People in trial guilds need to chill.

UglyTriangle · August 2020

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

I was literally bullied from like 2 trial guilds that i got invited to because I didn't want to specifically use the items they wanted or codes/notifier, am not sure why is it a requirement. why are average guilds expecting people to gear up and get ready like they are beating world records and speedrun records?. like, can we chill for a moment here. I cleared vSS as MT a while ago at cp 390 and I had to pretend I had notifier to get in and people said I did pretty good. and it was a pug lol.

Coming from WoW, it's not at all unusual for guilds to set addon requirements for raiders. That's not to say there aren't guilds who don't care what you play with, though as others have said it's important to talk about that piece of it prior to joining a guild.

Aigym_Hlervu · August 2020

I played alone for years. Though, I received some invitations to join some of the PvP guilds, I refused them politely because I understood that a guild was not something suitable to me and likewise I would not fit in it there too. Then it happened so that I began fighting in a specific Pact groups in Cyrodiil. Then I began forming my own groups and leading them into the battle using the battle tag to join used by those guys I was fighting along. My goal has always been to make those people whom I lead earn as much AP as possible, to make them be satisfied of the playsession, of taking keeps and participating in massive battles, to make them all feel victorius and go offline with a sense of an achieved goal and performed duty. Each time we win something I thank them and at the and of each session I always say, that it was honor to me to lead them in battle. Because it is, indeed. Later on it turned out, that most of the guys I played with were the members of a huge PvP guild fighting for the Pact only - they invited me and I accepted to be a part of it. Since that time I've been one of it's officers with my own battle tag. This is still the only guild I've been a member of and I'm proud of being it's part and proud of leading it's members and all who join us into the battle. I never discuss my guildmates in bad tones neither on public nor personally with anybody, and if I have any questions regarding the guild life, I never make it public even within the guild - I whisper or send a PM to the head of the guild directly. And if it happens they kick me for something, I still won't say a rude word towards them. I'll just go and play alone again. I think this is how it should work. If the guild's rules do not correspond to someone's ones then a honorful man should notify the guildmates, thank them and leave with honor. Otherwise such a man diserves to be kicked the way fitting enough to make him complain on a forum.

Everest_Lionheart · August 2020

Console player here, no add ons available to us. Our guild has requirements for vet trials. Tanks/Healers are expected to carry certain gear which is worked out before the trial gets under way for who is wearing what.

DPS has to upload a parse of minimum 50K to get in. I’m still trying to break 50 on all my DPS toons right now so I’m only part of the regular raid crew at the moment and still farming my gear for the vet group anyway.

They aren’t even discussing HM yet, just moving on from exclusively doing the regular stuff so they can get the perfected equipment. It’s a process and it’s a much a learning experience for everyone involved save for the trial organizers.

CyberSkooma · August 2020

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

While I completely understand why a guild would want them (namely, to help make sure that group members don't waste their finite time in wipes), I've always been of the opinion that things like Codes and Raid Notifier are like playing an FPS with Wall Hacks and Auto-Aim or a developer debug cheat engine.

Maybe so, but it doesn't really matter. If the guild requires it, then they require it. He can simply play with a guild that has different requirements.

Chaos2088 · August 2020

Like many people say, to be in vet trials gunna need a base line for damage. it is simple. But a good guild would want to pick you up and if you were willing teach you how to get to that point where you would be able to parse good numbers etc.

If they just bullied you saying you were lame for not knowing how or why, then yeah *** guild to be in and better off without.

If your choice not to do it then, well thats on you.

But people in gaming just need to chill in general, if you are not having fun....why do it?

thegreat_one · August 2020

You were not bullied.
You joined a group and didn't follow their requirements.

To avoid failure they kicked you.

Seems reasonable.

I pug'd a nCR+3, did everyone have notifier? NO! did I give a damn? NO. I just picked up the slack and we got it done.
Just cause I was able to do it once with this group doesn't mean the next one will go smooth.

Oh and if you lie about not having things, it will become obvious when your not avoiding mechanics.

SidraWillowsky · August 2020

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Like many people say, to be in vet trials gunna need a base line for damage. it is simple. But a good guild would want to pick you up and if you were willing teach you how to get to that point where you would be able to parse good numbers etc.

If they just bullied you saying you were lame for not knowing how or why, then yeah *** guild to be in and better off without.

If your choice not to do it then, well thats on you.

But people in gaming just need to chill in general, if you are not having fun....why do it?

This is not the impression I'm getting- it sounds like OP is unwilling to budge on this stuff and is frustrating people to the point that they don't even want to try to work with him. I'm in a very, very casual guild that's working on a weekly vMoL progression run, and we generally have a few people who are a bit below technical requirements. But we let them come because they're willing to listen, and things are going pretty well. If one of the more seasoned members wanted to run some off-meta build or do something differently, people would be willing to give it a shot, because they've shown in the past that they're generally competent. But if we were to bring in a brand-new person? Yeah, they're gonna have to listen to what we say at least once. All people need/want is to see that a person is competent, then I think the person has more room to make their own suggestions. But it's rude to refuse to listen to a group that you just met who has zero idea what your skill level and competencies are. I don't want someone to join us on a vMoL prog run unless it's clear that they're at the very least willing to learn.

And yeah, we're not looking to score push or anything, just finish vMoL and other harder vet trials. Even so, our loose organization of sets, skills, and ulti timing makes a massive difference in group performance. You don't have to be the best of the best -or wanting to be- to benefit from group optimization.

IDK how anyone here is defending OP. Sounds like a "common denominator" thing vs actual bullying.

Thechuckage · August 2020

buttaface wrote: »

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

I was literally bullied from like 2 trial guilds that i got invited to because I didn't want to specifically use the items they wanted or codes/notifier, am not sure why is it a requirement. why are average guilds expecting people to gear up and get ready like they are beating world records and speedrun records?. like, can we chill for a moment here. I cleared vSS as MT a while ago at cp 390 and I had to pretend I had notifier to get in and people said I did pretty good. and it was a pug lol.

Needs more information. What -specific- gear were they expecting and what -specific- add ons? What content, what type of progression team? What history or are they starting out themselves? There's a difference between expecting new tanks to farm and run specific hard trial gear and basic gear like torug's, ebon, dragonguard etc. Is their aim to be competitive? get achievements, just do the content? They should be very clear about the goals before giving a tank some laundry list.

Also, more importantly, were they willing to help you get the gear, or just "run this?" If the latter, avoid like the plague.

There are plenty of jerks in these games, and far less reasonable expectations for play in a CASUAL VIDEO GAME. If the former they did you a favor. If they were simply asking you to run single combat add-on that you can run and either get easy to get gear or HELP you get the gear, you may have unreasonable expectations.

This was pretty much the only reasonable response. We are given a small portion of the total picture and everyone is off to the races with their theories.

For OP, suggest you get guilds expectations up front and give them yours in turn. Save yourself potential pain at the get go.

nukk3r · August 2020

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

That's pretty low price for being allowed in high-end content, don't you think?

allowed in
Listen to yourself.

Sylvermynx · August 2020

I ran guilds in WoW and RIFT. They were of the "friends and family" sort - but we cleared a lot of content. Thing is.... we didn't have "reqs" - because it was "just us". Seriously. Just US - me, couple of long time gamer friends, daughter, SIL, g'daughters, nephew, his wife, several of their long time friends, their sigothers, some of their kids.... Seriously, it was literally all "friends and family".

We cleared a lot of content. We had fun. We.... didn't.... "expect" people to meet some arcane standard (er, well... other than nephew - but hey, he just had to bite it....) We got in and we did what we could. Sometimes we didn't do very well.... but we recovered and went back, did it again, and got better.

I miss that. But none of them other than me plays this game - and I'm SO not into group content here. *shudder* First thing... my ping is through the roof.... so.... not foisting that on anyone else....

ArchMikem · August 2020

JTD wrote: »

Cause gearing up in this game isn't hard and you can easily do it. It's not hard to optimize at a gear level, it's harder to optimize at an up-time level. Sounds like you need a casual friendly trial guild/group. It's all about expectation management.

And a dummy parse shows you can do your rotation in the most favorable circumstances to the best of your capabilities. It's a starting off point, if you can do 75k at a dummy there is a good chance you can do a good amount in an actual fight. If you can do 25k on a dummy you probably struggle in a real fight.

75k dummy parse. "Good" amount.

That kind of mentality is why a lot of players say Trial guilds need to chill. The expectations of what is considered good, or decent are through the roof and halfway to Masser. I can get my MagSorc an average parse of 30k and I've taken her through numerous vet Trials without issue.

MJallday · August 2020

Imagine needing add ons to
Complete a trial

- signed , the players on Xbox and PS4

xYureka · August 2020

75k DPS is only decent. Good is how I would describe it too.

Think of it this way, DPS numbers are like "levels". You can do harder contents at a lower "level" but you'll more likely than not be carried by your teammates who are much better and higher "level".

30k DPS is like getting a level 45 in your vet dungeons. Can you still finish it? Absolutely, but you'll feel it becoming harder. At times it might actually be impossible.

If you don't trust me, gather a pug of 30k DPS requirement and do vSS. You'll have a hard time completing it.

Protossyder · August 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

JTD wrote: »

Cause gearing up in this game isn't hard and you can easily do it. It's not hard to optimize at a gear level, it's harder to optimize at an up-time level. Sounds like you need a casual friendly trial guild/group. It's all about expectation management.

And a dummy parse shows you can do your rotation in the most favorable circumstances to the best of your capabilities. It's a starting off point, if you can do 75k at a dummy there is a good chance you can do a good amount in an actual fight. If you can do 25k on a dummy you probably struggle in a real fight.

75k dummy parse. "Good" amount.

That kind of mentality is why a lot of players say Trial guilds need to chill. The expectations of what is considered good, or decent are through the roof and halfway to Masser. I can get my MagSorc an average parse of 30k and I've taken her through numerous vet Trials without issue.

So just because you are too lazy to get gear and learn a rotation others need to lower their requirements? That's the mentality that gets on people's nerves. And how are those expectations "through the roof" if they can be met by showing a little ambition?

Xebov · August 2020

LuxLunae wrote: »

I was in one then they told me to parse a dummy. I ran. I am not about to parse a dummy. That isnt real world anyways.

It isnt real world, but you want 11 other ppl to spend real world time with you on a common goal. So they want to see first if you can actually do it or if they are just waisting their time.

ArchMikem wrote: »

That kind of mentality is why a lot of players say Trial guilds need to chill.

That mentality is what ensures that things get done in the first place and what makes the group compisition fair towards the supprot players. Sure you can go with less, but your chances of getting it done also shrink.

What i realy have ask here: Did you just spend 30s thinking about what your statement means for Tanks and Healers? As a Tank i already have to work on a certain performance level, all the time. Im not supposed to die and im not supposed to run out of resources. These are luxuries i dont have. Its the same for Healers. Now you complain about the dps requirement that some groups put on the table, but do you also know what it means for me? Its a simple scale, the less work dds do the more work tanks and healer have to do. If you say that your lower dps is good enought you pass the ball to me and tell me that i have to work harder to compensate for that. I have to deal with more adds and i have to deal with longer fights under high conentration. Also iam the one that gets blamed if it doesnt work out.

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

I'm not too fussy as long as people are trying and listen to advice given to them.

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

After all we were all new once.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · August 2020

xYureka wrote: »

75k DPS is only decent. Good is how I would describe it too.

Think of it this way, DPS numbers are like "levels". You can do harder contents at a lower "level" but you'll more likely than not be carried by your teammates who are much better and higher "level".

30k DPS is like getting a level 45 in your vet dungeons. Can you still finish it? Absolutely, but you'll feel it becoming harder. At times it might actually be impossible.

If you don't trust me, gather a pug of 30k DPS requirement and do vSS. You'll have a hard time completing it.

actually not, i know a guild that does not require sets etc, group dps is 300k - 400k and they complete all vet trials

Xebov · August 2020

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

actually not, i know a guild that does not require sets etc, group dps is 300k - 400k and they complete all vet trials

I bet these ppl do more than just 30k on a trial dummy.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · August 2020

Xebov wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

actually not, i know a guild that does not require sets etc, group dps is 300k - 400k and they complete all vet trials

I bet these ppl do more than just 30k on a trial dummy.

nope no test dummy is used its looked how they do in a trial, primary roles first, healer is just a healer, tanks are just tanks and dd's well as dd's, primary role comes first no matter what and alot on none meta aoe builds

witchdoctor · August 2020

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

nope no test dummy is used ...

Irrelevant to their point if the guild requires the parse or not. Their point was, *if* they parsed, its likely they do better than 30K.

Aznarb · August 2020

MJallday wrote: »

Imagine needing add ons to
Complete a trial

- signed , the players on Xbox and PS4

You'll be surprised how many "good" pc player can't play correctly w/o add-on.

Raudgrani · August 2020

I think it's pretty reasonable that trial groups have expectations. If there are rules for not showing up/showing up in time, that's ok. If there are some basic DPS requirements, that's ok. If they expect you to spec your CP's for a specific trial, that's ok.

Regarding what gear you use, I think that should be a matter of discussion. I mean, there are a lot of sets around now (and more coming) that will offer good group benefits. If every DD wears like Lokkestiiz or False God, that will likely be a weaker option, than what some other sets have to offer. If your DPS is notably lower than the others, but you are still "let in" because you are basically a good player, and a good friend - you could be better off wearing some of these sets that benefit groups.

I have a couple of friend that have tried out various trial groups. And some of those stories... Some groups expecting totally unrealistic DPS (that trial leaders probably don't match themselves!), some giving you the boot if you can't show up for a trial - even if you say so more than a week in advance. Some questioning the amount of sleep you need ("Why do you need to sleep so much? We could make 3 trials that night, not just one!"). And so on.

Never forget you are dealing with actual people here. Just as in real life, every "group of friends" or workplace just isn't for you. It has to be right, or at least not too different from what you expect/can tolerate.

Xebov · August 2020

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

actually not, i know a guild that does not require sets etc, group dps is 300k - 400k and they complete all vet trials

I bet these ppl do more than just 30k on a trial dummy.

nope no test dummy is used its looked how they do in a trial, primary roles first, healer is just a healer, tanks are just tanks and dd's well as dd's, primary role comes first no matter what and alot on none meta aoe builds

That doesnt matter. With average of 8 DDs and 300-400k total you are looking at 35-50k per DD. Some more some less. So overall they deal more than the 30k mentioned earlier and on a dummy they are likely to deal more than in a trial since its a static parse with perfect rotation possible.

Your guild still applies requirements, tehy just do it differently and the numbers you provide show that they all improved their characters on their own. If someone with barely 20k would come to them they would also not take them because their performance would be to bad.

Xebov · August 2020

Raudgrani wrote: »

Regarding what gear you use, I think that should be a matter of discussion. I mean, there are a lot of sets around now (and more coming) that will offer good group benefits. If every DD wears like Lokkestiiz or False God, that will likely be a weaker option, than what some other sets have to offer. If your DPS is notably lower than the others, but you are still "let in" because you are basically a good player, and a good friend - you could be better off wearing some of these sets that benefit groups.

I never saw a guild that required DDs to wear specific gear. They always only expect a parse with certain DPS and thats it. Gear is only a thing for Tanks and Healers to provide certain buffs. Even tehre its often discussable.

Raudgrani wrote: »

I have a couple of friend that have tried out various trial groups. And some of those stories... Some groups expecting totally unrealistic DPS (that trial leaders probably don't match themselves!), some giving you the boot if you can't show up for a trial - even if you say so more than a week in advance. Some questioning the amount of sleep you need ("Why do you need to sleep so much? We could make 3 trials that night, not just one!"). And so on.

Never seen or heard of things like that.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · August 2020

Xebov wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

actually not, i know a guild that does not require sets etc, group dps is 300k - 400k and they complete all vet trials

I bet these ppl do more than just 30k on a trial dummy.

nope no test dummy is used its looked how they do in a trial, primary roles first, healer is just a healer, tanks are just tanks and dd's well as dd's, primary role comes first no matter what and alot on none meta aoe builds

That doesnt matter. With average of 8 DDs and 300-400k total you are looking at 35-50k per DD. Some more some less. So overall they deal more than the 30k mentioned earlier and on a dummy they are likely to deal more than in a trial since its a static parse with perfect rotation possible.

Your guild still applies requirements, tehy just do it differently and the numbers you provide show that they all improved their characters on their own. If someone with barely 20k would come to them they would also not take them because their performance would be to bad.

the only requirements are doing ur role, and someone doing 20k is always welcome on them, it takes time to learn and you learn better in the event/trails/dungeons

Raudgrani · August 2020

Xebov wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Regarding what gear you use, I think that should be a matter of discussion. I mean, there are a lot of sets around now (and more coming) that will offer good group benefits. If every DD wears like Lokkestiiz or False God, that will likely be a weaker option, than what some other sets have to offer. If your DPS is notably lower than the others, but you are still "let in" because you are basically a good player, and a good friend - you could be better off wearing some of these sets that benefit groups.

I never saw a guild that required DDs to wear specific gear. They always only expect a parse with certain DPS and thats it. Gear is only a thing for Tanks and Healers to provide certain buffs. Even tehre its often discussable.

Raudgrani wrote: »

I have a couple of friend that have tried out various trial groups. And some of those stories... Some groups expecting totally unrealistic DPS (that trial leaders probably don't match themselves!), some giving you the boot if you can't show up for a trial - even if you say so more than a week in advance. Some questioning the amount of sleep you need ("Why do you need to sleep so much? We could make 3 trials that night, not just one!"). And so on.

Never seen or heard of things like that.

You never heard about it. Fine. It's still a reality.

xYureka · August 2020

Xebov wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

actually not, i know a guild that does not require sets etc, group dps is 300k - 400k and they complete all vet trials

I bet these ppl do more than just 30k on a trial dummy.

nope no test dummy is used its looked how they do in a trial, primary roles first, healer is just a healer, tanks are just tanks and dd's well as dd's, primary role comes first no matter what and alot on none meta aoe builds

That doesnt matter. With average of 8 DDs and 300-400k total you are looking at 35-50k per DD. Some more some less. So overall they deal more than the 30k mentioned earlier and on a dummy they are likely to deal more than in a trial since its a static parse with perfect rotation possible.

Your guild still applies requirements, tehy just do it differently and the numbers you provide show that they all improved their characters on their own. If someone with barely 20k would come to them they would also not take them because their performance would be to bad.

Totally agree. For example a 400k+/500k+ total DPS group on vSS lokke/yolnah would have a mixture of people parsing 60k to 90k on dummy to hit that group DPS. From my experience, 30k parses usually do about 10k to 20k DPS on real trials. Somewhere around 150k total DPS would be the right number.

Xebov · August 2020

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

the only requirements are doing ur role, and someone doing 20k is always welcome on them, it takes time to learn and you learn better in the event/trails/dungeons

The DD role still requires DPS and a good group can only take a small number of inexperiened ppl before they face issues.

SidraWillowsky · August 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

JTD wrote: »

Cause gearing up in this game isn't hard and you can easily do it. It's not hard to optimize at a gear level, it's harder to optimize at an up-time level. Sounds like you need a casual friendly trial guild/group. It's all about expectation management.

And a dummy parse shows you can do your rotation in the most favorable circumstances to the best of your capabilities. It's a starting off point, if you can do 75k at a dummy there is a good chance you can do a good amount in an actual fight. If you can do 25k on a dummy you probably struggle in a real fight.

75k dummy parse. "Good" amount.

That kind of mentality is why a lot of players say Trial guilds need to chill. The expectations of what is considered good, or decent are through the roof and halfway to Masser. I can get my MagSorc an average parse of 30k and I've taken her through numerous vet Trials without issue.

Are you talking about the 6 mil dummy?

Either way, yeah, 75k on a trial dummy (I think we also allow 40k in the six mil) is about what people need to be able to get through trials like vMoL (where there are hard DPS checks) and vAS +1 or 2 (where if you don't get the minis down in time, you'll spend all of your time DPSing them down and make zero progress on the main boss) comfortably. Otherwise you'll tend to feel like you're just spinning your wheels.