Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Damn, people really be wanting magsorc to have a ranged stun that has 28 meters range , definitely can’t see any problem with that. No stam class will be able to touch it ever. I don’t want to read something about run a gap closer because that won’t be 28 meters in range or stun. Actually most mag classes won’t be able to touch it either and if they do msorcs will just ball of lightning.

Msorc toolkit right now is really good imo. People like to complain that msorc is strong because it can spam endless at range. While those msorc are annoying in general they aren’t hard to kill at all.

However, I feel like there is a big jump in the skill level of msorcs I run into. The endless spammers are honestly easy kills. Then for whatever reason there’s a lot of ....average msorc and they too aren’t much of a problem. But, I don’t think some people realize just how good msorc can be. Streak is a great stun, a good msorcs will know it’s exact range and can stun you just as they reach you. Ball of lightning is an amazing skill too. Will the current healing nerfs I don’t think it would be a good idea to buff shields size. Ultimately I don’t think it needs a nerf but it certainly doesn’t need a buff in this meta.

What could use a few buffs are stamsorcs.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Damn, people really be wanting magsorc to have a ranged stun that has 28 meters range , definitely can’t see any problem with that. No stam class will be able to touch it ever. I don’t want to read something about run a gap closer because that won’t be 28 meters in range or stun. Actually most mag classes won’t be able to touch it either and if they do msorcs will just ball of lightning.

Msorc toolkit right now is really good imo. People like to complain that msorc is strong because it can spam endless at range. While those msorc are annoying in general they aren’t hard to kill at all.

However, I feel like there is a big jump in the skill level of msorcs I run into. The endless spammers are honestly easy kills. Then for whatever reason there’s a lot of ....average msorc and they too aren’t much of a problem. But, I don’t think some people realize just how good msorc can be. Streak is a great stun, a good msorcs will know it’s exact range and can stun you just as they reach you. Ball of lightning is an amazing skill too. Will the current healing nerfs I don’t think it would be a good idea to buff shields size. Ultimately I don’t think it needs a nerf but it certainly doesn’t need a buff in this meta.

What could use a few buffs are stamsorcs.

Mag sorc had a 28 M stun for pretty much all of this games lifepsan and it wasnt horribly OP. What is op is a AOE, unblockable undodgeable stun. Maybe instead a single target, both blockable and dodgeable stun would be far less oppressive.

We had that in Reach.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Alchimiste1 wrote: »

Damn, people really be wanting magsorc to have a ranged stun that has 28 meters range , definitely can’t see any problem with that. No stam class will be able to touch it ever. I don’t want to read something about run a gap closer because that won’t be 28 meters in range or stun. Actually most mag classes won’t be able to touch it either and if they do msorcs will just ball of lightning.

Msorc toolkit right now is really good imo. People like to complain that msorc is strong because it can spam endless at range. While those msorc are annoying in general they aren’t hard to kill at all.

However, I feel like there is a big jump in the skill level of msorcs I run into. The endless spammers are honestly easy kills. Then for whatever reason there’s a lot of ....average msorc and they too aren’t much of a problem. But, I don’t think some people realize just how good msorc can be. Streak is a great stun, a good msorcs will know it’s exact range and can stun you just as they reach you. Ball of lightning is an amazing skill too. Will the current healing nerfs I don’t think it would be a good idea to buff shields size. Ultimately I don’t think it needs a nerf but it certainly doesn’t need a buff in this meta.

What could use a few buffs are stamsorcs.

Mag sorc had a 28 M stun for pretty much all of this games lifepsan and it wasnt horribly OP. What is op is a AOE, unblockable undodgeable stun. Maybe instead a single target, both blockable and dodgeable stun would be far less oppressive.

We had that in Reach.

I am quite aware. Flame/shock reach stunned for what? 5 years? It was an asinine change and one that hurts all ranged builds. There is a reason mag blade is all but extinct.

Yes, but you'll meet a lot of resistance here for your proposition. ESO players don't want tactical ranged kiting, they want close-range brawls. The Reach change proves that and it'll never change. That's also why Cage is so useless, it's useless by deliberate design.

Aeternum113 wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Yeah, sorcs complaining really be funny mon. I mean, myself coming from an MMO where a skill similar to streak without the baked in stun has a 15 or 20 second cooldown and in ESO sorcs can spam this until they run out of magicka and dark deal to keep near infinite sustain, it just feels so easy to kite around and survive with sorc compared to other classes, really feels like easy life.

Take me as an example, I have been playing ESO for maybe less than 3 months, absolutely suck at nocp with every class, decided to jump in the sorc train for a while and level a sorc in BG's and just stomp everyone along the way, get to 50 and still get much better results out of the box playing a sorc than any other class. But sure, sorc needs buffs or fixes, like it's not already the noob friendliest class so imagine it in competent hands. If people think sorcs are weak, go play a few different classes then and you'll be crying to return back to your sorc easy life in no time. Just too much hypocrisy and bias in this thread.

I just really don't like playing sorc or the class fantasy or the ugly looking lightning form, it's a shame I have to gimp myself and play way less competitive classes for the sake of playing a class fantasy I love most instead of choosing the op cheapest way to stay competitive.

Your sorc is pretty much a low MMR fury spammer.

Atleast on PC NA there are only a handful of mag sorcs who actually are competitive.

Actually spamming Force Pulse and the consequent constant fragment procs and not to mention the amazing curse that deals massive damage 2 times per only one gcd wields much better results than spamming fury on a cluster of 4 players and hope that it lands on the one being focused for the execute. So no, I'm not a fury spammer, there's far more efficient ways and still noob friendly ways to play a sorc than spamming fury. But if you thought I mean sorcs are op and easy to play just from an active ability perspective then I urge you to also read the passives and compare them to how underwhelming passives are in some other classes. I think you're being pretty biased and defensive about this topic but fair enough we all have our opinions. If all what I see in low mmr BG's is an infestation of sorcs making smart use of the class and using spammable + constant fragment procs, I don't know where this fury spammers novel comes from. In a semi comparable note I suppose people could roll other classes and be as oppressive as a sorc from range by say spamming snipe, but then again people have also learned that sorcs have access to superior sustain and are near immortal as they can get out of sticky situations much better than any other class by spamming streak a couple of times to get outside LOS and couple it with a couple dark deals which are luxuries no other classes have. Playing a sorc just feels like driving a really nice high end car, if you don't feel that way well maybe you should try a driving a slower car aka other classes so you can give some more value to the kit devs have given to sorcs, you'll be finding yourself thinking "damn If I was playing sorc I'd not have died under this situation" in BG's plenty of times.

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Sorcerer has been nerfed constantly over the past years and while some of it was justified it’s just too much. My ideas to fix it are simple and should make the class better while buffing all mag classes simultaneously.

1. Make Conjured Ward not Stack with Annulment but make them both scale with spell damage and max magicka and remove the cap
2. Make bound armaments undodgeable because the skill is so loud that people in other zones are dodging it.
3. The class hasn’t played right since the stun was taken off frags and we all know it. It’s been fun to meteor streak people through block but you’re a class that’s supposed to be about range and now you have to be in melee range to use streak or in range of clench with a master’s inferno.

Let me know what you guys think.

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

I'm posting a complete sorcerer rework to the normal combat forums here in a minute when i get it typed out.

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

I'm posting a complete sorcerer rework to the normal combat forums here in a minute when i get it typed out.

We dont need a rework. We simply need a revert the class to one tamriel or pre one tamriel

It's mainly a rework to axe the zoo builds and its up now.

pieratsos wrote: »

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Yeah, sorcs complaining really be funny mon. I mean, myself coming from an MMO where a skill similar to streak without the baked in stun has a 15 or 20 second cooldown and in ESO sorcs can spam this until they run out of magicka and dark deal to keep near infinite sustain, it just feels so easy to kite around and survive with sorc compared to other classes, really feels like easy life.

Take me as an example, I have been playing ESO for maybe less than 3 months, absolutely suck at nocp with every class, decided to jump in the sorc train for a while and level a sorc in BG's and just stomp everyone along the way, get to 50 and still get much better results out of the box playing a sorc than any other class. But sure, sorc needs buffs or fixes, like it's not already the noob friendliest class so imagine it in competent hands. If people think sorcs are weak, go play a few different classes then and you'll be crying to return back to your sorc easy life in no time. Just too much hypocrisy and bias in this thread.

I just really don't like playing sorc or the class fantasy or the ugly looking lightning form, it's a shame I have to gimp myself and play way less competitive classes for the sake of playing a class fantasy I love most instead of choosing the op cheapest way to stay competitive.

Why would you bother to come to a conclusion about post 50 magsorc gameplay being broken when you yourself even admit that you didn't play one at that level? Your example is embarrassing. Regardless, any class is pretty good out of the box when you're playing ultra low MMR so long as you can press a few buttons and know when to heal. I routinely play magnb and stamnb as well as magsorc and tend to do fine in the lower MMR those characters have because it really doesn't matter what you play at that skill level. We should balance for the higher skill brackets only. That's where it really matters.

OBJnoob wrote: »

I haven’t played magsorc in a while... is rune cage so bad now that nobody uses it or is it just forgotten because streak is so good? I think most people don’t like it because it has a weird delay sometimes but honestly it’s still a very reliable stun. I’m not sure how much more reliable a 28m unblockable stun could be. I guess it could have its timing adjusted to correspond better with frags so that they land at the same time because sorc’s identity is about 100—>0ing somebody from super far away and that is probably what the game intend.... NOOOOO. You can’t make these changes. It will destroy pvp balance.

And at the same time... if sorcs need a tiny little nerf instead of a buff (certainly that is closer to the truth,) can it please NOT be to streak? I feel like if streak (admittedly OP,) gets gutted in any way it’s just going to hurt stamsorcs... as usual.

Rune is really only ever used by idiots, stubborn people, or zerglings. It's bad. Really, really bad. There's more than enough time to react with a dodge every single time the ability is cast.

Where did I say I didn't play a sorc at lvl 50? I actually said the contrary. I disagree balance should revolve around a minority of elitist players and so does ZoS.

Here you mentioned most of your experience is sub-50:

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Take me as an example, I have been playing ESO for maybe less than 3 months, absolutely suck at nocp with every class, decided to jump in the sorc train for a while and level a sorc in BG's and just stomp everyone along the way, get to 50 and still get much better results out of the box playing a sorc than any other class.

Also I went on to say that low MMR, even at 50+, is not good grounds to judge what is and isn't overperforming. Anything can do well at that level. I don't want to gatekeep you out of the conversation, because magsorc is definitely a noob stomper and I have no right to say who can and can't post, but where does that have a place in an overall discussion about fixing endgame sorc issues when you admit you're not experienced?

Anything can do good at that level but not anything can do it better and easier and with less effort for better results than most other classes, that much should be obvious. It's a simple indicator that the class is suited and equipped with a better toolkit that allows less experienced players to perform much better than they would if playing other classes, and what does that say indicate to you? And what is your definition of endgame? So are low MMR players not endgame paying subscribers and deserve less tuning than the minority of elitist high MMR endgame players? You know that's not how ESO will look at it right?

You want to sugar coat sorcs as not being a strong class when there are classes in much worst spots? Nice one at being biased at the the class you probably main.

Maybe just understand the simple fact that what some posters in this thread including me are contesting about the OP is that these "fixes" will make the class even more powerful, at a time where the class is probably already the most powerful class and any increases in power will shift the already non existent balance into fading even further, or at a time where the class is DEFINITELY not the class under performing the most and that other classes require more urgent attention, being that buffs or class "fixes". That clear enough now?

Umm the only thing that it indicates is the class is the ultimate noob stomper. No one denies that but that's irrelevant to actual competitive end game pvp. That's what people are telling you.

No, one said that low mmr players are not paying subscribers. But whether you like it or not the game shouldnt be balanced around people who don't know much about pvp.

So maybe you just need to understand the fact that some people play the game for a lot more than 3 months and maybe just maybe they are in a better position to judge what needs fixing and what doesn't and that's not specific to sorcs but prety much everything.