Increase Bank Space past 480

idk · July 2020

apri wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. The suggestion that account-wide loadouts of gear would reduce server load is conjecture without seeing how Zos has the database setup and the design of logic. This would also fall into an armory which is very similar to the furnishings bag.
2. Weather gear drops as blueprints or actual gear each item is a unique item and as such adds to the size of the query.
3. The items we cannot stack are un-stackable because there is wear and tear the server needs to track for every single item.

1. This suggestion is merely a quality of life suggestion. It will probably have minor if any effect on performance because it's such an insignificant change in the grand scheme of things. You could compare my idea probably best to the outfit system. The only change would be that the same loadout would be available to all your toons. Imagine you would define not an outfit but a setup of weapons, equipped sets etc. and have it being available for each toon as easy as simply assigning it to them.

A loadout in this sense could be a special loadout box in your home you put items in. In your individual toons you might have a button "use loadout" and you would automatically equip it. Wear and tear would be the same like if you unequip and store it in a box everytime you leave the game. When you pick up items from boxes on different toons, wear and tear carries over like it has been the last time of usage. I don't see much trouble here.

The loadout items could be stored in such special boxes to ease the implementation. I could think of other more intuitive methods but they would certainly require more work.

2. Each single drop in the game is logged. Having an unlock system via blueprints has a real potential to reduce server load since unlocks are completed eventually while actual drops never end.

3. Wear and tear is of no relevance for food, potions, ingredients, materials, tranmutation containers to name a few and even for sieges that were not used yet. Such items could potentially be stacked without limit, like the crafting bag is capable of. It's just a number in the inventory after all.

1. Again, we really do not know what kind of impact the first point would have as the game would have to track other information across characters with that idea which would be work for the server.
2. Blueprint or an actual piece of gear that it still drops the server would have to log so it would not change anything with the load on the service. The server could care less what the loot was, it just sees it as an item.
3. True, wear and tear has no relevance on food, positions, and materials but that is wholly irrelevant as they already stack. Geodes do not stack for a reason and Zos seems pretty intent on keeping it that way. More importantly, the server load is more based off how many unique items are in the bag vs the actual total number of items so this entire point would provide no benefit.

apri · July 2020

My suggestions are not focus on performance in first place, they are quality of life suggestions. If the inventory management creates that much load as you suggest it does (despite ZOS adding more inventory slots with inventory pets regardless), it needs an overhaul.

However, the quality of life improvements are in need, as well. Each added set to the game increases the urgency towards it.

ValkynSketha · July 2020

How about armour/weapons/jewelry set storage collection, with achievements tied to collecting them.

Galwylin · July 2020

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

240...

480 is with ESO+... And it is one big paradox, since with ESO+ you get a craft bag, so bank space almost does not matter.

Oh it matters. I have gotten to where I keep at least a full set of everything I can because I never know when something I have will be blasted to uselessness and I firmly dislike grinding gear. Even if the traits or color need changed I feel more comfortable keeping it all. That I can. Would definitely keep more.

Plus all the daily login reward stuff...

Mik195 · July 2020

At a minimum, I'd like to see all the fragments move to fragments. I've got 4/7 of a guar, and 3/7 of some psjic thing, and parts of a robe, dwener thing, and a couple more. I don't want to spend all my play time farming random fragments that appear or buying the missing ones), but really would like them to stop taking up inventory space.

kargen27 · July 2020

apri wrote: »

My suggestions are not focus on performance in first place, they are quality of life suggestions. If the inventory management creates that much load as you suggest it does (despite ZOS adding more inventory slots with inventory pets regardless), it needs an overhaul.

However, the quality of life improvements are in need, as well. Each added set to the game increases the urgency towards it.

Performance is a quality of life issue. One that affects all players whether they horde gear or not. The pets are a fairly minimal increase in inventory space. If we were given the space without the pet nobody would have been excited and most would claim the upgrade almost worthless compared to what they need/want.

apri · July 2020

kargen27 wrote: »

Performance is a quality of life issue. One that affects all players whether they horde gear or not. The pets are a fairly minimal increase in inventory space. If we were given the space without the pet nobody would have been excited and most would claim the upgrade almost worthless compared to what they need/want.

It is but let's not derail the topic. I'm not saying performance is not important, in the contrary. But if inventories affect performance in such a critical way as stated here (idk if true or not), should it not be a priority to improve the inventory system on a fundamental level instead of adding more inventories to players? So if it's true and inventories have a bad impact on performance, in light of pro-performance changes that are ongoing adding inventory pets is a rather counterproductive move, regardless of the scale.

However, what if improving performance and reducing the pain of inventory management for the players could go along? I'm pretty sure there's ways to achieve that and I gave a couple of suggestions that are NOT based on an increase of inventory slots. It would certainly help the players and possibly help with performance if done right or if the inventory system would be improved along the way. It would also reduce the need to have crazy big inventories but this could become relevant on a business level.

My worry is however - given that I follow your performance concerns - that our suggestions are irrelevant in the end because the artificially created inventory shortage is a business model. And selling solutions for the self-created problem is probably more relevant than end user's experience which includes a) quality of life (easy access and easy storing as much relevant items as possible or even as basic things like having fun in the game) and b) even performance. So if your performance argument is true (which I don't know), then this proves that $ stands above both quality of life AND performance. I'd happily be proven wrong on this one.

DaveMoeDee · July 2020

Galwylin wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

240...

480 is with ESO+... And it is one big paradox, since with ESO+ you get a craft bag, so bank space almost does not matter.

Oh it matters. I have gotten to where I keep at least a full set of everything I can because I never know when something I have will be blasted to uselessness and I firmly dislike grinding gear. Even if the traits or color need changed I feel more comfortable keeping it all. That I can. Would definitely keep more.

Plus all the daily login reward stuff...

Yeah. It is horrible when I want a set I deconned. Unlikely I ever grind it, and getting it through normal play takes forever.

Taleof2Cities · July 2020

apri wrote: »

My worry is however - given that I follow your performance concerns - that our suggestions are irrelevant in the end because the artificially created inventory shortage is a business model.

Huh?

Inventory shortages are created by players ... by hoarding items they don't need.

Fully maxed inventory on an account is nearly 3,000 inventory slots (without the crafting bag).

That's plenty of space.

idk · July 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

apri wrote: »

My worry is however - given that I follow your performance concerns - that our suggestions are irrelevant in the end because the artificially created inventory shortage is a business model.

Huh?

Inventory shortages are created by players ... by hoarding items they don't need.

Fully maxed inventory on an account is nearly 3,000 inventory slots (without the crafting bag).

That's plenty of space.

This is very true.

When Zos added the crafting bag a lot of space was freed up on a mule character. That space was quickly filled. When Zos doubled bank space for ESO+ as well as the chests they added to the game I quickly filled all that space. I realized most of what I hoarded I had never used and started managing my inventory to prevent that pointless stockpiling of gear which made dealing with our inventory much easier.

kargen27 · July 2020

"However, what if improving performance and reducing the pain of inventory management for the players could go along? I'm pretty sure there's ways to achieve that and I gave a couple of suggestions that are NOT based on an increase of inventory slots."
Your first suggestion doesn't help players with an inventory shortage. It would only be a way to quickly get gear from one character to another. Yeah that would be a good thing but I'm guessing there is no structure in the game to allow that. Meaning basically a whole new system of inventory management and tracking would have to be introduced. The server would need to know what all your characters are wearing as gear pretty much all of the time. Tracking more items means taking more resources to do so.
Number two is simply swapping one item for another. The game still has to track it. I suppose if you are using identical daggers it might free up one spot. Then again to actually use those daggers you would need to go craft them. To me this adds an unnecessary step to the game and doesn't provide any real benefit. I'm also assuming the blueprints would still take a slot in the inventory so no help there.

I do agree it would be nice to be able to stack unused siege equipment. I think that is something they might be able to do? Transmutation doesn't stack because they are a compromise of sorts. ZoS doesn't want players to be able to just transmute a full set of equipment basically on a whim. We get to transmute items to lower the grind of looking for a specific trait. MMOs need people repeating content though and to that end that is why transmutation containers do not stack.

There would be no reason to have the crafiting bag if materials and ingredients could stack to infinite numbers outside the bag. The bag is the incentive many have for continuing to get ESO+ and it might not be a good idea long term to remove that incentive.
Foods and potions work kind of like you want armor to work except no blueprint. You don't need multiple stacks of food and potions because you can make more at any time.

apri · July 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Inventory shortages are created by players ... by hoarding items they don't need.

Fully maxed inventory on an account is nearly 3,000 inventory slots (without the crafting bag).

That's plenty of space.

Inventory shortages are in games like this for a pretty obvious reason. If you don't struggle, that's ok. You found a thread that's not about your needs, that's fine. I made suggestions that would help to actually reduce the need for inventory for each player. Those who don't struggle and those who do. That's a more constructive approach than to say all is fine when obviously it's not.

kargen27 wrote: »

Your first suggestion doesn't help players with an inventory shortage. It would only be a way to quickly get gear from one character to another.

It could help in the way that you don't need to farm multiple identical sets to have them ready to slot if you are tired of the unequip-store-unpile-re-equip minigame.

Instead of multiple sets all you need is one for each role you play, like a base DPS setup for magicka and another base setup for stamina, for tanking, healing, PVP or solo overland content. It is actually surprising how many players feel the urge to fill their inventories with copies of what they have already just so they do not have to switch stuff all the time and waste time with toon switching and item relocations. Just the loading times that go along with each toon switch pile up incredibly. It's a waste of our time that would be better spent in actually playing the game.

It would also help with certain grinds a lot of players regularly do, for example:

- Run PVP on different toons but same setups to effectively grind PVP rewards
- Run VMA with different toons but same setups
- Run trials on different toons but same setups for leaderboard rewards, scores or achievements
- Run battlegrounds... I think this concept became evident by now.

Yeah that would be a good thing but I'm guessing there is no structure in the game to allow that. Meaning basically a whole new system of inventory management and tracking would have to be introduced. The server would need to know what all your characters are wearing as gear pretty much all of the time. Tracking more items means taking more resources to do so.

And how much does that change from what we have in place now? The game needs to know what is slotted already. It's probably a text entry in a log with a pointer to a toon. There is not much difference if said pointer could be used for loadouts.

Number two is simply swapping one item for another. The game still has to track it. I suppose if you are using identical daggers it might free up one spot. Then again to actually use those daggers you would need to go craft them. To me this adds an unnecessary step to the game and doesn't provide any real benefit. I'm also assuming the blueprints would still take a slot in the inventory so no help there.

Let me try to explain the blueprint idea a bit better. Let's assume you go to Sunspire and farm the False God set. My idea of the blueprints is that you do not get say a belt drop that's ready to use. Instead the blueprint for the belt would drop in a particular trait. For example you get the blueprint for a belt in divines. You could read and learn this blueprint so it would be added in your crafting library. From that point on you could craft this item if you really want it. Ideally you would not get redundant blueprint drops again so there is no need to log those anymore. Instead different traits would drop as additional blueprints until you completed the set with all traits and possibly unlocked an achievement for doing so. Instead of redundant blueprints you could get drops with material for sale or to dismantle. So material that will be in your inventory only for a short time and is not supposed to be a keeper.

Like this loot grind would be closer to the motif books and styles we collect. We pick them up and use them whenever we actually NEED them. We don't fill our inventories with the styles which is a smart idea. And we need another smart idea for the increasing number of sets in the game, as well.

I see a couple of benefits in this blueprint suggestion:

1. You do not need to hold on to set pieces you do not need atm. You know you can craft it later if it ever becomes useful.
2. This would free room in the inventory for the loot you get along your adventures with random items you sell or dismantle later on primarily, like it is probably intended to be. No need for excessive "mule" storage.
3. Achievements for picking up complete sets of blueprints could give players an incentive to play content more. Achievement rewards could make this even more appealing (titles or cosmetics, for example).
4. It would make crafting more relevant and give you the satisfaction to actually "make" your sets. And not to just pick them up.
5. It would tremendously increase the relevance of jewelry crafting if you cannot easily pickup gold jewelry anymore (this would probably be a controversial aspect of this idea that might need fine-tuning of some kind, maybe with additional golden jewelry mats dropping from vet content completions).

I do agree it would be nice to be able to stack unused siege equipment. I think that is something they might be able to do? Transmutation doesn't stack because they are a compromise of sorts. ZoS doesn't want players to be able to just transmute a full set of equipment basically on a whim. We get to transmute items to lower the grind of looking for a specific trait. MMOs need people repeating content though and to that end that is why transmutation containers do not stack.

As you see, the blueprint idea would basically follow your thought creating incentive to play the content. The way the transmutation containers are treated atm is executed in a... let's say lackluster way. I see the reasoning for it and I'm aware that some kind of limitation might be in need but that goal might be achieved more elegantly in another way eventually.

Foods and potions work kind of like you want armor to work except no blueprint. You don't need multiple stacks of food and potions because you can make more at any time.

Yes it's been an example tho. While there is no need to have higher stacks for food or pots for the reason you gave there's also no reason to prohibit it basically for the same argument. It would just give players more flexibility who, for example, burn through PVP potions a lot but don't have the desire to return to the base to recraft their pots more often than need be. Flexibility, quality of life, that's aspects ESO should focus on some more (on top of performance obviously).

kargen27 · July 2020

"Let me try to explain the blueprint idea a bit better. Let's assume you go to Sunspire and farm the False God set. My idea of the blueprints is that you do not get say a belt drop that's ready to use. Instead the blueprint for the belt would drop in a particular trait. For example you get the blueprint for a belt in divines. You could read and learn this blueprint so it would be added in your crafting library. From that point on you could craft this item if you really want it."

MMOs need players repeating content to survive long term. If the idea of blueprints were put in place one blueprint would allow one piece of equipment and you would need a 2nd blueprint to make that item again. It would be done this way to entice players to repeat content. The idea that we need to repeat content is why items are bound and drop in specific traits. Being able to trade with group, have items account bound instead of character bound and being able to change traits is a compromise that makes getting the gear you want not so much a grind it once was while still requiring repeating content.

apri · July 2020

The blueprint idea makes the content even more worth to be repeated for two reasons. First you want to grind all the traits if you are a collector to unlock an achievement (like we have it for style pages). That's something you need to do for all the sets and eventually for multiple characters so that should keep you quite busy for a while.

Secondly as I mentioned before you need to grind other items to actually make the set piece, based on the obtained blueprint. Give your imagination a chance to follow this concept a bit further, then you may come up with ideas to add more details to the concept. One example: Drop items could be added that are needed as crafting material. It could be zone-based materials for any set in said zone (if you want to make the crafting easier) or it could be set-based materials that only drop in the activity you did pickup the blueprint from. Depending on how easy or hard you make this drop, you have your urge for repetition.

However, I would not suggest to go too crazy with it. A lot of players well-know what they want to do in this game and actually hate the concept to be pushed into activities they dislike just for the sake of grinding what they need for their preferred activity. After all, there is a limited playtime for most people and they rather want it spent for something they enjoy. But this is a totally different topic of its own.

redgreensunset · July 2020

apri wrote: »

[snip]

It would also help with certain grinds a lot of players regularly do, for example:

- Run PVP on different toons but same setups to effectively grind PVP rewards
- Run VMA with different toons but same setups
- Run trials on different toons but same setups for leaderboard rewards, scores or achievements
- Run battlegrounds... I think this concept became evident by now.
[snip]

Okay but there went the whole purpose of alts. What's even the idea of having alts if all you do is play them all in the exact same way?

Jeremy · July 2020

AuraStorm43 wrote: »

As ESO continues to grow and add more sets, the storage space we have has been stuck at 480 for + members for quite some time

I propose they increase it to 600, and also allow siege to stack

I've been asking for this for years now, so you're not alone.

They should increase the bank size at least some with every new Chapter, that way players have more capacity to hold the new items they add to the game.

Athyrium93 · July 2020

Honestly I could handle the inventory issues if we just had a "backpack" or something similar that could hold a couple full gear sets, and kept them ordered into individual outfits. So the load out for it looked like the gear selector or something.

Then healers and tanks could carry at least some of the sets they are expected to have (and dps would have extra options for gear) without having to use an add-on or take five minutes digging though your bag to find each piece, and it would keep it out of your regular bag freeing up spaces for other things.

ZOS could sell it for 1500 crowns for each additional gear load out, capped at a total of 5 or something like that.

It couldn't possibly strain the servers as much as house pathing and all their pretty lights gear sets do.....

apri · July 2020

redgreensunset wrote: »

Okay but there went the whole purpose of alts. What's even the idea of having alts if all you do is play them all in the exact same way?

Short answer is probably leaderboards.

Long answer in terms of different alts using the same setups (in terms of gear, not necessarily skills): That's not a question to ask me. It's the way metas are for years now. But even if we had more of a viable set variety, maybe people would like to "clone" one of their favorite toons for certain purposes like multiple weekly leaderboard runs. Either way, loadouts are in need. They are a consequence of the metas we have.

LeeNordTank · July 2020

Yes please

Oreyn_Bearclaw · July 2020

Siege stacking would be awesome. More bank space, of course, who doesnt want that.

I just did one of my biggest spring cleaning projects to date and still have over 3000 items (stacked when possible) outside my crafting bag. I was over 4,000 when I started (max storage in game is around 4500 or so I believe).

My thoughts/wishes for a new ESO+ Feature. Give us a gold gear bag, like the crafting bag. Can be accessed from all toons. Once you make something gold quality (or it drops in gold quality) and you bind it, it can go in the bag. Would probably have some issues to work out, but it would save me like 1000 storage slots. haha.

zaria · July 2020

ValkynSketha wrote: »

How about armour/weapons/jewelry set storage collection, with achievements tied to collecting them.

A bit hard because of traits, you can also change enchants and gold out.

Now more storage chests in houses would help a lot for deep storage. As this will only be loaded in house instances it will have negligible server performance hit. Your house is created as an new instance and house items including stuff in the chests are loaded from database.
House chests are prefect for set items you don't want to use just yet but also don't want to throw away.

Dusk_Coven · July 2020

Increasing stacking limits as a Crown Store item could alleviate some inventory issues. Many games allow higher stacking limits. TERA also has the interesting idea of letting you stack much, much, higher in the bank than in toon inventory.

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

(1)
A stack size multiplier. Account-wide purchase that increases the size of ALL types of stacks you can have in inventory.
For example, food stacks to 100 units right now. A single purchase of a Stack Size Multiplier (+1x) would change that maximum stack to (100 x (1+1)) = 200.
Unlimited purchase amount.
Since people actually have literally thousands if not tens of thousands of a material, the ESO+ Crafting Bag is definitely not obsolete.
What this product does is help people go on a lighter play schedule of maybe just logging in for daily rewards and Hirelings while they are on vacation, for example. They can subscribe when they are back to shove everything into the Crafting Bag.

adilazimdegilx · July 2020

About topic, I support on this suggestion because some people need and it has no harms to people that wont use it.

However, I never really have problem with space. And I could even manage without eso+ while not giving up crafting. I just dont hoard stuff that I can get with low effort or cheap.
Sets can be farmed when I actually want to use them so no keeping random sets especially armors. I still keep some dungeon weapons, Inferno Staves, Axe/Daggers/TwoHanders that either was good before or has a potential and can be front or backbarred but that comes from experience. I also keep Trial gears since they are usually good in some way. And I keep monster helms in different weights with good traits.
Trial sets and meta are kept in Housing coffers based on their usage (DPS,Tank,Healer).
Monster Helms are kept in one character inventory.
Low level training gear, some dungeons sets and gear I used used/tested before kept in another character inventory.
PvP items and PvP gears usually stays on my PvP characters. You never really have inventory problems while PvPing anyway.

And crafting (without ESO+), I keep crafting mats in bank since I want to access them in stations. A good trick is just not giving a crap about Provisioning, just keep food mats that you use for yourself, or just dont keep any. Buying them is quicker and not really expensive in any sort. You can do 1 writ less. For enchanting, dont keep low level potency, just sell them. They wont be dropping once you levelled up anyway. You can even just stack them in craft bag when you have Eso+ (either when you bought or in free trial) and use it from there (you can manage this with Provisioning too if you still care). I used it as like this for very long time before. Just keep the expensive ones.

As for managing drops on several character, I just decon them on that character and put mats to bank, that helps with their crafting level too. If you want better decon chance you can give skill points to extraction skills later.

As for bank management, It is important to not keep over 200 stacks of one item on banks. If you are getting more than 200, that means you dont really need it that much. Either sell or craft & sell them. This usually returns a good chunk of gold too. So it's win-win. Whenever I hit max slots on bank I do this. And I dont put gear in bank other than 1 or 2 set that I constantly change between chars. I also sometimes put high quality jewelry so I can decon them with my main crafting char so I always have like 20 slots open in bank for that (Decon mats are quite profitable on jewelry)

Oh and housing, just put the furnisings to your home. Still have more? Put in another house. Rinse repeat. It's okey if the house look cramped, you are a hoarder, of course it will look like that. That is what some people do in real life and it's a problem there too. You can sell & rebuy/craft most of those. Just let them go.

BXR_Lonestar · July 2020

I agree with this, but in the interim, I've been making use of the coffer chests that you can get from the master writ dude (or with crowns). They're helpful in storing stuff you've golded, monster sets, or master writs that you will do eventually.

Also, I think we need a better solution for housing items/furniture. As it stands right now, the best solution is to get a separate house with a high item count so you can just lay items down and "store" them that way rather than store them in a singular database. Perhaps a good way to address the issue is make it so you can learn the blueprint to make those items by deconstructing them at a table. You lose the item, but you can make a new one down the road if you wish to do so.

PizzaCat82 · July 2020

Woudln't recommend creating 9 accounts when they do the free trial. Easy way to get your guild deleted.

DaveMoeDee · July 2020

If you have a lot of game time to burn, sure, you can waste hours on managing inventory and grinding gear you previously deconned or vendored, but now need.

Ignoring the lack of time problem, personally, I can handle the tedious tasks in-game. The thing I detest is the time it takes to switch alts. Even worse, the time lost when you go to the wrong one.

I do think that much unbound gear is best sold if not being used since you can just buy it when you need it. If you eventually end up buying 10% of the pieces you sell, you probably made a significant profit. Even if you buy for 3x what you sold it for, all the sets you sold and never end up buying will more than cover that difference.

The storing of furnishings in another house probably doesn't work well when people are trying to furnish an empty house.

Feric51 · July 2020

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

I agree with this, but in the interim, I've been making use of the coffer chests that you can get from the master writ dude (or with crowns). They're helpful in storing stuff you've golded, monster sets, or master writs that you will do eventually.

Add this to the list of things I wish stacked. I realize there is almost a limitless pool of the material crafting master writs with different pieces/set/trait/style, but when it comes to enchanting, provisioning, and especially alchemy, there is a relatively small pool of possibilities. Not only would this alleviate some storage woes when people stockpile the master writs, but it would also let you know exactly how many glyphs/food/potions to pre-craft** if you're turning them in en masse.

** Many of the alchemy master writs have the same name (ex 'ravage health') but varying 2nd and 3rd effects so the icon showing how many "Essence of Ravage Health" master writs are in your bank doesn't reflect how many actually require the same ingredients. Stacking identical master writs would solve this issue.

Devonax · May 2023

I know this is an old post.. but we still need upgrades to a lot of things and it's getting really annoying now.

They keep adding motifs, armor sets, Furnishing and mythical items but they are not increasing:
1. Chests
2. Bank slots
3. Inventory slots
4. Housing furnishing slots.

We need more of these.. Its time..
Maybe also update the outdated textures of the old armor to be on par with the newer looking armor styles.

Lastly, and this is more personal.. please stop adding in new huge houses that almost no one is buying and add more medium size homes that can actually be somewhat fully furnished.

I will keep supporting zenimax with ESO+ and buying crates and whatnot, but zenimax need to start supporting their players too..

ADarklore · May 2023

Devonax wrote: »

I know this is an old post.. but we still need upgrades to a lot of things and it's getting really annoying now.

They keep adding motifs, armor sets, Furnishing and mythical items but they are not increasing:
1. Chests
2. Bank slots
3. Inventory slots
4. Housing furnishing slots.

We need more of these.. Its time..
Maybe also update the outdated textures of the old armor to be on par with the newer looking armor styles.

Lastly, and this is more personal.. please stop adding in new huge houses that almost no one is buying and add more medium size homes that can actually be somewhat fully furnished.

I will keep supporting zenimax with ESO+ and buying crates and whatnot, but zenimax need to start supporting their players too..

If you know it's an old post, then why necro it? ZOS will simply close this and state that you should create a new thread to continue the conversation.

Drammanoth · May 2023

ZOS knows better than to let us have more. As such, it will never happen. If there is no money behind it, it won't.