Maintenance for the week of September 15:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Making everything one-shots in VetDLC punish the supports too much
-
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »One-shot mechanics punish those who do not follow the mechanics. It has nothing to do with the role the player is in. Everyone needs to follow the mechanics or they are letting down the group.
Agreed. I always see people talk about mechanics being #1 priority rather than upping DPS etc <On other forums> to just turn around and say they got one shot by a mechanic and died to it which is unfair 0_0.
Let me look at it like this. If a mechanic can be healed without killing you then it can be burned.
The problem, as I see it, is that a one shot mechanic makes healing and mitigation completely useless. On the other hand, a damage mechanic that takes a few second to kill someone (and may be harder to avoid that a one-shot) actually benefits from having a healer (or a tankier build otherwise).
While I agree that the overall design of ESO does not have the constant unavoidable raid-wide damage as is found in other games and reduces the need for healers. However, that does not mean one-shot mechanics are a problem.
In any MMORPG, including ESO, I would take a player that paid attention and followed the mechanics vs better DPS. For tanks, it is an absolute requirement.
Right, @idk.
I have a more concise take on some of the opinions in this thread, though:
"How do we get dungeon clears without learning any of the mechanics?"
Except that's not what it is at all. There are tons of way to make dungeons challenging without relying on one shots. As-is, dungeon mechanics pretty much consist of one shots and DPS checks. I think it would be nice if there were also a few healing or mitigation (or general survivability) checks too.
Additionally, there are tons of cases where you can bypass mechanics with high DPS. Why shouldn't you be able to do the same with high HPS or great mitigation?
Not really.
Making it so a healer can heal everyone through the damage makes the mechanics trivial and meaningless. The difference between challenging content and simple normal modes is having mechanics that put the group in jeopardy when someone fails to do what they needed to do. Normal difficulty mode is available for those not up for that challenge.2 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I got 1 shot , not from DLC mechanics but a single heavy attack
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6up9lPcdw
7 heavy 7 sturdy , 810 cp , normal tank cp setting
Hp was a bit low , 34k , I know I could roll dodge , but I am not 100% guarantee I could dodge the HA because Im a high ping player , what I mean is
HA > Roll dodge > Missed > Return block form
HA > Roll dodge > Return block form > got 1 shot , always happen to high ping player
I felt pretty shocked at that moment
The 1st heavy attack I survived by Bani's Torment effect , the Major Maim was up .
The 2nd heavy attack killed me , hit 41k when I held block ROFL !Edited by ccfeeling on August 5, 2020 3:10AM0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I got 1 shot , not from DLC mechanics but a single heavy attackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6up9lPcdw
7 heavy 7 sturdy , 810 cp , normal tank cp setting
Hp was a bit low , 34k , I know I could roll dodge , but I am not 100% guarantee I could dodge the HA because Im a high ping player , what I mean is
HA > Roll dodge > Missed > Return block form
HA > Roll dodge > Return block form > got 1 shot , always happen to high ping player
I felt pretty shocked at that moment
The 1st heavy attack I survived by Bani's Torment effect , the Major Maim was up .
The 2nd heavy attack killed me , hit 41k when I held block ROFL !
Sorry to inform you but he hits that hard because you didn't keep your defenses up. Your major buffs + minor protection were not active...ps sturdy doesn't mitigate damage.
Edit: why do you have inner fire double barred anyway? You could slot defensive stance on front bar instead for mitigation if you can't dodge... Also gives a nice shield to protect yourself...since it seems like you are lacking stamina skills as it is, your stamina is dropping way too low for someone not dodging and having 1 stamina skill on bar, stop blocking & heavy attack more for resources. And why balance & expensive cloak? You need only 1 major buff skill...Edited by zvavi on August 5, 2020 4:07AM1 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭That why Kagrenac is my go-to pug set.
People need buff and get rezzed fast in that type of content.
Heal is close to pointless since if they die it's 90% of the time because a OS.
And when people become good, you're here, looking them to do all the job while just throwing few buff feeling useless.
Healing at high level in this game is the most horrible feeling I ever had in 20 year of playing Healer.
When you and the crew become good at the point where you get every DLc achievement, you just have to drop your healer for a DDs or feel useless/be replaced.
Even in raid like vSS HM you just need 1 healer and the second is just an off-dps...
This game is extremely bad designed for healer.
Tank are still way more in demand than healer in end-game.[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]1 -
the1andonlyskwex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »One-shot mechanics punish those who do not follow the mechanics. It has nothing to do with the role the player is in. Everyone needs to follow the mechanics or they are letting down the group.
Agreed. I always see people talk about mechanics being #1 priority rather than upping DPS etc <On other forums> to just turn around and say they got one shot by a mechanic and died to it which is unfair 0_0.
Let me look at it like this. If a mechanic can be healed without killing you then it can be burned.
The problem, as I see it, is that a one shot mechanic makes healing and mitigation completely useless. On the other hand, a damage mechanic that takes a few second to kill someone (and may be harder to avoid that a one-shot) actually benefits from having a healer (or a tankier build otherwise).
While I agree that the overall design of ESO does not have the constant unavoidable raid-wide damage as is found in other games and reduces the need for healers. However, that does not mean one-shot mechanics are a problem.
In any MMORPG, including ESO, I would take a player that paid attention and followed the mechanics vs better DPS. For tanks, it is an absolute requirement.
Right, @idk.
I have a more concise take on some of the opinions in this thread, though:
"How do we get dungeon clears without learning any of the mechanics?"
Except that's not what it is at all. There are tons of way to make dungeons challenging without relying on one shots. As-is, dungeon mechanics pretty much consist of one shots and DPS checks. I think it would be nice if there were also a few healing or mitigation (or general survivability) checks too.
Additionally, there are tons of cases where you can bypass mechanics with high DPS. Why shouldn't you be able to do the same with high HPS or great mitigation?
Not really.
Making it so a healer can heal everyone through the damage makes the mechanics trivial and meaningless. The difference between challenging content and simple normal modes is having mechanics that put the group in jeopardy when someone fails to do what they needed to do. Normal difficulty mode is available for those not up for that challenge.
You are so wrong I'm having trouble deciding how to reply. Some options include:
1) The fact that the DPS doesn't need to do anything special doesn't mean the mechanic doesn't exist or is trivial. Just as bosses can have enrage mechanics that punish poor DPS, it's possible (and reasonable) to have mechanics that punish poor healing or poor tanking.
2) It's possible to create mechanics where the DPS (or tank) have to do something special to reduce the damage they take to a point where the healer can keep up. This sort of mechanic would at least involve/require healing (and/or damage mitigation), unlike most of what exists now. Mechanics don't need to be binary where you either die instantly or take no damage at all.
You can even tune this sort of mechanic to require above average healing even when everyone else does everything right, resulting in something even harder than a one-shot.
3) You could reduce DPS and tank self healing, increasing the burden on healers.
4) You can have mechanics that one shot DPS and heals without one-shotting properly built tanks, requiring the tank to hold aggro (ESO actually has a fair amount of this in non-DLC vet dungeons). You can even include cleave mechanics requiring the tank to position themselves so that their teammates don't get hit.
The possibilities are really endless. I would hope ZOS's encounter designers have more imagination than you do, but they haven't exactly shown it lately if they do.6 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I got 1 shot , not from DLC mechanics but a single heavy attackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6up9lPcdw
7 heavy 7 sturdy , 810 cp , normal tank cp setting
Hp was a bit low , 34k , I know I could roll dodge , but I am not 100% guarantee I could dodge the HA because Im a high ping player , what I mean is
HA > Roll dodge > Missed > Return block form
HA > Roll dodge > Return block form > got 1 shot , always happen to high ping player
I felt pretty shocked at that moment
The 1st heavy attack I survived by Bani's Torment effect , the Major Maim was up .
The 2nd heavy attack killed me , hit 41k when I held block ROFL !
Sorry to inform you but he hits that hard because you didn't keep your defenses up. Your major buffs + minor protection were not active...ps sturdy doesn't mitigate damage.
True , sturdy couldn't help at all .
I don't wanna take the risk to swap bar for rebuffs , usually it takes about 0.5 sec , it's not fast like PC , bar swapping has no protection too , it means no block , if I swap bar , back to the main bar , I will have 2 more chances to get 1 shot ...
I lost major resistance buff and minor protection atm , I think the physical resistance dropped to 25k atm , but hit 41k was terrible during block , isn't it ?0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭One-shots are how [snip] simulate challenge without putting in the effort and creativity to come up with real challenges. The only thing more depressing than seeing them is seeing players who fall for and defend the strategy.
[edited for bashing]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on August 5, 2020 3:52PM"A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle3 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I got 1 shot , not from DLC mechanics but a single heavy attackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6up9lPcdw
7 heavy 7 sturdy , 810 cp , normal tank cp setting
Hp was a bit low , 34k , I know I could roll dodge , but I am not 100% guarantee I could dodge the HA because Im a high ping player , what I mean is
HA > Roll dodge > Missed > Return block form
HA > Roll dodge > Return block form > got 1 shot , always happen to high ping player
I felt pretty shocked at that moment
The 1st heavy attack I survived by Bani's Torment effect , the Major Maim was up .
The 2nd heavy attack killed me , hit 41k when I held block ROFL !
Sorry to inform you but he hits that hard because you didn't keep your defenses up. Your major buffs + minor protection were not active...ps sturdy doesn't mitigate damage.
True , sturdy couldn't help at all .
I don't wanna take the risk to swap bar for rebuffs , usually it takes about 0.5 sec , it's not fast like PC , bar swapping has no protection too , it means no block , if I swap bar , back to the main bar , I will have 2 more chances to get 1 shot ...
I lost major resistance buff and minor protection atm , I think the physical resistance dropped to 25k atm , but hit 41k was terrible during block , isn't it ?
To be honest I have no idea how it is on console. I just know that when there is 1 left & he heavy attacked a moment ago it means I have time to rebuff myself.0 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭I got 1 shot , not from DLC mechanics but a single heavy attackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6up9lPcdw
7 heavy 7 sturdy , 810 cp , normal tank cp setting
Hp was a bit low , 34k , I know I could roll dodge , but I am not 100% guarantee I could dodge the HA because Im a high ping player , what I mean is
HA > Roll dodge > Missed > Return block form
HA > Roll dodge > Return block form > got 1 shot , always happen to high ping player
I felt pretty shocked at that moment
The 1st heavy attack I survived by Bani's Torment effect , the Major Maim was up .
The 2nd heavy attack killed me , hit 41k when I held block ROFL !
Sorry to inform you but he hits that hard because you didn't keep your defenses up. Your major buffs + minor protection were not active...ps sturdy doesn't mitigate damage.
True , sturdy couldn't help at all .
I don't wanna take the risk to swap bar for rebuffs , usually it takes about 0.5 sec , it's not fast like PC , bar swapping has no protection too , it means no block , if I swap bar , back to the main bar , I will have 2 more chances to get 1 shot ...
I lost major resistance buff and minor protection atm , I think the physical resistance dropped to 25k atm , but hit 41k was terrible during block , isn't it ?
Why bar swap ? you've balance in the front-bar that give this buff. Minor protection was not needed, you just didn't have major resolve on you.
Anyway that not why you'r dead here. You've cast a forest, so you was not blocking when getting hit.Edited by Aznarb on August 5, 2020 4:15AM[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »One-shot mechanics punish those who do not follow the mechanics. It has nothing to do with the role the player is in. Everyone needs to follow the mechanics or they are letting down the group.
Agreed. I always see people talk about mechanics being #1 priority rather than upping DPS etc <On other forums> to just turn around and say they got one shot by a mechanic and died to it which is unfair 0_0.
Let me look at it like this. If a mechanic can be healed without killing you then it can be burned.
The problem, as I see it, is that a one shot mechanic makes healing and mitigation completely useless. On the other hand, a damage mechanic that takes a few second to kill someone (and may be harder to avoid that a one-shot) actually benefits from having a healer (or a tankier build otherwise).
While I agree that the overall design of ESO does not have the constant unavoidable raid-wide damage as is found in other games and reduces the need for healers. However, that does not mean one-shot mechanics are a problem.
In any MMORPG, including ESO, I would take a player that paid attention and followed the mechanics vs better DPS. For tanks, it is an absolute requirement.
Right, @idk.
I have a more concise take on some of the opinions in this thread, though:
"How do we get dungeon clears without learning any of the mechanics?"
Except that's not what it is at all. There are tons of way to make dungeons challenging without relying on one shots. As-is, dungeon mechanics pretty much consist of one shots and DPS checks. I think it would be nice if there were also a few healing or mitigation (or general survivability) checks too.
Additionally, there are tons of cases where you can bypass mechanics with high DPS. Why shouldn't you be able to do the same with high HPS or great mitigation?
Not really.
Making it so a healer can heal everyone through the damage makes the mechanics trivial and meaningless. The difference between challenging content and simple normal modes is having mechanics that put the group in jeopardy when someone fails to do what they needed to do. Normal difficulty mode is available for those not up for that challenge.
You are so wrong I'm having trouble deciding how to reply. Some options include:
1) The fact that the DPS doesn't need to do anything special doesn't mean the mechanic doesn't exist or is trivial. Just as bosses can have enrage mechanics that punish poor DPS, it's possible (and reasonable) to have mechanics that punish poor healing or poor tanking.
2) It's possible to create mechanics where the DPS (or tank) have to do something special to reduce the damage they take to a point where the healer can keep up. This sort of mechanic would at least involve/require healing (and/or damage mitigation), unlike most of what exists now. Mechanics don't need to be binary where you either die instantly or take no damage at all.
You can even tune this sort of mechanic to require above average healing even when everyone else does everything right, resulting in something even harder than a one-shot.
3) You could reduce DPS and tank self healing, increasing the burden on healers.
4) You can have mechanics that one shot DPS and heals without one-shotting properly built tanks, requiring the tank to hold aggro (ESO actually has a fair amount of this in non-DLC vet dungeons). You can even include cleave mechanics requiring the tank to position themselves so that their teammates don't get hit.
The possibilities are really endless. I would hope ZOS's encounter designers have more imagination than you do, but they haven't exactly shown it lately if they do.
1. But mechanics like that do exist. Take for example fv 2nd boss, if tank doesn't stack the adds on boss it makes the boss much longer (and more annoying). If there is no healer and dps is lacking the fire aoe's dps check gonna wipe your group.
2. Well. Defiles exist. Take vDoM for example, you need to use 5 different skills from the moment you got the aoe circle on you or everyone (but tank) gets dmg + defile. And don't get me started about vMGF HM. So defiles & healer mechanics exist, just that everyone hates them with passion even more.
3. Yes, because punishing the group with a wipe every time the healer drops dead will be soooooo fun in pug. I swear to god the amount of healers in pug that gets carried through dlc dungeons without doing anything & dying is huge.
4. mechanics like that exist though icereach is full of such mechanics. You should check the thread asking why nobody wants to run it.
So essentially you want to feel more useful on your healer. I get it. I feel like it too when I pug dungeons on my dk heal. So I find *** to do. I chain adds, I give resources, I debuff, I deal a bit of damage, but I don't cry on the forums asking for healer mechanics that already exists...1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I got 1 shot , not from DLC mechanics but a single heavy attackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6up9lPcdw
7 heavy 7 sturdy , 810 cp , normal tank cp setting
Hp was a bit low , 34k , I know I could roll dodge , but I am not 100% guarantee I could dodge the HA because Im a high ping player , what I mean is
HA > Roll dodge > Missed > Return block form
HA > Roll dodge > Return block form > got 1 shot , always happen to high ping player
I felt pretty shocked at that moment
The 1st heavy attack I survived by Bani's Torment effect , the Major Maim was up .
The 2nd heavy attack killed me , hit 41k when I held block ROFL !
Sorry to inform you but he hits that hard because you didn't keep your defenses up. Your major buffs + minor protection were not active...ps sturdy doesn't mitigate damage.
True , sturdy couldn't help at all .
I don't wanna take the risk to swap bar for rebuffs , usually it takes about 0.5 sec , it's not fast like PC , bar swapping has no protection too , it means no block , if I swap bar , back to the main bar , I will have 2 more chances to get 1 shot ...
I lost major resistance buff and minor protection atm , I think the physical resistance dropped to 25k atm , but hit 41k was terrible during block , isn't it ?
Why bar swap ? you've balance in the front-bar that give this buff. Minor protection was not needed, you just didn't have major resolve on you.
Anyway that not why you'r dead here. You've cast a forest, so you was not blocking when getting hit.
Hello friend, if you cast a skill while blocking, you are still blocking. It is something all tanks should know. This tanking style is called "permablocking". Sadly while you barswap you drop block for a small moment, this is why bad tanks use only 1 bar.1 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭I got 1 shot , not from DLC mechanics but a single heavy attackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6up9lPcdw
7 heavy 7 sturdy , 810 cp , normal tank cp setting
Hp was a bit low , 34k , I know I could roll dodge , but I am not 100% guarantee I could dodge the HA because Im a high ping player , what I mean is
HA > Roll dodge > Missed > Return block form
HA > Roll dodge > Return block form > got 1 shot , always happen to high ping player
I felt pretty shocked at that moment
The 1st heavy attack I survived by Bani's Torment effect , the Major Maim was up .
The 2nd heavy attack killed me , hit 41k when I held block ROFL !
Sorry to inform you but he hits that hard because you didn't keep your defenses up. Your major buffs + minor protection were not active...ps sturdy doesn't mitigate damage.
True , sturdy couldn't help at all .
I don't wanna take the risk to swap bar for rebuffs , usually it takes about 0.5 sec , it's not fast like PC , bar swapping has no protection too , it means no block , if I swap bar , back to the main bar , I will have 2 more chances to get 1 shot ...
I lost major resistance buff and minor protection atm , I think the physical resistance dropped to 25k atm , but hit 41k was terrible during block , isn't it ?
Why bar swap ? you've balance in the front-bar that give this buff. Minor protection was not needed, you just didn't have major resolve on you.
Anyway that not why you'r dead here. You've cast a forest, so you was not blocking when getting hit.
Hello friend, if you cast a skill while blocking, you are still blocking. It is something all tanks should know. This tanking style is called "permablocking". Sadly while you barswap you drop block for a small moment, this is why bad tanks use only 1 bar.
That doesn't work for the forest who have a long animation and that not the only skill like this that prevent you from blocking.
And again, he doesn't needed to bar swap to get major resolve, if you look the video balance is on his main bar.
I've play warden tank for a while too and have 3 other tank that have do a big chunk of content, so thank but I know how to play tank :>
You can clearly see this on the video when the block get dropped by the ult cast and immediately take the HA in the teeth.Edited by Aznarb on August 5, 2020 4:44AM[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I got 1 shot , not from DLC mechanics but a single heavy attackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6up9lPcdw
7 heavy 7 sturdy , 810 cp , normal tank cp setting
Hp was a bit low , 34k , I know I could roll dodge , but I am not 100% guarantee I could dodge the HA because Im a high ping player , what I mean is
HA > Roll dodge > Missed > Return block form
HA > Roll dodge > Return block form > got 1 shot , always happen to high ping player
I felt pretty shocked at that moment
The 1st heavy attack I survived by Bani's Torment effect , the Major Maim was up .
The 2nd heavy attack killed me , hit 41k when I held block ROFL !
Sorry to inform you but he hits that hard because you didn't keep your defenses up. Your major buffs + minor protection were not active...ps sturdy doesn't mitigate damage.
True , sturdy couldn't help at all .
I don't wanna take the risk to swap bar for rebuffs , usually it takes about 0.5 sec , it's not fast like PC , bar swapping has no protection too , it means no block , if I swap bar , back to the main bar , I will have 2 more chances to get 1 shot ...
I lost major resistance buff and minor protection atm , I think the physical resistance dropped to 25k atm , but hit 41k was terrible during block , isn't it ?
Why bar swap ? you've balance in the front-bar that give this buff. Minor protection was not needed, you just didn't have major resolve on you.
Anyway that not why you'r dead here. You've cast a forest, so you was not blocking when getting hit.
Hello friend, if you cast a skill while blocking, you are still blocking. It is something all tanks should know. This tanking style is called "permablocking". Sadly while you barswap you drop block for a small moment, this is why bad tanks use only 1 bar.
That doesn't work for the forest who have a long animation and that not the only skill like this that prevent you from blocking.
And again, he doesn't needed to bar swap to get major resolve, if you look the video balance is on his main bar.
I've play warden tank for a while too and have 3 other tank that have do a big chunk of content, so thank but I know how to play tank :>
You can clearly see this on the video when the block get dropped by the ult cast and immediately take the HA in the teeth.
You can also clearly see him taking 30k through block when major maim procced... PS: skills that stop block are cast time skills (or travel time skills, like shield charge), forest is instant cast, therefore doesn't drop block. Though you might be correct, and he wasn't blocking through the whole video thanks to server issues. (Since he didn't drop block on client server didn't update)Edited by zvavi on August 5, 2020 4:59AM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the1andonlyskwex wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »One-shot mechanics punish those who do not follow the mechanics. It has nothing to do with the role the player is in. Everyone needs to follow the mechanics or they are letting down the group.
Agreed. I always see people talk about mechanics being #1 priority rather than upping DPS etc <On other forums> to just turn around and say they got one shot by a mechanic and died to it which is unfair 0_0.
Let me look at it like this. If a mechanic can be healed without killing you then it can be burned.
The problem, as I see it, is that a one shot mechanic makes healing and mitigation completely useless. On the other hand, a damage mechanic that takes a few second to kill someone (and may be harder to avoid that a one-shot) actually benefits from having a healer (or a tankier build otherwise).
While I agree that the overall design of ESO does not have the constant unavoidable raid-wide damage as is found in other games and reduces the need for healers. However, that does not mean one-shot mechanics are a problem.
In any MMORPG, including ESO, I would take a player that paid attention and followed the mechanics vs better DPS. For tanks, it is an absolute requirement.
Right, @idk.
I have a more concise take on some of the opinions in this thread, though:
"How do we get dungeon clears without learning any of the mechanics?"
Except that's not what it is at all. There are tons of way to make dungeons challenging without relying on one shots. As-is, dungeon mechanics pretty much consist of one shots and DPS checks. I think it would be nice if there were also a few healing or mitigation (or general survivability) checks too.
Additionally, there are tons of cases where you can bypass mechanics with high DPS. Why shouldn't you be able to do the same with high HPS or great mitigation?
Not really.
Making it so a healer can heal everyone through the damage makes the mechanics trivial and meaningless. The difference between challenging content and simple normal modes is having mechanics that put the group in jeopardy when someone fails to do what they needed to do. Normal difficulty mode is available for those not up for that challenge.
You are so wrong I'm having trouble deciding how to reply. Some options include:
1) The fact that the DPS doesn't need to do anything special doesn't mean the mechanic doesn't exist or is trivial. Just as bosses can have enrage mechanics that punish poor DPS, it's possible (and reasonable) to have mechanics that punish poor healing or poor tanking.2) It's possible to create mechanics where the DPS (or tank) have to do something special to reduce the damage they take to a point where the healer can keep up. This sort of mechanic would at least involve/require healing (and/or damage mitigation), unlike most of what exists now. Mechanics don't need to be binary where you either die instantly or take no damage at all..
You can even tune this sort of mechanic to require above average healing even when everyone else does everything right, resulting in something even harder than a one-shot.
3) You could reduce DPS and tank self healing, increasing the burden on healers.
4) You can have mechanics that one shot DPS and heals without one-shotting properly built tanks, requiring the tank to hold aggro (ESO actually has a fair amount of this in non-DLC vet dungeons). You can even include cleave mechanics requiring the tank to position themselves so that their teammates don't get hit.
The possibilities are really endless. I would hope ZOS's encounter designers have more imagination than you do, but they haven't exactly shown it lately if they do
I stopped at this point. If DPS, and others in the group, do not need to do anything special (aka can ignore mechanics) then the mechanics are not meaningful. That means what I stated is absolutely correct.
ESO does not have true boss enrage mechanics so I do not know where that is coming from. Since you are saying something is possible and the possibilities are really endless I suggest you post some of those possibilities as I do not. Every game I have played those that did not pay attention and do what they needed to do when tackling the most challenging raids died most of the time and it was their fault, not the game's design. Again, Zos designed lesser challenging instances for those who are not interested in learning the mechanics for the more challenging instances.
Also, things like reducing self-healing for players to increase the burden on healers is irrelevant to one-shot mechanics. I have no problem with Zos adding some sort of damage aspect to keep the healers busy. I do have an issue with nerfing the challenge because people do not want to do anything special.
EDIT: BTW, there are fights that require healing for most groups such as the fire atro in WGT on vet, especially if the tank is going to actually tank the boss but even then it still takes players paying attention during the heavy damage phase of the atro or whoever is holding the atro will assuredly die. That is a great mechanic and I think it is a bad idea to make it so no on has to do anything special because that would make the mechanics meaningless.Edited by idk on August 5, 2020 5:08AM0 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I got 1 shot , not from DLC mechanics but a single heavy attackhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD6up9lPcdw
7 heavy 7 sturdy , 810 cp , normal tank cp setting
Hp was a bit low , 34k , I know I could roll dodge , but I am not 100% guarantee I could dodge the HA because Im a high ping player , what I mean is
HA > Roll dodge > Missed > Return block form
HA > Roll dodge > Return block form > got 1 shot , always happen to high ping player
I felt pretty shocked at that moment
The 1st heavy attack I survived by Bani's Torment effect , the Major Maim was up .
The 2nd heavy attack killed me , hit 41k when I held block ROFL !
Sorry to inform you but he hits that hard because you didn't keep your defenses up. Your major buffs + minor protection were not active...ps sturdy doesn't mitigate damage.
True , sturdy couldn't help at all .
I don't wanna take the risk to swap bar for rebuffs , usually it takes about 0.5 sec , it's not fast like PC , bar swapping has no protection too , it means no block , if I swap bar , back to the main bar , I will have 2 more chances to get 1 shot ...
I lost major resistance buff and minor protection atm , I think the physical resistance dropped to 25k atm , but hit 41k was terrible during block , isn't it ?
Why bar swap ? you've balance in the front-bar that give this buff. Minor protection was not needed, you just didn't have major resolve on you.
Anyway that not why you'r dead here. You've cast a forest, so you was not blocking when getting hit.
Aye , Forest won't drop block , I was really blocking
Balance was the last solution if I can't sustain , I don't cast it until I have no choice .
I underestimated the last Earthgore heavy attack power and I overestimated my warden tank defense , because I felt like I don't really need the resistance buff lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwGC0gdFpSg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buKzxSTf0HQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT_7-c3sg38
I tried different classes for BF , but I still can't believe I killed by the last Earthgore 1 single HA in non HM .
So , I will cast the resistance buff for my little warden tank in the future
Thanks your comments tho .0 -
Folks
(Thought I had posted this - so this might be out there already)
New to tanking. Currently, DK, Ebon/WP, with no food Health 40k, resist 33k. Have ran a few vet DLCs with my other toons. Not part of any guild so do not have that source to help, so I thought I would try forums.
Have been practicing tanking, and saw this thread and thought you folks might help. My "training" plan had been
1) base PUG, 2) base DLC, 3) vet base, 4) vet DLC. Currently somewhere in between stage 2 and 3.
On another thread, someone listed something like 9 things for a tank to be able to do, and number 1 was not to die. I have been getting the feeling that with the setup I have now, I am learning to do some of the other things of tanking cause I seem to be able to stand in front of a boss and "take it".
Started looking into level 4, and thru some experiences with my other toons, I got the impression that they were more about following and understanding the mechanics than anything else. As such, for my tank, it dawned on me that perhaps there were some vet DLC runs that are simply tougher than the vet base runs but do not rely on "ONE SHOTS' to test whether people are following the mechanics (rather than learning to tank in harder runs).
For instance, as a DPS, I wiped multiple times on vet Scalecaller, until I learned that I had to find the safety of the dropped shield. For me, putting my tank thru that - at this point - is not learning to tank. It is reinforcing the need to deal with the mechanics - since a tank cannot survive that final mechanic.
So, my question, are there some vet DLC runs that are just much tougher but without the "ONESHOT" mechanic that can only be avoided as opposed to being a better practiced or skilled tank?
Am I making any sense?
My purpose would be to see if I can split group 4 into 4a) tough but with "tankable" ONESHOTS and 4b) tough and including "untankable" ONESHOTS.
Any suggestions will be appreciated.Edited by Bitter_Apple21 on February 14, 2022 11:09PM0 -
Folks
Found something that might be what I am asking about.
Does this ranking seem to match what I am talking about above.
https://www.togetherwedelve.org/dungeons-by-difficulty0