How To Fix Sorcerer

Rahar

OBJnoob wrote: »

@Rahar okay fair point but you don’t see how fixing that problem is also buffing them? It’s not like you’re pointing out an actual glitch you’re pointing out traveling times of projectiles and saying the current delay values are arbitrary but what are your proposed changes if not arbitrary? You’re just the arbitrator now. People have a right to disagree. And saying that magsorc functions pretty well -v- other specs is pretty much exhibit a.

There was never any debate about magsorc functioning well. I've said this a million other times: It's strong, but not the best.

And of course you have the right to disagree. I'll use an example to illustrate the kind of point I wanted to make: Consider shield scaling. Right now, it's based completely off of max magicka and health, with no factor for considering spell damage. Building max mag is almost forced on you when you play magsorc because of this, since the class relies on shields due to bad built in class healing. If the shields were changed to factor in spell damage, and assuming that building pure spell damage, pure max mag, or somewhere in between always yielded about the same size of a shield, how is that a buff? The skill would function the same with the same kind of power. It's just opening the doors to build diversity, which is good for the game.

Tammany

No reliable cc outside of streak >.>

Lord-Otto

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Lol sorc still godmode. Who thinks otherwise lol

No ranged stun eh?
What happened to rune prison?
Streak ?
Clench? (Not a class skill true)

Rune is telegraphed, slow and dodgable. Will never secure the killing blow on a decent player.
Streak doesn't work in a combo on a lot of terrain and console. Medium range.
Clench is slow, dodgable and blockable. Medium range.
Effectively, there's no proper ranged stun now, ZOS made sure of that. While this helps against zergplay (barely), it also means that the reason people usually pick caster classes, nuking from range, is gone in this game. And zergs still rule the game.

MartiniDaniels

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

Tolino

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

And even more Magnecro

Aeternum113

Yeah, sorcs complaining really be funny mon. I mean, myself coming from an MMO where a skill similar to streak without the baked in stun has a 15 or 20 second cooldown and in ESO sorcs can spam this until they run out of magicka and dark deal to keep near infinite sustain, it just feels so easy to kite around and survive with sorc compared to other classes, really feels like easy life.

Take me as an example, I have been playing ESO for maybe less than 3 months, absolutely suck at nocp with every class, decided to jump in the sorc train for a while and level a sorc in BG's and just stomp everyone along the way, get to 50 and still get much better results out of the box playing a sorc than any other class. But sure, sorc needs buffs or fixes, like it's not already the noob friendliest class so imagine it in competent hands. If people think sorcs are weak, go play a few different classes then and you'll be crying to return back to your sorc easy life in no time. Just too much hypocrisy and bias in this thread.

I just really don't like playing sorc or the class fantasy or the ugly looking lightning form, it's a shame I have to gimp myself and play way less competitive classes for the sake of playing a class fantasy I love most instead of choosing the op cheapest way to stay competitive.

iCaliban

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

Tolino wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

And even more Magnecro

So because both classes are in poor shape then sorc should be as well? I dont agree with phoenix most of the time, but in this case he is dead right. No ranged stun makes sorc a non issue unless outnumbered (where another class can stun), if you get killed by a sorc at range these days its pure L2p.

1 button fury heroes are a joke, and if bgs still had any sort of grouping you wouldnt be dealing with them. Competent players farm the hell out of fury bots.

MartiniDaniels

iCaliban wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

Tolino wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

And even more Magnecro

So because both classes are in poor shape then sorc should be as well? I dont agree with phoenix most of the time, but in this case he is dead right. No ranged stun makes sorc a non issue unless outnumbered (where another class can stun), if you get killed by a sorc at range these days its pure L2p.

1 button fury heroes are a joke, and if bgs still had any sort of grouping you wouldnt be dealing with them. Competent players farm the hell out of fury bots.

Still streak is best unblockable stun in the game now and with best range.
I may only repeat one idea about streak, which I like - make streak blockable, but if blocked, set target off-balance. Then in next 7 seconds magsorc will be able to land med-heavy attack for ranged stun, which wouldn't be so easy to block, while in the same time there will be skilled counter-play to streak spam. Now 90% of magsorcs use streak not for combo, but simply on your cc-immunity cooldown to avoid damage and to drain your stamina. In CP it is not a big problem with unchained perk and reduced break free cost, in no-CP though...

As for the request for the ranged unblockable undodgeable stun.. sure, let's add it, let's say to psijic guild skill line. Next day everybody on the server will slot it.

iCaliban

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

Tolino wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

And even more Magnecro

So because both classes are in poor shape then sorc should be as well? I dont agree with phoenix most of the time, but in this case he is dead right. No ranged stun makes sorc a non issue unless outnumbered (where another class can stun), if you get killed by a sorc at range these days its pure L2p.

1 button fury heroes are a joke, and if bgs still had any sort of grouping you wouldnt be dealing with them. Competent players farm the hell out of fury bots.

Still streak is best unblockable stun in the game now and with best range.
I may only repeat one idea about streak, which I like - make streak blockable, but if blocked, set target off-balance. Then in next 7 seconds magsorc will be able to land med-heavy attack for ranged stun, which wouldn't be so easy to block, while in the same time there will be skilled counter-play to streak spam. Now 90% of magsorcs use streak not for combo, but simply on your cc-immunity cooldown to avoid damage and to drain your stamina. In CP it is not a big problem with unchained perk and reduced break free cost, in no-CP though...

As for the request for the ranged unblockable undodgeable stun.. sure, let's add it, let's say to psijic guild skill line. Next day everybody on the server will slot it.

I dont think any sorc player says we should have a unblockable or undodgeable ranged stun. On the contrary it should be both. Maybe tie it to the destro tree, that flame reach skill which no one uses cuz it sucks seems like a viable candidate. Maybe tweak the master destro if its too cheap to spam /sarcasm. Major god damn sarcasm.

All these issues derive from the boneheaded and frankly ignorant decision to nerf destro reach. Streak should not be this overtuned, and shouldnt be the primary stun for the class. As it stands, all it does is promote very unskilled gameplay such as streak stun spam, and fury spam from range. Since killing a good stam player at range with sorc is basically impossible

Tolino

iCaliban wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

Tolino wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

And even more Magnecro

So because both classes are in poor shape then sorc should be as well? I dont agree with phoenix most of the time, but in this case he is dead right. No ranged stun makes sorc a non issue unless outnumbered (where another class can stun), if you get killed by a sorc at range these days its pure L2p.

1 button fury heroes are a joke, and if bgs still had any sort of grouping you wouldnt be dealing with them. Competent players farm the hell out of fury bots.

I didn't say that!
But a Magsorc that complain about bad Stuns...
Magsorc is in a absolut great spot! But Stamsorc needs some love!

- Streak should be blockabel (no offbalance needed) => Streak vs doge and rune cage against block
- matriarch healing is... => Pets should scale with Mag and Spelldmg+the same bas-value like other Burstheal
-/+ Fury need a rework => explosion at 30% health but no 4second precast
- Pets shouldn't be targetable
+ reduce the delay on rune cage
+ reduce the min. traveltime (not just on Magsorc)
+ rework bound armaments. Maybe something similar to Morkuldin instead. (nobody wants a worse grim focus copy...)
+ Daedric Protection without Daedric Summoning skills (maybe reduce to 15% Stam/healthreg)

iCaliban

Tolino wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

Tolino wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I'm curious what magdens can say about lack of reliable stun in magsorcs toolkit.

And even more Magnecro

So because both classes are in poor shape then sorc should be as well? I dont agree with phoenix most of the time, but in this case he is dead right. No ranged stun makes sorc a non issue unless outnumbered (where another class can stun), if you get killed by a sorc at range these days its pure L2p.

1 button fury heroes are a joke, and if bgs still had any sort of grouping you wouldnt be dealing with them. Competent players farm the hell out of fury bots.

I didn't say that!
But a Magsorc that complain about bad Stuns...
Magsorc is in a absolut great spot! But Stamsorc needs some love!

- Streak should be blockabel (no offbalance needed) => Streak vs doge and rune cage against block
- matriarch healing is... => Pets should scale with Mag and Spelldmg+the same bas-value like other Burstheal
-/+ Fury need a rework => explosion at 30% health but no 4second precast
- Pets shouldn't be targetable
+ reduce the delay on rune cage
+ reduce the min. traveltime (not just on Magsorc)
+ rework bound armaments. Maybe something similar to Morkuldin instead. (nobody wants a worse grim focus copy...)
+ Daedric Protection without Daedric Summoning skills (maybe reduce to 15% Stam/healthreg)

Thing about streak is that its a Xv1 tool, not particularly good 1v1, or outnumbered offensively. A true ranged stun is what the class needs, along with a pruning back of things that make it annoying, such as fury spam in bgs and situational pet spam.

Agree about stam sorc. What does it do that a well built stamcro or warden cant? Maybe a bit easier sustain. Maybe.

Qbiken

ZOS can "buff" your precious magsorc when they find a way to not having them being the most oppressive Xv1 class in the game. This patch magsorc is a god damn plague in nocp and there are good reasons why more and more people jumped on the magsorc train this patch.

And magsorc does not need a ranged stun as long as the current streak exists. Remove the stun from streak if you want a ranged stun.

And if the main argument people have to buff magsorc is that they can't kill the FOTM heavy stamcro in a cp duel then I've got news for you:

Most other classes can't do that either.

OBJnoob

I haven’t played magsorc in a while... is rune cage so bad now that nobody uses it or is it just forgotten because streak is so good? I think most people don’t like it because it has a weird delay sometimes but honestly it’s still a very reliable stun. I’m not sure how much more reliable a 28m unblockable stun could be. I guess it could have its timing adjusted to correspond better with frags so that they land at the same time because sorc’s identity is about 100—>0ing somebody from super far away and that is probably what the game intend.... NOOOOO. You can’t make these changes. It will destroy pvp balance.

And at the same time... if sorcs need a tiny little nerf instead of a buff (certainly that is closer to the truth,) can it please NOT be to streak? I feel like if streak (admittedly OP,) gets gutted in any way it’s just going to hurt stamsorcs... as usual.

technohic

OBJnoob wrote: »

I haven’t played magsorc in a while... is rune cage so bad now that nobody uses it or is it just forgotten because streak is so good? I think most people don’t like it because it has a weird delay sometimes but honestly it’s still a very reliable stun. I’m not sure how much more reliable a 28m unblockable stun could be. I guess it could have its timing adjusted to correspond better with frags so that they land at the same time because sorc’s identity is about 100—>0ing somebody from super far away and that is probably what the game intend.... NOOOOO. You can’t make these changes. It will destroy pvp balance.

And at the same time... if sorcs need a tiny little nerf instead of a buff (certainly that is closer to the truth,) can it please NOT be to streak? I feel like if streak (admittedly OP,) gets gutted in any way it’s just going to hurt stamsorcs... as usual.

Good ones use clench for master destro anyway and opt for ball of lightning which is loaded in it's own right; and it helps them stay just out of reach. Bad ones get pressured and just streak when pressured and cheese uncountable, wide and CC to CC masses of players to get away or aid their zerg. I have seen duos where they split the 2 that are pretty good

Rahar

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Yeah, sorcs complaining really be funny mon. I mean, myself coming from an MMO where a skill similar to streak without the baked in stun has a 15 or 20 second cooldown and in ESO sorcs can spam this until they run out of magicka and dark deal to keep near infinite sustain, it just feels so easy to kite around and survive with sorc compared to other classes, really feels like easy life.

Take me as an example, I have been playing ESO for maybe less than 3 months, absolutely suck at nocp with every class, decided to jump in the sorc train for a while and level a sorc in BG's and just stomp everyone along the way, get to 50 and still get much better results out of the box playing a sorc than any other class. But sure, sorc needs buffs or fixes, like it's not already the noob friendliest class so imagine it in competent hands. If people think sorcs are weak, go play a few different classes then and you'll be crying to return back to your sorc easy life in no time. Just too much hypocrisy and bias in this thread.

I just really don't like playing sorc or the class fantasy or the ugly looking lightning form, it's a shame I have to gimp myself and play way less competitive classes for the sake of playing a class fantasy I love most instead of choosing the op cheapest way to stay competitive.

Why would you bother to come to a conclusion about post 50 magsorc gameplay being broken when you yourself even admit that you didn't play one at that level? Your example is embarrassing. Regardless, any class is pretty good out of the box when you're playing ultra low MMR so long as you can press a few buttons and know when to heal. I routinely play magnb and stamnb as well as magsorc and tend to do fine in the lower MMR those characters have because it really doesn't matter what you play at that skill level. We should balance for the higher skill brackets only. That's where it really matters.

OBJnoob wrote: »

I haven’t played magsorc in a while... is rune cage so bad now that nobody uses it or is it just forgotten because streak is so good? I think most people don’t like it because it has a weird delay sometimes but honestly it’s still a very reliable stun. I’m not sure how much more reliable a 28m unblockable stun could be. I guess it could have its timing adjusted to correspond better with frags so that they land at the same time because sorc’s identity is about 100—>0ing somebody from super far away and that is probably what the game intend.... NOOOOO. You can’t make these changes. It will destroy pvp balance.

And at the same time... if sorcs need a tiny little nerf instead of a buff (certainly that is closer to the truth,) can it please NOT be to streak? I feel like if streak (admittedly OP,) gets gutted in any way it’s just going to hurt stamsorcs... as usual.

Rune is really only ever used by idiots, stubborn people, or zerglings. It's bad. Really, really bad. There's more than enough time to react with a dodge every single time the ability is cast.

MartiniDaniels

Maybe ZOS must change the very concept of unblockable stun. Unblockable stun exist to counter block, so it should work only against block then, and if non-blocked provide some debuff/snare/off-balance whatever.
This is not only about streak, it is about any unblockable stun.

I mean I tried to use vampiric stun which nobody uses. It is extremely broken thing. I had occasional 1v1 with stamDK where he withdrew with face expression like "I don't fight with cheese", after I stunned him 2 times in a row from 8 meters when he tried to use dizzy.

So all this stuns fossilize, fear, turn evil, streak and now new vampiric stun as well as previous blockable but instant and undodgeable vampiric drain - all this stuns are cancerous if used not to land combo, but as defensive/attrition tool. And hell, majority now uses it as defensive/attrition tool, not as part of combo.

Atherakhia

MagSorc is probably the strongest spec in the game currently. If it's not the ultimate spec in the game, it is certainly leaps and bounds above every single other mag spec in the game. So while the class may have some issues, they are clearly by design and the Sorc needs a swift kick in the nuts FAR more than it needs any buff whatsoever. The points made in this thread to show some of the weaknesses the class has are intended. No class is supposed to be great at everything. They aren't even supposed to bring everything to the table. Sorc already does and the few weaker options it has are overshadowed by the horrendously overpowered alternatives available.

When they make Streak a stam morph and it costs 8k a cast, we can revisit this thread.

OBJnoob

@technohic I mean yes I agree master destro is good but I also have a few examples in my mind of when it’s also a clunky, poor ranged, easily telegraphed and dodged, cc. But the staff itself is good. And the skill is sorta good. Tbh my play experience is very different than yours and I think your own personal bias is pretty strong on this. Maybe your campaign is plagued by magsorc zergs mine is not. Mine has arguably talented magsorcs running solo and whatever combo they prefer they are pretty effective

https://gameclips.io/OBJ noob/ac7e9b99-aff4-4fe4-91ee-966de2a87fad

The above is a clip that might or might not apply. A friend of mine— good player but missing some cp— getting wrecked as a nightblade roll dodges almost all of his destructive reach spams. My friend is a magden in this clip to be fair, not a magsorc. Then me, on a stamsorc, beating the same nightblade where I think I make good 1v1 usage of streak as an offensive stun. Again IF my friend had been playing a magsorc... I think streak or even rune cage would’ve been super helpful for him.

@rahar I’m not sure what to say. I think rune cage still has some use. And I’m not sure what you mean by roll dodging I mean sure you can break free and roll dodge if you want— that’s a lot of stam use— I don’t mind making you do that every 6 seconds even if I do miss my crystal frag. In fact I’m gonna try to wait until you roll dodged on your own already and then I’m gonna rune cage you. Rune cage isn’t dodgeable. Anyway... me personally I like streak as an offensive cc. Curse, comet, fury, streak, frag... pretty sure that still kills. But if all the “good” sorcs use ball of lightning instead and offensive streak is for zerglings then you still have two other viable options. If you don’t think rune cage is viable even though it has superior range and landability... okay. Better get yourself a master destro then. How many options does one class need? Why do they all have to be amazing?

Lord-Otto

OBJnoob wrote: »

@technohic I mean yes I agree master destro is good but I also have a few examples in my mind of when it’s also a clunky, poor ranged, easily telegraphed and dodged, cc. But the staff itself is good. And the skill is sorta good. Tbh my play experience is very different than yours and I think your own personal bias is pretty strong on this. Maybe your campaign is plagued by magsorc zergs mine is not. Mine has arguably talented magsorcs running solo and whatever combo they prefer they are pretty effective

https://gameclips.io/OBJ noob/ac7e9b99-aff4-4fe4-91ee-966de2a87fad

The above is a clip that might or might not apply. A friend of mine— good player but missing some cp— getting wrecked as a nightblade roll dodges almost all of his destructive reach spams. My friend is a magden in this clip to be fair, not a magsorc. Then me, on a stamsorc, beating the same nightblade where I think I make good 1v1 usage of streak as an offensive stun. Again IF my friend had been playing a magsorc... I think streak or even rune cage would’ve been super helpful for him.

@rahar I’m not sure what to say. I think rune cage still has some use. And I’m not sure what you mean by roll dodging I mean sure you can break free and roll dodge if you want— that’s a lot of stam use— I don’t mind making you do that every 6 seconds even if I do miss my crystal frag. In fact I’m gonna try to wait until you roll dodged on your own already and then I’m gonna rune cage you. Rune cage isn’t dodgeable. Anyway... me personally I like streak as an offensive cc. Curse, comet, fury, streak, frag... pretty sure that still kills. But if all the “good” sorcs use ball of lightning instead and offensive streak is for zerglings then you still have two other viable options. If you don’t think rune cage is viable even though it has superior range and landability... okay. Better get yourself a master destro then. How many options does one class need? Why do they all have to be amazing?

Clench with Master destro is against mag builds with shields. The increased burst helps with the increased HP pool in the form of shields. Mag builds can't dodge every Clench.
Streak is against stam builds. Lower burst, but stam defense is reactive and Streak directly counters it.

Fawn4287

Remove the gap close from streak, make curse dodgeable if magsorc had to run actual mobility it wouldn’t be half as strong

OBJnoob

I agree. And I hear a lot of people say stam toons are inherently overpowered. Which I don’t disagree with. But I hope those same people see how useful streak can be.

OBJnoob

Simultaneous posts. To be clear I do not agree with taking the gap close off of streak it’s called streak for goodness sake. The gap close part of it is what takes actual skill, which is how I use it in my stamsorc. Gut that skill and stamsorc is back in the dog house again. The gap close has nothing to do with it. It isn’t even a gap closer technically.

Mayrael

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Sorcerer has been nerfed constantly over the past years and while some of it was justified it’s just too much. My ideas to fix it are simple and should make the class better while buffing all mag classes simultaneously.

1. Make Conjured Ward not Stack with Annulment but make them both scale with spell damage and max magicka and remove the cap
2. Make bound armaments undodgeable because the skill is so loud that people in other zones are dodging it.
3. The class hasn’t played right since the stun was taken off frags and we all know it. It’s been fun to meteor streak people through block but you’re a class that’s supposed to be about range and now you have to be in melee range to use streak or in range of clench with a master’s inferno.

Let me know what you guys think.

1. In general I like the cap. 2x15k shields were broken. Even if we cahnge it to 1x20k shield its still stupidly OP. There needs to be some boundary to this madness, if we would combine those shields into one, we could increase the cap and shield strength by 50%. In total you lose 50% of shield size but you gain 1 GCD. IMHO that would be nice and balanced buff.

2. Lol Can we make Assasins Will undodgeable to? If you think Bound Armaments sounds is loud, then please listen to Assasins Will - you can hear it very clear even in the middle of 50 man zerg fight, with trebuchets and ballistas shooting everywhere.

3. Frags, Assasins Will and any nonult nuke should never have hard CC bound to it period. You complain about streak? Its basically mass hysteria on steroids. It's a gap opener, deals damage, has bigger range.

Rahar

OBJnoob wrote: »

I’m not sure what to say. I think rune cage still has some use. And I’m not sure what you mean by roll dodging I mean sure you can break free and roll dodge if you want— that’s a lot of stam use— I don’t mind making you do that every 6 seconds even if I do miss my crystal frag. In fact I’m gonna try to wait until you roll dodged on your own already and then I’m gonna rune cage you. Rune cage isn’t dodgeable. Anyway... me personally I like streak as an offensive cc. Curse, comet, fury, streak, frag... pretty sure that still kills. But if all the “good” sorcs use ball of lightning instead and offensive streak is for zerglings then you still have two other viable options. If you don’t think rune cage is viable even though it has superior range and landability... okay. Better get yourself a master destro then. How many options does one class need? Why do they all have to be amazing?

You can roll dodge Rune Cage.

I also like streak. It's one of the more reliable CCs in 1vX and I like how it feels to play. Anyway, I think you're getting a bit carried away here -- magsorc has plenty of stun options, several more than any other class. I just wanted to point out how terrible Rune Cage is, not make a point about magsorc not having good stuns.

Atherakhia wrote: »

MagSorc is probably the strongest spec in the game currently. If it's not the ultimate spec in the game, it is certainly leaps and bounds above every single other mag spec in the game. So while the class may have some issues, they are clearly by design and the Sorc needs a swift kick in the nuts FAR more than it needs any buff whatsoever. The points made in this thread to show some of the weaknesses the class has are intended. No class is supposed to be great at everything. They aren't even supposed to bring everything to the table. Sorc already does and the few weaker options it has are overshadowed by the horrendously overpowered alternatives available.

When they make Streak a stam morph and it costs 8k a cast, we can revisit this thread.

No. Other mag classes need to be buffed up to magsorc levels. You're looking at this completely wrong.

Aeternum113

Rahar wrote: »

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Yeah, sorcs complaining really be funny mon. I mean, myself coming from an MMO where a skill similar to streak without the baked in stun has a 15 or 20 second cooldown and in ESO sorcs can spam this until they run out of magicka and dark deal to keep near infinite sustain, it just feels so easy to kite around and survive with sorc compared to other classes, really feels like easy life.

Take me as an example, I have been playing ESO for maybe less than 3 months, absolutely suck at nocp with every class, decided to jump in the sorc train for a while and level a sorc in BG's and just stomp everyone along the way, get to 50 and still get much better results out of the box playing a sorc than any other class. But sure, sorc needs buffs or fixes, like it's not already the noob friendliest class so imagine it in competent hands. If people think sorcs are weak, go play a few different classes then and you'll be crying to return back to your sorc easy life in no time. Just too much hypocrisy and bias in this thread.

I just really don't like playing sorc or the class fantasy or the ugly looking lightning form, it's a shame I have to gimp myself and play way less competitive classes for the sake of playing a class fantasy I love most instead of choosing the op cheapest way to stay competitive.

Why would you bother to come to a conclusion about post 50 magsorc gameplay being broken when you yourself even admit that you didn't play one at that level? Your example is embarrassing. Regardless, any class is pretty good out of the box when you're playing ultra low MMR so long as you can press a few buttons and know when to heal. I routinely play magnb and stamnb as well as magsorc and tend to do fine in the lower MMR those characters have because it really doesn't matter what you play at that skill level. We should balance for the higher skill brackets only. That's where it really matters.

OBJnoob wrote: »

I haven’t played magsorc in a while... is rune cage so bad now that nobody uses it or is it just forgotten because streak is so good? I think most people don’t like it because it has a weird delay sometimes but honestly it’s still a very reliable stun. I’m not sure how much more reliable a 28m unblockable stun could be. I guess it could have its timing adjusted to correspond better with frags so that they land at the same time because sorc’s identity is about 100—>0ing somebody from super far away and that is probably what the game intend.... NOOOOO. You can’t make these changes. It will destroy pvp balance.

And at the same time... if sorcs need a tiny little nerf instead of a buff (certainly that is closer to the truth,) can it please NOT be to streak? I feel like if streak (admittedly OP,) gets gutted in any way it’s just going to hurt stamsorcs... as usual.

Rune is really only ever used by idiots, stubborn people, or zerglings. It's bad. Really, really bad. There's more than enough time to react with a dodge every single time the ability is cast.

Where did I say I didn't play a sorc at lvl 50? I actually said the contrary. I disagree balance should revolve around a minority of elitist players and so does ZoS.

PhoenixGrey

Metemsycosis wrote: »

Lol sorc still godmode. Who thinks otherwise lol

No ranged stun eh?
What happened to rune prison?
Streak ?
Clench? (Not a class skill true)

We don't you give me a live demonstration of what a proper ranged stun is on your mag sorc? Try and hit me from 28m away ?

PhoenixGrey

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Yeah, sorcs complaining really be funny mon. I mean, myself coming from an MMO where a skill similar to streak without the baked in stun has a 15 or 20 second cooldown and in ESO sorcs can spam this until they run out of magicka and dark deal to keep near infinite sustain, it just feels so easy to kite around and survive with sorc compared to other classes, really feels like easy life.

Take me as an example, I have been playing ESO for maybe less than 3 months, absolutely suck at nocp with every class, decided to jump in the sorc train for a while and level a sorc in BG's and just stomp everyone along the way, get to 50 and still get much better results out of the box playing a sorc than any other class. But sure, sorc needs buffs or fixes, like it's not already the noob friendliest class so imagine it in competent hands. If people think sorcs are weak, go play a few different classes then and you'll be crying to return back to your sorc easy life in no time. Just too much hypocrisy and bias in this thread.

I just really don't like playing sorc or the class fantasy or the ugly looking lightning form, it's a shame I have to gimp myself and play way less competitive classes for the sake of playing a class fantasy I love most instead of choosing the op cheapest way to stay competitive.

Your sorc is pretty much a low MMR fury spammer.

Atleast on PC NA there are only a handful of mag sorcs who actually are competitive.

Icarus42

Sooo this thread turned from fix sorc to nerf sorc thread. If we are going to talk nerf then lets talk about NERCOMANCER 1st. You people are seriously so funny! Keep this thread going so we get nerfs next patch, why dont you learn how to fight a sorc its not hard, GO AFTER OUR STAMINA POOL!!!!!!! Everytime this mob gets together and starts bashing another class Zenimax busts out the nerf hammer and they their swing is indiscriminate people, which means its going to be you next. There is my rant take it or leave it!

Aeternum113

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Yeah, sorcs complaining really be funny mon. I mean, myself coming from an MMO where a skill similar to streak without the baked in stun has a 15 or 20 second cooldown and in ESO sorcs can spam this until they run out of magicka and dark deal to keep near infinite sustain, it just feels so easy to kite around and survive with sorc compared to other classes, really feels like easy life.

Take me as an example, I have been playing ESO for maybe less than 3 months, absolutely suck at nocp with every class, decided to jump in the sorc train for a while and level a sorc in BG's and just stomp everyone along the way, get to 50 and still get much better results out of the box playing a sorc than any other class. But sure, sorc needs buffs or fixes, like it's not already the noob friendliest class so imagine it in competent hands. If people think sorcs are weak, go play a few different classes then and you'll be crying to return back to your sorc easy life in no time. Just too much hypocrisy and bias in this thread.

I just really don't like playing sorc or the class fantasy or the ugly looking lightning form, it's a shame I have to gimp myself and play way less competitive classes for the sake of playing a class fantasy I love most instead of choosing the op cheapest way to stay competitive.

Your sorc is pretty much a low MMR fury spammer.

Atleast on PC NA there are only a handful of mag sorcs who actually are competitive.

Actually spamming Force Pulse and the consequent constant fragment procs and not to mention the amazing curse that deals massive damage 2 times per only one gcd wields much better results than spamming fury on a cluster of 4 players and hope that it lands on the one being focused for the execute. So no, I'm not a fury spammer, there's far more efficient ways and still noob friendly ways to play a sorc than spamming fury. But if you thought I mean sorcs are op and easy to play just from an active ability perspective then I urge you to also read the passives and compare them to how underwhelming passives are in some other classes. I think you're being pretty biased and defensive about this topic but fair enough we all have our opinions. If all what I see in low mmr BG's is an infestation of sorcs making smart use of the class and using spammable + constant fragment procs, I don't know where this fury spammers novel comes from. In a semi comparable note I suppose people could roll other classes and be as oppressive as a sorc from range by say spamming snipe, but then again people have also learned that sorcs have access to superior sustain and are near immortal as they can get out of sticky situations much better than any other class by spamming streak a couple of times to get outside LOS and couple it with a couple dark deals which are luxuries no other classes have. Playing a sorc just feels like driving a really nice high end car, if you don't feel that way well maybe you should try a driving a slower car aka other classes so you can give some more value to the kit devs have given to sorcs, you'll be finding yourself thinking "damn If I was playing sorc I'd not have died under this situation" in BG's plenty of times.

Rahar

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Yeah, sorcs complaining really be funny mon. I mean, myself coming from an MMO where a skill similar to streak without the baked in stun has a 15 or 20 second cooldown and in ESO sorcs can spam this until they run out of magicka and dark deal to keep near infinite sustain, it just feels so easy to kite around and survive with sorc compared to other classes, really feels like easy life.

Take me as an example, I have been playing ESO for maybe less than 3 months, absolutely suck at nocp with every class, decided to jump in the sorc train for a while and level a sorc in BG's and just stomp everyone along the way, get to 50 and still get much better results out of the box playing a sorc than any other class. But sure, sorc needs buffs or fixes, like it's not already the noob friendliest class so imagine it in competent hands. If people think sorcs are weak, go play a few different classes then and you'll be crying to return back to your sorc easy life in no time. Just too much hypocrisy and bias in this thread.

I just really don't like playing sorc or the class fantasy or the ugly looking lightning form, it's a shame I have to gimp myself and play way less competitive classes for the sake of playing a class fantasy I love most instead of choosing the op cheapest way to stay competitive.

Why would you bother to come to a conclusion about post 50 magsorc gameplay being broken when you yourself even admit that you didn't play one at that level? Your example is embarrassing. Regardless, any class is pretty good out of the box when you're playing ultra low MMR so long as you can press a few buttons and know when to heal. I routinely play magnb and stamnb as well as magsorc and tend to do fine in the lower MMR those characters have because it really doesn't matter what you play at that skill level. We should balance for the higher skill brackets only. That's where it really matters.

OBJnoob wrote: »

I haven’t played magsorc in a while... is rune cage so bad now that nobody uses it or is it just forgotten because streak is so good? I think most people don’t like it because it has a weird delay sometimes but honestly it’s still a very reliable stun. I’m not sure how much more reliable a 28m unblockable stun could be. I guess it could have its timing adjusted to correspond better with frags so that they land at the same time because sorc’s identity is about 100—>0ing somebody from super far away and that is probably what the game intend.... NOOOOO. You can’t make these changes. It will destroy pvp balance.

And at the same time... if sorcs need a tiny little nerf instead of a buff (certainly that is closer to the truth,) can it please NOT be to streak? I feel like if streak (admittedly OP,) gets gutted in any way it’s just going to hurt stamsorcs... as usual.

Rune is really only ever used by idiots, stubborn people, or zerglings. It's bad. Really, really bad. There's more than enough time to react with a dodge every single time the ability is cast.

Where did I say I didn't play a sorc at lvl 50? I actually said the contrary. I disagree balance should revolve around a minority of elitist players and so does ZoS.

Here you mentioned most of your experience is sub-50:

Aeternum113 wrote: »

Take me as an example, I have been playing ESO for maybe less than 3 months, absolutely suck at nocp with every class, decided to jump in the sorc train for a while and level a sorc in BG's and just stomp everyone along the way, get to 50 and still get much better results out of the box playing a sorc than any other class.

Also I went on to say that low MMR, even at 50+, is not good grounds to judge what is and isn't overperforming. Anything can do well at that level. I don't want to gatekeep you out of the conversation, because magsorc is definitely a noob stomper and I have no right to say who can and can't post, but where does that have a place in an overall discussion about fixing endgame sorc issues when you admit you're not experienced?