With nerfs to Critical Hit Chance and Damage, ZOS please don't forget to equally buff Khajiit

catnamedwill · August 2020

Currently, the amount of Critical Chance in the game is relatively high for builds that aren't even specializing in it. You can easily obtain a large amount from passive sources rather than active or choice based sources (such as choosing Precise over Nirnhoned) resulting in this set being incredibly powerful across all levels.

It seems that devs want to put an end to the crit meta in PvE or at least vastly increase the opportunity cost of it. Khajiit racial effectiveness is directly proportional to crit hit chance. As such please buff Khajiit when the overall crit nerf comes.

the1andonlyskwex · August 2020

It seems a little premature to be complaining about this.

Kolzki · August 2020

Too soon to complain, yes. Too soon to draw attention to balancing the crit race? Maybe not.

jecks33 · August 2020

i'll never change race to my khajiit

Anyron · August 2020

If they nerf critical chance/damage to end crt meta, why should they increase Khajiit passives?

Nerf others, just dont nerf me, right?

James-Wayne · August 2020

Crit needs to be looked at for sure, you should have to build towards if you want high numbers.

I remember in the early days of the game you had to run Inner Light for the buff sacrificing a skill spot but now its just not needed.

Get the milk ready for it

Koubo · August 2020

James-Wayne wrote: »

Crit needs to be looked at for sure, you should have to build towards if you want high numbers.

I remember in the early days of the game you had to run Inner Light for the buff sacrificing a skill spot but now its just not needed.

Get the milk ready for it

Innerlight is still overly used for MagDDs nowodays. I dont remember a build without it TBH.
And my Stamplar sit @64%Crit (iirc) trial condition (on 21% Dumie if you prefer) which isn't overly hight even with a almost perfect gear (pReleq wont bring more crit anyway)
It might be different with AY Next patch tho.

MagDD have more crit, due to MS. And MS is buffed. which make no sense with the affirmations.

I agree tho, if the overall crit rate is nerf by a medium/lot, Khajiit should be take in count with the passive (not like so many nerf applied without taking in count colateral damage resulting into more, deep, nerfs)

catnamedwill · August 2020

Anyron wrote: »

If they nerf critical chance/damage to end crt meta, why should they increase Khajiit passives?

Nerf others, just dont nerf me, right?

@Anyron

Come on, are you serious. Khajiit is the definition of

specializing in it

for crit builds. You are entirely devoting your character around the crit. The crit meta is the very reason that Khajiit got nerfed during PTS of both racial balance patches i.e Dark Brotherhood patch and the Wrathstone patch. Khajiit has lesser stat density compared to other races, simply due to the fact the moment they are given equal stat density as other races, they become immediate BiS over all other races, which was something that happened both times resulting in nerfs even before either patch hit live.

x48rph · August 2020

Well good luck. They gave bosmer stealth detection while flat out stating that most monsters couldn't be bothered with using stealth so I won't be too surprised when your crit boost turns into a worthless bonus.

YandereGirlfriend · August 2020

If Critical Chance and Damage end up getting toned down (which they probably should) then Khajiit should get its old racial bonus of Critical Chance back.

In this OP Critical Damage meta, having such a bonus was deemed to be too powerful but if it is brought in line with other damage sources then switching the bonus back to Critical Chance is a more broadly useful and versatile bonus.

Or you could give them a bonus to BOTH (while sacking one of their other racial bonuses) and really reinforce their role as the ultimate Critical class. (Going this route, you could give Critical Chance back to Bosmer as they are in need of some help and class theming as well).

Tannus15 · August 2020

Khajiit passive is bad anyway.

I tested a 100% crit chance magsorc build on a khajiit and a altmer and got higher dps on the altmer.

YandereGirlfriend · August 2020

That true, as your baseline damage with that much Critical Chance will be super weak.

Having Critical Chance as a Khajiit racial skill isn't so much to boost it to extreme values as it is to defray the opportunity cost of building to shore up your other weakness (base damage) since you already have a large portion of Critical Chance covered.

Ratzkifal · August 2020

Anyron wrote: »

If they nerf critical chance/damage to end crt meta, why should they increase Khajiit passives?

Nerf others, just dont nerf me, right?

@Anyron Because the nerf would be double dipping for Khajiit but not the others? Instead nerf everyone the same please.

Math explanation of the issue
Let's say Dunmer deals 1000 base damage per second and crits 75% of the time for double damage.
That gets them a total average dps of 1750 damage per second.
Let's pretend that Khajiit are currently balanced to reach the same total dps as Dunmer, so again 1750, but they get there differently. They have the same 75% crit chance but deal double damage + 10% extra crit damage instead, but naturally have a lower base damage value. After some more math I determined the base damage has to be 959.

Now let's look at those numbers if the crit chance gets reduced to 50% for everyone and see if it impacts one race more than the other...
1000*0.50 + 1000*2*0.50 = 1500 for Dunmer after the change.
959*0.50 + 959*2.1*0.50 = 1486 for Khajiit.
Note how only the crit chance was touched and nothing directly about the racial passives and yet the nerf hits Khajiit harder than Dunmer when they were both perfectly balanced before.

(1500/(959*0.5)) - 1 = 2.13
In this scenario Khajiiti crit damage would have to be buffed from 10% to 13% for it to be balanced again as it used to be.
This is why this topic exists and Khajiit need to be buffed if crit chance gets nerfed.

Anyron · August 2020

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

If they nerf critical chance/damage to end crt meta, why should they increase Khajiit passives?

Nerf others, just dont nerf me, right?

@Anyron Because the nerf would be double dipping for Khajiit but not the others? Instead nerf everyone the same please.

Math explanation of the issue
Let's say Dunmer deals 1000 base damage per second and crits 75% of the time for double damage.
That gets them a total average dps of 1750 damage per second.
Let's pretend that Khajiit are currently balanced to reach the same total dps as Dunmer, so again 1750, but they get there differently. They have the same 75% crit chance but deal double damage + 10% extra crit damage instead, but naturally have a lower base damage value. After some more math I determined the base damage has to be 959.

Now let's look at those numbers if the crit chance gets reduced to 50% for everyone and see if it impacts one race more than the other...
1000*0.50 + 1000*2*0.50 = 1500 for Dunmer after the change.
959*0.50 + 959*2.1*0.50 = 1486 for Khajiit.
Note how only the crit chance was touched and nothing directly about the racial passives and yet the nerf hits Khajiit harder than Dunmer when they were both perfectly balanced before.

(1500/(959*0.5)) - 1 = 2.13
In this scenario Khajiiti crit damage would have to be buffed from 10% to 13% for it to be balanced again as it used to be.
This is why this topic exists and Khajiit need to be buffed if crit chance gets nerfed.

There are other races which are not even close to Khajiit and Dunmer (dps), like Nord or Argonian
So they should get buffs too?

Khajiit racials still works. It still add something which isnt nerfed. They do not nerf Khajiit racials, they may nerf crit at global.

So my question is still same. Why should be Khajiit racials buffed, if they do not nerf it directly, but indirectly? Dont you think its unfair?

For a while there isnt ballance in racials. We all get use to it. Maybe its time for you too

MacCait · August 2020

I think a few would like to see Khajiit reworked. Of all races it still feels less than. It seems a player would only role a Khajiit unless they a) want to build for Crit, or b) want to roleplay a khajiit. There is no other reason to role one as unlike most classes they are not flexible. They are the best for Crit, but pretty bad for anything else.

MacCait · August 2020

Anyron wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

If they nerf critical chance/damage to end crt meta, why should they increase Khajiit passives?

Nerf others, just dont nerf me, right?

@Anyron Because the nerf would be double dipping for Khajiit but not the others? Instead nerf everyone the same please.

Math explanation of the issue
Let's say Dunmer deals 1000 base damage per second and crits 75% of the time for double damage.
That gets them a total average dps of 1750 damage per second.
Let's pretend that Khajiit are currently balanced to reach the same total dps as Dunmer, so again 1750, but they get there differently. They have the same 75% crit chance but deal double damage + 10% extra crit damage instead, but naturally have a lower base damage value. After some more math I determined the base damage has to be 959.

Now let's look at those numbers if the crit chance gets reduced to 50% for everyone and see if it impacts one race more than the other...
1000*0.50 + 1000*2*0.50 = 1500 for Dunmer after the change.
959*0.50 + 959*2.1*0.50 = 1486 for Khajiit.
Note how only the crit chance was touched and nothing directly about the racial passives and yet the nerf hits Khajiit harder than Dunmer when they were both perfectly balanced before.

(1500/(959*0.5)) - 1 = 2.13
In this scenario Khajiiti crit damage would have to be buffed from 10% to 13% for it to be balanced again as it used to be.
This is why this topic exists and Khajiit need to be buffed if crit chance gets nerfed.

There are other races which are not even close to Khajiit and Dunmer (dps), like Nord or Argonian
So they should get buffs too?

Khajiit racials still works. It still add something which isnt nerfed. They do not nerf Khajiit racials, they may nerf crit at global.

So my question is still same. Why should be Khajiit racials buffed, if they do not nerf it directly, but indirectly? Dont you think its unfair?

For a while there isnt ballance in racials. We all get use to it. Maybe its time for you too

I have 3 Argonians, they are great. They feel pretty powerful with the passives they get. But I agree, Nord still feels less than along with Khajiit. I Think everything else is in great form. It is not just about DPS, but more flexibility in other roles

Kolzki · August 2020

MacCait wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

If they nerf critical chance/damage to end crt meta, why should they increase Khajiit passives?

Nerf others, just dont nerf me, right?

@Anyron Because the nerf would be double dipping for Khajiit but not the others? Instead nerf everyone the same please.

Math explanation of the issue
Let's say Dunmer deals 1000 base damage per second and crits 75% of the time for double damage.
That gets them a total average dps of 1750 damage per second.
Let's pretend that Khajiit are currently balanced to reach the same total dps as Dunmer, so again 1750, but they get there differently. They have the same 75% crit chance but deal double damage + 10% extra crit damage instead, but naturally have a lower base damage value. After some more math I determined the base damage has to be 959.

Now let's look at those numbers if the crit chance gets reduced to 50% for everyone and see if it impacts one race more than the other...
1000*0.50 + 1000*2*0.50 = 1500 for Dunmer after the change.
959*0.50 + 959*2.1*0.50 = 1486 for Khajiit.
Note how only the crit chance was touched and nothing directly about the racial passives and yet the nerf hits Khajiit harder than Dunmer when they were both perfectly balanced before.

(1500/(959*0.5)) - 1 = 2.13
In this scenario Khajiiti crit damage would have to be buffed from 10% to 13% for it to be balanced again as it used to be.
This is why this topic exists and Khajiit need to be buffed if crit chance gets nerfed.

There are other races which are not even close to Khajiit and Dunmer (dps), like Nord or Argonian
So they should get buffs too?

Khajiit racials still works. It still add something which isnt nerfed. They do not nerf Khajiit racials, they may nerf crit at global.

So my question is still same. Why should be Khajiit racials buffed, if they do not nerf it directly, but indirectly? Dont you think its unfair?

For a while there isnt ballance in racials. We all get use to it. Maybe its time for you too

I have 3 Argonians, they are great. They feel pretty powerful with the passives they get. But I agree, Nord still feels less than along with Khajiit. I Think everything else is in great form. It is not just about DPS, but more flexibility in other roles

Nord are at the weak end for damage, sure, but they're the meta for tanks and widely used in pvp.

Getting back to the khajiit... if crit chance is nerfed then that's a relative nerf for khajiit. If crit damage is nerfed then that's a relative buff for khajiit (as khajiit crits would be noticably stronger than those of other races, which is not the case now except in pvp where the effective base crit damage is lower). There's a balance though. Crit damage can only be nerfed so far before it becomes inefficient to stack into crit.