The Perfected False God's nerf has got to be one of the most bizarre changes this patch.

furiouslog · July 2020

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Why is the solution not to make a Perfected version of VO and have it drop only in vet trials?

Because Stam doesn't need sustain. It needs damage. VO isn't meta in any context outside of maybe vma. Though I just slot consuming for trash pack instead.

They did not nerf it because they compared it to VO. That's just the excuse they gave. Really they saw how much it was used and they touched it.

I'm referring to the stated justification for the change, not to any additional point of logic.

Koubo · July 2020

SerLoras wrote: »

This change makes absolutely no sense. The notes say it was done to "to better mirror the power Vicious Ophidian as the perfected version of Quick Serpent."

Here's the thing... Vicious Ophidian IS NOT a perfected set. It drops in Craglon trials on NORMAL! You can get a full set of
perfect trait Vicious Ophidian from normal Craglon trials and never even touch any veteran content!

You have to kill one of the dragons in vSS to have even a chance of getting one Perfected False Gods drop. Even killing the first boss in vSS requires a coordinated group of experienced players, and such group are often very difficult to find. It's takes most people several vSS runs to get a full set of Perfected False Gods. On the other hand, any random group of can clear a normal Craglorn trial.

There is no equivalence. One set is available to just about anyone. The other is locked behind some of the most difficult content in the game!

If you want the sets to match, you should add a perfect version of Vicious Ophidian that only drops in veteran Craglon trials from the bosses. That would be an exciting change that would bring people back to old content! But no... instead you are taking away hard earned gear from devoted players who spent countless hours farming these sets?

Please don't do this... who is this for?

I farmed vHRC for AY and grab a VO set in the same time, i would trade the pFG nerf for a up of VO anytime (especially with NMA nerf)
I'm saad. Even more sad that I have a pFG set on my MagDD...

kojou · July 2020

Not enough people were farming "Roaring Opportunity Lost", so they needed to make False God's worse.

mairwen85 · July 2020

kojou wrote: »

Not enough people were farming "Roaring Opportunity Lost", so they needed to make False God's worse.

But even in this state, PFG is still better than RO.

kojou · July 2020

mairwen85 wrote: »

kojou wrote: »

Not enough people were farming "Roaring Opportunity Lost", so they needed to make False God's worse.

But even in this state, PFG is still better than RO.

True, and I doubt anyone will stop running it because of this change, so the other option is that it looks more consistent on a spreadsheet...

I don't see why they couldn't introduce "Perfected Vicious Serpent" for Hard Modes of the Craglorn trials to make the spreadsheet look better (and give players a reason to run them), but nobody asked me.

CleymenZero · July 2020

Langeston wrote: »

As far as I know, literally no one was complaining about it.

It was kind of an "aspirational set" — if you complete this difficult content (impossible for some) you will get the best magicka DPS sustain set in the game. Now it's not much better (if indeed it is at all better) than a craftable set requiring only 6 traits.

I don't even play PVE much, (I avoid it at all costs, honestly) and I don't have or want this set, so the nerf doesn't affect me in the least. But I have a friend (she mostly does crafting and trading, overland content, with the occasional dungeon — more often than not, normals) who just spent 5 million gold for one vSS run, and was lucky enough to get all the pieces she needed to complete a set of PFG. Did she need it? Hell no — as far as I know, she doesn't even do vet DLC. But she sure was excited to show me her new gear. I don't have the heart to tell her what a waste that 5 mil was.

I know it was only a line of magicka (a line of spell damage on the normal version) but that's not the point — changes like this seem almost hostile. At the very least it shows that ZOS doesn't really care much about it's player base.

But, at least it raised the floor & lowered the ceiling! And that's all that matters, apparently.

As much as I disagree with a lot of your posts, even if I don't always voice it, I agree that this nerf is senseless.

Was it ubiquitous in endgame PvE? Absolutely!

Was it overpowered? Almost but not quite. Other options could do more damage if sustain wasn't an issue which for organized groups it usually isn't supposed to be. So it had this great function of boosting your sustain when you would most need it (non-organized PvE or 4-player content) but could be swapped out to something else that yielded more damage if you were in an organized group. All this, without sacrificing too much damage.

I don't agree with this nerf and would argue that, if you want to normalize sets, would need to buff Vicious Ophidian instead of nerfing Falsely God.

SidraWillowsky · July 2020

Stahlor wrote: »

Well, it always was a sustain set. You could have just race changed to Breton and used a full damage set instead. If we are lucky, they'll overthink these senseless changes anyway.

The thing is that all of my mag DDs are already Breton. Sustain is so bad that most of them need FG ON TOP OF that.

Oakiyo · July 2020

Q3 : Nerf current BiS magicka set
Q4 : Release its replacement

karthrag_inak · July 2020

This "nerf to balance mag set with stam set" baloney is illogical and sets dangerous precedent, yes? What will they do with Mother's Sorrow? Leviathan (stam version) only exists as dungeon set - will MS move to darkshade lol?

Stx · July 2020

I mean, considering this set was used in almost 100% of optimal mag dps setups and also was probably the best solo mag set... is it really that surprising that it got nerfed? It was clearly overloaded.

Relequen got nerfed as well.

ol_BANK_lo · July 2020

I'm pretty sure no one at Zenimax passed math class. I think just bought a dart board, and that's how they decide on changes. Just my opinion. Pefected anything should not be the same as the non perfected version of something else.

And yes, even when no one complains....ZOS finds a way to screw with it.

ol_BANK_lo · July 2020

ol_BANK_lo wrote: »

I'm pretty sure no one at Zenimax passed math class. I think just bought a dart board, and that's how they decide on changes. Just my opinion. Pefected anything should not be the same as the non perfected version of something else.

And yes, even when no one complains....ZOS finds a way to screw with it.

My opinon goes for most of their patch changes.

Kadoin · July 2020

Well , when Archmage got nerfed last patch, you should have known that no set was going to be safe from nerfs.

A set in the game 5 years+ with no changes, besides them fixing a bug that it didn't return mag per its description on resto stave heavy and it gets nerfed. It literally got nerfed the patch after they fixed it working with resto staves!

If a set like that can get nerfed, you better believe there is not set that cannot get nerfed.

Lord-Otto · July 2020

Stx wrote: »

I mean, considering this set was used in almost 100% of optimal mag dps setups and also was probably the best solo mag set... is it really that surprising that it got nerfed? It was clearly overloaded.

Relequen got nerfed as well.

This was already pointed out a year ago to ZOS. As always, they ignored player feedback and are now surprised that people are mad for having their time wasted.
Same goes for the Stranglers and BfB.

MJallday · July 2020

I cannot agree more with this post

Pfgd is an aspirational set. Making it so it’s not worth much more than a crafted is a kick in the teeth and middle finger up to those who have spend days farming it( general consensus amongst game community)

Sure bring the floor up, but not the ceiling down

Another reason why the community is being alienated against right here

WrathOfInnos · July 2020

Stx wrote: »

I mean, considering this set was used in almost 100% of optimal mag dps setups and also was probably the best solo mag set... is it really that surprising that it got nerfed? It was clearly overloaded.

Relequen got nerfed as well.

I disagree. PFGD was always a convenience, that came at a small DPS loss. 5pc PFGD has never been optimal. Just look at all the top DPS on ESOlogs. In Greymoor they all used 4pc FGD (which wasn’t changed) with Thrassian. In Harrowstorm and before, most classes were better off with Siroria in coordinates groups, and Dragonknights were the exception by using 3pc FGD (also unaffected) with the Asylum Staff. The top players won’t be affected by the FGD nerf at all, it just lowers the floor.

jecks33 · July 2020

Stx wrote: »

I mean, considering this set was used in almost 100% of optimal mag dps setups and also was probably the best solo mag set... is it really that surprising that it got nerfed? It was clearly overloaded.

no, it wasn't. People is using this set because of *** sustain and *** conditions of siroria to proc (static fights).

"Relequen got nerfed as well." this set and pfg aren't comparable

Onefrkncrzypope · July 2020

furiouslog wrote: »

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Why is the solution not to make a Perfected version of VO and have it drop only in vet trials?

Because Stam doesn't need sustain. It needs damage. VO isn't meta in any context outside of maybe vma. Though I just slot consuming for trash pack instead.

They did not nerf it because they compared it to VO. That's just the excuse they gave. Really they saw how much it was used and they touched it.

I'm referring to the stated justification for the change, not to any additional point of logic.

The stated justification is just bogus. That's what I'm trying to tell you. VO doesn't matter. They looked at it follow their only number metric and say it was too stat dense. The devs didn't like how strong it was the reduced it. That's it. The vo thing is just to smooth over the nerf.

InqueBlawt · July 2020

Very much agree with this, the VO set isn't hard to get at all vSS requires real work and competency. Feels like a half baked change or there's missing patch notes.

itsfatbass · July 2020

Saubon wrote: »

I'm fine with nerfs, it won't make this set useless. Still I'm quite surprised they are comparing set from later veteran trial (and it drops only from boses) with a set that you can literally farm with 6 or so guildies (except AA).

We've completed nSS and nHRC with FOUR people. 1 tank and 3 dps. LOL

SodanTok · July 2020

VO is 2014/15 version of perfected set for Quick Serpent. Perfected False God is 2018/20 version of perfected set for regular False God. That is the fact and crying about it doesnt change it in any way. Just because content difficulty of completing normal or veteran Craglorn changed greatly over the years doesnt change it either.
If you find perfected False God as deserving reward from doing 'difficulty' content like vSS maybe they should put as reward for vSS HM eh? That would fit the narrative.

Actually no complaint here matters, introducing more and more powerful sets every new trial is one of the stupidest things ZoS did to game balance. Good they are finally addressing it.

WrathOfInnos · July 2020

One thing I haven’t seen anyone mention, is that you can wear Vicious Ophidian and Quick Serpent together and still get all the set bonuses. If you try that with Perfected False Gods and normal False Gods you end up losing a 3pc bonus from redundant Minor Slayer.

SerLoras · July 2020

SodanTok wrote: »

VO is 2014/15 version of perfected set for Quick Serpent. Perfected False God is 2018/20 version of perfected set for regular False God.

That's ridiculous. You and ZOS can keep repeating that, but it's just plain wrong. It's not a perfected version... They just happen to be similar. They both drop on NORMAL. The whole idea of perfected sets was added after Craglorn to incentivize people to farm the harder content. VO doesn't incentivize anyone to do veteran because, again, it drops on NORMAL!

Personally I don't really care about the inconsistency in drop difficulty. Nerfing gear that people spent many many hours getting after the fact is just a slap in the face.

xaraan · July 2020

Yea, they are literally making perfected equal regular Vicious Ophidian, so if you do a reg run of the trials that drop VO or of SS, you get a lesser version of the magicka set and HAVE to do the vet version for the equal version. Change makes no sense.

carlos424 · July 2020

Elwendryll wrote: »

To me, it never made sense that FGD has so many stats. Because, yes, VO is already a "perfected" version. The 5 piece effect already :
-gives weapon damage
-reduces the cost of abilities
-restores stamina on enemy death
-gives major expedition on enemy death

And then, they mirror it for magicka, except they add an extra effect, making this a set with 5 bonuses for the 5th piece bonus...

It's just absurd to mirror an existing stam set and to give it even more stats. VO is nice but not BiS, still my solo set by default to replace Lokke. I had the faint hope they would give perfected versions to old trial sets, like VO and Alkosh, looks like they just decided to nerf that one instead.

And then, it's a matter of perspective I guess, but having perfected gear on regular vet clear makes that set fairly easy to get, compared to vCR perfected sets.

Here’s the thing with false god’s. If it has too many stats, why not take away major expedition? That’s more for stam character anyway, right? No one using false god’s would complain about losing this “stam” bonus. Never really made sense in the first place. Actually, you can get rid of the major expedition and the “restore magicka on enemy death.” That’s nice, but not integral. I would much rather have the max mag bonus. I think everyone could live with that compromise.

carlos424 · July 2020

Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Why is the solution not to make a Perfected version of VO and have it drop only in vet trials?

Because Stam doesn't need sustain. It needs damage. VO isn't meta in any context outside of maybe vma. Though I just slot consuming for trash pack instead.

They did not nerf it because they compared it to VO. That's just the excuse they gave. Really they saw how much it was used and they touched it.

This is true. Anything (skills, sets) that are used alot will get nerfed, for whatever reason. Maybe financial-to promote new sets/content, or just for change sake.

Celestro · July 2020

carlos424 wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

To me, it never made sense that FGD has so many stats. Because, yes, VO is already a "perfected" version. The 5 piece effect already :
-gives weapon damage
-reduces the cost of abilities
-restores stamina on enemy death
-gives major expedition on enemy death

And then, they mirror it for magicka, except they add an extra effect, making this a set with 5 bonuses for the 5th piece bonus...

It's just absurd to mirror an existing stam set and to give it even more stats. VO is nice but not BiS, still my solo set by default to replace Lokke. I had the faint hope they would give perfected versions to old trial sets, like VO and Alkosh, looks like they just decided to nerf that one instead.

And then, it's a matter of perspective I guess, but having perfected gear on regular vet clear makes that set fairly easy to get, compared to vCR perfected sets.

Here’s the thing with false god’s. If it has too many stats, why not take away major expedition? That’s more for stam character anyway, right? No one using false god’s would complain about losing this “stam” bonus. Never really made sense in the first place. Actually, you can get rid of the major expedition and the “restore magicka on enemy death.” That’s nice, but not integral. I would much rather have the max mag bonus. I think everyone could live with that compromise.

This is a bit true as far as Major Expedition goes. I mean, thats what separates Rattlecage from Dreugh King Slayer as far as the 5th piece bonus goes. Inherently though, the identity of the set is a sustain set though so that's a little iffy.

WrathOfInnos · July 2020

Celestro wrote: »

carlos424 wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

To me, it never made sense that FGD has so many stats. Because, yes, VO is already a "perfected" version. The 5 piece effect already :
-gives weapon damage
-reduces the cost of abilities
-restores stamina on enemy death
-gives major expedition on enemy death

And then, they mirror it for magicka, except they add an extra effect, making this a set with 5 bonuses for the 5th piece bonus...

It's just absurd to mirror an existing stam set and to give it even more stats. VO is nice but not BiS, still my solo set by default to replace Lokke. I had the faint hope they would give perfected versions to old trial sets, like VO and Alkosh, looks like they just decided to nerf that one instead.

And then, it's a matter of perspective I guess, but having perfected gear on regular vet clear makes that set fairly easy to get, compared to vCR perfected sets.

Here’s the thing with false god’s. If it has too many stats, why not take away major expedition? That’s more for stam character anyway, right? No one using false god’s would complain about losing this “stam” bonus. Never really made sense in the first place. Actually, you can get rid of the major expedition and the “restore magicka on enemy death.” That’s nice, but not integral. I would much rather have the max mag bonus. I think everyone could live with that compromise.

This is a bit true as far as Major Expedition goes. I mean, thats what separates Rattlecage from Dreugh King Slayer as far as the 5th piece bonus goes. Inherently though, the identity of the set is a sustain set though so that's a little iffy.

Hopefully Dreugh King Slayer gets additional stats. It would be hard to argue that 8s of Expedition after a kill is anywhere near as powerful as the 171 Weapon/Spell Damage now on Rattlecage, Toothrow and Treasure Hunter.

Tannus15 · July 2020

Because it was suuuper strong.

Compare live pFG with live pSiroria.

Until you have 5 stacks pFG does more dps.
Read that again and think about how OP FG is as the "sustain" set. You need 6+ stacks of siroria to start doing more dps, and if you lose them you should have just run FG.

Now on PTS siroria and false god have the same amount of stats. Getting any stacks at all means siroria will do more dps than FG.

FG is the sustain set from trials.
Siroria is the pure dps set from trials
Moondancer is half and half.
Master Arch is the group dps buff set
Infal is the bad dps set.
I have no idea what Roaring Opportunist is meant to be.

Playboy_Shrek · July 2020

you mean having 3, 5 item bonuses is okay? its way too much.

tho they really need to go back and update old trial sets and the old trials in general, craglorn ones needs big updates