Fix VMA.

zvavi · August 2020

Halen wrote: »

nothing is broken in vMA7 : about 2 years they changed dodging rules (all tanks remember well this pain moment in dlc dungeons). before : starting dodging = avoidance. after : ended dodge anim (at a safe place) for the same effect. if you add in this a little of lag... ouch (better is to be always as far as possible from these plants)

vMA is a funny place to play, but going there waiting for specific item always was dissapointing (now we can at least change traits...)

I present you reality, no roll dodge involved.

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

Ha ha
this has been happening for a very long time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Uq52NmzfI

the game dont work

Vevvev · August 2020

On the Argonian level I stay in the center and avoid the mushrooms like the plague. I only move from that spot to engage the poison callers and it works just fine. I actually find the Rink of Frozen Blood harder than the Argonian one.

Serude · August 2020

Its complete *** they added perfected maelstrom weapons. Too lazy to even come up with a different arena for a different better weapon.

GlorphNoldorin · August 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

On the Argonian level I stay in the center and avoid the mushrooms like the plague. I only move from that spot to engage the poison callers and it works just fine. I actually find the Rink of Frozen Blood harder than the Argonian one.

None of the rounds are difficult, I have flawless on all classes with oceanic ping of over 300. Even that video I posted earlier I died once during the whole run. Doesnt mean its right that the game has so much lag in a single player instance or that telegraphs, skills and mechanics dont work.

Zenimax charges us money, does very little to improve long time content, makes decisions that require people to re farm very old content.....they should be taken to task!

Aznarb · August 2020

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

On the Argonian level I stay in the center and avoid the mushrooms like the plague. I only move from that spot to engage the poison callers and it works just fine. I actually find the Rink of Frozen Blood harder than the Argonian one.

None of the rounds are difficult, I have flawless on all classes with oceanic ping of over 300. Even that video I posted earlier I died once during the whole run. Doesnt mean its right that the game has so much lag in a single player instance or that telegraphs, skills and mechanics dont work.

Zenimax charges us money, does very little to improve long time content, makes decisions that require people to re farm very old content.....they should be taken to task!

Agree.
Did it for the 1st time yesterday, as healer never had to do it so never tried.
I've read and ear many thing about how hard it is, since I'm not a DPS I though it's would be to hard for me.
I've do it with NMA/MS/Grodarr, atro mundus and magika regen glyph cuz lazy to change, did it in one try and most dead was just me not knowing mech since I don't wanted to be spoiled.
It was a huge disappointment was expecting something way harder.

Agree for telegraphed poison aoe, died once from this, after this and twice because of bad RNG where the Argo healer stop on a mushroom <.<
Otherwise, all fine.

Eliran · August 2020

100 VMA mark today, still NO FLURRY WEAPON, are they even on the loot table?

Kadoin · August 2020

Halen wrote: »

nothing is broken in vMA7 : about 2 years they changed dodging rules (all tanks remember well this pain moment in dlc dungeons). before : starting dodging = avoidance. after : ended dodge anim (at a safe place) for the same effect. if you add in this a little of lag... ouch (better is to be always as far as possible from these plants)

vMA is a funny place to play, but going there waiting for specific item always was dissapointing (now we can at least change traits...)

Dodge doesn't even work in real time; it literally appears to stop you at one place, hold you there for a time, then teleport you to another. This knowledge of how the mechanic works is critical to becoming a "god" in PvP, because it's also very exploitable when it's laggy (like dodging without rolling at certain points, etc.).

Then again, I can't call it an exploit when it's an intentional change that players that realize the above will find ways to capitalize on...

Eliran · August 2020

140 attempts.

Still not a single flurry one hand.

Who ever programmed it, really REALLY REALLY should consider seeking some empathy class for torturing people like this.

fred4 · August 2020

Why would you want that set? It wasn't great at 2K and was buffing AOE DOTs, such as Dawnbreaker. Does it even still do that? It's too cumbersome for PvP and the time when it was BIS in PvE was long ago.

volkeswagon · August 2020

i think when you do vet you should be able to choose from 3 possible rewards at the end.

Banana · August 2020

I'm going to die of old age before that toilet drops my shock staff

Dovakhan · August 2020

Good to know Stage 7 is bugged. It's the only one I consistently die on xP

gplumblingnrb18_ESO · August 2020

Well they already broke vMA with giving the items to anyone that can finish it on freaking NORMAL.
They might as-well just give the option to pick which Item we want at the end of the area.

I have run Maelstrom over 100x in vet and around 60x in normal and still have not got a freaking inferno staff.

furiouslog · August 2020

I've been suspecting that there is something wonky with the way RNG works for MA drops, and if what the people are saying in this thread is true, then it's definitely broken.

There is a statement in some patch notes from a while back that each weapon has a nearly equal chance to drop (bows, shields, and restos are adjusted slightly lower by an unspecified amount). If we ignore that, if someone actually ran vMA 100 times, the chances that they would not have gotten an inferno staff are 0.000334, or 0.0334%, or roughly 1 in 3000.

Given that more than 3000 players are probably actually running vMA, it stands to chance that at least one unlucky person will not get the item they want after 100 runs and will come here to report that. gplumb, I guess you are that guy. The OP has it even worse, because there should be a 3 in 13 chance with every run that he'll get his item set, and he has not gotten one yet.

I've been keeping data on this using my runs and a number of other runs from friends, and have posted about it before. Our sample appears to adhere to the expected distribution of outcomes in aggregate, but individually there are some weird biases. The biases are such that I wonder if there is not something else influencing the drop other than random chance.

However, the larger question is this: why does ZOS continue to employ a system that randomly punishes a portion of their consumers by forcing them to run this content over and over when this is a possible outcome for a small percentage of their players? I hate vMA, it's buggy, it's laggy, I don't care about score-pushing it, and I've done it well over 60 times myself just to get a damn inferno staff, which I got once before the patch, and none after (and I keep running it because they didn't convert my existing to perfected).

ZOS, as has been mentioned many times before, use a system for arena weapons like the Undaunted, where you can opt for a currency token that can be used to purchase desired items, and set the limits at what you perceive to be a reasonable investment of time for your players. Stop making a random number of us suffer through this abomination.

codierussell · August 2020

It's funny when peoplecomplain about vma drops and RNG. The fact that you ran vma 100 times does not change the chances at getting a specific weapon. Each time you run vma it is the same odds as the last one for what weapon drops. That's like saying when you flip a coin and get heads 100 times in a row, it is unlikely but every time you flip a coin it is still 50% chance of getting either heads or tails, even if the last 99 flips were heads. Now apply that to something that instead of 50% you get the result you are wanting to 8% (this is assuming there are 13 unique drops which is a number I have seen before). So every time you run vma you only have 8% at a given weapon, with the last 99 runs not changing that percentage.

The way RNG works is in the coding each unique weapon drop will be given a number. Then the computer randomly picks a number between the given subset of numbers which in this case will be any number between 0 and 12 (as 0 will count as the first number in the subset). Now is it possibly for ZOS to manipulate this to make some weapons harder to obtain? Yes, they could just add more numbers to the subset decreasing the already small 8% chance at getting the desired weapon. Are they doing this? Most likely not, how does this benefit them in any way?

I always point out in these topics too that you have to look at the small sample size you have at 100 runs. Spread that over 10,000 runs that probably happen weekly across all servers you get pretty close to the 8% mark on each drop, of course there could very well be anomalies. For myself, I probably have gotten 10 perfected dw sets so far and only one inferno that I got in the mail this past week. That is running something like 6 to 7 characters for the leaderboard each week since the start of the patch. That will balance out the people I know who have ran it once and got an inferno staff.

I would also like to conclude that we could still have a system like when vma first came out, it was something like a 20% chance to drop a weapon meaning you could complete 5 runs and only get one weapon on average. Then throw in no transmutes and the normal RNG the grind was a nightmare.

Banana · August 2020

Eliran wrote: »

100 VMA mark today, still NO FLURRY WEAPON, are they even on the loot table?

Sounds like my shock staff

Lord-Otto · August 2020

Maelstrom just sucks.
It's needlessly bloated, unrewarding thanks to RNG, buggy and just full of BS.
I can't understand how anyone would consider this his/her favorite content in the game.[snip]

[edited for bashing]

furiouslog · August 2020

codierussell wrote: »

It's funny when peoplecomplain about vma drops and RNG. The fact that you ran vma 100 times does not change the chances at getting a specific weapon. Each time you run vma it is the same odds as the last one for what weapon drops. That's like saying when you flip a coin and get heads 100 times in a row, it is unlikely but every time you flip a coin it is still 50% chance of getting either heads or tails, even if the last 99 flips were heads. Now apply that to something that instead of 50% you get the result you are wanting to 8% (this is assuming there are 13 unique drops which is a number I have seen before). So every time you run vma you only have 8% at a given weapon, with the last 99 runs not changing that percentage.

The way RNG works is in the coding each unique weapon drop will be given a number. Then the computer randomly picks a number between the given subset of numbers which in this case will be any number between 0 and 12 (as 0 will count as the first number in the subset). Now is it possibly for ZOS to manipulate this to make some weapons harder to obtain? Yes, they could just add more numbers to the subset decreasing the already small 8% chance at getting the desired weapon. Are they doing this? Most likely not, how does this benefit them in any way?

I always point out in these topics too that you have to look at the small sample size you have at 100 runs. Spread that over 10,000 runs that probably happen weekly across all servers you get pretty close to the 8% mark on each drop, of course there could very well be anomalies. For myself, I probably have gotten 10 perfected dw sets so far and only one inferno that I got in the mail this past week. That is running something like 6 to 7 characters for the leaderboard each week since the start of the patch. That will balance out the people I know who have ran it once and got an inferno staff.

I would also like to conclude that we could still have a system like when vma first came out, it was something like a 20% chance to drop a weapon meaning you could complete 5 runs and only get one weapon on average. Then throw in no transmutes and the normal RNG the grind was a nightmare.

Even given a small N, you can still apply a chi-squared test to determine the chances that the RNG as specified is not "fair". If you flipped a coin 100 times, and it came up heads all 100 times, the probability of that is 7.8E-31, which would lead me to conclude that the coin is definitely not fair if that happened. Is it possible? Yes, it is possible. It is extremely improbable, though. Pharmaceuticals are approved by governments as safe with having known and acceptable side effects with less confidence. You can't prove that the RNG is what it is with 100 drops. You can, however, prove to a particular level of confidence that it is not what they say it is with 100 drops if it fails the test.

mairwen85 · August 2020

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Maelstrom just sucks.
It's needlessly bloated, unrewarding thanks to RNG, buggy and just full of BS.
I can't understand how anyone would consider this his/her favorite content in the game. [snip]

Heh.

codierussell wrote: »

It's funny when peoplecomplain about vma drops and RNG. The fact that you ran vma 100 times does not change the chances at getting a specific weapon. Each time you run vma it is the same odds as the last one for what weapon drops. That's like saying when you flip a coin and get heads 100 times in a row, it is unlikely but every time you flip a coin it is still 50% chance of getting either heads or tails, even if the last 99 flips were heads. Now apply that to something that instead of 50% you get the result you are wanting to 8% (this is assuming there are 13 unique drops which is a number I have seen before). So every time you run vma you only have 8% at a given weapon, with the last 99 runs not changing that percentage.

The way RNG works is in the coding each unique weapon drop will be given a number. Then the computer randomly picks a number between the given subset of numbers which in this case will be any number between 0 and 12 (as 0 will count as the first number in the subset). Now is it possibly for ZOS to manipulate this to make some weapons harder to obtain? Yes, they could just add more numbers to the subset decreasing the already small 8% chance at getting the desired weapon. Are they doing this? Most likely not, how does this benefit them in any way?

I always point out in these topics too that you have to look at the small sample size you have at 100 runs. Spread that over 10,000 runs that probably happen weekly across all servers you get pretty close to the 8% mark on each drop, of course there could very well be anomalies. For myself, I probably have gotten 10 perfected dw sets so far and only one inferno that I got in the mail this past week. That is running something like 6 to 7 characters for the leaderboard each week since the start of the patch. That will balance out the people I know who have ran it once and got an inferno staff.

furiouslog does mention that, and I feel the same, there are and will always be outliers in a random system. It may balance out over a larger portion of results from multiple players, but it doesn't change that fact that some people will be extremely lucky and others extremely unlucky.

furiouslog wrote: »

However, the larger question is this: why does ZOS continue to employ a system that randomly punishes a portion of their consumers by forcing them to run this content over and over when this is a possible outcome for a small percentage of their players?

I don't like the idea of solving RNG issues with another layer of RNG. If a token system is to exist, it would have to be x tokens for explicit item, no chance involved, and therein lies the problem. How many is too many to be a reasonable volume of bad luck? And what if you have the good luck of an inferno or bow per run, would you still get tokens and be able to cash those in for yet another guaranteed drop of choice?

Isteris · August 2020

i dropped the perfected flurry set first run , an axe and a sword but hey it's dual wield. going forward i have lined up my chars on the last level, when we get a Wrothgar event with double drops i will put them all through and thats it , the last time i will ever run vma. the weapons just dont warrent the grind.

furiouslog · August 2020

mairwen85 wrote: »

I don't like the idea of solving RNG issues with another layer of RNG. If a token system is to exist, it would have to be x tokens for explicit item, no chance involved, and therein lies the problem. How many is too many to be a reasonable volume of bad luck? And what if you have the good luck of an inferno or bow per run, would you still get tokens and be able to cash those in for yet another guaranteed drop of choice?

I have not thought through how a token system would work, but for Undaunted, you get 1 key for normal/vet and 2 keys for HM, so you'd probably need a factor for normal versus vet arenas like that.

As for exchange, I figure there are basically two ways to do it without having an item and a token, one is to just offer the token upon completion, and have a vendor that sells the stuff based on which difficulty level you finished. The "normal" vendor could sell stuff for lower token prices than the vet vendor. You would not actually get an item drop - the drop would be the token. Leaderboard weeklies could still provide random mail drops of items.

The other way is to drop the item and then allow for an exchange for a token at the vendor (using the normal/vet vendors as above). This sounds more complicated to implement - but it would mitigate the issue of people wanting to take a chance on being lucky rather than being forced to acquire and spend tokens.

A third option is to just make arena weapons bind on equip. This does not seem like something ZOS is willing to do for various reasons (e.g. enforcing their meritocracy, having incentives to complete certain content), so I don't think it would happen, but it would quickly and efficiently solve the problem for the set of people who are unlucky enough to be forced to run MA over 100 times to get the single item they want.

EDIT: The Cyrodiil and IC proof drops could be a decent model, where you get an item drop from the chest, but then you also get a token drop on quest completion, and the vendor sells a coffer with the item in it for a certain number of tokens. You'd get one token for a normal drop and two for a vet drop. They could set the prices comparably to the Cyrodiil stuff, like 50 tokens for a vet drop and 25 for a normal drop. That way, if you still have not gotten your item after 25 runs, you can buy it, or just vendor the tokens for 500g a piece or whatever. The only "exploit" would be that someone could farm tokens on normal 50 times then run vMA once to get their drop, but that still seems like the player has invested an appropriate amount of time in farming the item.

TheWoanderer · August 2020

Trying this on a bow/bow build has broken me.
Cannot get past the final stage of the frozen rink. I get hit by arrows but there is no one firing them.
If I die, I respawn in between the water, half in, half out... And just die again.
The lag means I am suddenly swarmed and unable to recover, being pushed into the water, breaking free and being pushed back even further... If I manage to get to the island, I cannot jump back onto it but if I do manage to I've taken so much damage I can't recover.
It's cost me a fortune in pots and repairs and just don't know what to do about it.
Sadly I need perfected version to recover the loss of a monster set that my build requires.

Any suggestions would be wonderful. I've followed guides but just cannot seem to crack that last part of the stage 🤔

zvavi · August 2020

TheWoanderer wrote: »

Trying this on a bow/bow build has broken me.
Cannot get past the final stage of the frozen rink. I get hit by arrows but there is no one firing them.
If I die, I respawn in between the water, half in, half out... And just die again.
The lag means I am suddenly swarmed and unable to recover, being pushed into the water, breaking free and being pushed back even further... If I manage to get to the island, I cannot jump back onto it but if I do manage to I've taken so much damage I can't recover.
It's cost me a fortune in pots and repairs and just don't know what to do about it.
Sadly I need perfected version to recover the loss of a monster set that my build requires.

Any suggestions would be wonderful. I've followed guides but just cannot seem to crack that last part of the stage 🤔

If you are on about the ice platform of stage 5, for low experience, I would recommend slowing down on boss while keep kiting him to not get hit, memories add spawn points, precast hail at the spot, then just nuke them as they come out. Rinse repeat. At last platform, drop hail, drop ultimate on boss, and burn.

TheWoanderer · August 2020

zvavi wrote: »

TheWoanderer wrote: »

Trying this on a bow/bow build has broken me.
Cannot get past the final stage of the frozen rink. I get hit by arrows but there is no one firing them.
If I die, I respawn in between the water, half in, half out... And just die again.
The lag means I am suddenly swarmed and unable to recover, being pushed into the water, breaking free and being pushed back even further... If I manage to get to the island, I cannot jump back onto it but if I do manage to I've taken so much damage I can't recover.
It's cost me a fortune in pots and repairs and just don't know what to do about it.
Sadly I need perfected version to recover the loss of a monster set that my build requires.

Any suggestions would be wonderful. I've followed guides but just cannot seem to crack that last part of the stage 🤔

If you are on about the ice platform of stage 5, for low experience, I would recommend slowing down on boss while keep kiting him to not get hit, memories add spawn points, precast hail at the spot, then just nuke them as they come out. Rinse repeat. At last platform, drop hail, drop ultimate on boss, and burn.

It's the last stage that bugs out. When the matron and troll and adds all spawn. If I get lag, I'm swarmed, knocked back into the water and struggle to get back on the island. If no lag, I manage to clear the troll and manage to clear the adds, I've grabbed the two sigils but can't seem to get the matron down quick enough, and die mostly from being in the water but the damage shows me dying from, not just the matron, it shows for example that I've died from poisoned arrows but there are no adds as I cleared them already. This is also where I respawn stuck in the water.
I'm CP810 and have resorted to running with Tzogvin's Warband and Briarheart with Slimecraw but usually run with Tzogvin's Warband and Twice Fanged Serpent with Grundwulf. I use endless hail and caltrops as aoe, lethal injection and draining shot, leeching strikes, bone shield and turn evil. I'm sure I could possibly use better skills but am unsure as to what.
A lot of my skills reduce damage taken, heal me and supposedly increase stamina recovery (turn evil)

Any suggestions?

Appreciate the response
W'o'a

PS. Its quite embarrassing when members of my guild are clearing it at cp300 and their GM is unable to do it at CP810 lol....

zvavi · August 2020

TheWoanderer wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

TheWoanderer wrote: »

Trying this on a bow/bow build has broken me.
Cannot get past the final stage of the frozen rink. I get hit by arrows but there is no one firing them.
If I die, I respawn in between the water, half in, half out... And just die again.
The lag means I am suddenly swarmed and unable to recover, being pushed into the water, breaking free and being pushed back even further... If I manage to get to the island, I cannot jump back onto it but if I do manage to I've taken so much damage I can't recover.
It's cost me a fortune in pots and repairs and just don't know what to do about it.
Sadly I need perfected version to recover the loss of a monster set that my build requires.

Any suggestions would be wonderful. I've followed guides but just cannot seem to crack that last part of the stage 🤔

If you are on about the ice platform of stage 5, for low experience, I would recommend slowing down on boss while keep kiting him to not get hit, memories add spawn points, precast hail at the spot, then just nuke them as they come out. Rinse repeat. At last platform, drop hail, drop ultimate on boss, and burn.

It's the last stage that bugs out. When the matron and troll and adds all spawn. If I get lag, I'm swarmed, knocked back into the water and struggle to get back on the island. If no lag, I manage to clear the troll and manage to clear the adds, I've grabbed the two sigils but can't seem to get the matron down quick enough, and die mostly from being in the water but the damage shows me dying from, not just the matron, it shows for example that I've died from poisoned arrows but there are no adds as I cleared them already. This is also where I respawn stuck in the water.
I'm CP810 and have resorted to running with Tzogvin's Warband and Briarheart with Slimecraw but usually run with Tzogvin's Warband and Twice Fanged Serpent with Grundwulf. I use endless hail and caltrops as aoe, lethal injection and draining shot, leeching strikes, bone shield and turn evil. I'm sure I could possibly use better skills but am unsure as to what.
A lot of my skills reduce damage taken, heal me and supposedly increase stamina recovery (turn evil)

Any suggestions?

Appreciate the response
W'o'a

PS. Its quite embarrassing when members of my guild are clearing it at cp300 and their GM is unable to do it at CP810 lol....

The only timed mechanic there is the troll, so adds spawn on boss %. This is exactly why my suggestion was slow down damage, and focus the adds down. First pack is archer+2h, spawns between first island and right island, second is mage+archer+2h(mage spawns a wolf too) spawns between left and right island. If you manage to kill those 2 add packs before they kill you, you are good to go. Just slow down the damage on boss, focus down the ghastly ladies in single target when they are up so u kill them before additional adds,
So the tactic is dmg boss a tiny bit, get adds, kill adds, dmg boss, get him to destroy platform, get ghosty, dmg boss a bit, adds, boss, platform, ghosty, nuke boss on 3rd platform. (With killing trolls when they come out, but you have heads up, so don't get adds spawned before you kill him).

For nuking him, lay down you hail+caltrops, lethal injection, then bow Ultimate+ spam strongest single target skill. Should totally have enough damage to nuke the guy. I never got rid of the last add pack so I am not even sure when it spawns, but try getting boss to 25% before you start nuking.