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Why has this become DPSO?
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SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭People in this game just really resent people that have figured out how to hit things hard, don't they?✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨7 -
Auroan✭✭✭I'm not reading all of this. Go to Mugenmonkey, test out the father mask and the mother mask. You'll see. Chaos Blade doesn't bleed the user, it hurts him. 30 points more damage dealt than Uchi, 20 dealt to the user. Good deal, with more range and bleed buildup. Infusions are bad because they have to pass TWO defenses. Your 600 dmg Chaos Zweihänder actually deals only half of its damage because of that. And again, it's too slow to begin with. Look up the weapon tier lists, watch tournaments, read posts from actually skilled players. YOU are completely wrong.
Here:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=805438917
Damage, not bleed, so you're correct there, that's what I meant. My statement remains the same, I personally don't use it because I don't want to take the extra damage.
Because different armor has different resistance rating, for this comparison, I'll assume each player takes 50% reduced damage from all damage/elements.
+15 Zweihander = 444 flat damage.
444 x 0.50 = 222 total damage.
+5 Chaos Zweihander = 560 mixed damage (259 flat, 301 chaos).
259 x 0.50 = 129.5 flat damage
301 x 0.50 = 150.5 chaos damage
129.5 flat damage + 150.5 chaos damage = 280 total damage
Infused>Non-Infused
That's with Giant Dad build. If we have no build and just go with Raw stats
+15 Zweihander = 325 total damage
325 x 0.50 = 162.5 total damage
+5 Chaos Zweihander (+10 Humanity) = 677 mixed damage (313 flat, 364 chaos).
313 x 0.50 = 162.5 flat damage
364 x 0.50 = 180 chaos damage
162.5 flat damage + 180 chaos damage = 342.5 total damage
Infused>Non-Infused
I'm here all day if you want me to go through every weapon in the game to show you that Infused>Non-Infused.
Also note that Player Resistances is different then Monster Resistances. Lightning is incredibly popular in PvP because a Players lowest natural resistance is to Lightning, and Lightning does the most damage against blocking enemies (not counting bleed procs).
If you actually read what I said, you'd realize that what you're saying is completely irrelevant to what I was stating. Saying a Mother Mask is better then a Father Mask is completely subjective and based on which build you're going towards, and as I've said, no one build is a be all, end all. But you didn't read that part. You probably aren't reading any of this either and you probably won't respond to it either because you know if you do, I'll just continue to prove you wrong. There's lots of popoular Youtubers on ESO out there that share their builds and set ups, and why they do it, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is the best, or even good. The same thing applies to Dark Souls. Just because you found an Author that says one thing, doesn't make it the best, or even good. I used your MugenMonkey to show you the stats to prove you wrong, and I can continue to show you the stats (builds effect stats) to continue to prove you wrong, yet you'll still try and argue against me without even reading the fine details of what I wrote and how important every detail plays. That's arrogance and laziness.Edited by Auroan on August 14, 2020 1:51PM"And the Scrolls have foretold, of black wings in the cold,That when brothers wage war come unfurled!Alduin, Bane of Kings, ancient shadow unbound,With a hunger to swallow the world!"60k Achievement Point Club0 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭And real life has Low Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. The Meta for IRL is Upper Class, achieved through Innovation, which is motivated by Capitalism and the goal of Financial Freedom, which ultimately brings happiness to most (not all) individuals. But, just like in games, people are trying to nerf that Meta and equalize everything across the board through Communism/Socialism, not knowing that it'll just ruin things, destroy incentive, and create a new Meta anyways. But I'm not trying to get into politics on the forums, so I'm hoping no one responds to this portion of my comment (if so, I will not respond). You just made a comment, "if humans were like that, we'd have made no progress", and I'm just here to tell you that's totally false, because the meta IRL has been Capitalism for a very long time, and that's created great progress for everyone across the world, lol. There's a reason the biggest, richest and most innovative companies in the world (such as Amazon, iApple, Facebook, etc.), are all American companies. A majority of which were founded and currently run by American's, and/or individuals who became American citizens and live in America, which is a very Capitalist heavy country.
Thanks for the laugh, Donald.
Edited by Sylosi on August 14, 2020 2:40PM3 -
ForzaRammer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Versispellis wrote: »People in this game just really resent people that have figured out how to hit things hard, don't they?
I’d say this is typical thinking of those cap cp underachievers. They can’t dish out enough damage and complain about why others expect them to do it.
I am a tank main and i suck at LA weave, it doesn’t slow down my progress, i have all trial hm clears. I’d say a quarter of the tanks with all hm clear don’t even play dps.
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Auroan
Your calculation is completely wrong. Damage calculations in DS are ADDITIVE, not MULTIPLICATIVE. A +15 Zwei with 600 ar gets reduced to 400 dmg by 200 phys resistance. A 670 Chaos Zwei gets reduced to 170 dmg by 200 phys res and 300 flame def. Man, you have a long way to go in DS!
You also didn't look up the build on Mugen. Mask of Mother gives you 8% max health. Father saves you four points of endurance. If you take points from vitality into endurance and put on MoM, you gain 150 extra HP. THIS IS NOT SUBJECTIVE. It is better in every way. THAT is min-maxing!
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 14, 2020 3:55PM3 -
Auroan✭✭✭@Auroan
Your calculation is completely wrong. Damage calculations in DS are ADDITIVE, not MULTIPLICATIVE. A +15 Zwei with 600 ar gets reduced to 400 dmg by 200 phys resistance. A 670 Chaos Zwei gets reduced to 170 dmg by 200 phys res and 300 flame def. Man, you have a long way to go in DS!
You also didn't look up the build on Mugen. Mask of Mother gives you 8% max health. Father saves you four points of endurance. If you take points from vitality into endurance and put on MoM, you gain 150 extra HP. THIS IS NOT SUBJECTIVE. It is better in every way. THAT is min-maxing!
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Everything I've been saying is flying right over your head. I'm like a broken record player at this point repeating myself. How many times do I have to say that build effects every detail. You laid out a hypothetical example of something reducing flat by 200 and flame by 300. Of course the numbers will vary when you've purposely thrown in a higher reduction to your flame value. Values change based on the armor you're wearing, or the shield you're blocking with, that's why, to prevent a bias from using a specific type of set, or mixed and matched pieces to my calculations, I did 50% (or 200 being subtracted from 400, for example, since apparently I'm now being bashed for saying 50%) reduction across the board so that I'm not purposely feeding you stats to try and prove my point over yours. I'm not trying to be bias and give you examples using sets with high flat reduction but low fire reduction. So I gave a hypothetical where both flat and fire are reduced evenly. Does this make better sense to you now?
Again, I did exactly what you said and swapped the masks and subtracted 4 from VIT and put it into END. The result was sacrificing a fast roll for a medium roll, in exchange for 86 health, not 150 (using Giant Dad build). If I were to continue converting points to finally be able to get a fast roll, I'd have a total of 35 extra health. Yes, a whole whopping 35 extra health. So the setup you mentioned is indeed better by a whole 35 health points. But again, as I've stated numerous of times already, which you've purposely stated you've ignored, metas change. Back in the day, Father Mask reduced equipment burden by 15% while mother gave 15% health. Both got nerfed. Their values now? Father gives 5% while mother gives 10%. Father was nerfed an additional 5% compared to mother. That's where your whopping 35 extra health comes from in current times. Revert it back to when both were at 15% and guess which one has the health advantage because they can invest more points into VIT? Father.
Again, as I've stated numerous times, the whole point I'm trying to make isn't that one build is better then the other. If you look back to my original comments, I was stating to the OP of this topic that Dark Souls, just like ESO, has a history of buffs and nerfs toward gear and spells, and has had various different metas that people have exploited, just like in ESO. Giant Dad was one of these metas. People still run around using Giant Dad because it's still an effective Min/Max build and it's a solid meme. The reason why you and I started this debacle is because you said it wasn't Meta or Min/Max at all. You didn't state it's not meta as of Patch X or Y, or that it's no longer the most optimal Min/Max as of Patch X or Y, you just straight up said it's not Meta or Min/Max at all. Period. And that's simply not true. At one point in time, it was, just like the various other metas. Dark Souls and ESO are the same in regards to players using whatever the new flavor of the month is to exploit before it gets nerfed and a new meta is formed. This is what I've been trying to get at.
And I've gotten 100% achievements in both DS1 and DS3 multiple times on both consoles and PC, and have used and defeated various meta builds in PvP, so I think I'm good. Thanks for the concern though."And the Scrolls have foretold, of black wings in the cold,That when brothers wage war come unfurled!Alduin, Bane of Kings, ancient shadow unbound,With a hunger to swallow the world!"60k Achievement Point Club0 -
Auroan✭✭✭@Lord-Otto And just so we don't beat a dead dog, I'm once again going to post the stats from MugenMonkey so we can end this Infused vs Non Infused for good.
Using Giant Dad vs Giant Dad as example:
+15 Zweihander = 444 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
444 - 170 = 274 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad
+5 Chaos Zweihander = 676 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
Flame DEF = 338.3 = 168 damage reduction
676 - 170 - 168 = 338 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad.
338>274
If this still isn't enough to convince you then I give up and am wasting my time.Edited by Auroan on August 14, 2020 6:35PM"And the Scrolls have foretold, of black wings in the cold,That when brothers wage war come unfurled!Alduin, Bane of Kings, ancient shadow unbound,With a hunger to swallow the world!"60k Achievement Point Club0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You cut both damage values in half. Of course the higher one will still be higher. [snip] It's not 50% reduction to both - it's TWICE the reduction to the infused one. 200 phys resist and 300 fire is typical for a light ninja flip build, btw. It gets even higher (and more disadvantageous to your Zwei) with heavier armor.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 14, 2020 6:51PM1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Lord-Otto And just so we don't beat a dead dog, I'm once again going to post the stats from MugenMonkey so we can end this Infused vs Non Infused for good.
Using Giant Dad vs Giant Dad as example:
+15 Zweihander = 444 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
444 - 170 = 274 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad
+5 Chaos Zweihander = 676 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
Flame DEF = 338.3 = 168 damage reduction
676 - 170 - 168 = 338 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad.
338>274
If this still isn't enough to convince you then I give up and am wasting my time.
600. A two-handed Zwei with 27 strength has 611 AR.1 -
Auroan✭✭✭You cut both damage values in half. Of course the higher one will still be higher. [snip] It's not 50% reduction to both - it's TWICE the reduction to the infused one. 200 phys resist and 300 fire is typical for a light ninja flip build, btw. It gets even higher (and more disadvantageous to your Zwei) with heavier armor.
[snip]
See the calculations above
Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 14, 2020 6:52PM"And the Scrolls have foretold, of black wings in the cold,That when brothers wage war come unfurled!Alduin, Bane of Kings, ancient shadow unbound,With a hunger to swallow the world!"60k Achievement Point Club0 -
Auroan✭✭✭@Lord-Otto And just so we don't beat a dead dog, I'm once again going to post the stats from MugenMonkey so we can end this Infused vs Non Infused for good.
Using Giant Dad vs Giant Dad as example:
+15 Zweihander = 444 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
444 - 170 = 274 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad
+5 Chaos Zweihander = 676 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
Flame DEF = 338.3 = 168 damage reduction
676 - 170 - 168 = 338 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad.
338>274
If this still isn't enough to convince you then I give up and am wasting my time.
600. A two-handed Zwei with 27 strength has 611 AR.
The Giant Dad build uses 16 STR because that's all that's required to 2H it. That's part of Min/Maxing. The calculations I provided are with OnlyAfro's MugenMonkey Giant Dad build."And the Scrolls have foretold, of black wings in the cold,That when brothers wage war come unfurled!Alduin, Bane of Kings, ancient shadow unbound,With a hunger to swallow the world!"60k Achievement Point Club0 -
ZOS_ConnorGmodGreetings all,
After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for Baiting and non-constructive back and forth. Please ensure that when engaging in a discuss that you remain civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you think a post is baiting do not respond to it and instead report it for the moderators to review.
You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Lord-Otto And just so we don't beat a dead dog, I'm once again going to post the stats from MugenMonkey so we can end this Infused vs Non Infused for good.
Using Giant Dad vs Giant Dad as example:
+15 Zweihander = 444 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
444 - 170 = 274 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad
+5 Chaos Zweihander = 676 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
Flame DEF = 338.3 = 168 damage reduction
676 - 170 - 168 = 338 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad.
338>274
If this still isn't enough to convince you then I give up and am wasting my time.
600. A two-handed Zwei with 27 strength has 611 AR.
The Giant Dad build uses 16 STR because that's all that's required to 2H it. That's part of Min/Maxing. The calculations I provided are with OnlyAfro's MugenMonkey Giant Dad build.
Let me guess: SL 99?0 -
Auroan✭✭✭@Lord-Otto And just so we don't beat a dead dog, I'm once again going to post the stats from MugenMonkey so we can end this Infused vs Non Infused for good.
Using Giant Dad vs Giant Dad as example:
+15 Zweihander = 444 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
444 - 170 = 274 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad
+5 Chaos Zweihander = 676 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
Flame DEF = 338.3 = 168 damage reduction
676 - 170 - 168 = 338 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad.
338>274
If this still isn't enough to convince you then I give up and am wasting my time.
600. A two-handed Zwei with 27 strength has 611 AR.
The Giant Dad build uses 16 STR because that's all that's required to 2H it. That's part of Min/Maxing. The calculations I provided are with OnlyAfro's MugenMonkey Giant Dad build.
Let me guess: SL 99?
Yes. Last I recall, somewhere around the SL 120 range was the commonly accepted range for competitive PvP. This is about 21 SL lower then that range. Again, Min/Maxing is about getting as much as you can for as little possible. This is what Giant Dad accomplishes. I'm not saying it's the best, or be all, end all. All I'm saying is Giant Dad has been revered by a large portion of the community to be the epitome of Min/Maxing. Unless another SL 99 uses another strong Min/Max build and outplays them, taking down the Giant Dad can be challenging for the average player. This is why it was Meta.Edited by Auroan on August 14, 2020 7:11PM"And the Scrolls have foretold, of black wings in the cold,That when brothers wage war come unfurled!Alduin, Bane of Kings, ancient shadow unbound,With a hunger to swallow the world!"60k Achievement Point Club0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Lord-Otto And just so we don't beat a dead dog, I'm once again going to post the stats from MugenMonkey so we can end this Infused vs Non Infused for good.
Using Giant Dad vs Giant Dad as example:
+15 Zweihander = 444 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
444 - 170 = 274 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad
+5 Chaos Zweihander = 676 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
Flame DEF = 338.3 = 168 damage reduction
676 - 170 - 168 = 338 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad.
338>274
If this still isn't enough to convince you then I give up and am wasting my time.
600. A two-handed Zwei with 27 strength has 611 AR.
The Giant Dad build uses 16 STR because that's all that's required to 2H it. That's part of Min/Maxing. The calculations I provided are with OnlyAfro's MugenMonkey Giant Dad build.
Let me guess: SL 99?
Yes. Last I recall, somewhere around the SL 120 range was the commonly accepted range for competitive PvP. This is about 21 SL lower then that range. Again, Min/Maxing is about getting as much as you can for as little possible. This is what Giant Dad accomplishes. I'm not saying it's the best, or be all, end all. All I'm saying is Giant Dad has been revered by a large portion of the community to be the epitome of Min/Maxing. Unless another SL 99 uses another strong Min/Max build and outplays them, taking down the Giant Dad can be challenging for the average player. This is why it was Meta.
Again, you've never met a skilled player. Meta level is 125. Everything below is... funsies, really. But even a lightning Uchi would beat you there. Or a +15 Zwei with mid-roll. Which is irrelevant, since meta is 125. This is not min-maxing. You're still playing in junior league. Even Afro mentioned the remaining 26 points. That is exactly what I meant: You just don't understand the meta.1 -
IonicKai✭✭✭✭So as much as I love dark souls the OPs statement was that this is all damage and no skill. I kinda disagree with his argument. While I do agree that there are sustain issues in this game they are punishing to the unskilled player not the skilled ones.
In PVE DPS is king. That means executing on rotations with optimized gear. That said a team that cannot do mechanics and follow the strategies of dealing with the content you will just fall flat and die and a dead DPS is negative DPS since it's probably a DPS reviving them. If there was no skill involved to get here everyone would have all the trials skins and titles rather then the relatively small segment of the ESO population.
In PvP it is about timed bursts. This is a skill set and not something everyone can do without practice. Sure zerg on zerg warfare in cyro can hide this but true PVP builds are about timing, sustain, and burst. This is something that takes a decent amount of skill and is why people are so concerned with the upcoming proc meta (see PTS forums for more on this).
Basically in either case there is plenty of skill involved and both require time and effort that many players won't put in. Unfortunately this being an elder scrolls game many people view "play as you want" to mean that they can bring whatever they want and they should be capable. Unfortunately this is an MMO and MMOs do not work that way. There will always be meta and a lot of content around ESO is designed to be difficult with hard checks. ZOS has been criticized for over use of one shot mechanics because it helps enforce that it's safer to just kill faster as humans will eventually mess up.
This still doesn't make it anything like CoD. It makes it its own challenge that is more similar to WoW then CoD. WoW goes through the same concepts of hunting BiS gear and group composition. WoW requires team work and for groups to optimize on damage they are putting out. Plenty of things are "good enough" in this game if you consider the hard checks but it's unrealistic to expect players that are on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of a practiced skill (DPS for example) to be able to perfectly execute mechanics for up to 4-5x as long (because that's the size of the DPS gap). It's just not realistic to think that you can avoid aquiring the skill to do high damage and just execute mechanics for way longer than players who honestly understand the game at a deeper level.
Edit: typo.Edited by IonicKai on August 14, 2020 7:28PM0 -
Scrollup✭✭✭Overall the game is not balance.
1. Skilled players knows how to block and attack while animation cancel into Block. I still have not gotten used to this yet. It has to become a habit to master it.
2. Gears play a big role and unfortunately makes up 50% of advantages in PVP.
3. If you have more gold you you can buy these top 10 gear set which required 9 traits crafting completed.
In of the day, ESO is totally not balance and there's pot holes to fill.0 -
IonicKai✭✭✭✭Overall the game is not balance.
1. Skilled players knows how to block and attack while animation cancel into Block. I still have not gotten used to this yet. It has to become a habit to master it.
2. Gears play a big role and unfortunately makes up 50% of advantages in PVP.
3. If you have more gold you you can buy these top 10 gear set which required 9 traits crafting completed.
In of the day, ESO is totally not balance and there's pot holes to fill.
ESO is far from balanced but the most overpowered thing is player knowledge. The game has many mechanics that it doesn't teach you very well. It gives you some basic tips and says good luck.
As far as the gear issue I know some of the strongest PvP sets are crafted and if you provide mats many crafters will happily make gear for you.2 -
Auroan✭✭✭@Lord-Otto And just so we don't beat a dead dog, I'm once again going to post the stats from MugenMonkey so we can end this Infused vs Non Infused for good.
Using Giant Dad vs Giant Dad as example:
+15 Zweihander = 444 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
444 - 170 = 274 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad
+5 Chaos Zweihander = 676 damage
Physical DEF = 414.8 = 170 damage reduction
Flame DEF = 338.3 = 168 damage reduction
676 - 170 - 168 = 338 total damage per swing against another Giant Dad.
338>274
If this still isn't enough to convince you then I give up and am wasting my time.
600. A two-handed Zwei with 27 strength has 611 AR.
The Giant Dad build uses 16 STR because that's all that's required to 2H it. That's part of Min/Maxing. The calculations I provided are with OnlyAfro's MugenMonkey Giant Dad build.
Let me guess: SL 99?
Yes. Last I recall, somewhere around the SL 120 range was the commonly accepted range for competitive PvP. This is about 21 SL lower then that range. Again, Min/Maxing is about getting as much as you can for as little possible. This is what Giant Dad accomplishes. I'm not saying it's the best, or be all, end all. All I'm saying is Giant Dad has been revered by a large portion of the community to be the epitome of Min/Maxing. Unless another SL 99 uses another strong Min/Max build and outplays them, taking down the Giant Dad can be challenging for the average player. This is why it was Meta.
Again, you've never met a skilled player. Meta level is 125. Everything below is... funsies, really. But even a lightning Uchi would beat you there. Or a +15 Zwei with mid-roll. Which is irrelevant, since meta is 125. This is not min-maxing. You're still playing in junior league. Even Afro mentioned the remaining 26 points. That is exactly what I meant: You just don't understand the meta.
You need to explain to me what your definition of Min/Maxing is because it's clearly different then mine and a large portion of the DS community. My definition of Min/Maxing, as with many others, is getting as much as you can for as little as you can. Is yours different? If so, can you explain what it is? Unless your answer is, "because it's 20 SL short of what the commonly accepted PvP SL is", can you describe to me why Giant Dad isn't classified as Min/Maxing and why it's not/was not Meta for it's SL group? Do you not believe Meta and Min/Maxers exists for other SL around 120, or do you personally just believe Min/Maxing around something that's not 120 isn't worth it since that's what most of the community dubbed the sweet spot?
Would you disagree with the idea that SL 120 is considered the sweet spot by the community due to the fact that it allows players to invest points into VIT and END soft caps to prevent insta death, while also sparing them around 40ish+ points to start specifying in their specific build (FTH, INT, STR, etc.), as opposed to everyone be SL 700 gods or SL 30 lowbies? If you agree that 120 is the sweet spot because it allows for actual spec'ing into a specific build, then wouldn't that be counter productive to the idea of Min/Maxing and more into the idea if player and build identity for diverse, competitive play? If it doesn't encourage diverse and competitive play through the process of spec'ing, then why not everyone be SL 700 gods and do whatever they want, whenever they want? Do you see where I'm getting at?
As I've already clarified, Chaos>+15.
Again, you're delving into hypotheticals. Two players of equal skill, where one is using Giant Dad and the other is using a Katana build, doesn't have one absolute outcome where one always beats the other. There are many variables in a fight that you're completely disregarding.
You're also making false accusations, claiming I've never battled a skilled player and won, or PvP'd around SL 120 competitively with other players, and that I don't understand how Meta and Min/Maxing works, even though I can explain how each build works and why it works, but you, on the other hand, have proven to show the opposite every time I counter whatever you say. If you ask me, I'd say out of us two, you haven't battled a skilled player yet, nor do you actually understand the concept of Meta and Min/Maxing, as well as where and how it's applied. I'm sorry but all you've done is provided "this is better then that" claims, and when I present the math to you with the tools you wanted me to use, you still disagree. You haven't explained what your definition of Meta and Min/Maxing is and where/how it can be applied. You've literally done nothing but make false accusations. How is anyone suppose to believe you or take you seriously?"And the Scrolls have foretold, of black wings in the cold,That when brothers wage war come unfurled!Alduin, Bane of Kings, ancient shadow unbound,With a hunger to swallow the world!"60k Achievement Point Club0 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭And real life has Low Class, Middle Class and Upper Class. The Meta for IRL is Upper Class, achieved through Innovation, which is motivated by Capitalism and the goal of Financial Freedom, which ultimately brings happiness to most (not all) individuals. But, just like in games, people are trying to nerf that Meta and equalize everything across the board through Communism/Socialism, not knowing that it'll just ruin things, destroy incentive, and create a new Meta anyways. But I'm not trying to get into politics on the forums, so I'm hoping no one responds to this portion of my comment (if so, I will not respond). You just made a comment, "if humans were like that, we'd have made no progress", and I'm just here to tell you that's totally false, because the meta IRL has been Capitalism for a very long time, and that's created great progress for everyone across the world, lol. There's a reason the biggest, richest and most innovative companies in the world (such as Amazon, iApple, Facebook, etc.), are all American companies. A majority of which were founded and currently run by American's, and/or individuals who became American citizens and live in America, which is a very Capitalist heavy country.
Thanks for the laugh, Donald.
Nice. All gangsterworld's "found out" anxiety just went down 33 points.only a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you die to initial burst. You are not playing PvP correct, or you should have been caught off guard.Main Character:PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP Pure-class:
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed
PvE: Specialty
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)
Leveling...
Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
======
Passives of another race used:
*Breton
**Imperial
***Argonian
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}1 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Versispellis wrote: »People in this game just really resent people that have figured out how to hit things hard, don't they?
Not at all.
But I do hate when people who have achieved that develop a complex and hold that expectation of anyone else in the game. Especially when that hard of a hit is not necessary for anything in the game0 -
volkeswagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭it's funny you mention that. I often view pvp and vet trials as like a Call of Duty type style which is probably why I avoid it. I think zos realized long ago they can't please everyone. If the make certain changes to combat that some suggest it upsets another group of people. Can't win1 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭All it takes is a little work and you can’t get your DPS numbers up to a good enough level to get into the hardest PVE content. Now you won’t be making the leaderboards or running with the top trial groups but you’ll be able to hold your own and stay on your feet long enough to contribute to the group.
I’ve only recently started doing trials in the last month and building my gear to be more effective. All of my toons are in basic sets like Hundings/Briarheart and Julianos/Mother’s Sorrow. No monster helms, purple body pieces blue jewelry, only gold weapons. But the enchants are proper, skills appropriately leveled and rotations solid enough to hit 50k+.
All you have to do is put in a little time and The DPS will come.
0 -
Dovakhan✭✭✭DPSing is promoted even in questing: pure tanks and healers gets totally screwed in there, even more compared to any DD. With a DD, questing is basically Story Mode. With tanks/healers, it's basically a skipping competition, unless you do some kinda odd mixed build. And even then it's pretty much guaranteed that you're gonna miss your DD at some point.
Curiously enough, the issue is not so abysmal in PvP IMO, at least not for tanks. Good tanks are infamous for distracting entire hordes of players. And healers....they've a difficult job with the stupid healing penalties, but they can manage as well.Edited by Dovakhan on August 14, 2020 11:31PM0 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭So many people actually can’t seem to get this point more wrong, or if they do it, its their one and only priority (PvP tank mains). PvP is about survival and taking the opportunity to actually do damage with a combo. Unless you play some cheesy autopilot DOT build you should learn a combo, and pick the right time to use it, the main priority of PvP is to out survive the other person whilst still being able to kill them, not dump out monster damage and be a glass cannon (unless you enjoy playing in a large group and contributing to the lag thats destroying the game). You need to build tanky enough to survive a beatdown with enough sustain to last a fight, trying to compete in the *** swinging contest of highest weapon/spell damage will get you nowhere unless you are an incredibly capable player. familiarise yourself with classes playstyles and combos, learn what your classes strengths and weaknesses are etc. if you are fighting a DK and your healthbar is approaching ~60% you should know a leap is due, so heal up and get ready to block, if a templar is spamming jabs, don’t try and face tank, roll around or jump through them, kite and use line of sight when you are outnumbered, play to your strengths and avoid things that are your weakness. People will also criticise “meta riders” when its a meta they don’t like to play, but I can assure you everyone and their mother will jump on a proc set mag DK or magcro harmony bomber style build when its the flavour of the month.2 -
TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭Just wait and see what it's like after all the proc chances are removed from the 200 or so proc sets next patch.
WooHoo!0 -
TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭OP is comparing mechanics of a single-player game to an MMORPG and those mechanics make no sense here.
In any MMORPG that DPS meter is there and top groups working to clear the most challenging content will often have DPS requirements and in that certain sets of gear are the go-to choices to help obtain that DPS. FF14, SWTOR, and WoW all have the means to track ones DPS with both FF14 and SWTOR having the ability for a raid to track everyone's actions. I expect WoW does but could not stand the game enough to get into raiding.
So what OP is complaining about is life for anyone who wants to get into serious raiding groups in an MMORPG. With all this, player skill is still the most important factor in a players DPS.
As for the comments about PvP, they do not seem very appropriate to this game. Gear is far from the most significant aspect of a build (ok, except tank builds). Player skill is by far the most significant factor in a player's survival and killing other players. I have never been burst down in 1v1 as is suggested to be the case in ESO unless it is a large group all focusing on me.
I did have a different comment here with a deep explanation, but then I realized you want ESO to be exactly like every other MMO. It makes it easier for you to jump around different MMOs and know what you are doing. I want ESO to be what it could be. I realize that your thoughts may be the majority and shared with the eso staff.
I might have simply grew out of ESO. So I am making my own game, 2D for simplicity.
The only reason why I am here is because I randomly saw this vid today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMrE2sXJhno
Its funny because after the ESO portion he plays some third person shooter game and uses mines to kill somebody...
Then I finally realized, ESO is not the game for me. I gravitate towards games like Dark Souls and Syphon Filter. (Not CoD).
Dark souls I can beat a boss with a broken sword no armors similar with Syphon Filter.
I'll probably stay in ESO, but I won't try to play it to enjoy it. I give up. I am going to just follow the meta and do what everybody else is doing for progress.
Actually no can't do it..who enjoyed going down the same path everybody else does? If humans were like that we'd have made no progress.
Wow. How can a streamer be so easily agitated? [snip] He's not even good enough to run in Cyro or IC. ...ESO has a learning curve. You can't just jump in and be tier 1 player first day.
[Edited to remove Rude Comments]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 15, 2020 3:49PM0 -
EdmondDontes✭✭✭✭✭
✭
LOLZTineaCruris wrote: »OP is comparing mechanics of a single-player game to an MMORPG and those mechanics make no sense here.
In any MMORPG that DPS meter is there and top groups working to clear the most challenging content will often have DPS requirements and in that certain sets of gear are the go-to choices to help obtain that DPS. FF14, SWTOR, and WoW all have the means to track ones DPS with both FF14 and SWTOR having the ability for a raid to track everyone's actions. I expect WoW does but could not stand the game enough to get into raiding.
So what OP is complaining about is life for anyone who wants to get into serious raiding groups in an MMORPG. With all this, player skill is still the most important factor in a players DPS.
As for the comments about PvP, they do not seem very appropriate to this game. Gear is far from the most significant aspect of a build (ok, except tank builds). Player skill is by far the most significant factor in a player's survival and killing other players. I have never been burst down in 1v1 as is suggested to be the case in ESO unless it is a large group all focusing on me.
I did have a different comment here with a deep explanation, but then I realized you want ESO to be exactly like every other MMO. It makes it easier for you to jump around different MMOs and know what you are doing. I want ESO to be what it could be. I realize that your thoughts may be the majority and shared with the eso staff.
I might have simply grew out of ESO. So I am making my own game, 2D for simplicity.
The only reason why I am here is because I randomly saw this vid today.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMrE2sXJhno
Its funny because after the ESO portion he plays some third person shooter game and uses mines to kill somebody...
Then I finally realized, ESO is not the game for me. I gravitate towards games like Dark Souls and Syphon Filter. (Not CoD).
Dark souls I can beat a boss with a broken sword no armors similar with Syphon Filter.
I'll probably stay in ESO, but I won't try to play it to enjoy it. I give up. I am going to just follow the meta and do what everybody else is doing for progress.
Actually no can't do it..who enjoyed going down the same path everybody else does? If humans were like that we'd have made no progress.
Wow. How can a streamer be so easily agitated? [snip] He's not even good enough to run in Cyro or IC. ...ESO has a learning curve. You can't just jump in and be tier 1 player first day.
[Edited to remove Rude Comments]
[snip] He doesn't even complain about the lag....which is the primary and pretty much only issue.
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on August 15, 2020 5:34PM0 -
LuxLunae✭✭✭✭✭It's not an L2P issue, the sets dictate whether you win or lose. He should be mopping the floor with most players in cyro, or IC...
but this game... you NEED the sets....you can't just use your brains...
However, I will it is probably because we all know roll dodge and break free are unreliable.
I had a build that had a good amount of stam recov and would never fall below 90%. I thought I could roll dodge and break free my way to success...Every time I smashed the spacebar button, or roll dodge and I was still sitting on my knees... or dodging far after my death....
So what did the top pvp people do? they wen't heavy armor and drank immove pots...
Heavy armor allows more wiggle room in pvp...
Fury became the go to at the time because...well.. you gonna be stuck standing there anyways.. might as well get that damage...
Clever alchemest became the go to.. because ..I am going to pop an immove pot.. might as well get extra damage...
Edited by LuxLunae on August 15, 2020 5:28PM0