Why is Rada al-Saran bringing back the Gray Host? [possible Greymoor Spoilers]

PrayingSeraph · June 2020

ListerJMC wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

I dont think Souls need not be willing to become property of a daedric prince though, since Lustrants literally had their soul "purified" by Meridia, and many lustrants were most definitely unwilling.

Yeah, there are werewolves in the Hunting Grounds and vampires in Coldharbour who aren't there willingly. Some of them even worshipped other gods and still ended up there.

I'm not sure the Moth Priest disproves the theory that vampires and werewolves "default" to Coldharbour/The Hunting Grounds if they don't make a choice to pledge themselves to another Prince or cure themselves. I don't dispute that there are ways to avoid ending up in those places - there are examples of it happening - but if one does nothing, where do they go? The Aedra don't seem to want them unless they cure and "purify" themselves. Being able to get divine blessings could be a player exception for progression reasons, I can't think of a vampire in lore who isn't hurt by Aedric things?

Agreed, there are ways to avoid the going to Coldharbour after death but nothing I see seems to suggest the default of going to Coldharbour/Hunting Grounds doesnt exist. Princes like Meridia, Molag Bal and others take souls whether the soul in wuestion worshipped them or not. They become owners of said souls. There are circumstances where they may lose souls, such as when the vestige gets pumped on Aedric power and beats the living crap out of Bal, but these scenarios aren't common. And according to the Dark Brotherhood, the souls of those markef by them for death have their souls taken by Sithis to the void. Which is downright terrifying but clearly not advocative of the idea will and choices are what only determine afterlife.

ListerJMC · June 2020

Alright, I just finished the main quest again and had a few more thoughts:

That big Harrowstorm in Solitude sounded like it was supposed to bring back the rest of his Exarchs and a lot of Gray Host warriors ("The last of the Gray Host shall be reborn!"), but we stopped it from happening. So if his plan was to bring back his Exarchs and army, what is motivating him now? Why continue to assist the Coven if they've failed him? And what did Svargrim promise to do that probably can't be done anymore?

Given the 'everything can happen in any order' mentality, my guess is that the events of Q4 are going to be done in a way that means they could be occurring at the same time as Q2. But if his main motivation is the restoration of his Exarchs, those of us who have done Western Skyrim will be walking into it feeling as though we've already destroyed his motivation... Has he resurrected some of his Exarchs off-screen and they're already at the next destination? Is there something else he wants out of this arrangement? There's revenge, but I thought that'd be reserved for the epilogue.

We didn't destroy all the ashy remains in Blackreach and he seems to need those to reform the person's body, so I suppose he could reclaim them and try again once he completes his next power grab, presumably in the Reach (if you talk to Fennorian after the final quest, he tells you that House Ravenwatch has tracked Rada to "somewhere in the Reach" and there's the Red Eagle/Markarth reference at Karthwatch). He may have also retrieved the bodies of the two Exarchs we killed to try and get them back again.

I think he plans to restore and take his revenge against the 13th Exarch next time (I still think it's Verandis and Tzinghalis took some of Fennorian's blood during his torture to make up for the lack of ash remains needed for the ritual), but I don't know how that benefits his plan exactly? Other than that if it is Verandis, his blood has some kind of unique property that Lady Essenia tried to use to strengthen their army which they may try to exploit again (side note: given the story of Saint Pelin and the Gray Host's defeat also involves blood of a unique property, I've wondered if there's a connection there?).

I'm actually feeling a bit more confused about Rada's motivations after this second run-through. I absolutely could have connected dots wrong, but I'm not the only one who's made these same connections on their own. I guess I'm just waiting on the next installments, now.

MizoreReyes · September 2020

I think Rada al-Saran wanted to revive the Gray Host to give them freedom. Freedom from Molag Bal, and probably freedom from mortals. Making the world there's to live for eternity.

When becoming a vampire, your soul becomes bound to Molag Bal's realm of Coldharbour where he can freely torture you. Though there are turn arounds, your soul can be bargained with another Daedric Prince like Azura or Clavicus Vile but your soul is still not truly free. Questionable as to why Ulfra the werewolf's soul will be put back into the hands of Molag Bal's and not in the hands of Hircine's. Maybe she made a deal with Molag Bal and regrets it. IDK. Rada al-Saran was furious when we killed his brother and sister, Tzinghali and Ulfra, and even mentioning their souls will be taken back to Molag Bal but they can still be revived.

Whereas Rada's grudge with mortals, something must have happened which will be answered later on. Maybe it has to do with the battle at Bangkorai Pass or from Empress Hestra's army from Cyrodiil in the 1st Era. As Rada al-Saran has mentioned they won't attack unless they get attacked but King Styriche of Verkarth craved going to war with the mortals. This has not yet been answered on who attacked first.

With disregard for mortal life, they proceeded to use harrowstorms with the combined forces of vampires, werewolves, reachmen, and the paid draugrkin. Taking life energy through the use of harrowstorms and using it to pull the souls of the Gray Host out of Coldharbour and into gray reliquaries. There is one way to prevent your soul from being stolen by harrowstorms is by using Fennorian's exilir which uses aedric material. These stone husks that contain the souls are used as incubators to reform the physical form of Gray Host members. Count Verandis of House Ravenwatch was the first to use this method to save Lord Montclair's ill wife, Lisolda but it made her mad and she couldn't be saved with such a weak will of control. Verandis kills her and wants to find a better method that doesn't sacrifice a lot. However, Tzinghali continued this horrorific method as he does not see mortals as equals.

So there are many Exarchs/members in the Gray Host Court. (Their court reminds me of Castlevania's court)

Here are names of some:
Exarch Verandis of House Ravenwatch (died saving Rivenspire from the Ayleid's Doomcrag but resurreted and is an ex-member of the Council of the Gray Host)
Steward Faustine (human vampire)
Pentarch Kovan of House Indoril (has many siblings but wanted to be unique and is a dark elf vampire)
Alois Bielle (human vampire)
Exarch Turvon (vampire who was training recruits in the way of the sword)
King Styriche of Verkarth (who rules a city in Hammerfell, near the Dragontail Mountains where the old dragonguards resided and is summoned by Molag Bal at a Dolmen)
Fangaril (a werewolf that is summoned by Molag Bal at a Dolmen and found at Grayhome)
Zayzahad (a werebat that is summoned by Moalg Bal at a Dolmen and can be found at Grayhome on the ceiling)
Exarch Longstep (a wood elf vampire)
Exarch Nezb (a khajiit vampire)
Exarch Ulfra (nord werewolf behemoth we killed and loves to hunt mortals)
Lsrek (was beside Ulfra)
Fasef al-lskour (human vampire practicing the way of the sword)
Exarch Sanctus (elegant but manipulative human vampire)
Izoufa the Red (redguard vampire that looks like Sanctus's bodyguard)
Exarch Tzinghalis (mad scientist who likes to discuss philosophy vs science with Vernadis and who we kill)
Eeze of the Creeping Dusk (nordic vampire dancing on the blood fountain)
Exarch Uls Grimlantern (your typical nord/viking vampire that loves to drink blood and is also chubby from drinking all that blood)
Exarch Vem (imperial vampire with Asian attire + fan and is also sadistic)
Exarch Rouillac (imperial vampire that was drinking blood with Exarch Vem)
Exarch Kraglen (armoured right hand of Rada al-Saran)
Lord Rada al-Saran (Vampire Leader of the Gray Host, Ashen Lord + former sword-singer)
Lady Essenia (human vampire that experimented on people and killed by us in the Greymoor Keep)
King Svargrim (High King of Western Skyrim and killed by us)
Pentarch Khorb (nord BLOOD knight that assassinated the Queen of Solitude)
Sister Balra (reachmen werewolf behemoth that tried to kill King Jorunn the Skald-King)
Sister Tharda (reachmen witch)
Sister Ambritt (summoned harrowstorm at Meridia's Shrine)
Sister Elra (reachmen witch encountered at Morthal and Karhwatch saying that they'll be revived)
Lady Thorn (Stonethorn DLC Vampire Lord boss)

Mother Ciannait (reachmen witch from Ice Reach DLC)
Her Underlings:
Sister Bani (specializes necromancy)
Sister Maefyn (specializes storm magic)
Sister Gohlla (specializes ice magic)
Sister Hiti (specializes fire magic)
Sister Skelga (hagraven)
Drodda of the Icereach (Direfrost Keep boss that might be related)
There are more but they're less relevant.

The Volkihar vampires worship Molag Bal so they have less ties to this group's goal and just don't want any part in their scheme against Molag Bal.
The Breton Court Wizard of the Blue Palace in Solitude in the 4th Era is Sybille Stentor is probably also tied to the Grey Host because she is secretly a vampire that tests on prisoners. And she even helped raise High King Torygg who was killed by Ulfric Stormcloak. This could have turned into another High King Svargrim situation. You could say Ulfric saved Skyrim.

But anyways Lord Rada al-Saran despises Molag Bal. When vampires die, they go to Molag Bal's realm of Coldharbour and lose freedom of their soul. Vampire King Styriche of Verkarth can be found summoned by a dolmen in Tamriel. It must mean he supports Molag Bal. It was said that he led the Grey Host vampires to the Bangkorai Garrison where they were defeated there. Saint Pelin who was stationed there, prayed to Stendarr to give him infinite blood and leaped down to fight the hungry vampires and the garrison took advantage of that. Pelin survived that fight which is outlandish. Only two Council members of the Grey Host survived the battle which was Count Verandis of House Ravenwatch, & Lord Rada al-Saran. Verandis wanted no part in violence with the mortals and distanced himself so he survived. Rada al-Saran survives the battle but he took refuge at Viridian Watch which is near the Bangkorai Garrison. He probably swam across the Viridian Wood Lake and was later found on the coast. Most likely he was swept by the waves. He was nurtured by a Direnni noble, Lady Ingerien of Clan Direnni aka Lady Thorn. She calls herself a loyal servant to Rada al-Saran which might mean she willingly accepted Rada's gift of immortality or was hypnotized.

It was said that Rada al-Saran's 13th Exarch betrayed him. That could either mean Verandis or Styriche who recklessly led the the army to their demise and eventually or maybe joined Molag Bal.
A note from Lady Thorn: "Dam Styriche's recklessness and his sickening ego! It is truly unjust that the man who brokered the deal with Molag Bal should be the downfall of a great order."
This right here is probably why Rada al-Saran did not revive Styriche.

Aristocles22 · September 2020

Honestly, the whole "evil vampire army" thing is really boring and uninspired. It isn't anything unique to TES, nor is it tied to most of the lore in ESO or any of the ongoing crises facing Tamriel at the moment, apart from shoehorning in Lyris. I think the bigger reason is why should anyone care? At least the dragons in Elsweyr was tied to the Three-Banners War and the Tharns.