The maintenance is complete and the PTS is now back online. The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test!
The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 15:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EDT (22:00 UTC)
Thank you for buffing proc sets and nerfing AOE
Zahirr
✭✭✭
Just a quick thing here: Thanks for Buffing proc sets, and nerfing AOE. These are gunna be good changes and heres why everyone moans about them:
Too many people are stuck in the past. They repeat, endlessly, the same tired old buzzwords: Procmeta! Tankmeta! TTK is too long! Nerf Nightblade! StamDK is the best solo pvp class!
Unfortunatly, all these mean nothing at all. They're just tired phrases that where true at one time. Sure, StamDK was strong in the past, hut now ZOS has nerfed the class every, single, patch for the last 11 patches. We got that inhale buff though! No one will use that skill, but at least someone up there is throwing us a bone.
Its the same thing with proc sets. The % chance lags the servers, and its just really not fun to only have an 8% chance for your build to do something. If you run an all fire build, then burning spellweave SHOULD be really strong. Thats the point of proc sets, is to make people want to play in unique ways, rather then every single stamina class running new moon, fury, titanborn, pariah, eternal vigor, or essence thief. Or, for instance, every single MagDK running Grothdar elfbane.
The people who complain about these changes want to be able to have 5 second battles, where they roflcrit someone into the ground on their stamplar/nightblade, or jabs away and perform the very complex task of smashing away at 1 healing skill like Magplar.
So, yeah. As a guy who will be nerfed by this update, please, please oh please oh please, buff proc sets and nerf AOE.
Too many people are stuck in the past. They repeat, endlessly, the same tired old buzzwords: Procmeta! Tankmeta! TTK is too long! Nerf Nightblade! StamDK is the best solo pvp class!
Unfortunatly, all these mean nothing at all. They're just tired phrases that where true at one time. Sure, StamDK was strong in the past, hut now ZOS has nerfed the class every, single, patch for the last 11 patches. We got that inhale buff though! No one will use that skill, but at least someone up there is throwing us a bone.
Its the same thing with proc sets. The % chance lags the servers, and its just really not fun to only have an 8% chance for your build to do something. If you run an all fire build, then burning spellweave SHOULD be really strong. Thats the point of proc sets, is to make people want to play in unique ways, rather then every single stamina class running new moon, fury, titanborn, pariah, eternal vigor, or essence thief. Or, for instance, every single MagDK running Grothdar elfbane.
The people who complain about these changes want to be able to have 5 second battles, where they roflcrit someone into the ground on their stamplar/nightblade, or jabs away and perform the very complex task of smashing away at 1 healing skill like Magplar.
So, yeah. As a guy who will be nerfed by this update, please, please oh please oh please, buff proc sets and nerf AOE.
5
-
Merciful17✭✭✭Just a quick thing here: Thanks for Buffing proc sets, and nerfing AOE. These are gunna be good changes and heres why everyone moans about them:
Too many people are stuck in the past. They repeat, endlessly, the same tired old buzzwords: Procmeta! Tankmeta! TTK is too long! Nerf Nightblade! StamDK is the best solo pvp class!
Unfortunatly, all these mean nothing at all. They're just tired phrases that where true at one time. Sure, StamDK was strong in the past, hut now ZOS has nerfed the class every, single, patch for the last 11 patches. We got that inhale buff though! No one will use that skill, but at least someone up there is throwing us a bone.
Its the same thing with proc sets. The % chance lags the servers, and its just really not fun to only have an 8% chance for your build to do something. If you run an all fire build, then burning spellweave SHOULD be really strong. Thats the point of proc sets, is to make people want to play in unique ways, rather then every single stamina class running new moon, fury, titanborn, pariah, eternal vigor, or essence thief. Or, for instance, every single MagDK running Grothdar elfbane.
The people who complain about these changes want to be able to have 5 second battles, where they roflcrit someone into the ground on their stamplar/nightblade, or jabs away and perform the very complex task of smashing away at 1 healing skill like Magplar.
So, yeah. As a guy who will be nerfed by this update, please, please oh please oh please, buff proc sets and nerf AOE.
[snip] I can't imagine how extremly boring fights will be when 2 people with 40k hp run 2 proc sets that will carry them. I prefer being dead in 5 secs by a NB rather than having a noob DK with 40k health kill me by running proc sets.
[edited for bait]Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on July 29, 2020 5:38PM20 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don’t worry the people like myself that are complaining about these not thought out changes will be able to kill you even quicker if the changes go through so be careful what you wish for
13 -
Zahirr✭✭✭@Merciful17 if you get killed by a dk with 40k health, your build has some massive problems my man. How is that even possible?
This is what Im talking about, though. Generic response: Proc set bad, because we say is bad! Without any kind of examples, comparisons, or anything.
0 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭@Merciful17 if you get killed by a dk with 40k health, your build has some massive problems my man. How is that even possible?
This is what Im talking about, though. Generic response: Proc set bad, because we say is bad! Without any kind of examples, comparisons, or anything.
Have you watched this video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Ql5gZomRw 10 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP Joined June 16 this year. There is nothing more valuable than feedback of experienced players
Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge20 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Don't worry, if the AoE changes happen and they don't nerf roll, then my templar will be invincible and able to 1-shot anyone with meteor. Tested it in CP and no CP on live and there are many variations to the build so it can't really be nerfed even if ZOS nerfs the sets sitting on my templar. There is nothing anyone will be able to do to the build either...
I love balance in this game. Just when you think you had a build that was broken, you find another! Haha! ZOS is the best!0 -
Husan✭✭✭✭✭Don't worry, if the AoE changes happen and they don't nerf roll, then my templar will be invincible and able to 1-shot anyone with meteor. Tested it in CP and no CP on live and there are many variations to the build so it can't really be nerfed even if ZOS nerfs the sets sitting on my templar. There is nothing anyone will be able to do to the build either...
I love balance in this game. Just when you think you had a build that was broken, you find another! Haha! ZOS is the best!
What set is that? Asking for my.. friend. A templar.
0 -
Zahirr✭✭✭@ketsparrowhawk Yeah, looks like two tanks fighting each other, on super low damage builds. I mean, it'd be one thing if the guy was absolutely dominating... but this just looks like the bog standard play for a build with 40k health. I.E., not being able to kill anybody. I've seen this exactly same build, or at least a very similar one with that monster set, do 35k burst on a guy in a few seconds. But the secret with that guy, is that he didn't build a crapton of health. So he could actually kill people, instead of running around in circles doing nothing like this video. I'm just not seeing this op 40k health build you're talking about. This is a mediocre tank build at best.
@Mayrael I mean... do you want a resume? I can send you a cover letter if you want.1 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭@Zahirr did you just fastforward to the duel and watch it on mute? You really should listen to what the dude is saying. He basically sums up all of the concerns over a proc META.
He's not actually trying to have a good duel. It is a demonstration. In the video, he explains that he is intentionally ONLY light attacking and healing during the duel, to demonstrate his point. He's doing quite a bit of damage doing ONLY light attacks.. and in the end he wins, doing nothing but light attacks for his offense. His mag pool never even dips, and his HP pool barely ever dips either, while his opponent is clearly struggling the entire time (his opponent is a long-time, well-known player in the community.. he knows how to play). He even explains that the build he threw together for the video isn't even optimized.. there is plenty more room for him to make it even better.. not to mention what would happen if he actually started using abilities along with the light attacks and proc sets.
Anyway, you said you wanted more than "proc bad" and that video sums it up nicely. Also, I can't imagine anyone who's spent 5 minutes in a high MMR battleground comes away thinking, "Proc META good!" lol
Honestly it's NBD to me. I have plenty of experience and I know I'll have a good time in PVP regardless. It's the new PVPers that suffer the most because of the extreme volatility of the PVP environment due to high damage, low effort procs.11 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merciful17 wrote: »Just a quick thing here: Thanks for Buffing proc sets, and nerfing AOE. These are gunna be good changes and heres why everyone moans about them:
Too many people are stuck in the past. They repeat, endlessly, the same tired old buzzwords: Procmeta! Tankmeta! TTK is too long! Nerf Nightblade! StamDK is the best solo pvp class!
Unfortunatly, all these mean nothing at all. They're just tired phrases that where true at one time. Sure, StamDK was strong in the past, hut now ZOS has nerfed the class every, single, patch for the last 11 patches. We got that inhale buff though! No one will use that skill, but at least someone up there is throwing us a bone.
Its the same thing with proc sets. The % chance lags the servers, and its just really not fun to only have an 8% chance for your build to do something. If you run an all fire build, then burning spellweave SHOULD be really strong. Thats the point of proc sets, is to make people want to play in unique ways, rather then every single stamina class running new moon, fury, titanborn, pariah, eternal vigor, or essence thief. Or, for instance, every single MagDK running Grothdar elfbane.
The people who complain about these changes want to be able to have 5 second battles, where they roflcrit someone into the ground on their stamplar/nightblade, or jabs away and perform the very complex task of smashing away at 1 healing skill like Magplar.
So, yeah. As a guy who will be nerfed by this update, please, please oh please oh please, buff proc sets and nerf AOE.
[snip] I can't imagine how extremly boring fights will be when 2 people with 40k hp run 2 proc sets that will carry them. I prefer being dead in 5 secs by a NB rather than having a noob DK with 40k health kill me by running proc sets.
[edited for bait]
I love how you act like bunker build are not the meta since a very long time now.
I agree with OP it's a good step and will made proc set more useful because more reliable.
People will always complain about anything anyway, I just hope ZoS won't listen them and keep trying new thing until they find a way.
MMORPG will never be balanced anyway, meta shift are always a thing everywhere and it's a good thing.[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]1 -
Dovahmiim✭✭✭Just a quick thing here: Thanks for Buffing proc sets, and nerfing AOE. These are gunna be good changes and heres why everyone moans about them:
Too many people are stuck in the past. They repeat, endlessly, the same tired old buzzwords: Procmeta! Tankmeta! TTK is too long! Nerf Nightblade! StamDK is the best solo pvp class!
Unfortunatly, all these mean nothing at all. They're just tired phrases that where true at one time. Sure, StamDK was strong in the past, hut now ZOS has nerfed the class every, single, patch for the last 11 patches. We got that inhale buff though! No one will use that skill, but at least someone up there is throwing us a bone.
Its the same thing with proc sets. The % chance lags the servers, and its just really not fun to only have an 8% chance for your build to do something. If you run an all fire build, then burning spellweave SHOULD be really strong. Thats the point of proc sets, is to make people want to play in unique ways, rather then every single stamina class running new moon, fury, titanborn, pariah, eternal vigor, or essence thief. Or, for instance, every single MagDK running Grothdar elfbane.
The people who complain about these changes want to be able to have 5 second battles, where they roflcrit someone into the ground on their stamplar/nightblade, or jabs away and perform the very complex task of smashing away at 1 healing skill like Magplar.
So, yeah. As a guy who will be nerfed by this update, please, please oh please oh please, buff proc sets and nerf AOE.
Um stamDK is arguably the current stongest duels class (literally due to single target procs and malacath). And is still one of the top choices for solo/smallscale OW. Your class is one of the few left that as you put it can "roflcrit" people down in 5s. Your class CC fossilise is the single biggest enabler of single target proc cheese in game, stop pretending a buff to procs will nerf you lol. The reason people are uneasy about the proposed changes is not because of procs in general, many in ESO are well designed, it is because of poorly designed damage procs that have no counterplay, and will carry bad players who tend to abuse numbers advantage.
Your whole post was a poor attempt at subtly portraying stamDK as an underdog class, and imply other classes are more simplistic. The fact that you listed arguably the weakest smallscale class (magplar) under this heading sort of proves this. I agree with you that a more diverse effective build pool is definitely a good thing, but giving players ez mode single target burst/DOT proc sets will only empower those with numbers advantage even further. If you want an example of why these are an issue, throw on master DW on your stam DK, slot fossilize and your class DOTs, I promise you'll kill people easily who used to give you trouble before.I'm better.2 -
Zahirr✭✭✭@Dovahmiim I think we're just not gunna have much agreement at all. I also think, it's pretty obvious you don't play a whole lot of Stamdk, as you think Magplar is bad small scale. They have a purge skill that almost single-handedly makes it impossible to run a full dot build. And an aeo spammable that gives a massive amount of buffs. I guess minimal effort/low skill classes are fine, but a set that requires actual conditions to activate is bad because... it takes more effort then just slotting new moon? I really don't get the line of reasoning here. Is there a counterplay to newmoon? Do you really think New Moon, or eternal vigor, or essence thief, are perfectly balanced, and that no one is using any other sets because they like New Moon best?
But, yeah. Stamdk is the underdog class too btw. If you want evidence, Go take your recommended, generic stamdk build that I also use, and fight a magplar who isn't blind. See how well that duel goes.
Edited by Zahirr on July 30, 2020 7:47AM1 -
Mortiis13✭✭✭✭Don't worry, if the AoE changes happen and they don't nerf roll, then my templar will be invincible and able to 1-shot anyone with meteor. Tested it in CP and no CP on live and there are many variations to the build so it can't really be nerfed even if ZOS nerfs the sets sitting on my templar. There is nothing anyone will be able to do to the build either...
I love balance in this game. Just when you think you had a build that was broken, you find another! Haha! ZOS is the best!
What set is that? Asking for my.. friend. A templar.
Add 3 generic magicka proc sets (1 monster 1 frontbar, 1 backbar, malacath) , healstaff/bow (HA only for resource gain), heavy armor, slot ur class health based heal, all into health and u will be fine. Borest playstyle ever but atleast u need only the bpm of an potatoe and kill even good players with zero knowledge of what u exactly do.
Tested by my 6 year old son. It's idiot proof
1 -
Merciful17✭✭✭Merciful17 wrote: »Just a quick thing here: Thanks for Buffing proc sets, and nerfing AOE. These are gunna be good changes and heres why everyone moans about them:
Too many people are stuck in the past. They repeat, endlessly, the same tired old buzzwords: Procmeta! Tankmeta! TTK is too long! Nerf Nightblade! StamDK is the best solo pvp class!
Unfortunatly, all these mean nothing at all. They're just tired phrases that where true at one time. Sure, StamDK was strong in the past, hut now ZOS has nerfed the class every, single, patch for the last 11 patches. We got that inhale buff though! No one will use that skill, but at least someone up there is throwing us a bone.
Its the same thing with proc sets. The % chance lags the servers, and its just really not fun to only have an 8% chance for your build to do something. If you run an all fire build, then burning spellweave SHOULD be really strong. Thats the point of proc sets, is to make people want to play in unique ways, rather then every single stamina class running new moon, fury, titanborn, pariah, eternal vigor, or essence thief. Or, for instance, every single MagDK running Grothdar elfbane.
The people who complain about these changes want to be able to have 5 second battles, where they roflcrit someone into the ground on their stamplar/nightblade, or jabs away and perform the very complex task of smashing away at 1 healing skill like Magplar.
So, yeah. As a guy who will be nerfed by this update, please, please oh please oh please, buff proc sets and nerf AOE.
[snip] I can't imagine how extremly boring fights will be when 2 people with 40k hp run 2 proc sets that will carry them. I prefer being dead in 5 secs by a NB rather than having a noob DK with 40k health kill me by running proc sets.
[edited for bait]
I love how you act like bunker build are not the meta since a very long time now.
I agree with OP it's a good step and will made proc set more useful because more reliable.
People will always complain about anything anyway, I just hope ZoS won't listen them and keep trying new thing until they find a way.
MMORPG will never be balanced anyway, meta shift are always a thing everywhere and it's a good thing.
People will complain when there's a reason to. Proc meta will remove any skill required from PvP. Like the majority of people say, proc sets should have their place in the game but they shouldn't be meta. Besides, proc sets are already being used. Can't even remember how many times I've been hit by venomous smite.0 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Merciful17 wrote: »Merciful17 wrote: »Just a quick thing here: Thanks for Buffing proc sets, and nerfing AOE. These are gunna be good changes and heres why everyone moans about them:
Too many people are stuck in the past. They repeat, endlessly, the same tired old buzzwords: Procmeta! Tankmeta! TTK is too long! Nerf Nightblade! StamDK is the best solo pvp class!
Unfortunatly, all these mean nothing at all. They're just tired phrases that where true at one time. Sure, StamDK was strong in the past, hut now ZOS has nerfed the class every, single, patch for the last 11 patches. We got that inhale buff though! No one will use that skill, but at least someone up there is throwing us a bone.
Its the same thing with proc sets. The % chance lags the servers, and its just really not fun to only have an 8% chance for your build to do something. If you run an all fire build, then burning spellweave SHOULD be really strong. Thats the point of proc sets, is to make people want to play in unique ways, rather then every single stamina class running new moon, fury, titanborn, pariah, eternal vigor, or essence thief. Or, for instance, every single MagDK running Grothdar elfbane.
The people who complain about these changes want to be able to have 5 second battles, where they roflcrit someone into the ground on their stamplar/nightblade, or jabs away and perform the very complex task of smashing away at 1 healing skill like Magplar.
So, yeah. As a guy who will be nerfed by this update, please, please oh please oh please, buff proc sets and nerf AOE.
[snip] I can't imagine how extremly boring fights will be when 2 people with 40k hp run 2 proc sets that will carry them. I prefer being dead in 5 secs by a NB rather than having a noob DK with 40k health kill me by running proc sets.
[edited for bait]
I love how you act like bunker build are not the meta since a very long time now.
I agree with OP it's a good step and will made proc set more useful because more reliable.
People will always complain about anything anyway, I just hope ZoS won't listen them and keep trying new thing until they find a way.
MMORPG will never be balanced anyway, meta shift are always a thing everywhere and it's a good thing.
People will complain when there's a reason to. Proc meta will remove any skill required from PvP. Like the majority of people say, proc sets should have their place in the game but they shouldn't be meta. Besides, proc sets are already being used. Can't even remember how many times I've been hit by venomous smite.
"Majority of people" You mean the 1% who actually PvP but not for geode/horn/skyshard farm ? You think the 30 forum guys complaining all day are the majority ? That cute.
I'm sur most player will be happy to finally be able to use proc set without crippling their build and relying on a weird % proc.
They seem to be on the way to remove all % and make them more reliable, it a very good think, diversity is good.
If you'r good you'll adapt and find a solution, their is enough set combo in this game for it.
[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]0 -
Dovahmiim✭✭✭@Dovahmiim I think we're just not gunna have much agreement at all. I also think, it's pretty obvious you don't play a whole lot of Stamdk, as you think Magplar is bad small scale. They have a purge skill that almost single-handedly makes it impossible to run a full dot build. And an aeo spammable that gives a massive amount of buffs. I guess minimal effort/low skill classes are fine, but a set that requires actual conditions to activate is bad because... it takes more effort then just slotting new moon? I really don't get the line of reasoning here. Is there a counterplay to newmoon? Do you really think New Moon, or eternal vigor, or essence thief, are perfectly balanced, and that no one is using any other sets because they like New Moon best?
But, yeah. Stamdk is the underdog class too btw. If you want evidence, Go take your recommended, generic stamdk build that I also use, and fight a magplar who isn't blind. See how well that duel goes.
Lmao I've played StamDK plenty, magplar can be as strong as it 1v1 if neither side uses procs or malacath, but DK gets a serious edge when malacath and any sort of single target DOT pressure sets are used (ie. master DW for stam). Difference is, while a damage magplar spec will get clapped OW as its defense scales horribly when outnumbered, stamDK has far better survival due to more dodge rolls, better defense ultis, access to major evasion, front loaded burst, the list goes on. I say this from playing both btw, while I'm far better at magplar, stamDK feels like easymode both for duels and for OW. For example, you've fought both my magplar and magden (Mer-C) in 1v1s, I feel about 2x stronger on a malacath DOT stamDK than I do on either of those. Conversely in your case, it's fairly obvious you haven't played a damage oriented magplar in outnumbered PvP, because I can tell you from playing both that and sDK, sDK I can survive better with JUST vigor than I can on magplar utilising all defenses available.
On New Moon, you're actually sorta right for live, although I've never tried it on stam, on mag. Mag generally has a far harder time sustaining in open world (unless youre a sorc), so that cost increase is no bueno, things like necropotence/crafty are just better because they boost shield strength. Next patch, I think NMA will be pretty balanced compared to other options. If in your original post you were referring to procs with actual conditions that you have to build around, I'd agree with you that they're a good thing. But if you meant things like Icy Conj / Caluurions / Hunter's Venom, then yeah we'll never agree lmao.I'm better.1 -
StamPlar_1976✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »@Zahirr did you just fastforward to the duel and watch it on mute? You really should listen to what the dude is saying. He basically sums up all of the concerns over a proc META.
He's not actually trying to have a good duel. It is a demonstration. In the video, he explains that he is intentionally ONLY light attacking and healing during the duel, to demonstrate his point. He's doing quite a bit of damage doing ONLY light attacks.. and in the end he wins, doing nothing but light attacks for his offense. His mag pool never even dips, and his HP pool barely ever dips either, while his opponent is clearly struggling the entire time (his opponent is a long-time, well-known player in the community.. he knows how to play). He even explains that the build he threw together for the video isn't even optimized.. there is plenty more room for him to make it even better.. not to mention what would happen if he actually started using abilities along with the light attacks and proc sets.
Anyway, you said you wanted more than "proc bad" and that video sums it up nicely. Also, I can't imagine anyone who's spent 5 minutes in a high MMR battleground comes away thinking, "Proc META good!" lol
Honestly it's NBD to me. I have plenty of experience and I know I'll have a good time in PVP regardless. It's the new PVPers that suffer the most because of the extreme volatility of the PVP environment due to high damage, low effort procs.
And I guess you haven't seen the second video made where he fights someone who actually fights back and destroys him repeatedly? Way to cherry pick.0 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭StamPlar_1976 wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »@Zahirr did you just fastforward to the duel and watch it on mute? You really should listen to what the dude is saying. He basically sums up all of the concerns over a proc META.
He's not actually trying to have a good duel. It is a demonstration. In the video, he explains that he is intentionally ONLY light attacking and healing during the duel, to demonstrate his point. He's doing quite a bit of damage doing ONLY light attacks.. and in the end he wins, doing nothing but light attacks for his offense. His mag pool never even dips, and his HP pool barely ever dips either, while his opponent is clearly struggling the entire time (his opponent is a long-time, well-known player in the community.. he knows how to play). He even explains that the build he threw together for the video isn't even optimized.. there is plenty more room for him to make it even better.. not to mention what would happen if he actually started using abilities along with the light attacks and proc sets.
Anyway, you said you wanted more than "proc bad" and that video sums it up nicely. Also, I can't imagine anyone who's spent 5 minutes in a high MMR battleground comes away thinking, "Proc META good!" lol
Honestly it's NBD to me. I have plenty of experience and I know I'll have a good time in PVP regardless. It's the new PVPers that suffer the most because of the extreme volatility of the PVP environment due to high damage, low effort procs.
And I guess you haven't seen the second video made where he fights someone who actually fights back and destroys him repeatedly? Way to cherry pick.
Indeed I guess I have not. Not seeing it on his YT channel. The point of the video isn't to prove that he can win any duel. He's just demonstrating that a 40k hp build can do a decent amount of damage with barely any effort.. just doing light attacks and relying on procs to do all the damage. It isn't a real duel, obviously. Just a demonstration.
It's not cherry picking. OP asked for examples of why people are worried about a proc META.. that's a video that pretty much covers all of the concerns.
Like I said it's of little concern to me personally. I already abuse the heck out of procs and farming little potatoes is easier than ever. More procs will only benefit me further and hurt newbies more.3 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It pointless to complain about procs until we see how much damage AOE changes are going to cause. None of the arguments, pro or con, being made in this thread are applicable anymore if the AOE changes completely shift the game from where it is today.
My theory is ZOS knew what they had planned regarding AOE and that is why they buffed and released these proc sets.0 -
Kittytravel✭✭✭✭✭StamPlar_1976 wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »@Zahirr did you just fastforward to the duel and watch it on mute? You really should listen to what the dude is saying. He basically sums up all of the concerns over a proc META.
He's not actually trying to have a good duel. It is a demonstration. In the video, he explains that he is intentionally ONLY light attacking and healing during the duel, to demonstrate his point. He's doing quite a bit of damage doing ONLY light attacks.. and in the end he wins, doing nothing but light attacks for his offense. His mag pool never even dips, and his HP pool barely ever dips either, while his opponent is clearly struggling the entire time (his opponent is a long-time, well-known player in the community.. he knows how to play). He even explains that the build he threw together for the video isn't even optimized.. there is plenty more room for him to make it even better.. not to mention what would happen if he actually started using abilities along with the light attacks and proc sets.
Anyway, you said you wanted more than "proc bad" and that video sums it up nicely. Also, I can't imagine anyone who's spent 5 minutes in a high MMR battleground comes away thinking, "Proc META good!" lol
Honestly it's NBD to me. I have plenty of experience and I know I'll have a good time in PVP regardless. It's the new PVPers that suffer the most because of the extreme volatility of the PVP environment due to high damage, low effort procs.
And I guess you haven't seen the second video made where he fights someone who actually fights back and destroys him repeatedly? Way to cherry pick.
To be fair using his video after they reverted Caluurion to crit damage required would be cherry picking as well? Wouldn't a more recent video reflecting the changes made to the recent PTS be more genuine?
I'm for the changes to proc sets I just think Battle Spirit should be adjusted to reduce damage on proc sets by 40% personally. Let PvE have its cake and PvP have its cake.0 -
ketsparrowhawk✭✭✭✭✭Kittytravel wrote: »StamPlar_1976 wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »@Zahirr did you just fastforward to the duel and watch it on mute? You really should listen to what the dude is saying. He basically sums up all of the concerns over a proc META.
He's not actually trying to have a good duel. It is a demonstration. In the video, he explains that he is intentionally ONLY light attacking and healing during the duel, to demonstrate his point. He's doing quite a bit of damage doing ONLY light attacks.. and in the end he wins, doing nothing but light attacks for his offense. His mag pool never even dips, and his HP pool barely ever dips either, while his opponent is clearly struggling the entire time (his opponent is a long-time, well-known player in the community.. he knows how to play). He even explains that the build he threw together for the video isn't even optimized.. there is plenty more room for him to make it even better.. not to mention what would happen if he actually started using abilities along with the light attacks and proc sets.
Anyway, you said you wanted more than "proc bad" and that video sums it up nicely. Also, I can't imagine anyone who's spent 5 minutes in a high MMR battleground comes away thinking, "Proc META good!" lol
Honestly it's NBD to me. I have plenty of experience and I know I'll have a good time in PVP regardless. It's the new PVPers that suffer the most because of the extreme volatility of the PVP environment due to high damage, low effort procs.
And I guess you haven't seen the second video made where he fights someone who actually fights back and destroys him repeatedly? Way to cherry pick.
To be fair using his video after they reverted Caluurion to crit damage required would be cherry picking as well? Wouldn't a more recent video reflecting the changes made to the recent PTS be more genuine?
I'm for the changes to proc sets I just think Battle Spirit should be adjusted to reduce damage on proc sets by 40% personally. Let PvE have its cake and PvP have its cake.
Kind of an hilarious exchange.
OP: What are the reasons people are concerned about a proc META?
<provide link to video discussing said concerns>
Forum: Stop cherry picking!0 -
Merciful17✭✭✭Merciful17 wrote: »Merciful17 wrote: »Just a quick thing here: Thanks for Buffing proc sets, and nerfing AOE. These are gunna be good changes and heres why everyone moans about them:
Too many people are stuck in the past. They repeat, endlessly, the same tired old buzzwords: Procmeta! Tankmeta! TTK is too long! Nerf Nightblade! StamDK is the best solo pvp class!
Unfortunatly, all these mean nothing at all. They're just tired phrases that where true at one time. Sure, StamDK was strong in the past, hut now ZOS has nerfed the class every, single, patch for the last 11 patches. We got that inhale buff though! No one will use that skill, but at least someone up there is throwing us a bone.
Its the same thing with proc sets. The % chance lags the servers, and its just really not fun to only have an 8% chance for your build to do something. If you run an all fire build, then burning spellweave SHOULD be really strong. Thats the point of proc sets, is to make people want to play in unique ways, rather then every single stamina class running new moon, fury, titanborn, pariah, eternal vigor, or essence thief. Or, for instance, every single MagDK running Grothdar elfbane.
The people who complain about these changes want to be able to have 5 second battles, where they roflcrit someone into the ground on their stamplar/nightblade, or jabs away and perform the very complex task of smashing away at 1 healing skill like Magplar.
So, yeah. As a guy who will be nerfed by this update, please, please oh please oh please, buff proc sets and nerf AOE.
[snip] I can't imagine how extremly boring fights will be when 2 people with 40k hp run 2 proc sets that will carry them. I prefer being dead in 5 secs by a NB rather than having a noob DK with 40k health kill me by running proc sets.
[edited for bait]
I love how you act like bunker build are not the meta since a very long time now.
I agree with OP it's a good step and will made proc set more useful because more reliable.
People will always complain about anything anyway, I just hope ZoS won't listen them and keep trying new thing until they find a way.
MMORPG will never be balanced anyway, meta shift are always a thing everywhere and it's a good thing.
People will complain when there's a reason to. Proc meta will remove any skill required from PvP. Like the majority of people say, proc sets should have their place in the game but they shouldn't be meta. Besides, proc sets are already being used. Can't even remember how many times I've been hit by venomous smite.
"Majority of people" You mean the 1% who actually PvP but not for geode/horn/skyshard farm ? You think the 30 forum guys complaining all day are the majority ? That cute.
I'm sur most player will be happy to finally be able to use proc set without crippling their build and relying on a weird % proc.
They seem to be on the way to remove all % and make them more reliable, it a very good think, diversity is good.
If you'r good you'll adapt and find a solution, their is enough set combo in this game for it.
You can't possibly [snip] think that there's only 1% of people who play PvP lol. I also truly hope you know that not everyone from the ESO community are members of this forum. People who play PvP play it casually or competitively. It's rather clear that you seem to not have any understanding of balance. Have you ever tried BG? I wouldn't be surprised if you've never touched PvP but anyways. You sometimes get this game mode called "Capture the relic" and sometimes the enemy team ends up with a very tanky tank. This tanky tank rushes in when 4 players are guarding the relic, manages to grab it because of the 7 sec stun immunity, and then manages to run all the way back to their relic with a bunch of snares, debuffs, and 4+ people chasing after them. If you haven't already guessed, this totally sucks for the team who lost their relic. Now imagine getting these type of super tanky tanks, not only having 40k health but also being able to deal really decent damage because of proc sets. I don't think you can even imagine how EXTREMLY boring every single PvP activity will be when a 1v1 fight takes around 5-10 minutes.
Oh and no way I'm turning all my characters into tanks and run op proc sets. If the changes go live they will get nerfed after a few weeks, and proc sets will probably be really weak after because of the amount of complaints ZOS will get.
[edited for insulting comment]Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on July 30, 2020 5:32PM0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »StamPlar_1976 wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »@Zahirr did you just fastforward to the duel and watch it on mute? You really should listen to what the dude is saying. He basically sums up all of the concerns over a proc META.
He's not actually trying to have a good duel. It is a demonstration. In the video, he explains that he is intentionally ONLY light attacking and healing during the duel, to demonstrate his point. He's doing quite a bit of damage doing ONLY light attacks.. and in the end he wins, doing nothing but light attacks for his offense. His mag pool never even dips, and his HP pool barely ever dips either, while his opponent is clearly struggling the entire time (his opponent is a long-time, well-known player in the community.. he knows how to play). He even explains that the build he threw together for the video isn't even optimized.. there is plenty more room for him to make it even better.. not to mention what would happen if he actually started using abilities along with the light attacks and proc sets.
Anyway, you said you wanted more than "proc bad" and that video sums it up nicely. Also, I can't imagine anyone who's spent 5 minutes in a high MMR battleground comes away thinking, "Proc META good!" lol
Honestly it's NBD to me. I have plenty of experience and I know I'll have a good time in PVP regardless. It's the new PVPers that suffer the most because of the extreme volatility of the PVP environment due to high damage, low effort procs.
And I guess you haven't seen the second video made where he fights someone who actually fights back and destroys him repeatedly? Way to cherry pick.
Indeed I guess I have not. Not seeing it on his YT channel. The point of the video isn't to prove that he can win any duel. He's just demonstrating that a 40k hp build can do a decent amount of damage with barely any effort.. just doing light attacks and relying on procs to do all the damage. It isn't a real duel, obviously. Just a demonstration.
It's not cherry picking. OP asked for examples of why people are worried about a proc META.. that's a video that pretty much covers all of the concerns.
Like I said it's of little concern to me personally. I already abuse the heck out of procs and farming little potatoes is easier than ever. More procs will only benefit me further and hurt newbies more.
You can already do great damage with a 40k hp build, even in no cp.
Let me introduce you to heavy attack sets.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »StamPlar_1976 wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »@Zahirr did you just fastforward to the duel and watch it on mute? You really should listen to what the dude is saying. He basically sums up all of the concerns over a proc META.
He's not actually trying to have a good duel. It is a demonstration. In the video, he explains that he is intentionally ONLY light attacking and healing during the duel, to demonstrate his point. He's doing quite a bit of damage doing ONLY light attacks.. and in the end he wins, doing nothing but light attacks for his offense. His mag pool never even dips, and his HP pool barely ever dips either, while his opponent is clearly struggling the entire time (his opponent is a long-time, well-known player in the community.. he knows how to play). He even explains that the build he threw together for the video isn't even optimized.. there is plenty more room for him to make it even better.. not to mention what would happen if he actually started using abilities along with the light attacks and proc sets.
Anyway, you said you wanted more than "proc bad" and that video sums it up nicely. Also, I can't imagine anyone who's spent 5 minutes in a high MMR battleground comes away thinking, "Proc META good!" lol
Honestly it's NBD to me. I have plenty of experience and I know I'll have a good time in PVP regardless. It's the new PVPers that suffer the most because of the extreme volatility of the PVP environment due to high damage, low effort procs.
And I guess you haven't seen the second video made where he fights someone who actually fights back and destroys him repeatedly? Way to cherry pick.
Indeed I guess I have not. Not seeing it on his YT channel. The point of the video isn't to prove that he can win any duel. He's just demonstrating that a 40k hp build can do a decent amount of damage with barely any effort.. just doing light attacks and relying on procs to do all the damage. It isn't a real duel, obviously. Just a demonstration.
It's not cherry picking. OP asked for examples of why people are worried about a proc META.. that's a video that pretty much covers all of the concerns.
Like I said it's of little concern to me personally. I already abuse the heck out of procs and farming little potatoes is easier than ever. More procs will only benefit me further and hurt newbies more.
You can already do great damage with a 40k hp build, even in no cp.
Let me introduce you to heavy attack sets.
Forgot to add the rest, like Thews, literally any procset of your choice.
I spent the entire MYM even this year running around on my 45k hp(no cp) wood elf stamsorc, literally busting 10-15 man grps.0 -
Kittytravel✭✭✭✭✭ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Kittytravel wrote: »StamPlar_1976 wrote: »ketsparrowhawk wrote: »@Zahirr did you just fastforward to the duel and watch it on mute? You really should listen to what the dude is saying. He basically sums up all of the concerns over a proc META.
He's not actually trying to have a good duel. It is a demonstration. In the video, he explains that he is intentionally ONLY light attacking and healing during the duel, to demonstrate his point. He's doing quite a bit of damage doing ONLY light attacks.. and in the end he wins, doing nothing but light attacks for his offense. His mag pool never even dips, and his HP pool barely ever dips either, while his opponent is clearly struggling the entire time (his opponent is a long-time, well-known player in the community.. he knows how to play). He even explains that the build he threw together for the video isn't even optimized.. there is plenty more room for him to make it even better.. not to mention what would happen if he actually started using abilities along with the light attacks and proc sets.
Anyway, you said you wanted more than "proc bad" and that video sums it up nicely. Also, I can't imagine anyone who's spent 5 minutes in a high MMR battleground comes away thinking, "Proc META good!" lol
Honestly it's NBD to me. I have plenty of experience and I know I'll have a good time in PVP regardless. It's the new PVPers that suffer the most because of the extreme volatility of the PVP environment due to high damage, low effort procs.
And I guess you haven't seen the second video made where he fights someone who actually fights back and destroys him repeatedly? Way to cherry pick.
To be fair using his video after they reverted Caluurion to crit damage required would be cherry picking as well? Wouldn't a more recent video reflecting the changes made to the recent PTS be more genuine?
I'm for the changes to proc sets I just think Battle Spirit should be adjusted to reduce damage on proc sets by 40% personally. Let PvE have its cake and PvP have its cake.
Kind of an hilarious exchange.
OP: What are the reasons people are concerned about a proc META?
<provide link to video discussing said concerns>
Forum: Stop cherry picking!
Kind of yeah, as I said I still agree with the guy I just think he should do an updated video now that they have reverted that set so he can show the potential is still there the same as was before.; I think (or at least hope) that everyone deep down understands that proc sets are a non-skill existence that shouldn't occur in a competitive arena like PvP. The video (despite using Caluurions) covers those concerns amicably. Sure Caluurions is back to requiring a crit but the rest still can provide a heavy DPS output on a full tank build. Everyone likes to paint Malacaths as the issue but the issue is just the sets themselves; after all Malacaths should be able to be used to improve a stat dense build by sacrificing crit to stabilize your overall burst output in a match. But Malacaths for proc sets is only as strong as the proc sets are; and a Battle Spirit nerf to proc sets would ensure skill beats out proc sets on a much more regular basis while covering the concerns of tank-up PvP proc builds. If the proc sets deal a combined total of 30k before Malacths then a 40% nerf would bring that down to 18k With Malacths added it goes up to 22k damage with another 50% cut hitting in from the current Battle Spirit bringing it down to 11k being dealt prior to mitigations. The two sets I'm logically putting together in this scenario are Merciless Charge and Unleashed Terror.
Proc sets have their place in PvE where they can exist to help close a skill gap for people with lower APM or ability to understand/play the game. But even with the current proc set changes they will come nowhere near to the 90k DPS people can pull on a class they have played extensively. So if proc sets can't pull someone to 90k DPS, they should logically also not pull someone to high burst damage in PvP.0 -
Girl_Number8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is a step backwards for PvP, imo.
Maybe the devs will actually listen to the overwhelming feedback on the PTS.
Remember when we tested the DOT changes and they still went live. It sucked the skill right out of PvP, making it boring for the hardcore PvP players.
The DOT meta aftermath was probably more of a mess to clean up for the team, just a thought.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
I can see the direction the team has been going before this PTS. It was coming along nicely.
Possibly separate some sets for PvE and PvP to cater to both groups.Edited by Girl_Number8 on July 30, 2020 6:38PM2 -
Xargas13✭✭✭Funny, I went back to my previous game, because I can't stand the situation in PvP now, and in that game they added proc damage, every BG I enter and someone mentions proc, everyone hates them, forums are filled with how bad PvP is and how proc damage is crap, they will be removing it in the next patch, because no one digs that. And here people are happy that they can kill by chance with almost no interaction, and now they are even buffing them. Before the patch it was great PvP and that's why I played, now it's CS:GO with abilities....
Don't know about others but I prefer to play my game instead of it doing things for me. If I wanted that I would play a game like those stupid mobile games where you don't have to even play, the game goes without you. And that's my definition of a proc set. Maybe in PvE it is good, but PvP? Nah, I'll pass, thanks.1