can we please add damage mitigation to shadow tree(NB TANK)
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Playboy_Shrek wrote: »WiredandTired wrote: »I've said this before but...
Blur should be moved to the Shadow tree, since it's a tank-related skill, and the Blur morph can be slightly changed. It should perhaps grant stacks of damage mitigation to direct attacks when hit by one (instead of Minor resistances) up to 10%. It will also passively grant Major Resolve/Ward making it a must have skill along with Dark Cloak to keep up the buff uptime.
In return, Veiled Strike should move to the Assassination tree where it fits best. It will then work with the tree passive to grant crit chance and crit dmg, instead of granting hp and armour buffs for slotting and using an offensive ability... which is entirely counter intuitive.
veiled strike and all other shadow tree abilities activates our shadow tree passive that provides literally all of our defense. the fact that you dont know this or how vital it is that our spammable activates this defensive passive means you don't understand nightblade at all.
Depends, it could work if the passive was reworked to allow major resolve to be active for the duration that a shadow ability is up for and instead of for 5 seconds. As it is you have shade currently and if blur and its morph is moved over will allow better major resolve up time. I also don't buy that it would be broken as you have plenty of other abilities like necro's bone armor that gives major resolve for about the same duration.
Either way, I am too of the mind that the mitigation lost from grim focus needs to come back into the NB toolkit. Since the shadow tree is the tanking tree, Refreshing Path or Shade should provide the 10% mitigation. My own wish would be for Shade to inherit the 10% mitigation, since its part of the signature NB toolkit. The 10% mitigation from shade and 8% major protection from dark cloak would benefit non-stealth pvp styles and satisfy pve tanks.
the thing about the mitigation that made it good is the fact that it was near permanent. pretty much 95% uptime using almost no resources.
if we move it to a skill. like you said, it will have way higher downtime. and way higher cost to keep it up. it would be a bit absurd.
I am for adding it in the shadow tree somehow as a passive and making it stack somehow. that would be most fair. the other suggestions just aren't great for uptime and resources.
I overlooked that part of it from a resource point of view. I usually either pvp, pve dps or pve heal. Easiest solution is that it could go on dark cloak for both pvp build diversity so mag/stamblades can brawl and tanks potentially get to drop grim focus to slot another skill.
I'm personally not a fan of "ramp up". So many other classes get buffs for much less work or anybody from guild skills.0 -
Playboy_Shrek✭✭✭Skjaldbjorn wrote: »As a (unwilling) tank main with a NB tank, I feel like this change is fine. It hurts NB tanks, but that's okay. NB tanks were already exceedingly strong in high-damage encounters. This 10% nerf should bring them more in line with the Sorcs, Wardens and DKs of the world. I would be okay with them getting an active for a few seconds to replace it, but a "set it and forget it" flat 10% damage mit was absurd to begin with.
it wasn't absurd because NB tank lacks a shield and a bust heal. and base defensive stats other get for free (besides major resolve. which all classes have access too). this literally leaves like 4 skills in the entire NB tree as tanking skills.2 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Playboy_Shrek wrote: »tank NB is getting a humongous nerf that would leave the tank NB build pretty much pointless as to why you'd use it besides wanting to play tank NB. and its not meant as a nerf but as a buff to DPS NB as its struggling a bit. can we please get a buff like 5%/10% rank1/2 on the shadow tree passive. something like
While a shadow skill is slotted: gain 5% damage reduction
rank II: gain 10% damage reduction.
or something that activates on a skill that works on both bars. like maybe have it on dark cloak and make it 30 seconds long instead of the 60. that would be acceptable.
NO, just NO
Tank is niche
no need to change whole class for a niche0 -
Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Playboy_Shrek wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »As a (unwilling) tank main with a NB tank, I feel like this change is fine. It hurts NB tanks, but that's okay. NB tanks were already exceedingly strong in high-damage encounters. This 10% nerf should bring them more in line with the Sorcs, Wardens and DKs of the world. I would be okay with them getting an active for a few seconds to replace it, but a "set it and forget it" flat 10% damage mit was absurd to begin with.
it wasn't absurd because NB tank lacks a shield and a bust heal. and base defensive stats other get for free (besides major resolve. which all classes have access too). this literally leaves like 4 skills in the entire NB tree as tanking skills.
Necros lack a shield or meaningful burst heal, either. Having their major and minor resists tied to their core heal is actually crazy good. No other tank class has that. They get the passive HP % from having Shadow skills slotted, which is also crazy good. Their ult gen is nuts, they still get Major Evasion in-kit, Nightblades have been one of the most overloaded classes since I started playing in Morrowind. Their passives are crazy strong, their in-kit synergy is the best of any class I have seen, etc.
NB tanks didn't need the flat 10% mit. At the very least, it needs to be tied to skill activation. Being able to pop grim focus before the fight even starts, leaving it on your back bar, build your stacks and pretend that's a "cost" for 10% flat damage mitigation that stacks with other sources is absolutely absurd.0 -
sabresandiego_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭If they add the mitigation back in: It should be on dark cloak (in addition to minor protection and the healing)
That way you have to give up the ability to go invisible, and it’s also only up for a short durationAli Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I've said this before but...
Blur should be moved to the Shadow tree, since it's a tank-related skill, and the Blur morph can be slightly changed. It should perhaps grant stacks of damage mitigation to direct attacks when hit by one (instead of Minor resistances) up to 10%. It will also passively grant Major Resolve/Ward making it a must have skill along with Dark Cloak to keep up the buff uptime.
In return, Veiled Strike should move to the Assassination tree where it fits best. It will then work with the tree passive to grant crit chance and crit dmg, instead of granting hp and armour buffs for slotting and using an offensive ability... which is entirely counter intuitive.
I don't think they'll do that. All original classes have skills from one tree in the other, for example DK chains is in the dmg tree instead the support tree. Sun shield is in the Aedric Spear tree where it should be in Dawn's Wrath (sun?), not to mention DAEDRIC mines in the dark Magic tree and not in the DAEDRIC Summoning tree. Inhale? In the Draconic tree. Fire BREATH? in the AF tree.
Just to mention some...Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »If they add the mitigation back in: It should be on dark cloak (in addition to minor protection and the healing)
That way you have to give up the ability to go invisible, and it’s also only up for a short duration
So Dark Cloak would grant Minor Resolve, Minor Protection, Major Protection, and 10% flat mitigation. No lol0 -
JinxxND✭✭✭✭I've said this before but...
Blur should be moved to the Shadow tree, since it's a tank-related skill, and the Blur morph can be slightly changed. It should perhaps grant stacks of damage mitigation to direct attacks when hit by one (instead of Minor resistances) up to 10%. It will also passively grant Major Resolve/Ward making it a must have skill along with Dark Cloak to keep up the buff uptime.
In return, Veiled Strike should move to the Assassination tree where it fits best. It will then work with the tree passive to grant crit chance and crit dmg, instead of granting hp and armour buffs for slotting and using an offensive ability... which is entirely counter intuitive.
This doesn't make sense with the kit yes major evasion is defensive no it's not spammable to match the shadow barrier passive nor does it fit in a skill rotation rather it is a long timer buff to keep up, it works in assassination by unlocking hemorrhage on the back bar and increases crit chance which can help with the odds to get a crit heal, some skills that can use some buffs like dark cloak for tanks/brawlers and increasing the base time of shadow barrier to 8 seconds from 6 to match dark cloaks durationEdited by JinxxND on July 27, 2020 10:50PMPC NA -
'Jinxx - Nightblade
'Jinxx X Necromancer0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Passive damage reduction from slotting a skill? I say no. Either you champion to keep it as it is on live or keep the healing and damage buff.
Bird of prey? Passive damage increase just for slotting?"We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.0 -
Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
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Minor Evasion. Doesn't stack with other sources of Minor Evasion. Grim Focus' mit stacks with everything. Want to give Grim Focus Minor Evasion? Cool with me. But only on the bar you have it slotted, like Wings. You know, for balance.0 -
Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Playboy_Shrek wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »As a (unwilling) tank main with a NB tank, I feel like this change is fine. It hurts NB tanks, but that's okay. NB tanks were already exceedingly strong in high-damage encounters. This 10% nerf should bring them more in line with the Sorcs, Wardens and DKs of the world. I would be okay with them getting an active for a few seconds to replace it, but a "set it and forget it" flat 10% damage mit was absurd to begin with.
it wasn't absurd because NB tank lacks a shield and a bust heal. and base defensive stats other get for free (besides major resolve. which all classes have access too). this literally leaves like 4 skills in the entire NB tree as tanking skills.
Necros lack a shield or meaningful burst heal, either. Having their major and minor resists tied to their core heal is actually crazy good. No other tank class has that. They get the passive HP % from having Shadow skills slotted, which is also crazy good. Their ult gen is nuts, they still get Major Evasion in-kit, Nightblades have been one of the most overloaded classes since I started playing in Morrowind. Their passives are crazy strong, their in-kit synergy is the best of any class I have seen, etc.
NB tanks didn't need the flat 10% mit. At the very least, it needs to be tied to skill activation. Being able to pop grim focus before the fight even starts, leaving it on your back bar, build your stacks and pretend that's a "cost" for 10% flat damage mitigation that stacks with other sources is absolutely absurd.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »If they add the mitigation back in: It should be on dark cloak (in addition to minor protection and the healing)
That way you have to give up the ability to go invisible, and it’s also only up for a short duration
So Dark Cloak would grant Minor Resolve, Minor Protection, Major Protection, and 10% flat mitigation. No lol
I'm guessing you must be one of those on the side of ZoS skill pruning and auditing. It would be major resolve from passive minor protection, and the 10% mitigation actually
. Minor resolve comes from blur and the heal on Dark Cloak is okay at best. As a whole it would be healthy for the nightblade class, more play diversity aside from ganking, reducing folks from raging at being ganked, and allow the class to remain a strong mitigation tank.
Oh yes necro, has resistant flesh as its burst heal to be totally correct there, but of course the defile is not that great.0 -
Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭WiredandTired wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »Playboy_Shrek wrote: »Skjaldbjorn wrote: »As a (unwilling) tank main with a NB tank, I feel like this change is fine. It hurts NB tanks, but that's okay. NB tanks were already exceedingly strong in high-damage encounters. This 10% nerf should bring them more in line with the Sorcs, Wardens and DKs of the world. I would be okay with them getting an active for a few seconds to replace it, but a "set it and forget it" flat 10% damage mit was absurd to begin with.
it wasn't absurd because NB tank lacks a shield and a bust heal. and base defensive stats other get for free (besides major resolve. which all classes have access too). this literally leaves like 4 skills in the entire NB tree as tanking skills.
Necros lack a shield or meaningful burst heal, either. Having their major and minor resists tied to their core heal is actually crazy good. No other tank class has that. They get the passive HP % from having Shadow skills slotted, which is also crazy good. Their ult gen is nuts, they still get Major Evasion in-kit, Nightblades have been one of the most overloaded classes since I started playing in Morrowind. Their passives are crazy strong, their in-kit synergy is the best of any class I have seen, etc.
NB tanks didn't need the flat 10% mit. At the very least, it needs to be tied to skill activation. Being able to pop grim focus before the fight even starts, leaving it on your back bar, build your stacks and pretend that's a "cost" for 10% flat damage mitigation that stacks with other sources is absolutely absurd.Skjaldbjorn wrote: »sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »If they add the mitigation back in: It should be on dark cloak (in addition to minor protection and the healing)
That way you have to give up the ability to go invisible, and it’s also only up for a short duration
So Dark Cloak would grant Minor Resolve, Minor Protection, Major Protection, and 10% flat mitigation. No lol
I'm guessing you must be one of those on the side of ZoS skill pruning and auditing. It would be major resolve from passive minor protection, and the 10% mitigation actually. Minor resolve comes from blur and the heal on Dark Cloak is okay at best. As a whole it would be healthy for the nightblade class, more play diversity aside from ganking, reducing folks from raging at being ganked, and allow the class to remain a strong mitigation tank.
Oh yes necro, has resistant flesh as its burst heal to be totally correct there, but of course the defile is not that great.
Ah, right, yes, I forgot about the minor being on blur. I haven't NB tanked in a bit, been mostly playing Sorc tank as of late.
No, it's not a terrific heal. It's good, just not great. I'd say it's roughly equivalent to Templar and Necro tanks. Yes, Necro has a burst heal, but the defile makes it irrelevant. Scythe is really good, but struggles in some scenarios super badly, such as portal in vCR.
As far as supporting Zos "pruning and auditing", to a point. Do I think some classes are outlier cases of grossly overstacked kits that need to be refined? Yeah. Nightblades and Necros have consistently been the two biggest offenders there. However, I feel this change is fine. I have NB tanked plenty of content. It's not like they can't survive content without it. Just replace it with refreshing path for more healing and you're gucci. People are acting like this will end NB tanks, and that simply isn't the case. They'll still be pretty desirable.0 -
Temeraire507✭✭✭I would not mind getting the resistances or at least a part of them back on my NB tank, the new bow isn't bad either for a NB tank though, does the 'healing' part in the tooltip apply to all healing or just crit healing? Regardless NB tanks already shine in the healing department. Yes, no real burstheal but the overall (self-)healing output of a NB tank is generally quite high for little cost in comparison to other tanks. They currently offer a very strong toolkit in their healing and defense and lots of strong passive buffs. The 10% damage reduction are nice but not too much needed in a lot of content while better healing will always be good. Despite this of course this change is hurting NB tanks' current roles though as they are often used when high mitigation is advantagous (it is not hurting the role of a partial healer too much of course).
Also I strongly disagree with balancing based mainly on PvP and the weird idea tanking would be a niche playstyle, good luck completing any meaningful content without a tank, I guess. Tank is one of the three base roles and probably even the most important one at that, with Healer being close seconds as both of them can easily make or break a run with the Tank probably having the even more important and powerful job in harder content
I would also not switch Blur and Veiled Strike as the passives procced from veiled Strike can be quite important to DD or PvP characters.0 -
Playboy_Shrek✭✭✭Temeraire507 wrote: »I would not mind getting the resistances or at least a part of them back on my NB tank, the new bow isn't bad either for a NB tank though, does the 'healing' part in the tooltip apply to all healing or just crit healing? Regardless NB tanks already shine in the healing department. Yes, no real burstheal but the overall (self-)healing output of a NB tank is generally quite high for little cost in comparison to other tanks. They currently offer a very strong toolkit in their healing and defense and lots of strong passive buffs. The 10% damage reduction are nice but not too much needed in a lot of content while better healing will always be good. Despite this of course this change is hurting NB tanks' current roles though as they are often used when high mitigation is advantagous (it is not hurting the role of a partial healer too much of course).
Also I strongly disagree with balancing based mainly on PvP and the weird idea tanking would be a niche playstyle, good luck completing any meaningful content without a tank, I guess. Tank is one of the three base roles and probably even the most important one at that, with Healer being close seconds as both of them can easily make or break a run with the Tank probably having the even more important and powerful job in harder content
I would also not switch Blur and Veiled Strike as the passives procced from veiled Strike can be quite important to DD or PvP characters.
NB have a lot of chip healing. but they have no burst healing. the harder dungeons, trials mostly require burst healing not chip healing. NBs are best at holding trash mobs and such but those are never a problem. I would go as far as to say if this goes through templar tank would probably be better than nightblade tank. this is not a fair nerf at all.0 -
Skjaldbjorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Playboy_Shrek wrote: »NB have a lot of chip healing. but they have no burst healing. the harder dungeons, trials mostly require burst healing not chip healing. NBs are best at holding trash mobs and such but those are never a problem. I would go as far as to say if this goes through templar tank would probably be better than nightblade tank. this is not a fair nerf at all.
Uhhhh, as someone who has cleared most HM trials on my NB tank, incorrect lol. Their healing, again, is not amazing, but isn't bad by any means. NB MTs were king on several fights purely because of their insane passive mitigation. Removing it brings them back in line.0 -
Temeraire507✭✭✭Playboy_Shrek wrote: »Temeraire507 wrote: »I would not mind getting the resistances or at least a part of them back on my NB tank, the new bow isn't bad either for a NB tank though, does the 'healing' part in the tooltip apply to all healing or just crit healing? Regardless NB tanks already shine in the healing department. Yes, no real burstheal but the overall (self-)healing output of a NB tank is generally quite high for little cost in comparison to other tanks. They currently offer a very strong toolkit in their healing and defense and lots of strong passive buffs. The 10% damage reduction are nice but not too much needed in a lot of content while better healing will always be good. Despite this of course this change is hurting NB tanks' current roles though as they are often used when high mitigation is advantagous (it is not hurting the role of a partial healer too much of course).
Also I strongly disagree with balancing based mainly on PvP and the weird idea tanking would be a niche playstyle, good luck completing any meaningful content without a tank, I guess. Tank is one of the three base roles and probably even the most important one at that, with Healer being close seconds as both of them can easily make or break a run with the Tank probably having the even more important and powerful job in harder content
I would also not switch Blur and Veiled Strike as the passives procced from veiled Strike can be quite important to DD or PvP characters.
NB have a lot of chip healing. but they have no burst healing. the harder dungeons, trials mostly require burst healing not chip healing. NBs are best at holding trash mobs and such but those are never a problem. I would go as far as to say if this goes through templar tank would probably be better than nightblade tank. this is not a fair nerf at all.
I disagree with that. Cloak ticks for 3.5 - 4k every second on a meta maintank build without a crit. One cast lasts 8 seconds and heals every second. With a normal critchance of about 25% 2 of those will crit on average and therefor hit about 7k. That would be an average 35-38k per cast which is usually more than a Dragonblood or Polar Wind would heal for the same cost. Also almost all bosses give you a few seconds window between heavy hits and you can dodge to make it even longer if you really need to and still get healing from your HoT. Some NB Tanks keep up refreshing Path on top of that for another 1k per second that can also crit for 1.5-2k. Which is comparable to a DK using Cinder Storm but fits way better on your Bar as a NB tank than CS does on a DK at least from my experience. On top of that you can always use the Morph of Defensive Posture that you prefer and while shielded or activating shields a lot HoTs will benefit you more than Burstheals most of the time.1