I really miss the challenger rewards. It made them fun to work towards. Since frostvaults/malatar on I didn't feel the urge to work towards any of them. But I'm sure ZoS has data on dungeon activity and whether the switch made people more, or less active in them.

What do you mean 'subpar' rewards? Are you implying the Meridian Purified skin is somehow 'less' than the Amber Plasm one since one is just completing vDoM while the other is speedrun/hardmode/nodeath vRoM? They're both skins.

I figure you're probably talking about how the skins are 'lesser' than personalities like the Beast and Worm Wizard, but those are the only two personalities that we got; the earlier DLC hardmode/speedrun/nodeath from Shadows of the Hist or Horns of the Reach also gave skins. Heck, the same from MHK or Scalecaller still give skins, and Bloodroot gave just a hat. And you could also get some personalities (Heroic) by just entering the dungeon, not even doing it.

So far, we've really gotten one cosmetic from each dungeon/trial. Earlier they were for vet speedrun/hardmode/nodeath, and the later ones gave the cosmetic for vet completion and titles for harder content.

I'm kind of against cosmetics being available for very hard content, especially personalities which are useful for RPers. I think the new way is best - some reward for getting through vet, and then titles for getting more complex stuff. You can still show it off, but it also makes it so you don't have to rely on practicing content with a consistent 4-man group over and over until you get it.

I'll admit, I'm a bit biased myself - I've been angling for that Beast personality for a werewolf RP character for ages, and I finally am so close to getting it. But now all I need is the nodeath...and it's very hard to try to convince three other people to grind the same dungeon over and over for days just to practice it. Especially in some dungeons where you're at the mercy of RNG (like the Tarcyr hunts being a bit buggy), or if one of your groupmates hits random disconnects/ping spikes, and your achievement fails because of that...and then they don't want to do the same dungeon over and over again, just so one person can go RP somewhere else...

And as to what others say - I honestly don't have much of a pull to do the earlier dungeons because of the way they're set up. At least the later ones give titles to work towards, but the earliest ones didn't give anything until you got the challenger. If you don't care about the skin, then why bother? At least the later ones even give something afterwards.

I feel that we've gotten a lot of different things based on dungeons. Not every one gave a skin and a personality...
Matter of fact, the later ones actually were more generous with stuff than the earliest dungeons.

I remember hearing somewhere that the reason that we started getting things other than skins in the dungeons was so a character could show off more than one thing at once. There is the fact that the Blood Forged skin from the corwn store probably should have been the challenger reward from BRF instead of a hat, but that way you can wear both if you wanted to. As it is now, they're branching out from just being able to show one skin at once.

And it's not like skins are going away - we know that the completion rewards for the next set are a skin and a memento, no trifectas needed.

I'm all for better rewards, but I don't like them locked behind something that's too difficult. I think Scalebreaker had the best reward schedule - a title for HM and the challenger, but the big cosmetic came from completion. It's really tough to get the earliest challenger rewards - you can't exactly trust a PUG to nodeath a dungeon, but you may be able to at least push through and complete it - and you see so few of them in game anyway. I don't think I've ever seen anyone in game wearing the Sable or Dreadhorn skins.

So to answer your poll, I'd like more cosmetic rewards like skins and personalities, but I'd also like the big stuff to be accessible to good players, not just the elite best-of-the-best who are able to have a team to practice whenever they want.

As someone who does trials all the time... I am just now getting into the 4-man content and the Beast and Worm Wizard personalities are the ones I'm after. I have the Beast and am working towards the Worm Wizard... it is so much fun when you find a good group to progress with or help teach you. I will go for all the hm's eventually but those true stand out for sure because of what you receive for the effort.

Perhaps just blend content into one version. And for difficult rewards, they could simply offer timed kills per boss or 0 deaths.

As is, it divides players and while some want harder and others may not...no one wants easier content

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Except for two Dungeons, i have completed every vet Dungeon in the game, most on hardmode.

Even with that I Think it is wrong to lock good gear behind the hardest content.

What you get by doing that is the strong gets super strong and the weak gets nowhere.

I much rather we close the gear gap a bit and instead lock skins and titles behind vet/hm achievements.

Exactly this.

Challenger rewards was one of the last remaining types of content keeping my bf and I logging in, apart from PvP

Now there's practically no reason for us to run dungeons any more. Except for motifs which barely sell for more than 50k anyway

So it's just cyrodiil until we get bored and find a new game

mairwen85 wrote: »

I have no problem with the way it works now with a nice skin or other cosmetic being available for a straight clear. People have been asking for that for a long time and I feel ZOS did listen on that front. At the same time, there should still be adequate rewards for trifecta. What those would be, I don't know, but certainly ZOS should come up with something, be that a memento, personality, title, unique piece of a dungeon set with a unique appearance/animation/effect, or even a mythic item, something fun and worthwhile.

No titles please...no one even looks at titles....they are the most worthless "reward" in the game...unless you somehow attached some minor buffs of some type to a title, an extra 300 max magicka or something for this title or that title...nothing really game-changing, but something that would make titles matter a bit

tomofhyrule wrote: »

What do you mean 'subpar' rewards? Are you implying the Meridian Purified skin is somehow 'less' than the Amber Plasm one since one is just completing vDoM while the other is speedrun/hardmode/nodeath vRoM? They're both skins.

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I feel that we've gotten a lot of different things based on dungeons. Not every one gave a skin and a personality...

vICP: dye
vICP HM: -
vICP challenger: -
vWGT: dye
vWGT HM: -
vWGT challenger: -
both: - non combat pet

You forgot that cute little pet if you did all vICP & vWGT achievements ...

OmniDo wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

I'm kind of against cosmetics being available for very hard content, especially personalities which are useful for RPers.

Can't agree with you there.
Normal Dungeons are easy, and were designed as such.
The "Bar" for mediocrity is already low enough as it is.
Veteran mode content, especially DLC Hard Modes and Trifectas, are designed to be the pinnacle of achievement and difficulty for a reason, because they're the hardest stuff there is.

I spent months working towards Worm-wizard, and probably hundreds of hours in attempts before I and my group finally achieved it. It's hard for a reason, and the worm-wizard personality was well worth the effort.

As for skins, eh...most skins look like crap anyway for most uses, and there are only a few which match any kind of RP visage which doesnt look downright cheesy.

Personally I've always been a fan of weapon effects or persistent toggleable auras, given that the only current weapon effects available come from special crown-only motifs, and are only visible when weapons are drawn.
There could be a further breakdown in rewards which facilitate the intended purposes of recognition for achievement, and we don't have to be limited to just personalities or skins.

And yet, my argument was to make the cosmetic available for vet completion, like how it is in vDoM. Nowhere did I say normal mode. I even wouldn't have an issue with cosmetics for hard mode completion.

I completely agree that normal is too easy compared to vet, and it doesn't prepare you well enough. The last time I rolled nMoS with my guild, we roasted everything in record time. And yet there's no easy way to practice a single boss fight on vet without getting a group together...and that's the tough part.

The one that gets me is the nodeath. You can be an incredible player, every dungeon and trial HM under your belt, and still not be able to get a nodeath because something decided to bug out, or you got cursed by RNG, or someone else did something stupid even though you were perfect. That's even the reason that the nodeath in CoHII is awarded before the final boss since there's a known bug that's never been fixed where you get instakilled even if you do get broken free of that attack.

I'm sure it's really frustrating when the whole group makes a perfect run, but the nodeath fails because someone misjudged the jump off a waterfall. Or because the mobs oneshot someone once because your tank was randomly chosen to get pinned. Or someone got cornered by all of the AoEs in the Tarcyr hunt. Or any number of random things that could have given the one death in the group...

I'm sure it's a great feeling to be able to grind a dungeon with a group until you get the trifecta. But not everyone has a guaranteed group of three friends to grind out dungeons daily and practice until it's perfect - there's almost no chance you can get a PUG to do a nodeath, and even if you're in a guild there's no guarantee that you'll be able to find a group willing to run a single dungeon over and over again...especially if the others in the guild already have the achievement and don't need the motifs. I ask my guild pretty well every day to run it, and I'm still only getting to do it once a week if I'm lucky, and even then it's a different group every time, and they want to do something else after the run so I can't really say "ok, this is how I went wrong and how I can fix it, let's try again!" And on top of that, I tank so I'm completely at the mercy of the DPS to see how fast the run goes.

And as to the RP thing, yes, most of the dungeons skins are tough to RP with. Personalities, on the other hand, especially since werewolves just got a nice overhaul and necromancers are a class, are great for RP. Sure some RPers are end game players, but not necessarily all of them. Is it really appropriate to tell people who aren't playing for score that their score isn't good enough? This is the same argument for making the fishing boat available for vKA - sure some people do endgame trials and housing, but we can't assume that every 'housing is the true endgame' player is an Alcast-level pro...it's probably more like a minority. Besides, it's a fishing boat - it hits differently if the furniture in question is a boss statue with cool effects that you'd put in a trophy room versus something very basic that would fit in the house of someone whose only character is a level 26 no CP they use just to decorate houses.

In the end, it ends up coming off as a bit elitist: "I got this thing, and I don't think others should have it since they don't have leet skillz like me." And this is especially annoying when the thing in question is something subdued (aka great for RPers) with little to no connection to the dungeon - it's obvious why the Dro m'Athra skin comes from MoL, or the Sable skin comes from vMHK. But nobody in Fang Lair uses the Necromancer personality, so why is it available there? Doubly since the story involves the Blackmarrow cult and the first boss uses the Blackmarrow skin...which is the reward from Scalecaller? Meanwhile Scalecaller's entire story has nothing to do with the Blackmarrow cult and nobody uses that skin at all. Why didn't FL get the necromancer skin as its reward, then Scalecaller could have gotten the Plague skin from the Baandari crates or the Dragon Priest hat that was the loyalty reward? And then the Worm Wizard personality could have been the loyalty reward (or...a preorder bonus for Elsweyr with the Necro class?), which would have made it accessible.

I'm fine with skins as vet rewards, as we've seen in pretty well every trial (granted the vAS and vCR rewards come from the +2/+3 'hardmodes') I think Sunspire actually had a great rewards setup - skin for vet complete, titles for hardmode (including an unlocked statue of the boss for each boss's HM), and mount for trifecta (among other achievements). Mounts are great rewards for really difficult content like trifectas. Even the idea that you had about weapon effects would be great.

It's also the idea that, at least for cosmetics, they're not associated with the characters. It's obvious that someone would want to wear the Sable Man-Beast skin and ride the Sunspire mount so they can show off how good they are. But it's also set up that you can make a new character, level 3 fresh-out-of-the-tutorial to look like that. Obviously that character didn't get Godslayer...they may even be in a tank setup but got carried through as a DPS on a different character, who knows. But what they can't do is put on that title. That's one of the best parts of titles is that the character wearing it is the one who got that achievement. There's your argument of global- vs. character-achievements, and why Craglorn PUG trials will ask you to link the achievement instead of the skin. But yeah, it's not 'flashy' enough to brag to others, which is why a lot of people don't like them. I guess if someone really needed validation, they could just spam their achievement in /z to make sure others know they're in the presence of someone better than them.

Tyrobag wrote: »

There is a certain point where you need to stop giving higher rewards for higher difficulty. When you lock the best gear behind "Naked No death HM Solo Vet Speedruns" the only people who are getting that gear are the people who don't need it. The top tier content should give tittles to show off your achievement, but definitely not powerful specialty gear. IMO it was far better in the old days back before "perfected" sets, when the difference between normal and vet gear was that vet stuff came at a higher improvement level by default.

If it were up to me, which its not, I'd opt for a reward set up like this:
Normal: Most gear available (not monster helms), blue tier
Vet: All gear available, purple tier. Skins, pets, mounts, and motifs available
Vet HM: All gear available, gold tier, always best traits. All collectibles. Tittles.

Much of this is similar to how it is now for the most part, but more rigidly defined and keeps to the idea that challenge is only about gear up to a point, after that challenge is mostly about the challenge itself. This way the most important gear is available to anyone, but you can still do hard mode for bragging rights, to save gold on tempers, and to reduce grinding time for ideal traits.

Why are you acting like cosmetics are comparable to gear exactly? They aren't. There has to be something worth the effort of completing challenger and trifecta achievements....and no, titles are worthless garbage that no one cares about as a reward. The idea of gold gear for vet HM is fair enough, but "best" traits is a bad idea...not only do the "best" traits change from patch to patch....but they completely lock out the possibility of getting a trait that isn't "best" but someone wants anyway because its a niche build.

Skins and personalities(if available in a dungeon) should definitely be locked behind challenger achievements....you can have your titles for vet completion if you they mean so much to you. If I join a pug in a vDLC and see someone wearing a Spiderkith or Amberplasm skin, I have more confidence in their ability than if I see someone wearing a Meridian Purified skin...I never even look at their titles. Its far far easier to get the Meridian skin than the Amberplasm skin...even these days with vROM nerfed into the ground from where it used to be.

An alternative idea for gear is for HM completion your loot for the run would become bind-on-equip instead of bind-on-pickup....giving at least an economic reason to do HM, I know I generally go through a lot more potions and repairs doing HM runs than I do on non-HM

when you go onto a forum with hard core players its kinda obvious what they are gonna lean towards. ofc they gonna lean towards level 1 no armor dark souls run with a set of cooking pans as a controller

zvavi wrote: »

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

when you go onto a forum with hard core players its kinda obvious what they are gonna lean towards. ofc they gonna lean towards level 1 no armor dark souls run with a set of cooking pans as a controller

@Playboy_Shrek We are definitely fine with the better rewards behind distributed through less hard achievements. The problem is that since the rewards got on easier achievements, the rewards quality went with it.

am all in for rewarding higher difficulty more. but am of the mindest that lower difficulty should be able to access that reward. randomly. probably have some rewards be guarnteed on stuff like hardmodes and maybe vet. and some not guarnteed but random and common on vet, and very uncommon on normal


I like a system like that. I think the problem is that these need to be time gated for all difficulties. because the economy of the game and everyones needs will be filled faster than new players will join the game