Stop adding stuff to warden pls. They already got many things.

For people who don’t want to do endgame content, sure, warden is just fine.

I think minor brittle should work in similar fashion to minor vuln sourced from shock damage. So all sources of frost damage including warden skills, necro boneyard, ice staff skills, ice enchant should have a chance to proc it. Trying to tie it to "holding the ice staff" seem artificial as if ZOS is trying to force ice staff on damage. That strategy never worked and people will not slot ice staff on DDs unless it actually is a source of good damage. With the current skill design it is not, it's a damage loss and therefore nobody will willingly slot it on DPS, so all it goes is making one support having to micromanage brittle in a very annoying and artificial manner.

Attach brittle to chilled and remove maim.

Then glacial presence can start being kool

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Kryser wrote: »

Increases the target’s Critical Damage taken by 20%. Not yet sourced.

Warden doesn't have to have every major and minor buff in the game, @Kryser.

The differences between sourced buffs are what makes each class unique.

I would gladly trade access to Major Brutality, Minor Berserk, Expedition and Major Savagery in-kit for access to a unique group buff that only Warden DPS can apply. GLADLY. Solo buffs that are completely irrelevant in group content aren't a reason to continue to push Wardens as a support-only class in end-game content.

Trials DPS is only one gameplay style, @Skjaldbjorn ... don't get too tunnel-visioned on a singular gameplay style when Wardens have it good in other areas.

Those other areas don't impact me. I'm forced to suffer because of PVP nerfs patch, after patch, after patch. It's absolutely exhausting. I get Wardens are good in PVP. That's cool. Nerf them. I won't lose any sleep. But stop dumpstering PVE Stamdens when you do it. This Shalk change is yet another PVP-driven change that actually just makes the Stamden rotation even more wonky and unpleasant.

I could, within three days, give you five incredibly easy, low-resource methods of improving Stamden DPS (and possibly Magden) without impacting PVP in the slightest, and without making their solo ability unacceptably high. This is what bothers me. As someone who has worked loosely in games development and balance, this kind of mental gymnastics is not sustainable. Classes should be balanced, and it's really not this difficult. Obviously there will always be a "best DPS class" and that's fine. That's normal. But the intentional dev-driven burying of DPS from year to year is utterly alarming. Stamden was super competitive back when they buffed Advanced Species. Then, PVP players cried, so they nerfed it. When they buffed AS, they nerfed the bear's damage to compensate. They never returned that damage, either. That was the one time since I began playing (Morrowind) where I can definitively say Stamden was competing for top-2 or top-3 PVE Stamina DPS. That's it.

Otherwise, outlier cases of good parses, but dwelling in or near the basement otherwise. It's disheartening, especially when they could alter a few lines of code and fix this.

hakan wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

I could, within three days, give you five incredibly easy, low-resource methods of improving Stamden DPS (and possibly Magden) without impacting PVP in the slightest, and without making their solo ability unacceptably high. This is what bothers me. As someone who has worked loosely in games development and balance, this kind of mental gymnastics is not sustainable. Classes should be balanced, and it's really not this difficult. Obviously there will always be a "best DPS class" and that's fine. That's normal. But the intentional dev-driven burying of DPS from year to year is utterly alarming. Stamden was super competitive back when they buffed Advanced Species. Then, PVP players cried, so they nerfed it. When they buffed AS, they nerfed the bear's damage to compensate. They never returned that damage, either. That was the one time since I began playing (Morrowind) where I can definitively say Stamden was competing for top-2 or top-3 PVE Stamina DPS. That's it.

Otherwise, outlier cases of good parses, but dwelling in or near the basement otherwise. It's disheartening, especially when they could alter a few lines of code and fix this.

thats not a warden only case. they do it a lot on different areas of the game too. i dont understand their motives anymore lol.

i cant really see the reason for nerfs anymore. they stripped nb of buffs and put them in the clunkiest skills that doesnt even fit, then overloaded others. i guess sheogorath is in the team now.

I don't necessarily disagree, but Warden has been a consistent, constant victim since release essentially from a PVE perspective. It's just unacceptable.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

It's enough that ONLY Warden can apply Minor Toughness to whole group. I've always found this a bad design, they should made a 5pc set that applies Minor Toughness to whole group. That way, you can bring Warden to have additional group support set, but your group wouldn't be s rewed if no Warden is around.

As of the current climate in ESO, if you put Minor Toughness on a set, it's somewhat reasonable you'd just never see Warden after that lol. That's literally the main reason you bring a Warden support atm.

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

It's enough that ONLY Warden can apply Minor Toughness to whole group. I've always found this a bad design, they should made a 5pc set that applies Minor Toughness to whole group. That way, you can bring Warden to have additional group support set, but your group wouldn't be s rewed if no Warden is around.

As of the current climate in ESO, if you put Minor Toughness on a set, it's somewhat reasonable you'd just never see Warden after that lol. That's literally the main reason you bring a Warden support atm.

You would still have to sacrifice a 5pc set be it Worm, Hollowfang, SPC, whatever for not having Warden in a group. So there would still be incentive to bring support Wardens.

Sure, but with RO/Jorv probably being dead, it's much more feasible. Healers would be in SPC/Hollow and Whateverthissetiscalled/Hollow.

If this is your reasoning, we need additional sources of Minor Savagery, Minor Prophecy, Minor Brutality and Minor...uh, the spell crit one, can't recall the name off the top of the dome. Point is, the more you stretch away from classes having unique buffs that require you to bring those classes, the more you push for 1-2 class metas. It's not a positive. We need more unique class buffs/debuffs/effects, not less. Otherwise, you will literally have raid groups min/maxed to the nth degree because class composition will no longer matter beyond the math.

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Kryser wrote: »

Increases the target’s Critical Damage taken by 20%. Not yet sourced.

Warden doesn't have to have every major and minor buff in the game, @Kryser.

The differences between sourced buffs are what makes each class unique.

I would gladly trade access to Major Brutality, Minor Berserk, Expedition and Major Savagery in-kit for access to a unique group buff that only Warden DPS can apply. GLADLY. Solo buffs that are completely irrelevant in group content aren't a reason to continue to push Wardens as a support-only class in end-game content.

Trials DPS is only one gameplay style, @Skjaldbjorn ... don't get too tunnel-visioned on a singular gameplay style when Wardens have it good in other areas.

Soloing vet dungeons and normal DLC is another play style. One that Stamwarden in its current form is hard times hard to the power of friggin hard. Miss a buff, miss a heal, miss a block = dead. It’s absolutely unforgiving. Given that wardens skill trees allow to to pick and choose between skills that can be used for tanking, healing and damage it still lags behind even in the solo play style.

I for one would love to play Stamden a lot more but I guess I will just continue to roll magplar and stamblade for solo play (and trail groups) because the performance is light years beyond what Stamden brings to the table.

Stamden is abysmal. Even doing world content, like soloing world bosses, I work twice as hard for inferior results. Even with all those buffs in-kit. Even with multiple sources of self-healing. Warden's just in an awful place outside of PVP.

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Kryser wrote: »

Increases the target’s Critical Damage taken by 20%. Not yet sourced.

Warden doesn't have to have every major and minor buff in the game, @Kryser.

The differences between sourced buffs are what makes each class unique.

I would gladly trade access to Major Brutality, Minor Berserk, Expedition and Major Savagery in-kit for access to a unique group buff that only Warden DPS can apply. GLADLY. Solo buffs that are completely irrelevant in group content aren't a reason to continue to push Wardens as a support-only class in end-game content.

Trials DPS is only one gameplay style, @Skjaldbjorn ... don't get too tunnel-visioned on a singular gameplay style when Wardens have it good in other areas.

Soloing vet dungeons and normal DLC is another play style. One that Stamwarden in its current form is hard times hard to the power of friggin hard. Miss a buff, miss a heal, miss a block = dead. It’s absolutely unforgiving. Given that wardens skill trees allow to to pick and choose between skills that can be used for tanking, healing and damage it still lags behind even in the solo play style.

I for one would love to play Stamden a lot more but I guess I will just continue to roll magplar and stamblade for solo play (and trail groups) because the performance is light years beyond what Stamden brings to the table.

Stamden is abysmal. Even doing world content, like soloing world bosses, I work twice as hard for inferior results. Even with all those buffs in-kit. Even with multiple sources of self-healing. Warden's just in an awful place outside of PVP.

The silver lining of this is that I became an instant beast at stamblade. The difference in power is night and day. Single target better, AOE better plus an actual class execute that’s turbo charged by your ultimate. Did I mention it sustains and self heals better than warden? It’s just silly the gap between the 2 classes.

With that in mind how about adding brittle to bear ultimate?

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Minor Toughness is different from regular class minor buffs. In order to get Minor Savagery, you bring Nightblade to your group, but doesn't matter if it's healer, tank or DD. The same is true for Minor Sorcery, Minor Prophecy and Minor Brutality. All this is easily applied by any spec (no need to change skills or anything) and with solid uptime. But Minor Toughness is different, because in order to have it active on everyone and with solid uptime, it must be Warden tank or Warden healer. Warden DD has no way of applying it to 11 other people with good uptime. The only reliable way to make use of this on warden DD is sloting Altar, but seriously which other class has to gimp itself just to be able to make use of its class unique buff? If not adding toughness to a set, I would be OK if warden DDs had reliable way of applying toughness to whole group without changing their standard DPS setups.

I get that to a point. Functionally, DPS should be able to apply it. However, it wouldn't really matter because it's a two-part problem.

1. Toughness is applied by healing. Zos has explicitly been working to remove heal + damage skills. Ritual was the most recent victim of this. They don't like things doing competitive damage and then healing on top. That means the trigger for Toughness would likely need to be changed, or DPS would continue to have to gimp themselves.

2. Until Warden DPS do competitive damage or bring a unique buff/debuff, simply giving them Toughness won't be enough. Warden supports, especially healers, are very good. Most groups would not bring a Warden DPS over a healer just for Toughness. It has to be more than that.