HOW CAN YOU NOT SEE THIS!?

Fawn4287 · July 2020

The major problem is PvP is group healing and purge, it has been for so incredibly long and ZOS refuses to approach this issue directly. Ballgroups only exist purely because of healing, how incredibly powerful, mindless and easy it is for people to spam heals and purge. With rapid regen working as it is, it is like everyone is a healer. Most group healers cruise around with a sword and board, defensive5 piece set set and 30+35k health and still pump out massive healing. Even major defile does nothing to these groups due to the fact that they essentially can’t be debuffed thanks to purge.

The number of issues instantly solved with a nerf to group healing, making purge, healing proc sets and several other heals cast on self only in PvP. The healing taken nerf didn’t work, the AOE nerfs won’t work but directly nerfing ball groups vital group healing and purge stacking will decimate them, or at the very least force them to change up strategies. A terrible proc set meta will make this even worse, these groups will instantly purge every proc damage DOT whilst pumping out a ridiculous amount of free damage, simply by light attacking and allow them to just run even more health!

make the good ballgroups work significantly harder to survive and cause the bad ballgroups to fail because at the moment there is literally 0 downside to stacking like and how they do, even with viscous death you need someone to actually die first to proc it (which spamming 12 stacks of rapid regen + an ungodly amount of AOE heals certainly won’t allow).

MincVinyl · July 2020

I am fairly certain to fix the complaint that we all have about how easy it is to ball group there are these ways

Revert back to making over time effects (hots/dots) not stack from multiple sources

reduces lag (dense populations stacking effects>>procs and such
brings morph/build/class diversity due to group players having to choose different morphs to be overall stronger.
Hinders BiS metas that can appear due to one over time becoming strong one patch (think how they fixed sloads)
Groups still benefit with multiple of the same morph to get better uptime across their group compared to solo players
Easily done through battlespirit as to not mess with pve

Remove/limit cross healing, buffing, proccing

Prevents faction stacking pugs from getting out of control (limiting lag)
Probably best implemented by making groups of 5+ not be able to heal,buff,proc outside of group
Max group size could be reduced to 12 to further limit strength/server lag
Helps make sure heals go to group members instead of random lvl 10s running around
Small man interactions can still happen

Change the AP dynamics in cyrodil

Having everyone go straight to one point on a keep and seige for the keep tick is unhealthy
Resources could be worth more during keep seiges
Keeps ticks could be lessened for smaller groups/solos, or an incentive for the guild that contributes the most
Make a leaderboard for whatever guild contributes to the campaign the most, (maybe a next month ap bonus for the leading campaign)
A kills leaderboard could be created for the solo/small man players for an monthly ap bonus to the top 10
Remove the transit lines from gates to edge keeps, Connect gate keeps to towns/outposts and give bonus ap for those
Remove the hammer and destroyable bridges/gates......cant say how many faction stacks and server crashes weve seen since this change was implemented

There are two ways of really going about dealing with the population density issues. Either limit how much they do, or incentivize the population to spread out.

I suppose the third way is just overall waiting for the meta to change to favor small man groups over large groups.....but i doubt that will happen with how zos has talked recently about reducing the skill gap and catering to low apm players.

Sahidom · July 2020

Some of the healing proc sets are limited to group members only; this is one set towards cross group healing. If they limited the heals from skills the same way then you'd reduce the cross healing. As ball groups suffers damage, only their ball group may heal them. This does becomes mute when you can form a 24 man ball group in Curodiil.

MincVinyl · July 2020

Sahidom wrote: »

Some of the healing proc sets are limited to group members only; this is one set towards cross group healing. If they limited the heals from skills the same way then you'd reduce the cross healing. As ball groups suffers damage, only their ball group may heal them. This does becomes mute when you can form a 24 man ball group in Curodiil.

There were mentions in the pts notes that they are looking at making some sets only affect group members.

The cross group interaction cut would be directed to prevent 50+ players from causing a stain on the server. If it was found that even after that a 24 man could still strain the server enough. Then the max group size could be cut down. If they had to cut group size down, there would probably be another layer/mechanic to look into changing before going too extreme in just this department.

A settings toggle could probably be made that lets you make your heals only go on allies, which would help with things like healing ward or anytime you are trying to get a heal on an ally but a lvl10 is running around without a care in the world.

JRManron · July 2020

First you can only heal people on your group. They should cut the heal so that it shares the tooltip for the whole group.
It would heal more in smaller groups because less players to share the actual heal.

Second they should make it so that same heal cannot stack from other players but other morps of the same heal can.

And third they should make AOE heals scale so that it will cost more resources If spammed over and over again.
(Could do this with ground based AOE damage also)

Sheuib · July 2020

Don't make it so you can't heal someone outside of group. I should be able to run across someone in cyrodiil fighting and be able to heal that person. If you can't help random people in cyrodiil then there is no point in factions at all. Keeps should just be owned by guilds.

I think the best thing is just no stacking of the rapid regen on a person. Ground based heals should be able to stack because that means the group has to be stationary to get the most benefit. Yes this does make the ball groups that like to stand in a barn difficult to kill but PVE needs to be able to stack those.

Sheuib · July 2020

JRManron wrote: »

First you can only heal people on your group. They should cut the heal so that it shares the tooltip for the whole group.
It would heal more in smaller groups because less players to share the actual heal.

Second they should make it so that same heal cannot stack from other players but other morps of the same heal can.

And third they should make AOE heals scale so that it will cost more resources If spammed over and over again.
(Could do this with ground based AOE damage also)

Don't add cost increases to heals. That hurts solo players more than groups.

WeylandLabs · July 2020

Imagine some type of healing reduction set ... 🤣😂

lucky_Sage · July 2020

Groups should be capped at 12 and shouldn the able to buff or heal non group members

Kadoin · July 2020

Whatever happens, the game balance will still suck and guess what? If you play solo you're going to get the short end of the stick...

Onefrkncrzypope · July 2020

Imagine being a PvP healer during this test. Can't cast nothing

robpr · July 2020

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

Imagine some type of healing reduction set ... 🤣😂

We have that and poisons on top of that, but people complained that its too OP and set is practically useless as you wont be able to hit anybody.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Soldier_of_Anguish

You can craft poisons with that effect using Dragon blood or dragon bile, I dont remember. Its expensive toy.

TequilaFire · July 2020

Just get rid of sorc pets.

They heal and the server has to update the position and stats of the player and up to 2 combat pets instead of just the player.

MincVinyl · July 2020

Sheuib wrote: »

Don't make it so you can't heal someone outside of group. I should be able to run across someone in cyrodiil fighting and be able to heal that person. If you can't help random people in cyrodiil then there is no point in factions at all. Keeps should just be owned by guilds.

I think the best thing is just no stacking of the rapid regen on a person. Ground based heals should be able to stack because that means the group has to be stationary to get the most benefit. Yes this does make the ball groups that like to stand in a barn difficult to kill but PVE needs to be able to stack those.

Well it depends how they go about it. As many threads before talked have debated, one of the best ways they could go about it is for solo and small groups(1-4) players would be able to heal anyone. Large groups (5-24) can only heal/buff/setproc inside their group. Would it be a shame that you are in your 24 man group and you cant heal that lvl10, sure but at the same time if it cuts out lag then it is worth it. Even though that random may be on their own, they still have a 24 man group to hide in which is like having LoS in a way.

JRManron · July 2020

Sheuib wrote: »

JRManron wrote: »

First you can only heal people on your group. They should cut the heal so that it shares the tooltip for the whole group.
It would heal more in smaller groups because less players to share the actual heal.

Second they should make it so that same heal cannot stack from other players but other morps of the same heal can.

And third they should make AOE heals scale so that it will cost more resources If spammed over and over again.
(Could do this with ground based AOE damage also)

Don't add cost increases to heals. That hurts solo players more than groups.

If you play solo this should not effect you unless you are just running around spamming the same heal over and over againg which in mho is kinda supid thing to do if you play pvp and try to kill some1 too...

Fawn4287 · July 2020

When you think about 3 or 4 healers spamming radiating regen along with all the rapid regens in a giant zerg of 30-40 people is an incredible amount of calculating who is the lowest targets to heal again and again and again, I’m sure large groups are aware of the strain this puts on the server and with only 1 or 2 people having to focus on actually doing damage the rest spam this smart heal which leaves the group you are bombing entirely unable to actually even CC break or bar swap, giving them free kills because the server can’t handle the sheer amount of whats occurring in such a small location (in contrast to the entirety of cyrodil). Now with the enormous buff to proc damage sets this is still occurring but now with the added strain of literally hundreds of other proc sets firing off, which after the aoe changes fail to make significant change will probably result in a net increase in the problem.

Gilvoth · July 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

The major problem is PvP is group healing and purge, it has been for so incredibly long and ZOS refuses to approach this issue directly. Ballgroups only exist purely because of healing, how incredibly powerful, mindless and easy it is for people to spam heals and purge. With rapid regen working as it is, it is like everyone is a healer. Most group healers cruise around with a sword and board, defensive5 piece set set and 30+35k health and still pump out massive healing. Even major defile does nothing to these groups due to the fact that they essentially can’t be debuffed thanks to purge.

The number of issues instantly solved with a nerf to group healing, making purge, healing proc sets and several other heals cast on self only in PvP. The healing taken nerf didn’t work, the AOE nerfs won’t work but directly nerfing ball groups vital group healing and purge stacking will decimate them, or at the very least force them to change up strategies. A terrible proc set meta will make this even worse, these groups will instantly purge every proc damage DOT whilst pumping out a ridiculous amount of free damage, simply by light attacking and allow them to just run even more health!

make the good ballgroups work significantly harder to survive and cause the bad ballgroups to fail because at the moment there is literally 0 downside to stacking like and how they do, even with viscous death you need someone to actually die first to proc it (which spamming 12 stacks of rapid regen + an ungodly amount of AOE heals certainly won’t allow).

how could we not see this?
because that's your view, we simply have a different view that does not agree with yours.

Gilvoth · July 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

3 or 4 healers spamming radiating regen along with all the rapid regens in a giant zerg of 30-40 people is an incredible amount of calculating who is the lowest targets to heal again and again and again, I’m sure large groups are aware of the strain this puts on the server

i can agree with that, your right about that.