Rapids is gated behind a medical condition: Anxiety

dsalter · August 2020

the real issue is that these abilities work outside of PvP.
if they were strict PvP abilities, rework a fighters guild ability to = current Vigor, rework current Vigor to something PvP focused and make Rapids only work in Cyrodiil.

nobody would feel "forced" to PvP anymore for stuff thats useful in PvE because it only works in PvP.

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

dsalter wrote: »

the real issue is that these abilities work outside of PvP.
if they were strict PvP abilities, rework a fighters guild ability to = current Vigor, rework current Vigor to something PvP focused and make Rapids only work in Cyrodiil.

nobody would feel "forced" to PvP anymore for stuff thats useful in PvE because it only works in PvP.

Yeah I think it'd make more sense just to have a tab under World or something that people can get them from. Besides as I've pointed out this move is bad for PVP players as well cause well have you tried getting around Cyrodil without rapids? On my main I have a toon maxed out all speed and everything and rapids and it still takes me forever to get anywhere in Cyrodil.

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

thorwyn wrote: »

I have empathy for every mental and physical issue. In fact, I'm suffering from social anxiety myself and went through a depression during my life. That being said: this is a computer game. And the designers are making design decisions. It's simply impossible to create a game like ESO and take each and every medical or mental condition into consideration, be it anxiety, arthosis, gambling addiction, phobias, deafness, blindness or lacking reflexes because of old age.
We can discuss the reasoning behind the rapid maneuvre change from a design pov and criticize ZOS for their decisions, but bringing individual conditions into the discussion will get us nowhere.

Yeah but that being said even if we don't put the anxiety and such into it seems like a bad decision. As I've said in numerous threads mounts start out slow as hell. And the main way to level the pvp line is cyrodil. And cyrodil takes ages to get around especially without rapids. So they're making it harder for people to even level the line.

barney2525 · August 2020

Another point of view

Everyone posting here is well familiar with the skills. But many are making the mistake that since they are skills you know and use, they are skills everyone knows and uses. And I know for a Fact this is Not the case.

I Always do the tutorial on Every new character I make - just for the skill points and xp. And if a town is open I will do the town quests as well as the tutorial.

But up until a couple months ago I never looked real hard at those skills. I heard about Vigor being very important, but when I looked at it, it was going to take too much PvP for my liking to get it, so I ignored it. I had never even Looked at Rapids. When I travel I like a fast mount but I also collect every last node I can find. Thats a whole lot of stop and go. A couple months ago I tried out Rapids for the first time. Its useful IF you are simply trying to get from point A to point B, but if you want to stop along the way, it's pointless. I can sprint with my slow mount well enough to cover barren areas.

And there are a lot of PvE players like myself who do a lot of node farming. In short, Rapids is only important to a select play-style. Same with Vigor. I've still never had that or tried it out. I Was under the impression those PvP skills were only useful for PvP, so I - and I am sure many players like me - never even really looked at them.

ZOS_Lunar · August 2020

Greetings!

We've removed a few posts from this thread as they violated our rules on baiting. We understand that everyone has their own opinions they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · August 2020

OP, I have anxiety.

And PvP has helped me work past it to some extent. I use it as exposure-therapy in some respects.

I've seen people use mental health as a get-out-of-jail card in games before, and as someone with so many conditions that have actually been diagnosed, these threads sicken me.

I don't know about you but I want to be given no differential treatment because of my illness.

Threads like this do not help that dream, as this kind of attitude extends far beyond video game forums.

I see the point you are making. I am directly affected by it.

And that's why I disagree with your OP in totality.

VaranisArano · August 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

As far as having anxiety over having to PvP to get it, it's in the Alliance War > Assault skill tree, so of course you have to PvP to get it. It may be convenient to use in other situations, but it's still a PvP skill.

But you didn't have to PVP before this change.

You had to queue up for a PVP zone, run around in the safe areas (or almost certainly safe as long as your gate wasn't open, in the case of the scroll temples) and turn in a quest to get Rapids. Or, you could just collect enough AP from daily login rewards since the amount is low enough.

NOW, you have to run the risk of actual PVP, even if you just buy repair kits for gold and endlessly repair the walls of your home keeps with a nervous eye on zone chat and the resources to make sure no one is coming to attack the keep you are working on.

The "Of course you have to PVP to get it" just wasn't true. Its not true of Vigor now, with the switch.

Of course people are annoyed that they NOW have to PVP if they want to earn back something that originally took no PVP to earn. (Or buy it from the Crown Store, which is another valid frustration.)

Katahdin · August 2020

SydneyGrey wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

The sky is not falling because it will take a few extra minutes to collect the skyshards in a map in a video game....A VIDEO GAME!
I started playing in beta and leveled my first 2 or 3 characters without rapids. They all got leveled just fine.
With all the real problems in the world going on right now, I can't agree that this is the big deal people are making it out to be.

You might be ok with going slow, but not everyone likes to play Horse Simulator for longer than they need to.
But if you want to see why people are complaining, start a new character and then attempt to do the entire Psijic Skill line without Rapids.
Good luck.

Nice try. Been here since beta. I have leveled 25+ characters.

Yes a slow horse is annoying. It sucks, I get it but I just deal with it until I get the horse speed upgraded. This is not the hair pulling problem people are making it out to be because they have to rush through every freaking thing.

I don't do Summerset on a lowbie anyway because I prefer level by going around every map killing world bosses and doing dolmens even on a slow as molasses horse.

The only place Rapids is needed is Cyrodiil. I wish they would remove the stupid skill from the game completely, and add it as a buff to battle spirit for everyone. Then increase the starting mount speed in PvE by 10%

ChaosWotan · August 2020

Getting AP in Cyro is easy without any fighting at all. First, often look at the map to see when a keep nearby is under attack. Ride to that keep. Go in stealth and hide in the background until the door or wall is down. Pop an invisibility potion and sneak into the keep. Hide in a corner until the other players have taken the keep. You can even hide outside the keep, about 10 meters from the walls, and you will get 6K AP or more when others have captured the flags inside.

Reduce the text in chat so that you see no comments from other players. Azurah addon can be used to reduce the size of each HUD element until you can't see the name of any players.

Turn down the sound in the game and put on some relaxing music instead.

Find a friend with rapids and let him/her give you a boost when riding. Send me a PM and we can take keeps in the way described above, until you get rapids.

SilverBride · August 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

As far as having anxiety over having to PvP to get it, it's in the Alliance War > Assault skill tree, so of course you have to PvP to get it. It may be convenient to use in other situations, but it's still a PvP skill.

But you didn't have to PVP before this change.

And now you do. Just because people figured out they could get this PvP skill without actually PvPing before the change, and figured out they could use it anywhere, doesn't mean it's not a PvP skill. And as such it's not unreasonable that it should take PvP to earn it.

In my opinion, getting this PvP skill without actually PvPing, then using it out in the world, which was not its intended purpose, borders on exploiting. Maybe this was one reason for this change.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Of course people are annoyed that they NOW have to PVP if they want to earn back something that originally took no PVP to earn. (Or buy it from the Crown Store, which is another valid frustration.)

People are annoyed over a lot of changes, but that is the nature of an MMO. Things change.

But you just gave a reasonable solution. If you feel you have to have this skill, and you have too much anxiety to PvP, buy it from the Crown Store. I would rather not spend real money for things in game either, but I have when I wanted something bad enough.

Syldras · August 2020

Someone here wrote that if you have a medical issue of some kind, you'll always have disadvantages in gaming and can't expect game designers to take your needs into consideration. Well, actually ZOS does, and quite well. At least they try to keep dyschromatopsia in mind, and most riddles involving sound have also color or light signals you can use instead.

Hallothiel · August 2020

Rarely use rapids outside Cyrodiil. Even on chars where speed not maxed out as never really rush anywhere. Too many nodes.

Even when chasing things - for some reason my sparkle kitty goes so damn fast it’s almost out of control. So rapids not necessarily necessary. And if in a group, only a couple need it as is shared.

But do use vigor on stam characters.

And pvp used to make me anxious. But got used to it by starting with building up walls & defending keeps, often dying valiantly whilst waiting for others to come & help. Then got more confident, joined a lovely guild full of mad idiots & now love it.

Sometimes now I don’t even die that much.

So take a deep slow breath & take a gentle dip. You might find you like it! 😉

ChaosWotan · August 2020

Cyro is generally a very friendly place. It's PvP for people who like horse riding across the country and fire things at doors. It's therefore often called PvD: PvDooring.

And almost everybody is quick to resurrect you when killed.

Cyro is very different from BG and vet trials. It's not competitive at all. Unless you join a major Cyro guild in constant battle with another train guild. Even then you can keep up by always sticking very close to the crown.

VaranisArano · August 2020

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

As far as having anxiety over having to PvP to get it, it's in the Alliance War > Assault skill tree, so of course you have to PvP to get it. It may be convenient to use in other situations, but it's still a PvP skill.

But you didn't have to PVP before this change.

And now you do. Just because people figured out they could get this PvP skill without actually PvPing before the change, and figured out they could use it anywhere, doesn't mean it's not a PvP skill. And as such it's not unreasonable that it should take PvP to earn it.

In my opinion, getting this PvP skill without actually PvPing, then using it out in the world, which was not its intended purpose, borders on exploiting. Maybe this was one reason for this change.

Don't be disingenuous by claiming it borders on exploiting. That's ridiculous.

The quest I described? That's the introductory quest for Cyrodiil, which was designed to give you enough AP to get the skill that lets you get around Cyrodiil.

Except now, it gives you enough AP to get Vigor.

Not an exploit. Its quite literally working as ZOS intends, except they swapped Rapids for Vigor. So its clearly not the reason for the change.

Unless you wanna claim its now bordering on an exploit to get Vigor using the exact same methods as Rapids and then use it in dungeons, in which case, whelp, ZOS clearly disagrees with you.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · August 2020

Syldras wrote: »

Someone here wrote that if you have a medical issue of some kind, you'll always have disadvantages in gaming and can't expect game designers to take your needs into consideration. Well, actually ZOS does, and quite well. At least they try to keep dyschromatopsia in mind, and most riddles involving sound have also color or light signals you can use instead.

There's only so much they can do as a dev. But there are limits and people do get left behind. As you say, ESO is extremely inclusive.

Here's the thing. This is an online forum where next to no vetting is needed to claim an illness. Heck, I'd understand if you took my previous post with a grain of salt. That's just basic online precaution.

Of course my post also refutes the OP. Why would I lie for no gain? I will leave that for the individual reading this to decide.

SilverBride · August 2020

I should probably quit reading this thread, because some of the posts are starting to really irritate me.

As I said earlier, you need to keep this in perspective. Moving faster for a few seconds is not necessary for playing ESO. In fact, I never even heard of this skill before I saw all these threads popping up, yet somehow I've managed to play successfully, and have a lot of fun doing it.

You don't have to travel around super fast everywhere. Maybe the real source of your anxiety is always being in a desperate hurry. In that case slowing down a bit may be what you really need.

Someone else said that rapids is really only useful in Cyrodiil, and should only be active there. I agree with this 100%. It should never have been usable outside PvP.

I think what irritates me most are the posts that act like players with anxiety over PvPing are being denied a basic human right. You are not being denied access to food, or shelter, or healthcare. You just can't easily get a PvP skill without PvPing now. A skill, by the way, that is intended for use in PvP.

This change doesn't deny you anything. Your unwillingness to find a way to get your supposed "necessary for quality of life" skill is a problem you are making for yourself. People have given some helpful tips for how to minimize the chance of having a negative experience while PvPing, but you are unwilling to give that a chance. Or you can just buy the skill in the Crown Store.

I wish they would just remove this skill all together.

Eliahnus · August 2020

So OP, people who do not like PvP are sick people ?
You offend all PVE-only players and then you ask to stay civil ?

CMDR_Un1k0rn · August 2020

Eliahnus wrote: »

So OP, people who do not like PvP are sick people ?
You offend all PVE-only players and then you ask to stay civil ?

It's not even that mate. It's a guilt-trip thread.

The only people he's offending are those such as me who actually have to deal with mental illness every day, and are sick of having it pulled as a sympathy card for the most trivial of reasons.

And yes, this is a situation where me being offended is perfectly warranted. I just want to be seen as an equal on a human level.

Syldras · August 2020

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Heck, I'd understand if you took my previous post with a grain of salt. That's just basic online precaution.

Actually I wasn't replying to you and can't even remember what you wrote. I checked it again, the post I was commenting on was made by thorwyn.

Eliahnus wrote: »

So OP, people who do not like PvP are sick people ?

Where did they say that everyone who doesn't PvP is sick? I don't PvP, don't suffer from social anxiety, but I don't feel offended because someone mentions that anxiety is a reason for some people not to PvP?!

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

The only people he's offending are those such as me who actually have to deal with mental illness every day, and are sick of having it pulled as a sympathy card for the most trivial of reasons.

Where are they pulling a sympathy card? They were writing about what difficulties they personally have with PvP because of their illness and searching for solutions, asking questions how they could get rapids nonetheless. And some people seemed to have understood it, and replied with helpful hints how to earn points in Cyrodiil without having to fight much.

Noisivid · August 2020

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

So OP, people who do not like PvP are sick people ?
You offend all PVE-only players and then you ask to stay civil ?

It's not even that mate. It's a guilt-trip thread.

The only people he's offending are those such as me who actually have to deal with mental illness every day, and are sick of having it pulled as a sympathy card for the most trivial of reasons.

And yes, this is a situation where me being offended is perfectly warranted. I just want to be seen as an equal on a human level.

@Eliahnus That's not what the OP is saying at all, They are saying that of people that avoid PvP there are some that do so to avoid exacerbating anxiety issues. Then they simply asked how those specific people were dealing with the Rapids change. That's the OP in a nut-shell, nothing more.

@CMDR_Un1k0rn I don't see where the OP is using the post as a "sympathy card" or guilt-tripping anyone. I actually went back and re-read the post. That absolutely was not the OPs intent now do I think it's even implied in the OP. I've dealt with "major depressive disorder, recurrent" "generalized anxiety" etc... blah blah blah, for my entire life, definitely related to the late diagnosed "high-functioning autism" So yeah, I know about being pissed of at people that use it as a crutch and the people that try to treat me as a non-functional "special case"

I just went back and re-re-read the post and I'm absolutely sure that this is not a guilt-tripping, sympathy seeking thread, or one saying that people that don't like PvP are "sick"

The OP is simply asking how others that deal specifically with anxiety issues have dealt with the Rapids changes. I think thats a valid and for some people needed discussion.

In the end I personally think that it's going to come down to "suck it up and grind out the AP while listening to some chill-out music" or just going without Rapids. I don't see any middle way. If anyone is thinking ZOS is changing it back, they're wrong.

here's hoping I don't come off like an arse..

Integral1900 · August 2020

Syldras wrote: »

Gaggin wrote: »

Anxiety and phobia arent the same things

I'm not sure about the exact terminology, as I'm not a native English speaker. So (social) anxiety is not the same as (social) phobia?

Social phobia is a general reaction to a broad range of social situations, it can be very debilitating but will often respond well to mild exposure to the stimulus, building up resistance

Social anxiety is a different beast. Tense or confrontational situations such as competition or jobs such as customer service can result in explosive outbursts from otherwise calm or passive people. If sufficiently provoked the reaction can be extreme to the point of self harm. This is normally housed in the subconscious mind, often focused in the part of the brain responsible for memory and self preservation. It can sometimes react well if given a little exposure but often this simply will not work. Personally if you try to imagine the Id monster from the movie forbidden planet you’ll be on the right lines 😐

Normally social anxiety is the result of long term psychological damage and can be difficult to cure but responds well to careful management, for me this means pvp is literally like going for a walk in a metaphorical minefield.

CMDR_Un1k0rn · August 2020

Noisivid wrote: »

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

So OP, people who do not like PvP are sick people ?
You offend all PVE-only players and then you ask to stay civil ?

It's not even that mate. It's a guilt-trip thread.

The only people he's offending are those such as me who actually have to deal with mental illness every day, and are sick of having it pulled as a sympathy card for the most trivial of reasons.

And yes, this is a situation where me being offended is perfectly warranted. I just want to be seen as an equal on a human level.

@Eliahnus That's not what the OP is saying at all, They are saying that of people that avoid PvP there are some that do so to avoid exacerbating anxiety issues. Then they simply asked how those specific people were dealing with the Rapids change. That's the OP in a nut-shell, nothing more.

@CMDR_Un1k0rn I don't see where the OP is using the post as a "sympathy card" or guilt-tripping anyone. I actually went back and re-read the post. That absolutely was not the OPs intent now do I think it's even implied in the OP. I've dealt with "major depressive disorder, recurrent" "generalized anxiety" etc... blah blah blah, for my entire life, definitely related to the late diagnosed "high-functioning autism" So yeah, I know about being pissed of at people that use it as a crutch and the people that try to treat me as a non-functional "special case"

I just went back and re-re-read the post and I'm absolutely sure that this is not a guilt-tripping, sympathy seeking thread, or one saying that people that don't like PvP are "sick"

The OP is simply asking how others that deal specifically with anxiety issues have dealt with the Rapids changes. I think thats a valid and for some people needed discussion.

In the end I personally think that it's going to come down to "suck it up and grind out the AP while listening to some chill-out music" or just going without Rapids. I don't see any middle way. If anyone is thinking ZOS is changing it back, they're wrong.

here's hoping I don't come off like an arse..

Don't worry, you don't come across that way at all IMO.

I might come across that way myself right now, to some. But like I say. Like you say.

I am just getting tired of these things being brought up in regards to a video game. It gives many people on the outside that mental illness = petty.

Alright, I re-read it myself. You might be right. Might...

I'll bow out of this thread, give the OP my apologies, and move on.

But I do stand by my overall view that most threads citing mental illness as a reason for change to be entirely fictitious. Maybe not this thread, but we've all seen them before, such as the examples you gave.

Nomadic_Atmoran · August 2020

Hallothiel wrote: »

Rarely use rapids outside Cyrodiil. Even on chars where speed not maxed out as never really rush anywhere. Too many nodes.

Even when chasing things - for some reason my sparkle kitty goes so damn fast it’s almost out of control. So rapids not necessarily necessary. And if in a group, only a couple need it as is shared.

But do use vigor on stam characters.

And pvp used to make me anxious. But got used to it by starting with building up walls & defending keeps, often dying valiantly whilst waiting for others to come & help. Then got more confident, joined a lovely guild full of mad idiots & now love it.

Sometimes now I don’t even die that much.

So take a deep slow breath & take a gentle dip. You might find you like it! 😉

Niche Players that likely move a lot of crafting material on their guild traders. They do things with this ability that the average player does not use it for. Creating as many alts as possible so they can focus down writ and resource farming. And they are annoyed that they cant simply jump into a quiet server and quickly get their horse crack for the new crafting mule.

The average PvPer or newbie PvPer is not going to see an impact from this unless they insist on creating alts and being a loner in Cyrodiil.

ChaosWotan · August 2020

Cyro got so much lag that even if you have anxiety about losing, you can just blame it on bad ping. If you don't have anxiety about visiting one of the major PvE trading centers then no reason to have anxiety in the horse riding sim aka Cyro. Just focus on kicking in doors and forget about everyone around you.

With LUiExtended addon you can set the target hp bar to show the color of each class, plus their HP nr, while reducing all other player info until you can't read their names. Then you can just pretend they are NPCs.

caeliusstarbreaker · August 2020

Is this thread real life?

Noisivid · August 2020

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Is this thread real life?

Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide

Ackwalan · August 2020

This thread is offensive to people with real medical issues. Are you going to claim PvP gave you cancer?

ZOS_Lunar · August 2020

Greetings!

As this thread has run its course and is no longer constructive, we are now going to close it. We always encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are respectfully stated when doing so. We would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the Community Rules we have in place.

Thank you for your understanding.