 10%
* Only class with major maim and major protection which is more important with these following nerfs
- Major Maim: Decreased to 10%, down from 25%. and Major Protection: Decreased to 10%, down from 30%.
AOE Breech of Physical and Spell Resistances - Not as cool as Necro but aoe never the less.
Only class able to pull off minor heroism potions without a lost as they have easy acess with healing skills of critical and spell damage buffs from typical pots.
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Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Forgot the aoe major defile
Only class with 2 synergies for alkosh
uh...wut? They're not the only class with two synergies lol.
Assuming this is PVE related, since you mentioned Alkosh. Defile isn't relevant in PVE really. The Fort/Endurance/Intellect is a fair point. Maim/Protection just got nerfed. Nobody really uses Gate, either. I don't think the Maim from that works on bosses, either way. Minor Toughness is the "class buff", as it were. I hate it, but here we are.
No healer is using the AoE breach. A dps will slot that.
We don't really know what uptimes will be for a healer with a frost staff for brittle, we'll have to see.
I so often hear people complain about the Warden buffs/debuffs but really that's all they have. Healers good, tanks are so-so. DPS suffer (it seems) partly due to the fact that so much of our kit is just buffs/debuffs that often can be obtained through other sources, but then we still get punished for having them, especially in PVE.
If people want to have Warden carry less innate in-kit buff/debuff stuff, cool with me. But these threads need to come with a 40 font *and buff Warden DPS* tag to follow them.17 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Forgot the aoe major defile
Only class with 2 synergies for alkosh
uh...wut? They're not the only class with two synergies lol.
Assuming this is PVE related, since you mentioned Alkosh. Defile isn't relevant in PVE really. The Fort/Endurance/Intellect is a fair point. Maim/Protection just got nerfed. Nobody really uses Gate, either. I don't think the Maim from that works on bosses, either way. Minor Toughness is the "class buff", as it were. I hate it, but here we are.
No healer is using the AoE breach. A dps will slot that.
We don't really know what uptimes will be for a healer with a frost staff for brittle, we'll have to see.
I so often hear people complain about the Warden buffs/debuffs but really that's all they have. Healers good, tanks are so-so. DPS suffer (it seems) partly due to the fact that so much of our kit is just buffs/debuffs that often can be obtained through other sources, but then we still get punished for having them, especially in PVE.
If people want to have Warden carry less innate in-kit buff/debuff stuff, cool with me. But these threads need to come with a 40 font *and buff Warden DPS* tag to follow them.
They have 2 class synergies as option and potentially up to 4. Some people do use gate.
But I will go back to warden shouldn't have stamina regain 20 percent and Magicka regain 20 percent while sorc only has 20 Magicka regain to give to allies.
Now we can ingore major maim, but overall warden has way to many defensive options to support groups especially now that there's nerf. Frost cloak, protection, major main..then there's minor maim along with the potential allow with brittle. (Look below for brittle)
Increase the chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%.
I stand by what I said warden is way over top now.
This is on top of minor vulnerability and major toughness. It's not balanced.
Edited by Starlight_Whisper on September 28, 2020 6:31AM1 -
luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭You forgot the worst by far... Major mending this single passive makes wardens pretty much unkillable in PVP. Mix it with that long list of buffs and that's why wardens go from 1 to 100 life in just a few seconds.
They need to get rid of that passive or balance it already.PC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk1 -
Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Increase the chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%.
I stand by what I said warden is way over top now.
This is on top of minor vulnerability and major toughness. It's not balanced.
A few things here;
Applying Chilled while actively holding a Frost Staff now applies Minor Brittle in addition to its other effects. Note that the Staff must be on your active bar when Chilled is applied for this to proc.
First off, we have no idea what kind of duration Brittle has. Second, this requires you to be on a frost staff bar. Definitely doable for healers, but there's going to be gaps. Third, chilled uptimes even with a Warden DPS actually aren't that high. 60% or so on average. That passive is really good for sure, but it's not going to be 100% uptime.5 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Increase the chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%.
I stand by what I said warden is way over top now.
This is on top of minor vulnerability and major toughness. It's not balanced.
A few things here;
Applying Chilled while actively holding a Frost Staff now applies Minor Brittle in addition to its other effects. Note that the Staff must be on your active bar when Chilled is applied for this to proc.
First off, we have no idea what kind of duration Brittle has. Second, this requires you to be on a frost staff bar. Definitely doable for healers, but there's going to be gaps. Third, chilled uptimes even with a Warden DPS actually aren't that high. 60% or so on average. That passive is really good for sure, but it's not going to be 100% uptime.
Fact is they have 200 percent of applying chilled. This advantage no matter how you look at it. Maybe just frosting on top of cake but it's more then other classes with just bread.0 -
Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Increase the chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%.
I stand by what I said warden is way over top now.
This is on top of minor vulnerability and major toughness. It's not balanced.
A few things here;
Applying Chilled while actively holding a Frost Staff now applies Minor Brittle in addition to its other effects. Note that the Staff must be on your active bar when Chilled is applied for this to proc.
First off, we have no idea what kind of duration Brittle has. Second, this requires you to be on a frost staff bar. Definitely doable for healers, but there's going to be gaps. Third, chilled uptimes even with a Warden DPS actually aren't that high. 60% or so on average. That passive is really good for sure, but it's not going to be 100% uptime.
Fact is they have 200 percent of applying chilled. This advantage no matter how you look at it. Maybe just frosting on top of cake but it's more then other classes with just bread.
Know what else they have? No unique offensive group buff, particularly one applied by DPS. I feel, or rather hope, that's what Zos intends with Brittle. They need to find a way to make DPS apply it and not supports, which will be rough, but if they can, Warden DPS can finally be moderately relevant in content for like five minutes.5 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Increase the chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%.
I stand by what I said warden is way over top now.
This is on top of minor vulnerability and major toughness. It's not balanced.
A few things here;
Applying Chilled while actively holding a Frost Staff now applies Minor Brittle in addition to its other effects. Note that the Staff must be on your active bar when Chilled is applied for this to proc.
First off, we have no idea what kind of duration Brittle has. Second, this requires you to be on a frost staff bar. Definitely doable for healers, but there's going to be gaps. Third, chilled uptimes even with a Warden DPS actually aren't that high. 60% or so on average. That passive is really good for sure, but it's not going to be 100% uptime.
Fact is they have 200 percent of applying chilled. This advantage no matter how you look at it. Maybe just frosting on top of cake but it's more then other classes with just bread.
This is only with winter's embrace skills, the only viable one healers might consider using is winter's revenge, even then it's not going to consistently proc the passive. you are massively overstating the power of this passive because you don't play it.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale12 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Increase the chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%.
I stand by what I said warden is way over top now.
This is on top of minor vulnerability and major toughness. It's not balanced.
A few things here;
Applying Chilled while actively holding a Frost Staff now applies Minor Brittle in addition to its other effects. Note that the Staff must be on your active bar when Chilled is applied for this to proc.
First off, we have no idea what kind of duration Brittle has. Second, this requires you to be on a frost staff bar. Definitely doable for healers, but there's going to be gaps. Third, chilled uptimes even with a Warden DPS actually aren't that high. 60% or so on average. That passive is really good for sure, but it's not going to be 100% uptime.
Fact is they have 200 percent of applying chilled. This advantage no matter how you look at it. Maybe just frosting on top of cake but it's more then other classes with just bread.
Know what else they have? No unique offensive group buff, particularly one applied by DPS. I feel, or rather hope, that's what Zos intends with Brittle. They need to find a way to make DPS apply it and not supports, which will be rough, but if they can, Warden DPS can finally be moderately relevant in content for like five minutes.
That would be good. It's way too overpowered on supports on top of everything else they have.0 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Increase the chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%.
I stand by what I said warden is way over top now.
This is on top of minor vulnerability and major toughness. It's not balanced.
A few things here;
Applying Chilled while actively holding a Frost Staff now applies Minor Brittle in addition to its other effects. Note that the Staff must be on your active bar when Chilled is applied for this to proc.
First off, we have no idea what kind of duration Brittle has. Second, this requires you to be on a frost staff bar. Definitely doable for healers, but there's going to be gaps. Third, chilled uptimes even with a Warden DPS actually aren't that high. 60% or so on average. That passive is really good for sure, but it's not going to be 100% uptime.
Fact is they have 200 percent of applying chilled. This advantage no matter how you look at it. Maybe just frosting on top of cake but it's more then other classes with just bread.
Know what else they have? No unique offensive group buff, particularly one applied by DPS. I feel, or rather hope, that's what Zos intends with Brittle. They need to find a way to make DPS apply it and not supports, which will be rough, but if they can, Warden DPS can finally be moderately relevant in content for like five minutes.
That would be good. It's way too overpowered on supports on top of everything else they have.
we are trying to preserve brittle for frostden.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale2 -
OlumoGarbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭You all are talking like warden will get buffed next Patch because it has so many buffs that get nerfed to trash. While other classes have their raw number buffs staying the same, this is definitely a nerf to wardens.class representative for the working class, non-cp, bwb and Trolling13 -
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In my opinion Necro healers are the better choice and will continue to be so, especially with the new mythic item.
Most warden buffs don't require much effort, so they can be done by the tank and Necro has way stronger offensive buffs.0 -
JohnOfMarkarth✭✭✭I got enough of...
"nerf this class because despite its terrible clunk of dps abilities and necessity to slot a *pinkbunnies*ton of skills just for buffs and nothing else, it annoys me that they even can do that... or have any viability"
Or going so far to go the "P2W! This class shouldnt have viability else its P2W"
*Pinkbunnies*. OFF.
Suggestion for Devs: make the two classes base game so [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting and Rude Comments]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on September 28, 2020 1:02PMI can't do this anymore. Every small ... petit change that went against any semblance of sense has snowballed into an avalanche of (Penn & Teller:) Bulls...!
Gods, bless me with patience.5 -
Dalsinthus✭✭✭✭✭
✭You will only have the bar space to slot about 1/2 of the buffs listed in the original post. Many of those buffs are getting nerfed next patch (although the buff to minor endurance / intellect will be nice).
Warden healers are in a good place. Nothing they offer is OP and there's no reason to nerf them.
This thread reads as someone doesn't like the class or prefers another class and therefore wants warden nerfed.Edited by Dalsinthus on September 28, 2020 1:04PM11 -
Ozby✭✭✭✭✭I do not agree with the OP either and it seems they do not play Warden healers at all. I personally do not appreciate threads asking for classes to be nerfed because of a failure to understand how things work or lack of experience on a class.PC NA
Aurora Bravepaw (Healden), Basks in Fire (DKTank), Bran Artlion (Magplar), Brindel Seedthorne (Stamden WW), Brugo Gargak (Stamcro), Casimir Delmar (StamDK), Falco Bastion (Stamsorc), Fus Ro Dah (Stamplar), Gandalff the Gay (Petsorc), Jo-Qinan Betula (Magden), Laveera Hex (Magcro), Raine Whitestag (Stamden), Raised by Bears (Wardentank), Ralak Rotheart (Healcro), Selene Sunshadow MagDK), Shadow Mirage (NBTank), Slythe Rattlebone (Healplar), Ulfnor Dragonslayer (Tankcro).17 -
ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I do not agree with the OP either and it seems they do not play Warden healers at all. I personally do not appreciate threads asking for classes to be nerfed because of a failure to understand how things work or lack of experience on a class.
couldn't put it better myself.PvE Frost Warden Main and teacher. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@Frostingale
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/eso_nightingale1 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭I do not agree with the OP either and it seems they do not play Warden healers at all. I personally do not appreciate threads asking for classes to be nerfed because of a failure to understand how things work or lack of experience on a class.
It's because they will be overpowered in one role.0 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dalsinthus wrote: »You will only have the bar space to slot about 1/2 of the buffs listed in the original post. Many of those buffs are getting nerfed next patch (although the buff to minor endurance / intellect will be nice).
Warden healers are in a good place. Nothing they offer is OP and there's no reason to nerf them.
This thread reads as someone doesn't like the class or prefers another class and therefore wants warden nerfed.
They are getting that on top of everything else. They are already best healer class and anyone saying different is lying to themselves. They will be over the top with changes compared to other 5 classes.0 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
Won't get dps wardens with healers so strong...so you are wrong side.0 -
MrGhosty✭✭✭✭✭Maybe, just maybe we could see how it plays out in a live environment and see what sort of things can be done by players before declaring something overpowered and requiring nerfs?
Unless you've actually done all the various types of healing on this class on this PTS cycle. At which point I would love to see some actual logs to prove your case."It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom."2 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maybe, just maybe we could see how it plays out in a live environment and see what sort of things can be done by players before declaring something overpowered and requiring nerfs?
Unless you've actually done all the various types of healing on this class on this PTS cycle. At which point I would love to see some actual logs to prove your case.
They are already regarded as top healing class. Please tell me how adding more on top of that won't make it so. It's similar to 1 plus 1 in this case.1 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Same people that come back crying that their class gets nerfed when its their turn
i can translate this post very simply
"Im a healer and i dont play Warden but Warden is better than the class i've grinded so long and thats not fair because I care about myself more than anything so please nerf this class, so my class remains the best"6 -
Starlight_Whisper✭✭✭✭✭
✭Same people that come back crying that their class gets nerfed when its their turn
i can translate this post very simply
"Im a healer and i dont play Warden but Warden is better than the class i've grinded so long and thats not fair because I care about myself more than anything so please nerf this class, so my class remains the best"
My Warden Healer's name is starlight Whisper. So please do go on. How am I wrong?Edited by Starlight_Whisper on September 28, 2020 8:33PM0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Starlight_Whisper wrote: »Increase the chance of applying Chilled to enemies with Winter's Embrace abilities by 200%.
I stand by what I said warden is way over top now.
This is on top of minor vulnerability and major toughness. It's not balanced.
A few things here;
Applying Chilled while actively holding a Frost Staff now applies Minor Brittle in addition to its other effects. Note that the Staff must be on your active bar when Chilled is applied for this to proc.
First off, we have no idea what kind of duration Brittle has. Second, this requires you to be on a frost staff bar. Definitely doable for healers, but there's going to be gaps. Third, chilled uptimes even with a Warden DPS actually aren't that high. 60% or so on average. That passive is really good for sure, but it's not going to be 100% uptime.
Fact is they have 200 percent of applying chilled. This advantage no matter how you look at it. Maybe just frosting on top of cake but it's more then other classes with just bread.
From only skills in that skill line of which there is only 1 a healer would probably use in pve, it's an aoe dot which has the lowest chance to apply status effects in the game.
Base chance per tick = 1%
+200% class + 100% staff = 4%
If they happen to use charged, +220% = 6.2%
You're telling me it's OP that a Warden has a 6.2% chance per second to apply chilled to targets?
Any class can just use a frost enchantment for a base 20% chance. 40% with staff, 84% with charged front bar utilizing an infused enchant back bar. This is a NON issue. Seriously grasping at straws here.
Edited by MashmalloMan on September 28, 2020 11:19PM7 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Any class can get better uptime on aoe Major Breach as well from a universal skill called Razor Caltrops. Stamina cost and lasts 10s with a 4s debuff per target hit for up to 14s total. Why would you use a warden healer to cast Scorch every 3rd skill? Thats absolutely ridiciulous.Edited by MashmalloMan on September 28, 2020 11:21PM3 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »I got enough of...
"nerf this class because despite its terrible clunk of dps abilities and necessity to slot a *pinkbunnies*ton of skills just for buffs and nothing else, it annoys me that they even can do that... or have any viability"
Or going so far to go the "P2W! This class shouldnt have viability else its P2W"
*Pinkbunnies*. OFF.
Suggestion for Devs: make the two classes base game so [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting and Rude Comments]
They kind of are base game in a way lol. If you buy the 25$ (CAD) eso version, you get Morrowind included.
If you get the Greymoor full price version, you get every previous chapter, including Morrowind and Elsweyr. Every new player today will have at least access to Warden's.
It's the veteran players who refuse to pay for 1 month of a sub to get enough crowns to buy a class at 1500. This is like the farthest thing from pay to win I've ever seen in a game. Anyone who says this needs to play an Eastern MMORPG for 2 minutes to figure out what true pay to win looks like. SMH7 -
Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭MashmalloMan wrote: »JohnOfMarkarth wrote: »I got enough of...
"nerf this class because despite its terrible clunk of dps abilities and necessity to slot a *pinkbunnies*ton of skills just for buffs and nothing else, it annoys me that they even can do that... or have any viability"
Or going so far to go the "P2W! This class shouldnt have viability else its P2W"
*Pinkbunnies*. OFF.
Suggestion for Devs: make the two classes base game so [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting and Rude Comments]
They kind of are base game in a way lol. If you buy the 25$ (CAD) eso version, you get Morrowind included.
If you get the Greymoor full price version, you get every previous chapter, including Morrowind and Elsweyr. Every new player today will have at least access to Warden's.
It's the veteran players who refuse to pay for 1 month of a sub to get enough crowns to buy a class at 1500. This is like the farthest thing from pay to win I've ever seen in a game. Anyone who says this needs to play an Eastern MMORPG for 2 minutes to figure out what true pay to win looks like. SMH
Honestly the P2W argument straight up falls on deaf ears for me. That's nonsensical jargon to justify a bad argument.4
This discussion has been closed.