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Demand for Information concerning bots.
Myliel
✭
Hello Zenimax,
Thank you for such a great game (despite some bugged quests but that is to be expected at launch).... BUT... what ARE YOU doing about the 10+ bots in every public dungeon everywhere in the world, including level 40+ dungeons, including spots known to be placeholders for special mobs in the world, and so on....
I've been playing MMO's since 1998 and NEVER have I seen such a debacle concerning bots, you need to take action NOW and let us player see it.
Regards,
An upset Customer.
Thank you for such a great game (despite some bugged quests but that is to be expected at launch).... BUT... what ARE YOU doing about the 10+ bots in every public dungeon everywhere in the world, including level 40+ dungeons, including spots known to be placeholders for special mobs in the world, and so on....
I've been playing MMO's since 1998 and NEVER have I seen such a debacle concerning bots, you need to take action NOW and let us player see it.
Regards,
An upset Customer.
6
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Myliel✭Oh and before anyone asks, I've already reported over 70 gold spammers and botters, so I'm doing MY part, are you doing YOURS ?1
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Myliel✭I beg to differ, when you pay for a product it is your right to demand that the product works, especially when you're actively working towards that goal (ie. reporting exploiters / spammers in that case).Edited by Myliel on April 20, 2014 10:43PM2
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My quest buddy and I were discussing this morning how the recent bank and other fixes might not be enough to make us reinstate our subscription because of remaining concerns we have about the game. But we decided to play some since we still have free time left. The quest we did ended up bugged out... He found online that it was supposed to have been fixed in a previous patch but was obviously still broken. (sigh) He stopped playing for the day, so I just took a low level alt to a dungeon and was stunned to see all the clearly botting toons with names that come from keyboard mashing (bunch of random letters).
Last straw for me...0 -
Nooblet✭✭✭✭May I direct you to sticky post #2 the first thing on the list. If you're going to demand something... make it something they haven't already addressed their plans for. Thank you.3 -
Myliel✭Well that's my point exactly, I'm an avid fan of the Elder Scrolls license, I love the game so far, but this is going way too far, you see litteraly dozens of those every day, most of the time so "stacked" you can't target them all to report them.2
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, one of the ZOS people popped into a "demand" thread the other day and said "no no".XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
Myliel✭All I am "demanding" is not a "work in progress" message such as listed in post #2 as you said, Zenimax needs to act and be seen to do so, and so far we the players are not seeing anything except more bots every day.1
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ddurango✭GossiTheDog wrote: »Here's what ZOS are doing about it: they're working on the problem.
Except they aren't. It would take 1 GM 2-3 hours a day to pretty much reduce the problem to a manageable state. And it would be more productive because it would substantially reduce the amount of in game reports they have to go through. By not actively managing the problem now, they are being incredibly inefficient and creating more work for themselves and losing more money.
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pecheckler✭✭✭✭✭Stating you're working on the problem while not actively doing something about the problem is a joke. We don't care what your progress is with an anti-cheat or other mechanism to counter bots. You have an immediately available remedy too. You need to LOG INTO THE GAME, GO TO THE BOT ***, AND SWING THE FRICKIN' BAN HAMMER,Edited by pecheckler on April 21, 2014 2:27AMEnd the tedious inventory management game.5
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gladen5rwb17_ESO✭✭✭Ban hammers do not work. Reporting botters to be banned does not work. Botting is a multi-million dollar industry that today has become so refined and well implemented from games that did not code proper structures and foundations in the first place.
If you played a game such as EQ2 you would be able to see the leader boards, what every player is wearing, what their stats are, which guild they are in and so forth. This is because the game keeps record of character data. If that data changes without explanation such as a massive amount of gold added to your character, in this case account, not acquired via the game itself that player/account is banned permanently.
The only way to stop gold sellers and bots in a game is if they have no one to sell too. This is the only way to stop them. This is business, the most basic principle of business in every industry. No client, no business.
Trying to plug the hole of with tissue paper will not stop the leak.2 -
Randazzo✭✭This is Illesan tower, just outside of daggerfall. A level 5 public dungeon.
One of the first places new players encounter.
There are in fact even more bots actually PATROLLING the entire dungeon to kill the regular mobs.Edited by Randazzo on April 21, 2014 3:01AM4 -
Colbane✭✭I love this game but I can't even go into a dungeon and fight a boss. Every boss is surrounded by bots. They attack as soon as the boss appears - I mean immediately. Its impossible to get a killing blow. aazzxx and characters names like that. Here is a screenshot:
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Colbane✭✭gladen5rwb17_ESO wrote: »Ban hammers do not work. Reporting botters to be banned does not work. Botting is a multi-million dollar industry that today has become so refined and well implemented from games that did not code proper structures and foundations in the first place.
If you played a game such as EQ2 you would be able to see the leader boards, what every player is wearing, what their stats are, which guild they are in and so forth. This is because the game keeps record of character data. If that data changes without explanation such as a massive amount of gold added to your character, in this case account, not acquired via the game itself that player/account is banned permanently.
The only way to stop gold sellers and bots in a game is if they have no one to sell too. This is the only way to stop them. This is business, the most basic principle of business in every industry. No client, no business.
Trying to plug the hole of with tissue paper will not stop the leak.
This is complete BS. I don't see bots in GW2.3 -
ddurango✭gladen5rwb17_ESO wrote: »Ban hammers do not work.
Ban hammers do work. Ban early, ban often, ban liberally. The problem is that time and again, companies fail at actually having GMs in game and instead overly rely on cumbersome, antiquated, and inefficient reporting systems.
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felixgamingx1✭✭✭✭Hello Zenimax,
Thank you for such a great game (despite some bugged quests but that is to be expected at launch).... BUT... what ARE YOU doing about the 10+ bots in every public dungeon everywhere in the world, including level 40+ dungeons, including spots known to be placeholders for special mobs in the world, and so on....
I've been playing MMO's since 1998 and NEVER have I seen such a debacle concerning bots, you need to take action NOW and let us player see it.
Regards,
An upset Customer.
Demands are agains ToS0 -
gladen5rwb17_ESO wrote: »Ban hammers do not work.
Ban Hammers don't work, unless you swing them. Corrected.
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Noth✭✭✭✭gladen5rwb17_ESO wrote: »Ban hammers do not work. Reporting botters to be banned does not work. Botting is a multi-million dollar industry that today has become so refined and well implemented from games that did not code proper structures and foundations in the first place.
If you played a game such as EQ2 you would be able to see the leader boards, what every player is wearing, what their stats are, which guild they are in and so forth. This is because the game keeps record of character data. If that data changes without explanation such as a massive amount of gold added to your character, in this case account, not acquired via the game itself that player/account is banned permanently.
The only way to stop gold sellers and bots in a game is if they have no one to sell too. This is the only way to stop them. This is business, the most basic principle of business in every industry. No client, no business.
Trying to plug the hole of with tissue paper will not stop the leak.
This is complete BS. I don't see bots in GW2.
HAHAHAHAHA. There was a huge bot issue in the game I'm talking entire trains of running across zones just clearing the areas of mobs. The devs even acknowledged and were actively banning, but the trains were not getting smaller.gladen5rwb17_ESO wrote: »Ban hammers do not work.
Ban hammers do work. Ban early, ban often, ban liberally. The problem is that time and again, companies fail at actually having GMs in game and instead overly rely on cumbersome, antiquated, and inefficient reporting systems.
No they don't. In the time time takes to ban a bot, the farmers can have two more ready to go. It takes a lot more to dent a bot population.
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Colbane✭✭gladen5rwb17_ESO wrote: »Ban hammers do not work. Reporting botters to be banned does not work. Botting is a multi-million dollar industry that today has become so refined and well implemented from games that did not code proper structures and foundations in the first place.
If you played a game such as EQ2 you would be able to see the leader boards, what every player is wearing, what their stats are, which guild they are in and so forth. This is because the game keeps record of character data. If that data changes without explanation such as a massive amount of gold added to your character, in this case account, not acquired via the game itself that player/account is banned permanently.
The only way to stop gold sellers and bots in a game is if they have no one to sell too. This is the only way to stop them. This is business, the most basic principle of business in every industry. No client, no business.
Trying to plug the hole of with tissue paper will not stop the leak.
This is complete BS. I don't see bots in GW2.
HAHAHAHAHA. There was a huge bot issue in the game I'm talking entire trains of running across zones just clearing the areas of mobs. The devs even acknowledged and were actively banning, but the trains were not getting smaller.gladen5rwb17_ESO wrote: »Ban hammers do not work.
Ban hammers do work. Ban early, ban often, ban liberally. The problem is that time and again, companies fail at actually having GMs in game and instead overly rely on cumbersome, antiquated, and inefficient reporting systems.
No they don't. In the time time takes to ban a bot, the farmers can have two more ready to go. It takes a lot more to dent a bot population.
Let me guess, you run a bot. They do work, all we need are GMs actually removing them and it will settle.
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I actually was in two dungeons today with no Farmers, it was fun I was able to tag the mob a few time, got the blue drops and went on my way. Hopefully this is due to some thing the ZOS did.0
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PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭GossiTheDog wrote: »Here's what ZOS are doing about it: they're working on the problem.
Except they aren't. It would take 1 GM 2-3 hours a day to pretty much reduce the problem to a manageable state. And it would be more productive because it would substantially reduce the amount of in game reports they have to go through. By not actively managing the problem now, they are being incredibly inefficient and creating more work for themselves and losing more money.pecheckler wrote: »Stating you're working on the problem while not actively doing something about the problem is a joke. We don't care what your progress is with an anti-cheat or other mechanism to counter bots. You have an immediately available remedy too. You need to LOG INTO THE GAME, GO TO THE BOT ***, AND SWING THE FRICKIN' BAN HAMMER,
Yes imagine that. A couple of GMs going trough dozens of dungeons with hundreds of instances with dozens of bots , determining who are the bots and manually banning them faster then the boters can make new accounts. Also imagine the outrage that would ensue when people will complain about getting banned for no reason.
My only advice for people that don't like the bots is to advance fast to VR. It is a lot better in public dungeons. people do farm of course but you can tell they are people and I haven't seen a dungeon with more than 5 people at the boss in some time.
PS. Actually Zenimax had done quite a bit by making the grinding mobs for exp quite hard so we will not be seeing to many VR bots anytime soon. If they make the transition to VR even more involved it would be even better.
Edited by PBpsy on April 21, 2014 3:54AMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)0 -
CowNRB✭✭✭felixgamingx1 wrote: »Hello Zenimax,
Thank you for such a great game (despite some bugged quests but that is to be expected at launch).... BUT... what ARE YOU doing about the 10+ bots in every public dungeon everywhere in the world, including level 40+ dungeons, including spots known to be placeholders for special mobs in the world, and so on....
I've been playing MMO's since 1998 and NEVER have I seen such a debacle concerning bots, you need to take action NOW and let us player see it.
Regards,
An upset Customer.
Demands are agains ToS
I don't think people read it and if they did they don't care
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ddurango✭No they don't. In the time time takes to ban a bot, the farmers can have two more ready to go. It takes a lot more to dent a bot population.
Trust me, I can easily ban accounts faster than they can buy, create, and setup accounts. Will it completely eliminate all bots, no. Will bots be eliminated as far as 99.9% of the player base is concerned, yes.
You really can ban bots faster than they create them, but you actually have to have GMs that are proactive rather than reactive. If you have to wait for players to file reports, investigate reports (which will often be hours/days out of date), then ban, yeah, you'll never get caught up. But a proactive GM, just spawns invis to dungeons, watches the characters, bans, and moves to the next one. It takes just a couple minutes per instance. If they really know what they are doing, they are running multiple clients and multiple monitors.
At the current rate of infestation, with 6 clients running, I'm pretty sure I could be in the range of 20-40 bots banned per minute and pretty much wipe out 99% of the bot complaints and reports within a day.1 -
Minnus✭✭GossiTheDog wrote: »Here's what ZOS are doing about it: they're working on the problem.
Except they aren't. It would take 1 GM 2-3 hours a day to pretty much reduce the problem to a manageable state. And it would be more productive because it would substantially reduce the amount of in game reports they have to go through. By not actively managing the problem now, they are being incredibly inefficient and creating more work for themselves and losing more money.
You do not have a concept of what such a task entails. How many bots do you think a GM can ban in 2-3 hours? Lets pretend that a GM can efficiently ban a bot every 30 seconds (generous? very. it sometimes take more than 30 seconds to even load an instance). That is 360 bots banned in 3 hours.
How many bots do you think there are? How many instances do you think there are?
There needs to be an automated method to identify bots with a very low false positive. It takes time to refine such an algorithm.
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ddurango✭Yes imagine that. A couple of GMs going trough dozens of dungeons with hundreds of instances with dozens of bots , determining who are the bots and manually banning them faster then the boters can make new accounts. Also imagine the outrage that would ensue when people will complain about getting banned for no reason.
It takes me all of a couple of seconds to determine which character are bots in general. If its taking the GMs longer, then they should be fired. And people will always complain about getting banned for no reason. I remember a particularly memorable GW2 reddit thread where someone was doing so, and then a GM posted with the actual data and logs and people lol'd.
Tag and ban is pretty damn fast, finding bots atm is easier than shooting fish in a barrel, 99% of the "I'm banned and didn't do anything" are complete BS.
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Minnus✭✭No they don't. In the time time takes to ban a bot, the farmers can have two more ready to go. It takes a lot more to dent a bot population.
Trust me, I can easily ban accounts faster than they can buy, create, and setup accounts. Will it completely eliminate all bots, no. Will bots be eliminated as far as 99.9% of the player base is concerned, yes.
You really can ban bots faster than they create them, but you actually have to have GMs that are proactive rather than reactive. If you have to wait for players to file reports, investigate reports (which will often be hours/days out of date), then ban, yeah, you'll never get caught up. But a proactive GM, just spawns invis to dungeons, watches the characters, bans, and moves to the next one. It takes just a couple minutes per instance. If they really know what they are doing, they are running multiple clients and multiple monitors.
At the current rate of infestation, with 6 clients running, I'm pretty sure I could be in the range of 20-40 bots banned per minute and pretty much wipe out 99% of the bot complaints and reports within a day.
If you can seriously monitor 6 clients across 6 monitors (super peripheral vision or really small screens?), while being able to respond AND react in a second to these 6 clients and monitors (at 40 bots per minute, you're banning bots in under 2 seconds each)... you are an impressive human being.
Edited by Minnus on April 21, 2014 3:59AM1 -
RaZaddha✭✭✭Welcome to newly released mmorpgs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcvykGI8BBs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR2S6vYPoww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rDZau_x0wg 0 -
ddurango✭You do not have a concept of what such a task entails. How many bots do you think a GM can ban in 2-3 hours? Lets pretend that a GM can efficiently ban a bot every 30 seconds (generous? very. it sometimes take more than 30 seconds to even load an instance). That is 360 bots banned in 3 hours.
With a decent tag and ban system, a decent GM should be able to do about 10-20 tags a minute. That works out to 600-1200 bans per hour.
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Minnus✭✭You do not have a concept of what such a task entails. How many bots do you think a GM can ban in 2-3 hours? Lets pretend that a GM can efficiently ban a bot every 30 seconds (generous? very. it sometimes take more than 30 seconds to even load an instance). That is 360 bots banned in 3 hours.
With a decent tag and ban system, a decent GM should be able to do about 10-20 tags a minute. That works out to 600-1200 bans per hour.
Beautiful and to the point. We've gone from having a GM manually log into an instance to monitor for bots to a "decent tag and ban system".
Yes, a "decent tag and ban system" is what needs to be refined. (I assume the system is already in place from their last announcement).0
