The skill cost increase at vampire stage 1 needs to go

StarOfElyon · July 2020

The entry level into vampires feels very unwelcoming. While I appreciate the fact that people can't just be vampire for the passive now, at stage 1 there are very little passives to make use of - and I'm 100% fine with that - but we're penalized for being vampire at all.
On top of taking more damage from fire and Fighter's Guild abilities, we lose health Regen, and have increased cost to using non-vampire skills. It's punishing.

As much as I want to be a vampire for RP reasons, I'm not willing to build as a full vampire and so it feels like stage 1 is nothing but a debuff meant to punish you for being a vampire at all.

This is what I'm proposing: remove the debuffs from stage 1 unless you're going to offer passive to make it worth it. Remove the skill cost increase for non-vampire skills. Remove the health regeneration debuff. Keep the increased damage from fire and Fighter's Guild abilities.

This way, there's still a penalty for being a vampire at stage 1 but it doesn't feel like such an oppressive experience.

Vevvev · July 2020

Agreed, although I think the reason they did this is because the old vampire got a passive that stunned targets after feeding off them, but the current vampire gets to enter sneak fast and ignores the sneak speed penalty even at stage 1. That's the equivalent of wearing 5 pieces of Night's Silence which is a stamina set. https://eso-sets.com/set/nights-silence

So there is a benefit but I do agree the non-vampire cost increase debuff and the vampire cost decrease buff don't really belong at stage 1. The health regeneration and flame damage is okay I guess since you're still gaining power but those buffs/debuffs that change ability costs are there just to push you into using vampire abilities despite the fact at stage 1 you're not really committing all that much into it.

Taleof2Cities · July 2020

StarOfElyon wrote: »

As much as I want to be a vampire for RP reasons, I'm not willing to build as a full vampire and so it feels like stage 1 is nothing but a debuff meant to punish you for being a vampire at all.

I think you first need to decide what you’re actually using your vampire for, @StarOfElyon.

If it is just for RP, why does combat or the stage even matter?

StarOfElyon · July 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

As much as I want to be a vampire for RP reasons, I'm not willing to build as a full vampire and so it feels like stage 1 is nothing but a debuff meant to punish you for being a vampire at all.

I think you first need to decide what you’re actually using your vampire for, @StarOfElyon.

If it is just for RP, why does combat or the stage even matter?

It matters because it's hard to play the game content. I'm doing less damage because I have to make up for the skill cost. I don't mind taking extra damage (I'll just be careful). But it's harder to pull my weight on a team. Is there a good reason for there to be such a debuff? Do you have one?

Lord-Otto · July 2020

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

As much as I want to be a vampire for RP reasons, I'm not willing to build as a full vampire and so it feels like stage 1 is nothing but a debuff meant to punish you for being a vampire at all.

I think you first need to decide what you’re actually using your vampire for, @StarOfElyon.

If it is just for RP, why does combat or the stage even matter?

It matters because it's hard to play the game content. I'm doing less damage because I have to make up for the skill cost. I don't mind taking extra damage (I'll just be careful). But it's harder to pull my weight on a team. Is there a good reason for there to be such a debuff? Do you have one?

It ticks all the boxes.
(OwO)

Ryuvain · July 2020

Is access to all vamp abilities and a good vamp ult not a perk? You have to consider that as well. You get all those choices for only 3%. Some classes really love BFB, mist, stun, or drain.

StarOfElyon · July 2020

Ryuvain wrote: »

Is access to all vamp abilities and a good vamp ult not a perk? You have to consider that as well. You get all those choices for only 3%. Some classes really love BFB, mist, stun, or drain.

It's not "for only 3%".

You also take 5% more flame damage, lose 10% health regeneration, and you take 20% more damage from fighter's guild abilities.

The 3% skill cost for use non-vampire skills is overkill.

Nestor · July 2020

StarOfElyon wrote: »

and you take 20% more damage from fighter's guild abilities.

The 3% skill cost for use non-vampire skills is overkill.

Overland Content, nothing uses FG Skills, only in PvP. And, if you are in PvP, then the other players have to counter your Vamp Skills.

3% Skill Cost is nothing, hardly matters on a rotation, even in a Raid Boss Fight. And, if your worried about optimizing a character for Trials, well, create an Optimized character for doing Trial Content. Then you can have an RP character for everything else.

Ryuvain · July 2020

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

Is access to all vamp abilities and a good vamp ult not a perk? You have to consider that as well. You get all those choices for only 3%. Some classes really love BFB, mist, stun, or drain.

It's not "for only 3%".

You also take 5% more flame damage, lose 10% health regeneration, and you take 20% more damage from fighter's guild abilities.

The 3% skill cost for use non-vampire skills is overkill.

3% isnt anything really. I can see 10% being annoying but not 3%. A 1000 cost skill is now 1030?

5% more flame damage is the main downside to me, but not everyone uses fire. So its situational.

10% health regen? Thats pretty useless as a downside. Health regen isn't keeping you alive by itself and it doesnt touch self healing?

20% damage from fighters guild. That's only pvp and fighters guild moves aren't as good as class ones. Dawnbreaker is the only thing i'd even consider worrying about.

Vevvev · July 2020

NPCs in the first stage of Dragonstar Arena use Fighter's guild abilities. Granted it's only one place but it's not exlusive to PVP, just way more prevalent.

Nestor · July 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

NPCs in the first stage of Dragonstar Arena use Fighter's guild abilities. Granted it's only one place but it's not exlusive to PVP, just way more prevalent.

Interesting, thanks for point that out.

I really need to do Dragon Star one of these days.

StarOfElyon · July 2020

It's 8% when I wear New Moon Acolyte on this character (a hybrid).

StarOfElyon · July 2020

Point is, it makes stage 1 nothing but debuffs to overcome and its very unpleasant, rather than being fun.

Lord-Otto · July 2020

Nestor wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

NPCs in the first stage of Dragonstar Arena use Fighter's guild abilities. Granted it's only one place but it's not exlusive to PVP, just way more prevalent.

Interesting, thanks for point that out.

I really need to do Dragon Star one of these days.

Aurorans in Depths of Malatar also frequently use Dawnbreaker. You really feel it as a vampire. (x.x)

StarOfElyon · July 2020

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

NPCs in the first stage of Dragonstar Arena use Fighter's guild abilities. Granted it's only one place but it's not exlusive to PVP, just way more prevalent.

Interesting, thanks for point that out.

I really need to do Dragon Star one of these days.

Aurorans in Depths of Malatar also frequently use Dawnbreaker. You really feel it as a vampire. (x.x)

I really feel it in BGs when MagDKs are using Grothdar and chasing me down because they know I'm a vampire.

Lord-Otto · July 2020

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

NPCs in the first stage of Dragonstar Arena use Fighter's guild abilities. Granted it's only one place but it's not exlusive to PVP, just way more prevalent.

Interesting, thanks for point that out.

I really need to do Dragon Star one of these days.

Aurorans in Depths of Malatar also frequently use Dawnbreaker. You really feel it as a vampire. (x.x)

I really feel it in BGs when MagDKs are using Grothdar and chasing me down because they know I'm a vampire.

Lol, fire. A couple months ago I would have nodded so heavily I would have broken my neck. But since Greymoor I'm always stage 1 and I ABSOLUTELY feel the reduced fire damage. Against mag DKs, of course. But also in PvE. Maybe not in a professional trial. But Maelstrom or when things go awry in DSA or dungeons? It makes things a lot easier.

Vevvev · July 2020

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lol, fire. A couple months ago I would have nodded so heavily I would have broken my neck. But since Greymoor I'm always stage 1 and I ABSOLUTELY feel the reduced fire damage. Against mag DKs, of course. But also in PvE. Maybe not in a professional trial. But Maelstrom or when things go awry in DSA or dungeons? It makes things a lot easier.

I know right? That reduction from 25% at stage 4 to 20% was really nice. Used to be stage 2 had 15% increased damage to flame and stage 3 was at 20%, but now we only have to deal with 5%, 8%, 13%, and 20%

Lord-Otto · July 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Lol, fire. A couple months ago I would have nodded so heavily I would have broken my neck. But since Greymoor I'm always stage 1 and I ABSOLUTELY feel the reduced fire damage. Against mag DKs, of course. But also in PvE. Maybe not in a professional trial. But Maelstrom or when things go awry in DSA or dungeons? It makes things a lot easier.

I know right? That reduction from 25% at stage 4 to 20% was really nice. Used to be stage 2 had 15% increased damage to flame and stage 3 was at 20%, but now we only have to deal with 5%, 8%, 13%, and 20%

Yes. Fire damage is very, very prevalent in this game. Even an ice dungeon has mainly fire damage in it. And even though people like to say the fire damage doesn't matter - it does.