Soundinfinite wrote: »

@Sheuib

I'm sorry but @Mister_DMC is correct, perhaps not in the sour "to sell copies" comment. But everything else. Thrassian was broken from the get go...so broken that last PTS CYCLE it was complained and warned about...they added shield nerfing to it and reworked it a bit but basically said this is what we are going with.

Thrassian currently gives 150 per stack of power...that is MORE than a trait of a set.
Two stacks and you are at the same raw power as Julianos 5th Trait (5th TRAIT!!!)
3 stacks and you have beat out ALL 5 piece sets in the game and ALL Monster Set Damage save for Siroria, New Moon Acolyte, and Melog Kena.
4 Stacks you are equal to these sets
5 stacks or more and you have beaten EVERY SINGLE SET IN THE GAME in raw power for Magicka by equipping 1 piece of armor.

And you still have 15 more stacks to go.

Having 3000 spell damage from 1-peice of Armor is absolutely awful balancing no matter what the drawback may be.

And at 5 stacks, or even 6, (Numbers that AGAIN beat every 5-piece set in the game) you are only taking 10%-12% more damage which is basically mitigated by slotting Minor Protection (Temporal Guard Psijic Skill Ultimate). Meaning you are not taking NEARLY the loss you are claiming balances it.

It is not just the full 20 stacks and its 40% damage taken that is the problem.....t

It is having stacks in the low end and how much power you gain and how you can mitigate its damage off-set.

2 things were Clearly Broken at the end of the last PTS cycle and everyone new it, Blood 4 Blood, and Thrassians...ZOS was told by the community and they pushed both to live as is and it created a very UNBALANCED game with an EXTREME power buff greater than any patch in the 4 years Ive been in the game, and completely shut out stamina from PVE (which was already only a cracked door to begin with.) And now they are nerfing both things hard this patch.

Sorry...it has to go...the change is MORE than needed...

And to your TANK comment...in PVP TANKs are not supposed to be taken down by 1 player alone...there would be no point in creating a tank for PVP if that is the case. And anything that makes a single player strong enough on their own to take down a fully designed PVP tank with a player who knows how to run it, is broken as all get out. The real problem is when tanks that can survive 5+ players can also demolish and kill those players...that is broken...

And Zos has actually been trying to fix that problem.

ThePedge wrote: »

Hiding behind another 20 people, no counter play whatsoever.



They aren't in danger of dying, ever. And are oppressively strong.

In PvE content is a joke. Magicka already top dog and has better self-heals, but now you've got the damage of at least an extra person. 3dd groups feel like 5dds.
Just look at esologs

Mister_DMC wrote: »

The gloves were the most poorly thought out, worst addition to the game yet. It made PvE even more trivial and PvP it rewarded you for playing a Magicka ranged class at the back of a zerg. 3k spell damage permanently!? Who thought that was balanced, it was there solely to sell copies of greymoor.

CleymenZero wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

I am saying this from a PVP perspective.

The tank meta is still very much alive in PVP. The current live version of the gloves can create a build that can kill any tank build in PVP. However, that character is the true glass cannon and requires protection from someone built like the very thing these are meant to kill. Any changes to this will basically make them useless in PVP.

I am against them adding weapon damage because stam builds already overpower magicka builds in PVP as it is. The band of brutality draw back is basically a joke in PVP. And, no it really isn't useful for a light armor build since you would basically negate one of the light armor passives.

A stack cooldown you would think would be an obvious set killer but they put it in. Many people have already stated the problems getting 20 kills in PVE but just to be clear keeping max stacks in PVP will be impossible. You would be lucky to get more than 5 stacks.

The 150 spell damage needs to not change because tanks exist. No matter what ZOS does the majority of high level PVP players in Cyrodiil build tanks. The ball groups are mostly tanks. The tower humpers are tanks. The rock jumpers are tanks. And, the obvious guy in the middle of the battlefield not dieing is a tank. You can kill any one of these guys with a high penetration thrassian build. But, like I said at the beginning he can't do it alone. It creates team play requirements.

I think the risk reward trade offs are fine just the way they are. You can't die or hide or you lose all your power. The other side quickly learns that you are the damage and an easy kill so they start looking for you.

I know my post alone isn't going to stop this. Everyone needs to stop asking for nerfs to this set. Stop saying they are overpowered. Heck this is the only thing that has truly made my character more powerful in 2 years. We haven't had character progression in so long I don't even remember the last time my character got more powerful.

Please leave the gloves as is.

Well... Here is a bit of context:

First, it greatly disadvantaged stamina PvE and somewhat PvP (you'd have to make a bow build, stay the heck away and never stealth if it already did add the weapon damage...). With B4B being a thing which made magicka hit as hard as stamina in a lot of cases, Thrassian was just a nail in the coffin.

Second, it's hard to weigh in on 40% more damage intake, less healing and less shields for 3k weapon damage before buffs (easily gets to 3.9k if you are or are near a magplar) VS 10% more damage from fire (fire damage is omnipresent in PvE) and fighters guild abilities (few enemies use these types of abilities but it's still used in PvP in spite of the cast time) for 372 spell damage before buffs.

Based on that mindset, what if you scaled the new set (Talfyg's Treachury) to current Thrassian to get an idea of how messed up it could be? I can think of 2 ways to do that. You either scale the new set based on the total spell damage with its con or scale it based on the supplemental spell damage it provides VS another set that doesn't have the con.

An example for current sets is: do you weight NMA's 481 spell damage vs the 5% cost increase or do you weight its value based on the additional 181 spell damage it provides VS Ancient Dragon guard or Julianos that doesn't have that cost increase?

The better way to scale would be based on the additional spell damage provided vs other options.

Look at BSW which provides an average of 326 spell damage vs Talfyg's : is the extra 46 spell damage worth the extra 10% fire damage intake? ESPECIALLY when you consider that you can make the most out of BSW by waiting for next proc before dropping next ulti at which point your ulti would basically benefit from a full 490 spell damage BSW proc!

So in essence, Talfyg is a 5 piece set with a mediocre spell damage bonus for a considerable damage intake increase in trials. Not worth it. If you put Thrassian under the same standard, you decide to kill a 5-piece or a monster set for an additional 2674 spell damage vs BSW. That's a hell of a deal honestly. The 40% damage intake is definitely not a deal breaker.

The real breaker on the changes to Thrassian's is not the reduction in power, but the addition of a mechanism where you lose your stacks which make the item completely obsolete. With this, they could probably increase Thrassian power and still run into fringe situations where it'll be obscenely OP. For the most part, Thrassian will only be something to laugh at with the changes.

Sheuib wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

I am saying this from a PVP perspective.

The tank meta is still very much alive in PVP. The current live version of the gloves can create a build that can kill any tank build in PVP. However, that character is the true glass cannon and requires protection from someone built like the very thing these are meant to kill. Any changes to this will basically make them useless in PVP.

I am against them adding weapon damage because stam builds already overpower magicka builds in PVP as it is. The band of brutality draw back is basically a joke in PVP. And, no it really isn't useful for a light armor build since you would basically negate one of the light armor passives.

A stack cooldown you would think would be an obvious set killer but they put it in. Many people have already stated the problems getting 20 kills in PVE but just to be clear keeping max stacks in PVP will be impossible. You would be lucky to get more than 5 stacks.

The 150 spell damage needs to not change because tanks exist. No matter what ZOS does the majority of high level PVP players in Cyrodiil build tanks. The ball groups are mostly tanks. The tower humpers are tanks. The rock jumpers are tanks. And, the obvious guy in the middle of the battlefield not dieing is a tank. You can kill any one of these guys with a high penetration thrassian build. But, like I said at the beginning he can't do it alone. It creates team play requirements.

I think the risk reward trade offs are fine just the way they are. You can't die or hide or you lose all your power. The other side quickly learns that you are the damage and an easy kill so they start looking for you.

I know my post alone isn't going to stop this. Everyone needs to stop asking for nerfs to this set. Stop saying they are overpowered. Heck this is the only thing that has truly made my character more powerful in 2 years. We haven't had character progression in so long I don't even remember the last time my character got more powerful.

Please leave the gloves as is.

Well... Here is a bit of context:

First, it greatly disadvantaged stamina PvE and somewhat PvP (you'd have to make a bow build, stay the heck away and never stealth if it already did add the weapon damage...). With B4B being a thing which made magicka hit as hard as stamina in a lot of cases, Thrassian was just a nail in the coffin.

Second, it's hard to weigh in on 40% more damage intake, less healing and less shields for 3k weapon damage before buffs (easily gets to 3.9k if you are or are near a magplar) VS 10% more damage from fire (fire damage is omnipresent in PvE) and fighters guild abilities (few enemies use these types of abilities but it's still used in PvP in spite of the cast time) for 372 spell damage before buffs.

Based on that mindset, what if you scaled the new set (Talfyg's Treachury) to current Thrassian to get an idea of how messed up it could be? I can think of 2 ways to do that. You either scale the new set based on the total spell damage with its con or scale it based on the supplemental spell damage it provides VS another set that doesn't have the con.

An example for current sets is: do you weight NMA's 481 spell damage vs the 5% cost increase or do you weight its value based on the additional 181 spell damage it provides VS Ancient Dragon guard or Julianos that doesn't have that cost increase?

The better way to scale would be based on the additional spell damage provided vs other options.

Look at BSW which provides an average of 326 spell damage vs Talfyg's : is the extra 46 spell damage worth the extra 10% fire damage intake? ESPECIALLY when you consider that you can make the most out of BSW by waiting for next proc before dropping next ulti at which point your ulti would basically benefit from a full 490 spell damage BSW proc!

So in essence, Talfyg is a 5 piece set with a mediocre spell damage bonus for a considerable damage intake increase in trials. Not worth it. If you put Thrassian under the same standard, you decide to kill a 5-piece or a monster set for an additional 2674 spell damage vs BSW. That's a hell of a deal honestly. The 40% damage intake is definitely not a deal breaker.

The real breaker on the changes to Thrassian's is not the reduction in power, but the addition of a mechanism where you lose your stacks which make the item completely obsolete. With this, they could probably increase Thrassian power and still run into fringe situations where it'll be obscenely OP. For the most part, Thrassian will only be something to laugh at with the changes.

It is a mythic item. It is supposed to be better than regular set item 5 piece bonuses. Let's compare it to Malacath's band of brutality. 25% increase to damage but can't crit. I mean come on that is basically the same dps as a full set of stacks in a pvp setting where everyone has crazy high crit resistance now. But, no extra damage taken. However, because it doesn't crit people don't see the crazy high numbers but they still die just as fast. Oh, and I almost forgot 100% up time.

And, yes if this change goes live as is I am switching to heavy and Malacath's band of brutality. And, I'm adding all proc sets on top of it because you know why not. I will ride that "broken" mechanic until it gets nerfed.