many players are unhappy with change to rapids then why are these changes making it through the pts

eovogtb16_ESO · August 2020

It would probably be faster to log into cyrodiil and spend the 15 minutes there getting rapids then it is spending this time on the forums making a post complaining about how you have to spend 15 minutes playing the game to get a skill.

esotoon · August 2020

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

It would probably be faster to log into cyrodiil and spend the 15 minutes there getting rapids then it is spending this time on the forums making a post complaining about how you have to spend 15 minutes playing the game to get a skill.

Please show a video of yourself going from rank 2 to rank 5 in the Assault Lines in 15 mins. I'm looking forward to learning from your expertise.

Finedaible · August 2020

RemanCyrodiil_I wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

I’d also like to think that whoever made the decision didn’t realize how controversial it would be and how much pain it would cause. Thus, I continue to hope that maybe they will reconsider and revert the change, or, preferably, come up with an alternative, less drastic solution.

Rich explained in today's streamed Q&A that the decision was made since Vigor is the only stam heal available to players. They believe that the benefits of making Vigor more easily available outweigh the negatives of swapping it with Rapids for this reason.

If they indeed said that, then they have no foresight because the only thing this change has accomplished was solve a lesser problem by creating a larger one, when they could have just addressed the source of the problem in the first place which is stamina skills having no reliable heals until deeper into their progression. Rapids on the other hand was much more essential to the budding PvP player/character since it gets them into the battle for much needed AP. It's a band-aid excuse to a problem that just so conveniently happens to encourage crown store purchases, as if not enough of this game's enjoyment is behind a paywall already.

Joinovikova · August 2020

ThePedge wrote: »

IT TAKES A COUPLE OF HOURS, JUST DO IT.

Do you know how long I had to farm Fang Lair for a Caluurions inferno staff? Do you know how long I had to farm vDSA for an Inferno Staff, Bow, and I still don't have Duel Weild.

99% of this game is PvE. Everyone who enjoys PvP has to spend more time doing stuff they don't enjoy, than you will have to for Rapids.

For the days you spend arguing on the forum you could have it on all of your characters by now.

it takes 30-40 min with random lfg in cyrol

just need 98k AP. I really dont understand such QQ about this...

Gythral · August 2020

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

It would probably be faster to log into cyrodiil and spend the 15 minutes there getting rapids then it is spending this time on the forums making a post complaining about how you have to spend 15 minutes playing the game to get a skill.

More like 4 to 5 hours than 15mins and that assumes you can get to the fights (without rapids)

esotoon · August 2020

Joinovikova wrote: »

it takes 30-40 min with random lfg in cyrol just need 98k AP. I really dont understand such QQ about this...

It can indeed be done that quick. On the other hand it can take just as long to even join an LFG. And even if you join a group straight away, you can go hours without making much AP at all. It all depends on which server you are on, what platform, the time of day you join, and how strong/bad your faction is at the time you log on.

However, if your theory is "it doesn't take long to get so why complain", isn't the counter argument to that, "if it doesn't take long to get to rank 5, why change things"?

Then ask yourself a question. Which takes longer in Cyrodiil: Having rapids from the start and getting to Rank 5, or having Vigor from the start and getting to Rank 5?

Dark_Lord_Kuro · August 2020

Recent wrote: »

I'm curious to know if the majority player base are even being considered when making these huge changes. In my personal opinion i think it's hugely unfair to be robbed of a skill many of my pve alts had for years btw. I have 13 level 50s and i dont even what to look at what ones lost their rapids.

This is extremely unfair to take something i did training quests for and just change it on me without my consent.
Such a LOW act on zos behalf to manipulate players to buy the pvp skill lines so all for the store sad

Maybe because the pts isnt for know if we like the change but tather if they work

wishlist14 · August 2020

Guyle wrote: »

Recent wrote: »

Guyle wrote: »

Cuz ZOS figured they can monetize the skill line more if they make rapids harder to get. Also, ppl are more likely to buy the mount upgrade tokens from the crown store if they want to avoid pvping or buying the entire skill line. Just another step in the long line of extortionist level tactics they've employed the last few years.

Yes i finally agree it's just for monetary gain but after all the poor server performances etc it feels like being kicked while we're down type cenario...it's seriously shameless.

Absolutely, if we had anything to show for all of their shameless money grabs, it'd be one thing, but instead, we have a game that runs worse than it ever has before, and keeps getting worse every time they try to make it better. If they put any of that money back into the game it'd be tolerable, but as it is it seems they put less than the bare minimum back into the game.

I agree 100%. I just lost a great eso friend due to him leaving because of this ridiculous change. You would think zos would try to appease the angry mob not poke it with a hot poker.

CoronHR · August 2020

am i the only one who doesn't give a [snip] about this?

Lord-Otto · August 2020

CoronHR wrote: »

am i the only one who doesn't give a [snip] about this?

Yes.

Tandor · August 2020

Nestor wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

You mean the people arguing that the changes are bad aren't all reading from the same shared experinces too?

Fixed that for you.

Shared experiences that suck for everyone is not a script.

I've no problem with your replacing "script" with "shared experiences", but "everyone"? Not even close.

esotoon · August 2020

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Maybe because the pts isnt for know if we like the change but tather if they work

6 years of PTS demonstrate that it is definitely NOT used to tell if things work or not.

OldManJim · August 2020

CoronHR wrote: »

am i the only one who doesn't give a [snip] about this?

Looks like it.

This change is a massive QoL drop that impacts tons of players, just to benefit a few.

There are plenty of easy solutions that can appease both sides of the argument, but Zenimax just sits there in their White-Gold Tower refusing to come down from up high & congregate with us unwashed masses.

Seriously, what does it take to get one of them to communicate with us? Do I have to say their name 3 times like Hastur or Bloody Mary?

@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_RichLambert

Bet that doesn't even work...

Nomadic_Atmoran · August 2020

Recent wrote: »

I'm curious to know if the majority player base are even being considered when making these huge changes. In my personal opinion i think it's hugely unfair to be robbed of a skill many of my pve alts had for years btw. I have 13 level 50s and i dont even what to look at what ones lost their rapids.

This is extremely unfair to take something i did training quests for and just change it on me without my consent.
Such a LOW act on zos behalf to manipulate players to buy the pvp skill lines so all for the store sad

Bahahahahahahahahhaha

"many players" = only a handful of people here on the forums.

No one outside of here cares that much if at all about the change. And the only people that seem to think they can turn this into a bigger movement to reverse the change are you alt-aholics. This discussion can't even gain traction outside of here.

OldManJim · August 2020

Let's try this then...

@ZOS_RichLambert

"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear."

the1andonlyskwex · August 2020

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Recent wrote: »

I'm curious to know if the majority player base are even being considered when making these huge changes. In my personal opinion i think it's hugely unfair to be robbed of a skill many of my pve alts had for years btw. I have 13 level 50s and i dont even what to look at what ones lost their rapids.

This is extremely unfair to take something i did training quests for and just change it on me without my consent.
Such a LOW act on zos behalf to manipulate players to buy the pvp skill lines so all for the store sad

Bahahahahahahahahhaha

"many players" = only a handful of people here on the forums.

No one outside of here cares that much if at all about the change. And the only people that seem to think they can turn this into a bigger movement to reverse the change are you alt-aholics. This discussion can't even gain traction outside of here.

As far as I can tell, most of the people freaking out about this are the ones with 18+ characters who spend all their time grinding crafting writs. It's a comically small minority.

Pretty much everyone else can just spend a couple hours in Cyrodiil and be done with it, instead of wasting hours on the forums complaining.

Nestor · August 2020

Tandor wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

You mean the people arguing that the changes are bad aren't all reading from the same shared experinces too?

Fixed that for you.

Shared experiences that suck for everyone is not a script.

I've no problem with your replacing "script" with "shared experiences", but "everyone"? Not even close.

Everyone who complains.

Nestor · August 2020

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Recent wrote: »

I'm curious to know if the majority player base are even being considered when making these huge changes. In my personal opinion i think it's hugely unfair to be robbed of a skill many of my pve alts had for years btw. I have 13 level 50s and i dont even what to look at what ones lost their rapids.

This is extremely unfair to take something i did training quests for and just change it on me without my consent.
Such a LOW act on zos behalf to manipulate players to buy the pvp skill lines so all for the store sad

Bahahahahahahahahhaha

"many players" = only a handful of people here on the forums.

No one outside of here cares that much if at all about the change. And the only people that seem to think they can turn this into a bigger movement to reverse the change are you alt-aholics. This discussion can't even gain traction outside of here.

As far as I can tell, most of the people freaking out about this are the ones with 18+ characters who spend all their time grinding crafting writs. It's a comically small minority.

Pretty much everyone else can just spend a couple hours in Cyrodiil and be done with it, instead of wasting hours on the forums complaining.

I have 18 characters, and outside of events that drop motifs, I rarely do a crafting writ, and then only on a character or two. I don't use rapids when doing the writs as it does not save all that much time.

What I do is quest, explore, farm, run delves, dungeons and rp. Every character i played had Rapids and used going anywhere in the game.

None of my characters who are Stamina have vigor.

So, yea, i am pissed. This change sucks. I have stopped logging in, even for housekeeping activities. Yes, me who was a huge fan of this game. I am spending my gaming time now playing other games.

@ZOS_RichLambert

Swordancer · August 2020

I am happy with the changes. Just performance updates doesn't work at all.

Tandor · August 2020

Nestor wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

You mean the people arguing that the changes are bad aren't all reading from the same shared experinces too?

Fixed that for you.

Shared experiences that suck for everyone is not a script.

I've no problem with your replacing "script" with "shared experiences", but "everyone"? Not even close.

Everyone who complains.

Thanks for the clarification.

Perhaps those who are happy with the changes are also basing their views on shared experiences.

DarcyMardin · August 2020

esotoon wrote: »

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

It would probably be faster to log into cyrodiil and spend the 15 minutes there getting rapids then it is spending this time on the forums making a post complaining about how you have to spend 15 minutes playing the game to get a skill.

Please show a video of yourself going from rank 2 to rank 5 in the Assault Lines in 15 mins. I'm looking forward to learning from your expertise.

I agree...show me, too. It took me eight hours this week taking one level 50 1000+ CP alt from level 4 assault to level 5.

Heaven help me get my 5 new account level 15, no CP, no skills, no PvP gear alts to assault level 5. All of them were using rapids last week. None of the stamina alts is using vigor now, however.

Nomadic_Atmoran · August 2020

Nestor wrote: »

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »

Recent wrote: »

I'm curious to know if the majority player base are even being considered when making these huge changes. In my personal opinion i think it's hugely unfair to be robbed of a skill many of my pve alts had for years btw. I have 13 level 50s and i dont even what to look at what ones lost their rapids.

This is extremely unfair to take something i did training quests for and just change it on me without my consent.
Such a LOW act on zos behalf to manipulate players to buy the pvp skill lines so all for the store sad

Bahahahahahahahahhaha

"many players" = only a handful of people here on the forums.

No one outside of here cares that much if at all about the change. And the only people that seem to think they can turn this into a bigger movement to reverse the change are you alt-aholics. This discussion can't even gain traction outside of here.

As far as I can tell, most of the people freaking out about this are the ones with 18+ characters who spend all their time grinding crafting writs. It's a comically small minority.

Pretty much everyone else can just spend a couple hours in Cyrodiil and be done with it, instead of wasting hours on the forums complaining.

I have 18 characters, and outside of events that drop motifs, I rarely do a crafting writ, and then only on a character or two. I don't use rapids when doing the writs as it does not save all that much time.

What I do is quest, explore, farm, run delves, dungeons and rp. Every character i played had Rapids and used going anywhere in the game.

None of my characters who are Stamina have vigor.

So, yea, i am pissed. This change sucks. I have stopped logging in, even for housekeeping activities. Yes, me who was a huge fan of this game. I am spending my gaming time now playing other games.

@ZOS_RichLambert

Still an overly vocal minority that ZOS does not need to cater to.

Nyteshade · August 2020

Argumentum ad populem?

an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition must be true because many or most people believe it.

Elsonso · August 2020

Nyteshade wrote: »

Argumentum ad populem?

an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition must be true because many or most people believe it.

Si credere aliquid, necesse est illud esse verum. That is the basis for most arguments around here.

WARchief10K · August 2020

I've never seen a gaming company SEEMINGLY ignore it's players more than ZOS.

Had to cover all my bases, SEEMINGLY.

Take that for what you may. Mods come in here assuming things.

It's a simple fact.

Look at anything, look at the Sonic the Hedgehog movie, people got PEEVED, instantly CARE from the company was directed to fans.

Look at Mass Effect 3 ending, completely redone, for fans.

Look at the SKATE franchise after EA tried to kill it, people still hate EA but EA knew fans loved skate enough to bring it back.

I don't know what is going on for fans here, it seems to be all dollars and cents at the end of the day.

EDIT: This isn't The Last of Us 2 where creative choices were made, this is blatantly screwing with mechanics that have been present for a while AGAIN, not even the first or second time.

It's so obvious that this ties in with the double seater mount, and just overall better finances at the end of the day via crown store lessons for ZOS, not the consumer.

Then you wonder why the "eso family" gets so mad, especially the pvp step children, that get zero attention/love.

barney2525 · August 2020

Sgrug wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Red_Feather wrote: »

The public test server gives an overwhelming amount of feedback on things and most of that feedback is completely ignored.

It feels like PTS patches are a train on rails and just going through the motions of asking for feedback but it'll never change direction.

There is a difference between Being Ignored vs the company listening to the input, then evaluating that input into THEIR concept and vision of the game (Which, by the way, Is the bottom line) and then deciding against using the input.

Just because they say 'No' does Not mean the input was ignored

If there is a flaw in the system, it is that the player does not know Why changes are made.

IMHO

When a business does not give you the reason for a change or lack of change or gives a reason that rings hollow it usually is because telling the customer the real reason would HURT the bottom line.

I dunno

Doing something that some people don't like enough that they will make the effort to say something public about it, and getting no response or explanation - seems to me like that will hurt the bottom line more than if the company says : We changed this because ....

In my experience, people tend to stick with a Company if they know Why things changed - even if they did not like the change.

IMHO

FangOfTheTwoMoons · August 2020

The irony is they thought getting to rank 5 was hard before, it's gonna be even harder with a mount that moves at a slugs pace. Goodluck getting those AP ticks, by the time you reach a keep it's over. Hell I doubt you'd even be able to cap RSS with a big group, they'll flip by the time you move to the next.

Call it was it is; an obvious cash grab. ZOS created a problem and are now selling the solution.

Smile2342 · August 2020

Nestor wrote: »

Smile2342 wrote: »

"Bring glory to your Alliance, your guild, or yourself during the Midyear Mayhem PvP event and you’ll earn double Alliance Points, XP, and unique rewards."

Yes, because Cyrodiil during an event with an increased population is such a good place to be.

Most campaigns I saw listed during the event were very low population and it was easy to run the scouting daily. Its your choice if you want a high population one or not.

Noisivid · August 2020

Smile2342 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Smile2342 wrote: »

"Bring glory to your Alliance, your guild, or yourself during the Midyear Mayhem PvP event and you’ll earn double Alliance Points, XP, and unique rewards."

Yes, because Cyrodiil during an event with an increased population is such a good place to be.

Most campaigns I saw listed during the event were very low population and it was easy to run the scouting daily. Its your choice if you want a high population one or not.

how much AP does a scouting daily give, not much. It's gonna take a long time to get to rank 5 w/scouting missions.

I was in cyro on a populater server last night and managed to get a newer character (still level 50, cp810) from early Rank 3 to Rank 5. It took about 3 hours to do so, I think the biggest AP tick was about 20k to 25k LFG and some reasonably well run groups. Getting to the fights on time was painful, mount was speed 60, stamina 46. Everything got so much better once I had access to Rapids, it was a true Hallelujah!!! moment.

The people in this thread saying things like "you can just LFG and get to rank 5 in half an hour" are just gaslighting. It's possible with a dedicated and organized PvP guild but most people that don't like this change aren't in one of those.

Gythral · August 2020

250 AP per mission, lol, not a viable option!

So far about a weel in BG seems to be the only worthwhile account solution (even if the groupfinder is clueless most of the time (groups of 2 or 3 against 2 of 4))