PizzaCat82 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

There is no difference between using LazyWrit, and pre-crafting all the stuff that's usually required and just keeping it in your inventory. Some people do that. I do it for some writs, just not all. It's all time-saving in the end, only in one version you pre-craft and keep your inventory loaded, and in another you use LazyWrit, but the end result is the same.

There's nothing particularly abusive about it.

The 6 - 10 hours I spend pre-crafting would beg so hard to differ on that matter.

How pre-crafting take 5 seconds for each item you can craft in bulk now without add-one so you can make say 15 daggers in the same time it take to make 1

You have no idea the time it can take on console with 18 master crafting alts. The loading screens alone add up to probably an hour. There's at least 9 "processing" times each of the 5 (ench, jewelry, blacksmith, cloth, wood) that add up each character. Even with Multi-craft it takes forever.

Not to mention the 70 or 80 inventory spaces it takes up on every character. Craft bags dont help with gear.

Even using the app the loading screens still happen if you are running more than one character. The app only works to automate the actions at one crafting station. The player then has to manually go to the next station. The only time difference that matters in the difference when you access the crafting station until the time you close it. On 18 characters it might be an extra twenty minutes?

Yes, but then we just have to get the writs, run to the stations, and turn them in each day. You can't tell me this doesn't save time over crafting for 7 days worth of daily writs.

There a video, from @ BenevolentBowd (I believe). Where he showed that if you have the inventory space (and that is an IF), pre-crafting 6 days or 9 days worth of writs is FASTER than using LWC each day.

You can't count loading screens. That is a system limitation.

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

So automation is ok as long as it requires you to still be there?

Isn't all automation against the TOS? Or is it just depending on what ZOS considers "too automated" this week?

Users are forbidden from using any unapproved third party applications, programs, scripts or any other game modifying mechanic used to change the game play experience on a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax, including the distribution of said programs via ZeniMax services, sites, forums, communities, etc. This would include but is not limited to using or distributing speed hacks, aim bots, mouse controllers, spam bots, automated game play devices, etc. Third party applications are defined as any program, application or script written by an individual, company, corporation, or private party not employed by or contracted to perform services by ZeniMax.

It is odd how some people say macros in PvP are against the TOS but to use macros to craft and other activities is fine. Either it's against the rules to use macros or it isn't. Though considering how widespread macro use is generally on this game (yes even in PvP and PvE) I question whether the developers see them as against the TOS anyway, because it doesn't seem to be enforced.

It'd be nice to get an official statement from them saying whether or not using macros is a violation or not. Because that's really the only thing that is going to settle this question.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

Banana wrote: »

Come join us on PC. You can use it to?

I am on PC already. But I craft on both accounts. I just don't see why its not automating when it literally does the work of crafting for you.

If its ok, why is it not on Console?

I get that addons help fill gaps in the game that improve quality of life. Like the mass construction and deconstruct, and guild trader searching..

But if this automates too much, they'll never port it to consoles and those users will never get those QOL updates.

Add-ons for consoles have to make it pass Microsoft and Sony and with a game like ESO it’s not worth their time to focus it. You take the number of add-on for the game and extra computer power and server lag that adds plus the fact that ESO is far from a console selling game it’s low on the Fs given for console list

You can't just dismiss something as "oh consoles good luck have fun" especially if having it disabled on the PC would cause a huge fit.

Console players are not second class citizens. We're more like Oregon, where we get things, just a few months after you guys.

This seems like something that the devs should take a real hard look at and give it some serious thought.

I’m not saying console players are an lesser. But this is not a ZoS problem that they can fix Sony and Microsoft make their own rules and move at their own speed. It’s why PC always has more add-ons / mods and release updates on PC faster then Consoles they have to go through a second round of testing and approval on console.

To me a lot of add-one should be in the base game.

That's part of the reason I don't like addons being allowed in games. They promote developer apathy and needed features that should be in the game aren't included because they rely instead on third parties to fill the gap.

This game has a lot of that - especially when it comes to making its economy work efficiently. Though at least they did finally add a search feature. It took a few years, but I have to give them credit for that.

AlnilamE wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

So automation is ok as long as it requires you to still be there?

Isn't all automation against the TOS? Or is it just depending on what ZOS considers "too automated" this week?

Users are forbidden from using any unapproved third party applications, programs, scripts or any other game modifying mechanic used to change the game play experience on a ZeniMax Game, Service, forum, or other games or services provided by ZeniMax, including the distribution of said programs via ZeniMax services, sites, forums, communities, etc. This would include but is not limited to using or distributing speed hacks, aim bots, mouse controllers, spam bots, automated game play devices, etc. Third party applications are defined as any program, application or script written by an individual, company, corporation, or private party not employed by or contracted to perform services by ZeniMax.

It is odd how some people say macros in PvP are against the TOS but to use macros to craft and other activities is fine. Either it's against the rules to use macros or it isn't. Though considering how widespread macro use is generally on this game (yes even in PvP and PvE) I question whether the developers see them as against the TOS anyway, because it doesn't seem to be enforced.

It'd be nice to get an official statement from them saying whether or not using macros is a violation or not. Because that's really the only thing that is going to settle this question.

There is a clear distinction between addons (which use the game's API, and therefore can only do things that ZOS allows) and macros (which use external software to automate things).

And yes. Using actual macros is against the TOS and they should probably ban a lot of people for using them.

Insightful. But are you aware of any developer comment or post that has actually come out and said macros are against the rules?

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

There is no difference between using LazyWrit, and pre-crafting all the stuff that's usually required and just keeping it in your inventory. Some people do that. I do it for some writs, just not all. It's all time-saving in the end, only in one version you pre-craft and keep your inventory loaded, and in another you use LazyWrit, but the end result is the same.

There's nothing particularly abusive about it.

The 6 - 10 hours I spend pre-crafting would beg so hard to differ on that matter.

How pre-crafting take 5 seconds for each item you can craft in bulk now without add-one so you can make say 15 daggers in the same time it take to make 1

You have no idea the time it can take on console with 18 master crafting alts. The loading screens alone add up to probably an hour. There's at least 9 "processing" times each of the 5 (ench, jewelry, blacksmith, cloth, wood) that add up each character. Even with Multi-craft it takes forever.

Not to mention the 70 or 80 inventory spaces it takes up on every character. Craft bags dont help with gear.

Even using the app the loading screens still happen if you are running more than one character. The app only works to automate the actions at one crafting station. The player then has to manually go to the next station. The only time difference that matters in the difference when you access the crafting station until the time you close it. On 18 characters it might be an extra twenty minutes?

Yes, but then we just have to get the writs, run to the stations, and turn them in each day. You can't tell me this doesn't save time over crafting for 7 days worth of daily writs.

I admitted it saves time. That is the entire point of the add-on. I took objection to how much time you suggested it changed. I just did writs on two characters one with the add-on one without. The difference in time was a little longer than I thought it would be but so across 18 characters it would be closer to thirty minutes saved if you did not pre-craft.

That aside add-ons are allowed in the game as they are seen as making use of something that already exists in the game and do not give an unfair advantage to game play. Add-ons that crossed the line and did give unfair advantages in the game were dealt with. Some try comparing this ad-on to a weaving macro. Not a fair comparison as a macro doing your light attack weaving for you creates an obvious advantage in game play.

HEY!....you leave my writ crafting addons alone bud!

Seems like the best solution is to make the switch over to the dark side. Go ahead and put that console in the closet...console shmomsole.

Firstmep wrote: »

Unboxer is also a pretty nice addon for opening containers, especially useful if you pvp a lot.

Youre welcome

Unboxer is a really underrated addon.

I wondered about this as well the first time I heard of Lazy Writ.

The comparison to pre-crafting is not a good one, as in pre-crafting you actually have to go through the steps of making the items by hand, which necessarily takes more time and, more importantly, your direct attention. They are qualitatively different exercises for the human involved, if not the underlying steps that are executed. To argue otherwise is a slippery slope that leads ultimately to botting.

I was under the impression that Macros were actually banned, especially in the PvP context. Is this not actually the case? Is everyone free to just Macro their favorite burst combo and go nuts with their resulting much lower skill ceiling? That would certainly explain some things.

In any case, it's clear that this strikes a nerve with the folks using the add-on. Just like when your favorite set or class ability is discussed in a thread, the defensiveness is clear (I am, of course, guilty of this behavior as well). Nobody wants the things that they use to catch the gaze of Sauron's (ZOS) Eye.

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

vestahls wrote: »

There is no difference between using LazyWrit, and pre-crafting all the stuff that's usually required and just keeping it in your inventory. Some people do that. I do it for some writs, just not all. It's all time-saving in the end, only in one version you pre-craft and keep your inventory loaded, and in another you use LazyWrit, but the end result is the same.

There's nothing particularly abusive about it.

The 6 - 10 hours I spend pre-crafting would beg so hard to differ on that matter.

And then there's Master Writ crafter addon.. oof. That's at least 30 minutes a day on them. Imagine doing them in 5 minutes just by running back and forth in your guild hall.

umm... if it takes you this long, you are doing it wrong.

addons or not, every platform can and does have attunable stations they can place inside housing. so that already saves time

so it simply becomes a matter of writing down the items you need to precraft and then imputing information at the crafting station.

so you open up a spread sheet, or heck - make one on a piece of paper. leave a spot for every set, then alphabetize your sets when filling in the spreadsheet. even someone like me, that takes maybe 10-15 minutes (and if you are wondering about where to get set names - google and various ESO fan sites are your friends. personaly, i like to use https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Crafted+Sets as it lets me sort sets alphabetically so i don't even have to think about that, just write down the names ) and. you only have to do this one.

your next step is. make sure you have ALL the writs you want to craft on you. open your inventory - even without advanced filters, you can narrow it down to various consumables only. take your previously made spreadsheet of crafting station. and pencil in (so that you can cross out and then erase) each item (you can see what writ is asking for before you accept it) in an appropriate set section. it will take you a few minutes, depending on how many master writs you are crafting. just keep going down the list of writs in your inventory.

now. go to your nearest guild hall with all the attunable stations (those do exist on consoles) referring to your just made list - manually craft each item. do not accept any writs. do not travel back and forth. craft each item down your list, because there is NOTHING SPECIAL about the addon that makes pre-crafting available, but manually you cannot do that. go from station to station. craft until down. go to your prefer writ turn in location. accept master writ - turn in, aka it now turned into the same process as with using an addon.

does this take longer? yes. however. it does NOT take hours and hours longer. should consoles have acess to speeding up the process, the way they finaly got with base game multicraft (you're welcome console players, without pc creating these addons, developers might have never added this into the game to begin with - thinking that base UI is just fine)? YES ABSOBLOODYLOOTELY. but what writ crafter addons do are NOT botting. you do still need to go from station to station, you need to make sure you have mats/knowledge. etc. they save filing time.

above spreadsheet can be used over and over.

and you can do something very similar with daily writs. they are always on rotation. its not random. the easiest way I found to precraft in case of daily writs was to craft extras of each asked for item and then bank it. do it until rotation is finished and then just go to the bank once it reset and pick up already precrafted items all at once. you COULD if you wanted to carry those on each character. I'd rather still stack them in a bank. even without advanced filters (which SHOULD be base game) you can go tab by tab to narrow down your item search.