josiahva wrote: »

I don't know that this set is used by much anyone anymore. I myself still use it fairly often on my tank when I need raw resources. My request has nothing to do with the buffs themselves, they are what they are(a buff might be nice though). What happens with this set is I will equip it, and go grab my secondary mundus stone(usually max magicka, but sometimes regen), but then in the middle of content for some reason I need to swap to a different set that will do something different...all well and good, but then I swap back to TBS(its a nice default set for pugging) and bam...I have lost my secondary mundus boon, and I have to go grab it again....can you please change this so that that the secondary buff doesnt fall off on removal? That it just becomes inactive until re-equipped?

there are sets that give normal number stats that are better. its pretty obsolete. theres tons of obsolete sets.

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

I don't know that this set is used by much anyone anymore. I myself still use it fairly often on my tank when I need raw resources. My request has nothing to do with the buffs themselves, they are what they are(a buff might be nice though). What happens with this set is I will equip it, and go grab my secondary mundus stone(usually max magicka, but sometimes regen), but then in the middle of content for some reason I need to swap to a different set that will do something different...all well and good, but then I swap back to TBS(its a nice default set for pugging) and bam...I have lost my secondary mundus boon, and I have to go grab it again....can you please change this so that that the secondary buff doesnt fall off on removal? That it just becomes inactive until re-equipped?

there are sets that give normal number stats that are better. its pretty obsolete. theres tons of obsolete sets.

Ones that give all 3 stats? There might be, I just don't know them offhand, I end up with something like 4.6k health, 4.1k magicka, and 1.1k stam from TBS(or flip stam and magicka if needed). I am not aware of other sets that give as many raw stats of all three types.....and certainly no others give the versatility of swapping to something else in a few mins if needed like regen or resistances, etc

Honestly it needs a buff. Put in extra stats, probably weapon/spell power on the 4th set bonus, and move the 4th set bonus to the 3th. Together with the divines buff (~20%) it should be bit more viable then.

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Twice born needs an add on buff like boons selected gain 50% more power give it some heft again over some of the lower trait easy mode to get craft sets

Or roll the stam and mag into the 2pc health 3pc and wep and spell crit as a 4th plus the effect i mentioned above

I think that this is a very intriguing idea.

@josiahva You're sort of double-counting the bonuses. TBS is only giving you one Mundus as its 5-piece (so ~2000 base Magicka in your case), you already would have had access to the first one. That is actually pretty weak as far as 5-piece bonuses go and is easily out-classed by Alfiq, Necropotence, Bright-Throat's, and Destruction Mastery.

The ability to toggle Mundus Stones is nice but it's more of a quality-of-life bonus than an actual bonus and is certainly not something that could or should be considered for the purposes of the mathematical balancing of sets.

I think the only time that TBS is really a value is on hybrid builds that can double-dip from certain of the Mundus Stones (e.g. Thief, Shadow, Lover) and only then when you are stacking 2 of those 3 Stones.

Those would all be great sets...if max Magicka was the only stat I needed...but those sets do nothing for stamina and health...and tri-boosts are generally what I need for a tank, but you are also correct, the 5-piece really gives something like 3.1k magicka at best, its not great

Yeah the extra mundus normally comes in at approx 2x a normal set bonus, which is less than the standard that basic five piece bonuses give you, which are normally at 2.3x a normal set bonus.
Using 7 divines obviously bumps this up, to around 3.2x a normal set bonus, but this unfortunately isn't enough to overcome the rather lacklustre 2-4 piece bonuses. Even in PvP, where the health and off stat are useful, you are better off getting those from thing like tri-glyphs that have higher stat density and using a more focused five piece set.
As such its always going to be behind a simple stat based set that is more focused.

While I think the 5 piece bonus is probably ok (given that it can either weaker or stronger than a standard five piece depending on your investment in divines), I really think it could benefit from a rework of the 2-4 piece bonuses. As suggested by others, maybe by combining the stam and mag bonuses into a single line and adding some other hybrid bonus in the free slot (similar to how many other hybrid sets were adjusted this PTS).

This set needs to be worked on in order to make it more universally useful. Sadly this is the "ESO standards to sets" patch and nothing is happening here. Guess it will still be a de facto legacy set for a long time to come.

They should make it something like this:
2pc - health
3pc - WC/SC
4pc - WD/SD
5pc - 2 Mundus

It would be useful but not necessary bis.

josiahva wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

Yeah the extra mundus normally comes in at approx 2x a normal set bonus, which is less than the standard that basic five piece bonuses give you, which are normally at 2.3x a normal set bonus.
Using 7 divines obviously bumps this up, to around 3.2x a normal set bonus, but this unfortunately isn't enough to overcome the rather lacklustre 2-4 piece bonuses. Even in PvP, where the health and off stat are useful, you are better off getting those from thing like tri-glyphs that have higher stat density and using a more focused five piece set.
As such its always going to be behind a simple stat based set that is more focused.

While I think the 5 piece bonus is probably ok (given that it can either weaker or stronger than a standard five piece depending on your investment in divines), I really think it could benefit from a rework of the 2-4 piece bonuses. As suggested by others, maybe by combining the stam and mag bonuses into a single line and adding some other hybrid bonus in the free slot (similar to how many other hybrid sets were adjusted this PTS).

I absolutely agree where it comes to DPS, TBS is in dire need of a buff, but it STILL provides more raw stats than anything else assuming 7 divines. I considered a combination of Trainee(at its new 3-piece) and Torc of Tonal Constancy....and still end up with a 1.2k raw stat loss even with Triune...though it gives more recovery, which might offset that, but in that case Trainee+ AS/BRP/MA/DSA sword and board is probably a better choice.

I understand most other sets have a more useful 5 piece, and I carry several such sets for certain situations, but when I want raw stats, TBS is still my go-to since I haven't found anything better that boosts all 3(not since they nerfed the original iteration of Trainee anyway)

This is more a feature of there being a lack of sets that just give stats to compare it to. The ability of TBS to give you stats via mundus makes it basically the only one that does so. And even then it relies on having 7x divines to actually be worth it, which has an opportunity cost vs using infused on the chest/legs/head as this would normally be better, especially if using prismatic glyphs.

For example, by my estimate you would actually get almost the same total stats (using PTS values) from

3x trainee + 2x willpower + 3x infused on head/chest/legs + 4x divines on rest + health mundus + 7 prismatic enchants

as

5x TBS + 7 divines + health mundus + magicka mundus + 7 prismatic enchants

This first option above ends up about with almost identical health, -900 magicka, and +700 stam. So -200 overall. And it seems odd that a combination of one 3 piece sets and 2/3 of another can almost match the full five piece of TBS in what is the best case scenario for TBS. Plus its not even using the strongest available 2 piece as arguably there are better choices than 2 piece willpower, such as weapon sets as you suggest. Personally I think for your case I think simply Trainee + a weapon set as you suggest would actually be better than TBS - sure its a bit less stats but what you gain from the weapon set should more than make up for it.

Mettaricana wrote: »

Could split the set into a 3 type set with a buff give it new crafting stations as a 3rd part add on to craglorn. Of just as a set of game revamps

Twice born star the serpent

2pc stamina
3pc wep crit
4pc wep dmg
5pc *stamina* 2 mundus stones + 50% power to mundus chosen

Twice born star the mage

2pc magicka
3pc spell crit
4pc spell dmg
5pc *magicka*2 mundus stones + 50% power to mundus chosen

Twice born star the warrior

2pc health
3pc health recovery
4pc armor
5pc *health*, 2 mundus stones + 50% power to mundus chosen

Personally I don't think the 5 piece needs such a buff. In the examples above you would end up with the 5 piece being significantly too powerful - it would be about 4x a normal set bonus with no divines, or more than 5x a normal set bonus if you have 7x divines. This is way more than the normal 2.3x normal set bonus that is standard for a five piece.

For example the 5 piece bonus of the magicka variant above with apprentice would give 238*(1+0.5) = 357 spell damage or with 7x divines 238*(1+0.5+7*0.091) = 508 spell damage in addition to the magicka. Even without divines this outstrips something like Julianos on damage alone, before even considering the bonus magicka, and with divines it would be the even stronger than all the conditional damage buffs, yet apply to everything, in addition to the bonus magicka.

As it is the existing five piece bonus of TBS is actually numerically stronger than the standard if you have 7 divines (but worse if you have none). This seems like a reasonably fair place for it to be, especially given the flexibility it gives. As such I think the five piece is probably OK but would instead be in favour of an update to the 2-4 piece bonuses instead to make the set a bit more appealing.