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Does Zenimax listen to the community?
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭holden_caulfield wrote: »The forum users are NOT the community. Just a small %
I imagine it is like trying to listen to music on your phone while attending a concert. Without ear buds.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
BRCOURTN✭✭✭✭✭Yes, I'm really spiritually and emotionally satisfied by the amount of developer interaction and resultant change we've seen. My parents aren't even divorcing anymore!holden_caulfield wrote: »The forum users are NOT the community. Just a small %
I imagine it is like trying to listen to music on your phone while attending a concert. Without ear buds.
I'm not a fan of analogies, but I really like this one.1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kiralyn2000 wrote: »Various super-jaded gamers who have the "devs are my enemy" attitude: Nope, they don't listen at all!
Yep, sounds like a typical game forum. /eyeroll
I always enjoy the 'devs are trying to destroy the game' comments.
This is why I always try to teach my 4 year old frustration tolerance. There are going to be frustrations in life, but are we going to amplify their significance and get bent out of shape to the point where we start lashing out. Sometimes we need to identify our emotions and separate them from the facts of what is bothering us so that we can productive address the problem.
Threads that mention specifics like 'my ping is regularly hitting X' or 'game client crashed Y times changing zones' are great. 'Game doesn't work' comments are largely useless as, clearly, people are playing the game daily for hours at a time. 'ZO$ is destroying game' are just argumentative and a bit silly as they show up year after year, yet still no destruction.1 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The poll is skewed due to the commentary so no vote.
They do listen, extra wayshrines added in Skyrim, the ability to search in guild vendors, ability to multi craft items. The latter two are not easy coding items and yet they were done. Coding takes personnel and allocating people to code those changes took them away from other projects. There are only so many coders and so much money. Also the new expansion was GREAT as well as Summerset, the details take time also.
I recently started working my way from the most recent expansion the oldest with a new toon and the older back in time I get the more lame the zones get really. Delves were simpler, bosses, Trials, you name it. It's all improved.0 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, I'm really spiritually and emotionally satisfied by the amount of developer interaction and resultant change we've seen. My parents aren't even divorcing anymore!Last year: "There's too many events!"
This year: It looks like they're cutting back on the number of events.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!0 -
rexagamemnon✭✭✭✭✭
✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!Rarely they listen. And when they disagree with you say, they delete the comment.
Who is tony timpa?0 -
Wilddog73✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!rexagamemnon wrote: »Rarely they listen. And when they disagree with you say, they delete the comment.
Who is tony timpa?
Welcome to purple team, my battle brother.0 -
Lotus781✭✭✭✭Never. Whenever I see this "game", my eyes sink into their sockets and I ironically find myself relating to the soulless husk of my character. Zenimax is dead inside and so is my hope for this game.No i feel they treat the player base wth contempt.0
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amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do the devs listen to the community?
Well... I am a member of the community, and have been since the beta (before that, if you include following the development of this game), and this game never has followed my ideas for what I thought this game should be. As a fan of the Elder Scrolls series (Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim are my top 3 games of all time), ESO includes none of the elements that make me love TES in the first place. I feel that other MMO's have better captured the spirit and freedom of TES than ESO has, and I have never sensed even a desire from the devs to want to implement more free form into the game, rather than guide us into very specific and limited build set-ups to go through the post-WOW standard MMO assembly line.
On the flip side, I think this game has improved *greatly* since I played back during beta and launch. There is loads more content, and always something to do, and even if I don't like this game for the same reasons I like TES games, I do find enjoyment and engagement out of the content this game provides. And after 6 years, I feel there is tons of it. Loads of lands to explore, loads of dungeons and trials and various forms of PVP and various forms of crafting, lots of housing, personalization tools like outfits and styles. The content in this game seems endless, for players of all levels for all different types of playstyles and objectives, from solo, to small group, to large group, and everything in between.
As we are all customers in some way (we either subscribe to ESO+, or have all at least *bought* the game), I do believe our opinions and voices matter.
But there does come a point where I feel like players feel *too* entitled, as if the devs owe them something. At some point, this is the devs' product, and it's up to us to decide if that product is for us or not.
Personally, I have gone back and forth. Sometimes, this product has been for me. Sometimes, it has not been for me. Right now, it is for me, and I'm probably enjoying it now more than I ever have.
I have lots of opinions about this game, about things I think it does well, things I think it does poorly, and things that I would like to see changed. And it's great to have that voice. But at some point, we all have to accept that this game is what it is, whether that's good, bad or neutral, and decide if it's what we want.1 -
Miswar✭✭✭✭✭Never. Whenever I see this "game", my eyes sink into their sockets and I ironically find myself relating to the soulless husk of my character. Zenimax is dead inside and so is my hope for this game.They simply do not listen. Only listen to new casual players to get max. crownstore sales. Otherwise nothing.0
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Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I believe they listen to a lot of what is said on here and on fansites etc, and I hope they ignore most of it. The way in which the poll options were posed gives a pretty good indication of why most of the feedback they get in this way is utterly pointless. Even when they do get meaningful feedback such as on the PTS forum, most of it is based on the players' particular circumstances and doesn't give a balanced overall picture. Developers get a much more balanced picture from their own ingame metrics - including on the PTS.3 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think it is unfair to suggest they don't listen to their players. The issue is that we as players don't always agree on what is best. It is also fair to say that our interests (the players and the devs) are not necessarily 100% in line. So it is also unreasonable to always expect them to put our interests above their own.4 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I think it is unfair to suggest they don't listen to their players. The issue is that we as players don't always agree on what is best. It is also fair to say that our interests (the players and the devs) are not necessarily 100% in line. So it is also unreasonable to always expect them to put our interests above their own.
Exactly.
"Do the devs listen to the community?"
WHO in the community?
I can guarantee that if I list down the things that I would like to see changed in this game, my list will differ from your list, and your list will differ from the next person's, and theirs from the person after that.
As a community, outside of things like "better server performance", WE don't even want the same thing.
See: every argument about this game (or any game) ever.
If ZOS used my ideas, I would feel listened to, but you wouldn't If ZOS listened to your ideas, you would feel listened to, but I wouldn't. If ZOS tried to implement a compromise between my ideas and yours, it's likely that neither of us would feel listened to because we'd only get crumbs of what we actually wanted.
That's why I said, at some point, we as the playerbase have to stop feeling so entitled, and just accept the game as is, and decide if that product is for us or not.Edited by amm7sb14_ESO on July 23, 2020 7:32PM2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I think it is unfair to suggest they don't listen to their players. The issue is that we as players don't always agree on what is best. It is also fair to say that our interests (the players and the devs) are not necessarily 100% in line. So it is also unreasonable to always expect them to put our interests above their own.
Exactly.
"Do the devs listen to the community?"
WHO in the community?
I can guarantee that if I list down the things that I would like to see changed in this game, my list will differ from your list, and your list will differ from the next person's, and theirs from the person after that.
As a community, outside of things like "better server performance", WE don't even want the same thing.
Well, obviously they should be listening to ME. Right?
Also, "better server performance", ahead of other things, is not going to be a universal request. That is a mission for some, but not for everyone. I am sure that there are plenty playing can find something for ZOS to work on that is not "performance".
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
PrimusNephilim✭✭✭✭✭what a crap poll.....they just added two wayshrines in Western Skyrim because they listened to the community, look at all the nerfs sets get because of players asking for them2
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I_am_Groot wrote: »what a crap poll.....they just added two wayshrines in Western Skyrim because they listened to the community, look at all the nerfs sets get because of players asking for them
Another point that proves my comment true, that Zos does in fact listen to the community. The results of the poll are not relevant as there is proof Zos listens and they even implement good suggestions that are workable.2 -
TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭Never. Whenever I see this "game", my eyes sink into their sockets and I ironically find myself relating to the soulless husk of my character. Zenimax is dead inside and so is my hope for this game.I_am_Groot wrote: »what a crap poll.....they just added two wayshrines in Western Skyrim because they listened to the community, look at all the nerfs sets get because of players asking for them
Another point that proves my comment true, that Zos does in fact listen to the community. The results of the poll are not relevant as there is proof Zos listens and they even implement good suggestions that are workable.
Two years plus of performance issues is proof they DON'T listen. They literally just fixed most of the performance issues for the MYM event, then downgrades us back down to the trash can performance we had all 2019 and 2020 prior to the event.
The treatment people get on this forum is more proof they would rather not hear from us. They do the absolute bare minimum in terms of customer relations and service at all times.
The entire dev focus appears to be on crown store and new customers now. There is zero effort toward customer retention as far as I can tell. If you are a long time player who's not happy with any aspect of the game, ZOS will literally ask you to move along, and if you don't, they will force you to.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TineaCruris wrote: »I_am_Groot wrote: »what a crap poll.....they just added two wayshrines in Western Skyrim because they listened to the community, look at all the nerfs sets get because of players asking for them
Another point that proves my comment true, that Zos does in fact listen to the community. The results of the poll are not relevant as there is proof Zos listens and they even implement good suggestions that are workable.
Two years plus of performance issues is proof they DON'T listen.
Not at all. The fact they had a performance improvement plan pretty much shows they did listen. The fact it failed shows they either significantly underestimated what needed to be done or that they are fairly inept.
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TineaCruris wrote: »I_am_Groot wrote: »what a crap poll.....they just added two wayshrines in Western Skyrim because they listened to the community, look at all the nerfs sets get because of players asking for them
Another point that proves my comment true, that Zos does in fact listen to the community. The results of the poll are not relevant as there is proof Zos listens and they even implement good suggestions that are workable.
Two years plus of performance issues is proof they DON'T listen.
Not at all. The fact they had a performance improvement plan pretty much shows they did listen. The fact it failed shows they either significantly underestimated what needed to be done or that they are fairly inept.
I think they have significantly underestimated the work that needs to be done.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
Destai✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!Why not negotiate? Why not tell us what the problem is with our ideas and work together to come up with a solution or alternative? I'd love to see some community/dev debate.
Debate would be helpful, but I don't think they're prepared for that unfiltered opinion. The forum rules are sadly no conducive to being speaking their minds openly.
That being said, we don't know all of the technical issues impacted issue resolution. We only have our end-user experience. From what I've read, they rely on server metrics often. Based on that impression, I think their approach should be less quantitative and more qualitative.0 -
TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭Never. Whenever I see this "game", my eyes sink into their sockets and I ironically find myself relating to the soulless husk of my character. Zenimax is dead inside and so is my hope for this game.TineaCruris wrote: »I_am_Groot wrote: »what a crap poll.....they just added two wayshrines in Western Skyrim because they listened to the community, look at all the nerfs sets get because of players asking for them
Another point that proves my comment true, that Zos does in fact listen to the community. The results of the poll are not relevant as there is proof Zos listens and they even implement good suggestions that are workable.
Two years plus of performance issues is proof they DON'T listen.
Not at all. The fact they had a performance improvement plan pretty much shows they did listen. The fact it failed shows they either significantly underestimated what needed to be done or that they are fairly inept.
If a person or a companies words do not match their actions over a significant period of time a reasonable person stops believing the words coming from that person or business.
Do you have any results you can point to that show performance has improved in the last 18 months?
It's way past time to judge ZOS on their results rather than their promises. ...and they are not producing results. They are only producing promises.Edited by TineaCruris on July 26, 2020 11:59PM2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TineaCruris wrote: »TineaCruris wrote: »I_am_Groot wrote: »what a crap poll.....they just added two wayshrines in Western Skyrim because they listened to the community, look at all the nerfs sets get because of players asking for them
Another point that proves my comment true, that Zos does in fact listen to the community. The results of the poll are not relevant as there is proof Zos listens and they even implement good suggestions that are workable.
Two years plus of performance issues is proof they DON'T listen.
Not at all. The fact they had a performance improvement plan pretty much shows they did listen. The fact it failed shows they either significantly underestimated what needed to be done or that they are fairly inept.
If a person or a companies words do not match their actions over a significant period of time a reasonable person stops believing the words coming from that person or business.
Do you have any results you can point to that show performance has improved in the last 18 months?
It's way past time to judge ZOS on their results rather than their promises. ...and they are not producing results. They are only producing promises.
Interestingly I am quoted saying Zos' changes failed yet asked to provide proof that performance improved. I think it would be more appropriate to suggest they are only producing failures.
It is with Elonso that I agree. They are correct Zos underestimated what was and is needed which is basically another way to say what I said.0 -
redshirt_49✭✭✭✭Yes, I'm really spiritually and emotionally satisfied by the amount of developer interaction and resultant change we've seen. My parents aren't even divorcing anymore!Well, that's kind of the whole point of PTS phases. Not to mention, that a lot of the stuff we have in-game now came at the suggestion of players.0 -
SedoUmbra✭✭✭Yes, I'm really spiritually and emotionally satisfied by the amount of developer interaction and resultant change we've seen. My parents aren't even divorcing anymore!I think every game's community says this. At least all the ones I've been apart of. And, they're also all wrong. Of course the game devs listen to the players. We are literally the life-force of the game. If they annoy us all, then we stop playing and they lose money. There is no universe in which it is financially benefical for the devs of a game with up-coming content or on-going microtransactions to ignore their players. The only problem is that if 40% of the playerbase want Change A; 30% of the playerbase wants Change B; 20% of the playerbase wants Change C; and 10% of the playerbase wants no change to be made at all it makes the most sense to make Change A, despite the fact that you're disappointing the majority of the playerbase.
You'd start to see a lot more changes that you liked if all of you woke up tomorrow with identical opinions.2 -
Xzysts✭✭✭ESO VR!!1!1!1!Idk what I voted for, but that is a little unfair. ZOS of course listens to the community, but they can't do everything we ask of them. Part of the issue is that some parts of the community believe in different changes and fixes compared to the other parts of the community. Sometimes changes get made that we don't want, but maybe people on the other side do.-Goblinew on YouTube
Community Discord: hK4dFwE7zZ
All-class player w/over 8,000 hours across multiple platforms0 -
Magenpie✭✭✭✭✭At the moment, all they can hear is the mass wailing and shouting of a million lost souls all clamouring in anger and despair.
Like the noise Hell might make.Edited by Magenpie on July 29, 2020 11:57AM0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At the moment, all they can hear is the mass wailing and shouting of a million lost souls all clamouring in anger and despair.
Like the noise Hell might make.
I assure you the noise of all those souls is just a whimper next to the sound of money pouring into the clown store.
The day people finally stop rewarding poor services, ZOS will either fix their stuff, or close shop. I'm fine either way.2 -
MJallday✭✭✭✭✭
✭Never. Whenever I see this "game", my eyes sink into their sockets and I ironically find myself relating to the soulless husk of my character. Zenimax is dead inside and so is my hope for this game.The question was “does ZOS listen to the community”?
My response: take a look at the PTS notes for the next patch
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JTD✭✭✭Never. Whenever I see this "game", my eyes sink into their sockets and I ironically find myself relating to the soulless husk of my character. Zenimax is dead inside and so is my hope for this game.At the moment, all they can hear is the mass wailing and shouting of a million lost souls all clamouring in anger and despair.
Like the noise Hell might make.
I assure you the noise of all those souls is just a whimper next to the sound of money pouring into the clown store.
The day people finally stop rewarding poor services, ZOS will either fix their stuff, or close shop. I'm fine either way.
It's a sad truth. To many consumers are loyal to 'their' brand and defend it's practice to the death.
It might be a negative standpoint but a company isn't there for the consumer.Edited by JTD on July 29, 2020 12:14PM1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TineaCruris wrote: »TineaCruris wrote: »I_am_Groot wrote: »what a crap poll.....they just added two wayshrines in Western Skyrim because they listened to the community, look at all the nerfs sets get because of players asking for them
Another point that proves my comment true, that Zos does in fact listen to the community. The results of the poll are not relevant as there is proof Zos listens and they even implement good suggestions that are workable.
Two years plus of performance issues is proof they DON'T listen.
Not at all. The fact they had a performance improvement plan pretty much shows they did listen. The fact it failed shows they either significantly underestimated what needed to be done or that they are fairly inept.
If a person or a companies words do not match their actions over a significant period of time a reasonable person stops believing the words coming from that person or business.
Actually, I am fairly convinced that the issue is not that ZOS is not improving performance, but that some people simply don't care about those performance improvements. To them, not important.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0
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