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Templar Nerfs
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Gorreck✭✭✭WARchief10K wrote: »
It's opinions like these that bring nerfs. Most people use Templars as healers... They aren't overpowered, they're low tier after DKs...WARchief10K wrote: »Templars are overpowered anyways, so bringing them back in line with changes that aren't needed is fine with me.
Templars are overpowered, bringing them back in line with changes that aren't needed is fine with me.
That line would be the bottom line? I'd prefer balance myself.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just wanted to chime in and say I've noticed the same issues with Sweep.
I'm not sure what the point was of adding such an insignificant cast time to the ability anyway.Edited by Jeremy on August 26, 2020 10:06PM1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Could be worse. You could be a Nightblade where your kit is clunky and dodgeable.1 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭Strider__Roshin wrote: »Could be worse. You could be a Nightblade where your kit is clunky and dodgeable.
try to use jabs with light attack weaving during prime time cyro lag4 -
furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭furiouslog wrote: »
Wardens don’t have a good burst heal in their toolkit
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/bursting-vines
Ha! 1403 compared to 18k+ breath of life you are out of your *** mind.
How are you getting 18K? Is that a crit?0 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I need to confirm that the animations look even more desynced after the patch. From the beginning this change was flawed; if you want to sync animation and hits you change the animation, not the hits...Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr2 -
finehair✭✭✭✭Literally one of the strongest class and by far easiest to play even after "nerfs" but still want more.
See you in aoe tests.1 -
Athan1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Templars are easy to play but not the strongest by any means.Athan Atticus Imperial Templar of Shezarr11 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭Templars are worst tier class in pvp for solo, only just above magnecro, what are you even talking about
replace templar with stamcro,stamden any given day.Edited by West93 on August 27, 2020 12:04PM8 -
pklemming✭✭✭✭✭
✭The nerfs reduced dps by a large amount in pve. The increase from .92 to 1 second cast time for jabs (to better match the 1.55s animation??), means you can no longer add a LA within the GCD. Burning light passive works poorly with spears. Potl and PL are almost at the joke point now and Ritual of Retribution... Poor, Ritual of Retiribution. It was useful as it was a hybrid heal and damage. It allowed us to heal whilst not feeling it was a completely useless damage skill
From the tests I have done, magplar is now the weakest mag character in the game. Of course, these are my tests, but I am quite good at sitting in front of a dummy and hitting keys.6 -
akdave0✭✭✭✭furiouslog wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »
Wardens don’t have a good burst heal in their toolkit
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/bursting-vines
Ha! 1403 compared to 18k+ breath of life you are out of your *** mind.
How are you getting 18K? Is that a crit?
Yes, but base is still around 8500. 1767 spell damage, 3000 mag rec. Olo/jorvulds/bogs.
100 blessed 100 elfborn. 24 magicka/44 health. Essence of spell crit pots. Tri-stat food. Powered trait front bar/ precise back bar. It would hit harder if I went full 64 in magicka, but healers shouldn’t be glassy.
Templar is the best for burst heal end game vet hm trials. Warden, while being great support, can’t keep up when crap hits the fan. Granted mine is fun to play in dungeons, but I would never take one in hm content. When I have seen two wardens in, everyone else ran vigor, and a temp was running bol. So get off your knees over wardens people.
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Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭furiouslog wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »
Wardens don’t have a good burst heal in their toolkit
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/bursting-vines
Ha! 1403 compared to 18k+ breath of life you are out of your *** mind.
How are you getting 18K? Is that a crit?
Yes, but base is still around 8500. 1767 spell damage, 3000 mag rec. Olo/jorvulds/bogs.
100 blessed 100 elfborn. 24 magicka/44 health. Essence of spell crit pots. Tri-stat food. Powered trait front bar/ precise back bar. It would hit harder if I went full 64 in magicka, but healers shouldn’t be glassy.
Templar is the best for burst heal end game vet hm trials. Warden, while being great support, can’t keep up when crap hits the fan. Granted mine is fun to play in dungeons, but I would never take one in hm content. When I have seen two wardens in, everyone else ran vigor, and a temp was running bol. So get off your knees over wardens people.
No one is saying that templars don't make great pve healers lol, and also wardens have some of the best healing in PvP, again IN PVP.
Arcit blast allows you to build a very high hp pool and your healing won't be penalized Beacuse of it.
Also most healers in endgame pve don't spam single target burst heals, it's usually stacking hots and buffs/debuff.
I'm glad you shared that your fully healing specced Templar has an 18k breath of life tooltip. It literally mean nothing for offensive pvp builds.
Most builds you'll be lucky to hit 5k breath crits in pvp, while having very little healing over time to back it up.
They literally just nerfed the heal on puncturing sweeps for example.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some people would claim Templars are OP even if they were removed from the game.
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kathandira✭✭✭✭✭
✭All non-templar players see is Jabs, and its healing ability. But they don't realize that it really isn't that strong of an attack.PS4-NA. Breton Templar Healer, Bosmer Stamplar, Breton Magplar, Orsimer StamDK, Dunmer MagDK, Khajiit StamNB, Dunmer MagNB, Argonian Warden Tank, Altmer Magsorc7 -
furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭furiouslog wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »
Wardens don’t have a good burst heal in their toolkit
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/bursting-vines
Ha! 1403 compared to 18k+ breath of life you are out of your *** mind.
How are you getting 18K? Is that a crit?
Yes, but base is still around 8500. 1767 spell damage, 3000 mag rec. Olo/jorvulds/bogs.
100 blessed 100 elfborn. 24 magicka/44 health. Essence of spell crit pots. Tri-stat food. Powered trait front bar/ precise back bar. It would hit harder if I went full 64 in magicka, but healers shouldn’t be glassy.
Templar is the best for burst heal end game vet hm trials. Warden, while being great support, can’t keep up when crap hits the fan. Granted mine is fun to play in dungeons, but I would never take one in hm content. When I have seen two wardens in, everyone else ran vigor, and a temp was running bol. So get off your knees over wardens people.
You said Warden didn't have a good burst heal. That statement is not true. It's the go to for vSS tomb healer precisely because of busting vines and the ability to target the tomb sacrifice. I checked on my templar and warden with same sets and mundus, and the base for BV is higher than BOL. It's fine to say that you prefer BOL for your play style, but to say Warden does not have a good burst heal at all is completely wrong. It does. And if you are having trouble playing a warden when the "crap hits the fan", I'd suggest that it's more related to your ability to heal on a warden than it is the class toolkit itself.4 -
akdave0✭✭✭✭furiouslog wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »
Wardens don’t have a good burst heal in their toolkit
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/bursting-vines
Ha! 1403 compared to 18k+ breath of life you are out of your *** mind.
How are you getting 18K? Is that a crit?
Yes, but base is still around 8500. 1767 spell damage, 3000 mag rec. Olo/jorvulds/bogs.
100 blessed 100 elfborn. 24 magicka/44 health. Essence of spell crit pots. Tri-stat food. Powered trait front bar/ precise back bar. It would hit harder if I went full 64 in magicka, but healers shouldn’t be glassy.
Templar is the best for burst heal end game vet hm trials. Warden, while being great support, can’t keep up when crap hits the fan. Granted mine is fun to play in dungeons, but I would never take one in hm content. When I have seen two wardens in, everyone else ran vigor, and a temp was running bol. So get off your knees over wardens people.
No one is saying that templars don't make great pve healers lol, and also wardens have some of the best healing in PvP, again IN PVP.
Arcit blast allows you to build a very high hp pool and your healing won't be penalized Beacuse of it.
Also most healers in endgame pve don't spam single target burst heals, it's usually stacking hots and buffs/debuff.
I'm glad you shared that your fully healing specced Templar has an 18k breath of life tooltip. It literally mean nothing for offensive pvp builds.
Most builds you'll be lucky to hit 5k breath crits in pvp, while having very little healing over time to back it up.
They literally just nerfed the heal on puncturing sweeps for example.
Healing in pvp should be support, not rolling in one healer for a Zerg. Then a temp would be in there anyways. Jabs getting nerfed on the healing stinks but why would you take a magplar in pvp? Stamplars hit much hard with biting jabs.
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akdave0✭✭✭✭furiouslog wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »furiouslog wrote: »
Wardens don’t have a good burst heal in their toolkit
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/bursting-vines
Ha! 1403 compared to 18k+ breath of life you are out of your *** mind.
How are you getting 18K? Is that a crit?
Yes, but base is still around 8500. 1767 spell damage, 3000 mag rec. Olo/jorvulds/bogs.
100 blessed 100 elfborn. 24 magicka/44 health. Essence of spell crit pots. Tri-stat food. Powered trait front bar/ precise back bar. It would hit harder if I went full 64 in magicka, but healers shouldn’t be glassy.
Templar is the best for burst heal end game vet hm trials. Warden, while being great support, can’t keep up when crap hits the fan. Granted mine is fun to play in dungeons, but I would never take one in hm content. When I have seen two wardens in, everyone else ran vigor, and a temp was running bol. So get off your knees over wardens people.
You said Warden didn't have a good burst heal. That statement is not true. It's the go to for vSS tomb healer precisely because of busting vines and the ability to target the tomb sacrifice. I checked on my templar and warden with same sets and mundus, and the base for BV is higher than BOL. It's fine to say that you prefer BOL for your play style, but to say Warden does not have a good burst heal at all is completely wrong. It does. And if you are having trouble playing a warden when the "crap hits the fan", I'd suggest that it's more related to your ability to heal on a warden than it is the class toolkit itself.
I said they don’t have a good burst heal comparatively to Templars. I know how to play the class. Show me a clip with two wardens not relying on combat prayer and radiant and orbs, and I will relent. Yes, wardens have great HOTs but not much else without heavy reliance on Resto staff abilities. You know dang well Templar outperforms you just want to be contrary.
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furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I said they don’t have a good burst heal comparatively to Templars. I know how to play the class. Show me a clip with two wardens not relying on combat prayer and radiant and orbs, and I will relent. Yes, wardens have great HOTs but not much else without heavy reliance on Resto staff abilities. You know dang well Templar outperforms you just want to be contrary.
When people come on these forums and spread misinformation, yes, I will go out of my way to correct them. I'm not going to contradict you just to argue, my point is that what you said was completely untrue, and you have morphed your initial statement into a general opinion about the two classes, which I will not argue with because it is just your opinion.
I will point out that when looking at the healer leaderboards on ESOLogs, wardens are often ranked first in trials, and there is roughly equal representation of wardens and templars, with necros being a distant third. So your opinion on the class appears also to be contradicted by data. But again, I'm not going to argue with your opinion, I'm just going to point out that your statement regarding warden burst heals is totally wrong, and the reason that I bother correcting you is because I don't like it when people state blatant untruths in public discussions when those discussions have the potential to influence people searching for useful information. Be better than that.
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akdave0✭✭✭✭
Well then I stand corrected. But at the end of the day, unless you’re getting paid to play it’s just a game. Having played both classes I shared my view, not blatant mistruths, just my observation. My words will have no sway in the end, if someone wants to play an argonian nightblade healer, that’s their choice. The only reason wardens are top of logs is because they are relegated to group heals while them temps to do the heavy lifting, you have a temp you know that is fact. Wardens are flavor of the month type healers and players usually go back to Templar. We can go round and a round, the conversation will end the same.furiouslog wrote: »
I said they don’t have a good burst heal comparatively to Templars. I know how to play the class. Show me a clip with two wardens not relying on combat prayer and radiant and orbs, and I will relent. Yes, wardens have great HOTs but not much else without heavy reliance on Resto staff abilities. You know dang well Templar outperforms you just want to be contrary.
When people come on these forums and spread misinformation, yes, I will go out of my way to correct them. I'm not going to contradict you just to argue, my point is that what you said was completely untrue, and you have morphed your initial statement into a general opinion about the two classes, which I will not argue with because it is just your opinion.
I will point out that when looking at the healer leaderboards on ESOLogs, wardens are often ranked first in trials, and there is roughly equal representation of wardens and templars, with necros being a distant third. So your opinion on the class appears also to be contradicted by data. But again, I'm not going to argue with your opinion, I'm just going to point out that your statement regarding warden burst heals is totally wrong, and the reason that I bother correcting you is because I don't like it when people state blatant untruths in public discussions when those discussions have the potential to influence people searching for useful information. Be better than that.
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PrimusNephilim✭✭✭✭✭well there's some good news (not)....good going ZOS, screwing up more classes as we roll on through...who's next? a death kill to Wardens?2
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furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Well then I stand corrected. But at the end of the day, unless you’re getting paid to play it’s just a game. Having played both classes I shared my view, not blatant mistruths, just my observation. My words will have no sway in the end, if someone wants to play an argonian nightblade healer, that’s their choice. The only reason wardens are top of logs is because they are relegated to group heals while them temps to do the heavy lifting, you have a temp you know that is fact. Wardens are flavor of the month type healers and players usually go back to Templar. We can go round and a round, the conversation will end the same.
My view is that the wardens vs templars as healers comes down to situational context. I prefer to play as a templar when I heal in general because it's easier and very brute force compared to wardens, which are more nuanced and complex, and who are required to provide their class debuffs in addition to heals. But honestly, if I am in PvP or a dungeon, either can work just fine.
In all the trials I've ever run, we have needed both in the group to maximize our healing and damage potential, but they are doing different things that play to their strengths and how their skills accommodate the group and the trial mechanics. I don't see them as the flavor of the month. Unless ZOS changes their skill trees significantly, I figure wardens are here to stay as healers.
FWIW, I appreciate the civil discussion. As far as the thread's original topic, templar healing has not really been nerfed, and templars are still great healers.Templar damage is apparently no longer viable for endgame unless you are in the top 10th percentile of endgame players. My magplar is likely going to be forced to be replaced by another class in my trial group if I can't solve a new build and rotation that works. Even though dummy parses look fine on it (but are still low relative to other classes), the changes they made considerably reduce damage in real game situations. I know some of those nerfs were made because of PvP, but it's too much and it's killed the class viability in trials as a damage dealer. I'm the only person in my guild that brought it to trials this past week. Everyone else who ran it last patch already switched to other classes. Is that trend because of public opinion, or because it's a real problem? I guess we'll see how many magplars are on the trial leaderboards in a month.
Edited by furiouslog on August 27, 2020 4:20PM1 -
maxchaos92✭✭Guys my only class is borked now,i play templar from 1,5 year and i have others 7 dds but i only loved magplar,always competing for pve dps with other classes,never disappointed even when magdk was op,but now idk if i Will play anymore,i feel like i Will not be competitive not because of me but because other's decision,i already stop subbing 5-6 month ago,but keeping play,now i don't think i Will enjoy it anymore,i don't want to learn a new class again,waiting for better time3
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TheLastZendai✭✭✭Yeah, I thought I would chime in here, too.
There was a time my Templar build was doing well over 20k DPS, almost 30k DPS at one time. I've been playing my Resto Staff/Aedric Spear combo character for 3 years now. A powerful build! I was cleaning house in PvE, and won 8 out of 10 PvP duels, usually. Then I went away for a couple months and came back.
Now, someone recently challenged me on my build after a failed duo attempt at a dungeon. So, I took a closer look. Tested my DPS capacity and looked around online. Man, talk about depressing. I'm topping DPS at 16k now. Aedric spear took some big hits. I used to be doing almost 2.8k each attack to primary target ( it used to be damage per jab, and I was doing just over 900 damage per jab). Then, I took a look, and now there is no more "per jab" damage, just a total one-time damage of 1.8k. Down from 2.7k
This first happened to me in World of Warcraft when they totally nixed Mage-Tanks. I was very successful at playing my Mage-Tank. I usually carried dungeon groups, fighting the end-bosses solo while other dead party members made their way back to the fight. I couldn't beat the bosses, but they couldn't beat me either, so I could carry the fight until dead players revived. Then they chucked mage-tanks out the window, and after having played a mage-tank there for 4 years, you can imagine how I felt. All that money wasted to have something I loved about the game get killed. So much for that gaming investment.
And now this. My Restoplar killed. Thanks for ruining my investment in your game, ESO. Would you like to give me a large paper cut & pour lemon juice on it while you're at it? I'm seriously considering my options now. I may leave MMOs altogether after this, and never play them again. Its just not worth it, it seems. This is the best MMO I ever played in over 20 years of playing them. Really miffed and depressed about this. This game is my beloved hobby.
Valorion the Lightbringer, Beacons of Anu"Power wielded without wisdom is power used in weakness."7 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Last patch a magplar won a dueling tournament against a stamplar. Idk if that will still be the case this patch but to say Templar has been bad for years just isn’t accurate at least not in PvP.Edited by Fur_like_snow on August 27, 2020 7:07PM2 -
Gorreck✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Last patch a magplar won a dueling tournament against a stamplar. Idk if that will still be the case this patch but to say Templar has been bad for years just isn’t accurate at least not in PvP.
Templar was nerfed for years (literally), it then got a few patches with buffs and then one patch where (the DOT patch) where the ability to cleanse was absolutely super-powerful (but then DOTs were nerfed to a lower level than they started the very next patch).
The last few patches have nibbled away at Templars again and this patch has taken chunks out of all Templar builds.6 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Last patch a magplar won a dueling tournament against a stamplar. Idk if that will still be the case this patch but to say Templar has been bad for years just isn’t accurate at least not in PvP.
Templars were strong in duels Beacuse Backlash was overtuned, and 1v1 the lack of strong healing didn't make much difference, also burning light made for great unpredictable burst.
That's all gone now though.1 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭Dueling under tournament rules is completely different environment, you not gonna tell that stamnecro to drop malubeth + mortal coil in open world cyro, because it was not allowed in duels.
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maxchaos92✭✭CaptRavenous wrote: »
And now this. My Restoplar killed. Thanks for ruining my investment in your game, ESO. Would you like to give me a large paper cut & pour lemon juice on it while you're at it? I'm seriously considering my options now. I may leave MMOs altogether after this, and never play them again. Its just not worth it, it seems. This is the best MMO I ever played in over 20 years of playing them. Really miffed and depressed about this. This game is my beloved hobby.
Same feeling,doing this kind of *** to player that are loyal to the game just make them quit,i'm thinking to quit this game and stop the agony instead of being nervous everytime a patch or a nerf income,better go play ms Flight simulator for now2 -
evoniee✭✭✭✭i think they make burning light 1 sec so you can only proc it with puncturing strike and the ult0 -
stefj68✭✭✭✭✭furiouslog wrote: »Lost about 3K dps on my parse (78K-75K), but in trials and dungeons the changes have forced me to adjust my bars and morph skills which gets me less performance out of my templar in real game situations, which has made the class my worst alternative in all contexts apart from healing. RIP magplar until the next patch, I guess.
only 3k... i lost at least 10k
i have to slot 2 heals now thanks to ZOS
0