Move proposed Frost Staff Support Role from Destruction to Restoration Skill Line

llBlack_Heartll · September 2020

Move the Passive to Absorb - With a restoration Staff equipped you restore 540 Magicka when you block a projectile and Blocking cost Magicka
Move the Passive to Circle of Life -With a restoration Staff equipped you restore an additional 30% Magicka when you complete a heavy attack and reduce the cost of blocking by 36% and the amount blocked by 20%. (If this is over loaded for healers it could be - reduce the cost of blocking by 36% and the amount blocks by 20% when you have 5 pieces of heavy armour equipped)

Re -design Skill Blessing of Restoration - Slam your staff down to activate its blessings, healing you and your allies in front of you for 677 Health, Also grants Minor Resolve, increasing you and your allies' Physical Resistance and Spell Resistance by 1320 for 10 seconds and applies a Damage Shield to you and 5 nearby group members that absorbs projectiles.

Please give the Frost Staff to DPS, the skill line states "Destruction" There is nothing DESTRUCTIVE about Blocking and Damage Shields!!!!!

emilyhyoyeon · September 2020

I completely agree. The current proposed changes to and dev comments on frost staff are insulting to preestablished TES magic motifs.

I feel like I'm coming across as dramatic but TES has always encouraged OC design; how the world functions--and the consistency of the functions being upheld--is important to that. Destruction magic is not and has never been tanking magic (apart from some elemental resistance spells).

The placement of support on the ice destruction element was done out of unwillingness to make a new support staff. If a new one won't be made, restoration staff suits WAY better. The restoration school has a gamedesign history of not just healing, but also buffing stats (attributes and skills, depending on the game), purges, and so forth. Even the ''minor brittle'' debuff is more suited to the restoration school.

I'm asking for respect of existing world-design that has no reason to be retconned, especially where the retcon of which likely hurts players' own creations.

DustyWarehouse · September 2020

It is bad enough they conflated the tanking role with a DPS weapon, I can't imagine things would be much smoother if they did the same with a healer's primary tool instead. That being said, resto seems more fitting than destro.

llBlack_Heartll · September 2020

DustyWarehouse wrote: »

It is bad enough they conflated the tanking role with a DPS weapon, I can't imagine things would be much smoother if they did the same with a healer's primary tool instead. That being said, resto seems more fitting than destro.

Resto is 100% way more fitting, Although I do see an issue with Tanks having access to slotting good heals.
The only other way is if they add it to the Sword and Board Skill line, honestly I just want the frost staff to be viable for DPS and not being tied to Tanking and Support roles.

emilyhyoyeon · September 2020

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

DustyWarehouse wrote: »

It is bad enough they conflated the tanking role with a DPS weapon, I can't imagine things would be much smoother if they did the same with a healer's primary tool instead. That being said, resto seems more fitting than destro.

Resto is 100% way more fitting, Although I do see an issue with Tanks having access to slotting good heals.
The only other way is if they add it to the Sword and Board Skill line, honestly I just want the frost staff to be viable for DPS and not being tied to Tanking and Support roles.

Could make the tank-oriented restoration staff abilities scale off max HP or something. One morph for healing scaled off max magicka, one morph for tanking scaled off max HP.
Who uses the other morph of combat prayer? the siphon ability?
Maybe the first two (grand healing and regeneration) can remain as pure-healing.

Add a block passive to restoration staff. ''Blocking with a restoration staff increases your defenses, reducing the cost of block by 36% and increasing amount of damage blocked by 20%''... and so on.

p00tx · September 2020

They need to make a separate skill line, like Gauntlets or something. Let it encompass magic tanking and some debuffs/buffs, centered on group play. Reinventing the wheel every time an update hits is getting tiresome. Just add an extra wheel and moderately prune the rest.

vgabor · September 2020

The main reason why tanks use destro staff today is to have the elemental wall proccing crusher. Unless you give similar ground based ability to resto staff to keep us crusher tanks still will use destro back bar (the only alternative today is bow which rarely but occasionally does get used as tank backbar)

idk · September 2020

The first issue is tanking is a support role as well. The goal was to make the weapon better suited to tanking and not make it exclusive to tanking.

Edit: In reading the OP message further, it seems they want the benefits of having a tanking weapon while still holding a rstaff. The block cost reduction damage reduction while blocking is specific to tanking weapons and as such should not be moved to the rStaff.

Equipe a tanking weapon if that is what you want.

llBlack_Heartll · September 2020

idk wrote: »

The first issue is tanking is a support role as well. The goal was to make the weapon better suited to tanking and not make it exclusive to tanking.

Edit: In reading the OP message further, it seems they want the benefits of having a tanking weapon while still holding a rstaff. The block cost reduction damage reduction while blocking is specific to tanking weapons and as such should not be moved to the rStaff.

Equipe a tanking weapon if that is what you want.

I don't want benefits of a Tanking weapon while holding a resto, its just an option to move it a place where it is better suited, so we can actually use a Frost Staff in a DPS role and be viable.

llBlack_Heartll · September 2020

p00tx wrote: »

They need to make a separate skill line, like Gauntlets or something. Let it encompass magic tanking and some debuffs/buffs, centered on group play. Reinventing the wheel every time an update hits is getting tiresome. Just add an extra wheel and moderately prune the rest.

Yes, I would agree, it would certainly fix the issue. Although it is unlikely that they will create a new skill line

Cireous · September 2020

Um, no one is stopping you from using both the resto staff and the frost staff for support. Try it, it's super fun. Personally, if they add a new support weapon, I'd like to see a healing bow.

kojou · September 2020

They could make new lines for Alteration or Illusion staves...

SilverIce58 · September 2020

kojou wrote: »

They could make new lines for Alteration or Illusion staves...

Yeah, but that would require 5 new passives, 5 new skills, and 1 new ult, which (even if I do want, and do support having a staff that does magic dmg) would take some time to create, and putting the taunt, breach, and a few other minor/major buffs on resto staff would be an easier fix for now.

Someday I hope to see an Alteration staff for magicka tanking tho. That'd be a great addition to our arsenals.

luen79rwb17_ESO · September 2020

Players have been asking for years "take the tanking away from frost staves", what we get? A tanking AND support staff! LMAO!

EDS604 · September 2020

Maybe change 1 of power bash morphs to stomp the ground and leave a ground aoe for 10 seconds? So tanks can proc their enchants reliably? Possibly add a passive that increases 1 hand enchantment potency (tho that would probably be problematic in pvp). On the other hand, seeing the changes they're making to major/minor breach, is crusher still needed?
If i add up the numbers, groups can get away with not even using alkosh at all tbh.

(All these issues wouldn't be here if ZoS just seperated pve from pvp)

emilyhyoyeon · September 2020

vgabor wrote: »

The main reason why tanks use destro staff today is to have the elemental wall proccing crusher. Unless you give similar ground based ability to resto staff to keep us crusher tanks still will use destro back bar (the only alternative today is bow which rarely but occasionally does get used as tank backbar)

The issue isn't tanks using destruction staves backbar (which most of the time is a lightning staff), the issue is frost destro staves--frost being an element no more suited to tanking than fire or lightning, according to preexisting TES world design--is being made more viable for tanking and support and more pitiful for DD, its rightful role.

emilyhyoyeon · September 2020

@ the people talking about proccing backbar enchants:

The idea I get from the devs is that they're trying to appease players who want a front bar magicka tanking tool. Theis thread's idea is to make restoration staff this tool instead of destruction staff, because restoration is more fitting based on preexisting TES world design.
If the devs are trying to get players to slot frost frontbar, then backbar is still open for a tool that easily procs crusher. If the frontbar staff is swapped to resto, then tanks can still easily proc crusher with a destro backbar as they do now.

llBlack_Heartll · September 2020

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Players have been asking for years "take the tanking away from frost staves", what we get? A tanking AND support staff! LMAO!

I know right, I just don't think we are ever listened too.

vgabor · September 2020

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

The idea I get from the devs is that they're trying to appease players who want a front bar magicka tanking tool.

The s&b skill line has all those passives for block cost reduction and damage mitigation plus the reduction to movement penalty while blocking. Until something similar provided for magicka tanking it will never be a viable option for end content and trials. Tanking not just about having a taunt, it needs much more components and until a magicka based build can provide them it will be still s&b front bar.

emilyhyoyeon · September 2020

vgabor wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

The idea I get from the devs is that they're trying to appease players who want a front bar magicka tanking tool.

The s&b skill line has all those passives for block cost reduction and damage mitigation plus the reduction to movement penalty while blocking. Until something similar provided for magicka tanking it will never be a viable option for end content and trials. Tanking not just about having a taunt, it needs much more components and until a magicka based build can provide them it will be still s&b front bar.

Exactly. SnB has a lot more than frost staff. It's fundamentally so different. I saw someone else mention in a different staff thread that SnB even provides the extra armor from simply using a shield. Add to that everything you just mentioned and more.

The amount of change to frost staff to make it a real combatant with SnB would literally just look ridiculous. Like the ingame tooltips would look so different from the other two staves it would make a person think ''how is this not a totally different category of weapon?'' It's not intuitive in any way. All the weird tanking tooltips that are already there just look out of place.

I really feel like it's useless to advocate for them making a new magicka tanking weapon, but it honestly just needs to be done without this stuff being just....... silly?