jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

Alkosh now gives pen based on a proc that can scale off of your CP. Tanks will still be the ones that commonly use this set, only they now have to change their CP to run it when they do.

I think your change will literally result in tanks having to pay 3000 gold to respec their CP when they wear Alkosh, and nothing else. I'm just being 100% honest, this change needs to either be more definitive or reverted if you want it to do anything important. DPS will not be more tempted to use this set, and tanks won't be less likely to wear it.

Unless you’re running an all purpose setup, CP changes to fit the trial you’re in anyway so there’s no extra burden to respec with these changes. You’re respeccing all the time anyway.

Plus...3k gold is chump change.

Furthermore, Blue CP is the least important to a tank and the Blue CP that’s allocated to befit the new Alkosh can remain so throughout all fights thereafter. Even if you’re not wearing Alkosh, that blue CP setup doesn’t need changed anymore.

People give more credit to Elfborn & Blessed than is necessary.

why would i change my cp between alkosh and non alkosh. tank dmg is negligible, and theres still plenty enough cp left to get the relevant nodes you want as a tank while still running optimal alkosh points.

catnamedwill wrote: »

This is so that stamDPS no longer needs to run sharpened to get max pen.

I doubt that was their intention with the change even if thats the result, sets with Minor Slayer are meant to be ran on DPS roles. Unfortunately ZOS doesn't learn their lesson no matter how many times they mess this up as seen with examples such as stam/mag DK, Roaring Opportunist, and the new Elemental Catalyst.

They continue to build trial debuffs into skills and sets to provide DPS opportunites for optimization and guaranteeing spots in raids, however most of theses sets work best on Support roles because they fail to build in requirements that only DPS can meet.

In the case of Alkosh, all it requires is "damage done" to increase the damage of the proc which isn't something you build for like Weapon Damage or Stamina, Tanks will easily get 10%+ type damage and 20%+ direct damage for the proc from blue CP that is almost completely pointless for a tank anyway allowing them to invest more points into them than a DD can..

In most cases minor berserk is already provided, minor slayer is on the set and major slayer can be gained from just having another person in the party so a tank will actually get the same or even more damage with the proc while allowing a DD to max out their personal DPS with something like Relequen + AY/Lokke. There is no reason to run this on a DD so their solution to the problem did absolutely nothing but decrease how much pen is needed for stam raids.

The saddest part about this to me is it directly affects Stam Sorc's new spammable. It's already falling flat in terms of bringing something unique to the group, when penetration has a hard cap and is now easily reached. Just like DK's Stone Fist and the Damage Done debuff, Stam Sorcs Crystal Weapon Armor Shred of 1k is designed to give them a unique debuff for a position in a raid, but since every other source quickly helps the group meet the 18.2k cap easier than ever before, the 1k armor shred becomes a bit of an afterthought instead of a requirement like we see with Engulfing Flames or Major Vulnerability.

Both Stam DK and Stam Sorc still have these unique debuffs attached to timers instead of something that scales with offensive stats like Engulfing Flames, resulting in the chance that other roles will cover these debuffs if need be.

It's just so frustrating to watch, it took them years to figure out how to get Engulfing Flames off of tank/healers, yet they continue to make the same mistakes for other situations in the game when they already solved the issue.

it doesnt matter, stam in raids are like roleplaying at this point.

Calypso589 wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

Alkosh now gives pen based on a proc that can scale off of your CP. Tanks will still be the ones that commonly use this set, only they now have to change their CP to run it when they do.

I think your change will literally result in tanks having to pay 3000 gold to respec their CP when they wear Alkosh, and nothing else. I'm just being 100% honest, this change needs to either be more definitive or reverted if you want it to do anything important. DPS will not be more tempted to use this set, and tanks won't be less likely to wear it.

Unless you’re running an all purpose setup, CP changes to fit the trial you’re in anyway so there’s no extra burden to respec with these changes. You’re respeccing all the time anyway.

Plus...3k gold is chump change.

Furthermore, Blue CP is the least important to a tank and the Blue CP that’s allocated to befit the new Alkosh can remain so throughout all fights thereafter. Even if you’re not wearing Alkosh, that blue CP setup doesn’t need changed anymore.

People give more credit to Elfborn & Blessed than is necessary.

Not true -- I do not run alkosh and further will not wear it as a Tank.

My CP's are setup for a very particular build on my tank who supports the group in other ways. No way am I letting this dictate my build - nor have I allowed it to. We clear content; including vet trials, without the need for it. I agree this set needs to be changed more to make DPS drool over another reason why Tanks have to Wear only two sets of armor.

I have never respeced my tanks cp for a specific trial and i have cleared all vet HM content that way.

@jesse318sub17_ESO

There's a reason I said, "unless you're running an all purpose CP setup."

If you fit that description then great!

If they want to actually make this set funtion differently in the game whatsoever beyond cp respecs every time you put it on, then id advise a much better change.

Did you read what I wrote? Once you adjust your Blue CP to befit the new alkosh, it never needs adjusted again. It'll work right alongside your existing all-purpose green and red trees.

With an all-purpose setup like yours, you'll only need to adjust once and you're done.

Calypso589 wrote: »

I have never respeced my tanks cp for a specific trial and i have cleared all vet HM content that way.

@jesse318sub17_ESO

There's a reason I said, "unless you're running an all purpose CP setup."

If you fit that description then great!

If they want to actually make this set funtion differently in the game whatsoever beyond cp respecs every time you put it on, then id advise a much better change.

Did you read what I wrote? Once you adjust your Blue CP to befit the new alkosh, it never needs adjusted again. It'll work right alongside your existing all-purpose green and red trees.

With an all-purpose setup like yours, you'll only need to adjust once and you're done.

Currently most endgame tanks run an all purpose CP setup including myself, yes. Even if endgame DPS do not...
With the Alkosh changes I will no longer actually have all purpose CP, I'll have CP for Alkosh, and CP for anything else.

@Calypso589 I think this is now coming down to a matter of opinion.. @jesse318sub17_ESO thinks their blue CP is important to their tanks. You and other people do not.

To them, they will have to change CP when they use the set because they value their blue CP. To most people, it doesn't make a difference.

Honestly, to OP just put your points to around 60ish for Master at Arms and Mighty and then the rest in what you deemed important as your neutral tanking cp setup. Thats the comprimise and you will still have around 150 points to spend wherever you want.

As others mentioned, blue CP for tanks is really not that important. Why would you feel the need to respec all the time if you don't normally, how do you have your blue CP right now and why?

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

Currently most endgame tanks run an all purpose CP setup including myself, yes. Even if endgame DPS do not...
With the Alkosh changes I will no longer actually have all purpose CP, I'll have CP for Alkosh, and CP for anything else.

But when wouldn't you wear Alkosh in end-game? As solo or MT you'll wear it the entire time, and in trash you'll wear it as OT too. I guess OT AS is the one trial many do not wear Alkosh at all.

Again, I want to reiterate this is not about my CP but about what the changes ZoS is making to Alkosh. All it is doing is making tanks respec their CP and nothing else. I highly doubt this was intentional and it is a problem that should be resolved.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

Again, I want to reiterate this is not about my CP but about what the changes ZoS is making to Alkosh. All it is doing is making tanks respec their CP and nothing else. I highly doubt this was intentional and it is a problem that should be resolved.

Dont worry, CP rework will solve that issues and CP rework was announced in 2018... oh wait.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

Again, I want to reiterate this is not about my CP but about what the changes ZoS is making to Alkosh. All it is doing is making tanks respec their CP and nothing else. I highly doubt this was intentional and it is a problem that should be resolved.

Or it could’ve been intentional. We’re all assuming they did this to benefit damage dealers but honestly, on day ONE we all knew this only required a small change for tanks.

So ZoS HAD to have known it too. There’s no way in hell they didn’t. If so then there definitely IS a problem & it’s not one in-game.

It’s possible this was done on purpose.

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

Again, I want to reiterate this is not about my CP but about what the changes ZoS is making to Alkosh. All it is doing is making tanks respec their CP and nothing else. I highly doubt this was intentional and it is a problem that should be resolved.

Well that I can agree with, in my previous comment I said that their changes were intended to move the set from being required on tanks to being more optimal on dps as a support set. That much is obvious and they failed there extravagantly, that is the problem that needs to be resolved.

The issue your proposing about respeccing blue CP is not a problem for the majority of players as they will do it once and forget about it..

Tanks who respec frequently for the given content, will still do so to optimze their red CP and although blue CP isn't really necessary to change, they will if they feel they want to optimize for Alkosh. Even then, there is 270 points and only a few stars worth it, beyond 60ish points it's a difference of 1-3% meaning most people will probably spread their points evenly and keep it the same here.

Tanks who don't like respeccing frequently only need to respec once if they want to juice out this set a little. You seriously don't need 100 points in Mighty and Master at Arms to make it function well.

Based on your comment, you already have a ton of free points to spend due to deminishing returns so while it may be an issue for you, your grasping at straws here.

I'm gonna take a guess and say this is what your blue CP looks like:

• Blessed: 100 (15% Healing Done)
• Elfborn: 81 (24% Spell Crit Healing)
• Precise Strikes: 81 (24% Weapon Crit Healing)
• Spell Erosion: 4 (413 Spell Penetration (0.82% Mitigation penetrated))
• Piercing: 4 (413 Weapon Penetration (0.82% Mitigation penetrated))

What you could go with:

• Blessed: 64 (13% Healing Done)
• Elfborn: 40 (16% Spell Crit Healing)
• Precise Strikes: 40 (16% Weapon Crit Healing)
• Spell Erosion: 0
• Piercing: 21 (1984 Weapon Penetration (3.968% Mitigation penetrated))
• Master at Arms: 56 (20% Direct Damage)
• Mighty: 49 (11% Physical/Poison/Disease Damage)

I'm not sure what tanks will actually go with, but this is what I'd do if I were in your position. You're losing 2% healing done and 8% crit healing for another 3% penetration, 20% direct damage and 11% physical damage which should be more than enough to buff Alkosh with some added benefits to your dps, if any.

The actual use case of that crit healing your concerned with is a difference of 1.74x to 1.66x at base, a loss of about 5%, even less if your a Khajiit and/or using the new Shadow Mundus stone... thats if you crit 100% of the time, to which you probably only have 25-35% of meaning that 5% loss is only like 1.5-2% lost.

Again, not to sound rude but I want to repeat that this is not about my CP, it's about what ZoSes change to Alkosh is doing. Which is basically nothing as far as who is going to use it. When I use Alkosh, I now respec my CP to boost the proc damage. Annoying, but more pen. Sure, fine. But as far as actually changing the dynamics of who is using the set or how it is used? Nothing has been done.

Nothing needs done. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Alkosh would need a total rework for it to be beneficial for a DPS to wear it.

Calypso589 wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

jesse318sub17_ESO wrote: »

Again, I want to reiterate this is not about my CP but about what the changes ZoS is making to Alkosh. All it is doing is making tanks respec their CP and nothing else. I highly doubt this was intentional and it is a problem that should be resolved.

Well that I can agree with, in my previous comment I said that their changes were intended to move the set from being required on tanks to being more optimal on dps as a support set. That much is obvious and they failed there extravagantly, that is the problem that needs to be resolved.

The issue your proposing about respeccing blue CP is not a problem for the majority of players as they will do it once and forget about it..

Tanks who respec frequently for the given content, will still do so to optimze their red CP and although blue CP isn't really necessary to change, they will if they feel they want to optimize for Alkosh. Even then, there is 270 points and only a few stars worth it, beyond 60ish points it's a difference of 1-3% meaning most people will probably spread their points evenly and keep it the same here.

Tanks who don't like respeccing frequently only need to respec once if they want to juice out this set a little. You seriously don't need 100 points in Mighty and Master at Arms to make it function well.

Based on your comment, you already have a ton of free points to spend due to deminishing returns so while it may be an issue for you, your grasping at straws here.

I'm gonna take a guess and say this is what your blue CP looks like:

• Blessed: 100 (15% Healing Done)
• Elfborn: 81 (24% Spell Crit Healing)
• Precise Strikes: 81 (24% Weapon Crit Healing)
• Spell Erosion: 4 (413 Spell Penetration (0.82% Mitigation penetrated))
• Piercing: 4 (413 Weapon Penetration (0.82% Mitigation penetrated))

What you could go with:

• Blessed: 64 (13% Healing Done)
• Elfborn: 40 (16% Spell Crit Healing)
• Precise Strikes: 40 (16% Weapon Crit Healing)
• Spell Erosion: 0
• Piercing: 21 (1984 Weapon Penetration (3.968% Mitigation penetrated))
• Master at Arms: 56 (20% Direct Damage)
• Mighty: 49 (11% Physical/Poison/Disease Damage)

I'm not sure what tanks will actually go with, but this is what I'd do if I were in your position. You're losing 2% healing done and 8% crit healing for another 3% penetration, 20% direct damage and 11% physical damage which should be more than enough to buff Alkosh with some added benefits to your dps, if any.

The actual use case of that crit healing your concerned with is a difference of 1.74x to 1.66x at base, a loss of about 5%, even less if your a Khajiit and/or using the new Shadow Mundus stone... thats if you crit 100% of the time, to which you probably only have 25-35% of meaning that 5% loss is only like 1.5-2% lost.

Again, not to sound rude but I want to repeat that this is not about my CP, it's about what ZoSes change to Alkosh is doing. Which is basically nothing as far as who is going to use it. When I use Alkosh, I now respec my CP to boost the proc damage. Annoying, but more pen. Sure, fine. But as far as actually changing the dynamics of who is using the set or how it is used? Nothing has been done.

Nothing needs done. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Alkosh would need a total rework for it to be beneficial for a DPS to wear it.

That is what ZoSes goal was. To have DPS wear the set by making this change. And in no way does the current change encourage this. For this reason, I think there SHOULD be a total rework of Alkosh rather than this small change. I honestly don't hate the change, but the fact remains that more must be done to get the intended result. So for this reason I still think the Alkosh change should be reverted if the set is not going to be reworked correctly.