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Magcro harmony bombing is the hardest carry since the bash build but doesn’t get fixed
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WreckfulAbandon wrote: »Harmony trait is the culprit here, it should be a mechanic that rewards fighting outnumbered but is instead a flat bonus that works just as well when zerging someone down.
This
The number of times I’m outnumbered 6 or 7 v 1 or 2 with half a dozen AOEs on the ground already then some magcro runs in out of nowhere and get whammed by a 10k hit, like at least a magblade has to proc up an ability that hits still not even as hard
So is it a harmony issue or magcro issue?0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Atherakhia wrote: »The fact that the class is poorly designed and offers nothing but collossus and self synergy isn't an excuse to leave an easily abused mechanic in place. The fact that no one ever considers harmony for anything anywhere besides on Necro kind of points out that the problem isn't harmony but the Necro.
No one ever considers it cause no one else has a self synergy available to be worth using it. Given a group however u are free to have harmony synergy monkeys just popping all sorts of synergies not just graveyard.
So technically no one ever considering that trait besides magcro from a solo pov doesnt mean that it's balanced but quite the opposite. Cause whenever that Tait is used u get some broken *** and thats irrelevant to magcros. It's the trait that enables all that crap.
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Atherakhia✭✭✭✭Atherakhia wrote: »The fact that the class is poorly designed and offers nothing but collossus and self synergy isn't an excuse to leave an easily abused mechanic in place. The fact that no one ever considers harmony for anything anywhere besides on Necro kind of points out that the problem isn't harmony but the Necro.
No one ever considers it cause no one else has a self synergy available to be worth using it. Given a group however u are free to have harmony synergy monkeys just popping all sorts of synergies not just graveyard.
So technically no one ever considering that trait besides magcro from a solo pov doesnt mean that it's balanced but quite the opposite. Cause whenever that Tait is used u get some broken *** and thats irrelevant to magcros. It's the trait that enables all that crap.
There are plenty of people who run group PvP and still ignore it. the only people with it are MagCros. That said, if it needs to be nerfed too, that's fine with me. But removing self-synergy for Necros needs to go. It goes against the whole design philosophy in place for years simply to sell a DLC class.
Keep in mind I'm not advocating the class is OP and needs to be nerfed. But this is clearly over performing and the class as a whole needs significant improvements. Better to just get this one out of the way right now.1 -
NinchiTV✭✭✭✭✭IMO its harmony that needs to get looked at. with 3 of them on (105% more damage) avid boneyard easily hits 30k+ on top of colossus with targets take 30% more damage...plus balor and all that pen too...1 -
sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭Talk about making a chicken out of a feather.
[snip]
Harmony is a non issue and affords a more team based play-style that is good for the game. Dying in PVP is an eventuality and doesn't mean you need to come to the forums every time as if something is wrong. Between the janky ass cover mechanics and everyone running Engine Guardian, goodness knows that not enough stuff dies fast enough anyway.
Definitely leave harmony alone, because touching it will not only affect harmony bomber specs, but tanks in pve as well.
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 12, 2020 3:20PM1 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭Talk about making a chicken out of a feather.
[snip]
Harmony is a non issue and affords a more team based play-style that is good for the game. Dying in PVP is an eventuality and doesn't mean you need to come to the forums every time as if something is wrong. Between the janky ass cover mechanics and everyone running Engine Guardian, goodness knows that not enough stuff dies fast enough anyway.
Definitely leave harmony alone, because touching it will not only affect harmony bomber specs, but tanks in pve as well.
Haha I love when people try to defend PvP cheese with the claim “it will effect my PvE tank!” on a post in the PvP forums. We are in an update with a 10% healing nerf coupled with the nerf of all outnumbered style monster sets (so basically a nerf to solo - 3 mans) and people are really trying to defend this cheese still..... There other viable ways to bomb, you just don’t get to hold block in a 12 man which requires a bit of skill, good timing and coordination. Its just people prefer to play easy mode PvP in a 12 man group like its a trial (With triple the healers) and magcro bombing favours and encourages this playstyle. Its insane how most people that have 100k ava kill and have been emp but couldn’t beat a 700 CP in a duel.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 12, 2020 3:30PM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My opinion is that, considering the trait dependence, the cool down, and situational requirements; its not OP.
Especially when looking at no CP/BGsEdited by Waffennacht on July 11, 2020 6:24PM1 -
Akinos✭✭✭✭✭
✭Talk about making a chicken out of a feather.
[snip]
Harmony is a non issue and affords a more team based play-style that is good for the game. Dying in PVP is an eventuality and doesn't mean you need to come to the forums every time as if something is wrong. Between the janky ass cover mechanics and everyone running Engine Guardian, goodness knows that not enough stuff dies fast enough anyway.
Definitely leave harmony alone, because touching it will not only affect harmony bomber specs, but tanks in pve as well.
Haha I love when people try to defend PvP cheese with the claim “it will effect my PvE tank!” on a post in the PvP forums. We are in an update with a 10% healing nerf coupled with the nerf of all outnumbered style monster sets (so basically a nerf to solo - 3 mans) and people are really trying to defend this cheese still..... There other viable ways to bomb, you just don’t get to hold block in a 12 man which requires a bit of skill, good timing and coordination. Its just people prefer to play easy mode PvP in a 12 man group like its a trial (With triple the healers) and magcro bombing favours and encourages this playstyle. Its insane how most people that have 100k ava kill and have been emp but couldn’t beat a 700 CP in a duel.
Lol..judging by your post and discussion history you think just about everything is cheese and should be nerfed. I mean you even tried to get minor mangle nerfed, like seriously? Harmony and graverobber are fine, leave them be.
Lol , swift and protective were nerfed for being too strong but harmonys fine? The idea that someone can be a “bomber” with 30k health and a s+b is a joke, plus the graveyard heals you for the damage done, like could they make it any easier, theres a reason absolutely every second person who group PvPs plays one
EVERYBODY was using swift and protective, harmony only gets used by mag necros and sometimes bombblades, thats it.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 12, 2020 3:31PMPC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp1 -
Zer0_CooL✭✭✭✭✭
✭Getting hit by a graveyard with 25k on a 30k resistence 3k crit resistence, is rediculous. No chance to "avoid" since the animation is always delayed. Say what you want but this skill needs to be reworked.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Atherakhia wrote: »Atherakhia wrote: »The fact that the class is poorly designed and offers nothing but collossus and self synergy isn't an excuse to leave an easily abused mechanic in place. The fact that no one ever considers harmony for anything anywhere besides on Necro kind of points out that the problem isn't harmony but the Necro.
No one ever considers it cause no one else has a self synergy available to be worth using it. Given a group however u are free to have harmony synergy monkeys just popping all sorts of synergies not just graveyard.
So technically no one ever considering that trait besides magcro from a solo pov doesnt mean that it's balanced but quite the opposite. Cause whenever that Tait is used u get some broken *** and thats irrelevant to magcros. It's the trait that enables all that crap.
There are plenty of people who run group PvP and still ignore it. the only people with it are MagCros. That said, if it needs to be nerfed too, that's fine with me. But removing self-synergy for Necros needs to go. It goes against the whole design philosophy in place for years simply to sell a DLC class.
Keep in mind I'm not advocating the class is OP and needs to be nerfed. But this is clearly over performing and the class as a whole needs significant improvements. Better to just get this one out of the way right now.
It doesn't matter how many people ignore it. What matters is what happens when it's used. And every synergy related problem starts with harmony cause it's the trait that enables all that crap. It's not a magcro graveyard self synergy specific issue. It's a "synergies hitting too damn hard with harmony" issue.
Does the graveyard self synergy needs adjustments. Probably I dont know, depends how hard it hits without harmony but you can go on and delete graveyard completely. Will that fix the issue? Absolutely not. You know why? You can still slap harmony and pop 30k gravity crush synergies left right and center. Cause again, harmony enables that, not magcro.1 -
sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭My question is, why is an ultimate/ well timed ability and teamplayed synergy wiping groups a problem? Many other fun and popular games utilize ults as battle defining game changers, DOTA, Overwatch, etc. ESOs ultimate abilities most of the time are just zones of debuff. With harmony, these zones of debuff get a team-play synergy set up where they actually can wipe out an enemy group and change the battle impactfully at the expense of stats for the synergizer, and if there are no synergys available or they miss their timing then they are just weaker, with no benefit.
let the synergy bombers bomb. let the VD wipe out the big dumb ball groups. heck change VD to oblivion damage. that will get people to spread out XD.1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Harmony nerfed on pts.
It still won't put an end to SnB necros that are actually tanks that : take less damage from everyone, heal more than everyone, have defile, and have a "free" explosive synergy to crutch on.
With the rest of those proc set changes, there will literally be zero downside to those builds, harmony or not, and it's ridiculous ZOS is allowing it to continue to this point and turning the other way.0 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Harmony nerfed on pts.
It still won't put an end to SnB necros that are actually tanks that : take less damage from everyone, heal more than everyone, have defile, and have a "free" explosive synergy to crutch on.
With the rest of those proc set changes, there will literally be zero downside to those builds, harmony or not, and it's ridiculous ZOS is allowing it to continue to this point and turning the other way.
Might as well stay out of pvp for the next DLC. It is going to be rough.0 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭If you guys are dying from harmony magnecros then you deserve it and shouldnt be complaining about it on the forums.
Let me in on a little secret, no magcros yse boneyard, unless if they have 3x harmony. What does this mean? It means everytime you see a necro place down boneyard i reccomend to stop whatever you are doing and get out of that aoe without wasting even a second. The reason is that activating the synergy is not instant and you have a slight amount of time to get out of the aoe as soon as they place it down. If you are complaining about getting stunned and the necro places boneyard ontop of you while stunned then you have to learn to break free and roll dodge faster. And if they place boneyard first and stun you right after, then you are not fast enough to step out of the aoe.
So what if you cant kill the necro? You are not supposed to be able to kill everyone you see, not that ive had a problem with these necros.
Long story short, get killed by playstyle with counterplay, get rekt and l2p.6 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭My question is, why is an ultimate/ well timed ability and teamplayed synergy wiping groups a problem? Many other fun and popular games utilize ults as battle defining game changers, DOTA, Overwatch, etc. ESOs ultimate abilities most of the time are just zones of debuff. With harmony, these zones of debuff get a team-play synergy set up where they actually can wipe out an enemy group and change the battle impactfully at the expense of stats for the synergizer, and if there are no synergys available or they miss their timing then they are just weaker, with no benefit.
let the synergy bombers bomb. let the VD wipe out the big dumb ball groups. heck change VD to oblivion damage. that will get people to spread out XD.
Team play isn't bad by any means. There should be team play. But you still need to look and evaluate the effectiveness of any mechanic.
A group walking around doing hundreds of thousands of dmg by just pressing synergies is simply too much.2 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you guys are dying from harmony magnecros then you deserve it and shouldnt be complaining about it on the forums.
Let me in on a little secret, no magcros yse boneyard, unless if they have 3x harmony. What does this mean? It means everytime you see a necro place down boneyard i reccomend to stop whatever you are doing and get out of that aoe without wasting even a second. The reason is that activating the synergy is not instant and you have a slight amount of time to get out of the aoe as soon as they place it down. If you are complaining about getting stunned and the necro places boneyard ontop of you while stunned then you have to learn to break free and roll dodge faster. And if they place boneyard first and stun you right after, then you are not fast enough to step out of the aoe.
So what if you cant kill the necro? You are not supposed to be able to kill everyone you see, not that ive had a problem with these necros.
Long story short, get killed by playstyle with counterplay, get rekt and l2p.
That logic is the same with the bash build you could outrun most people playing it, but this still didn’t make it ‘balanced’ L2P an actual bomber or a 1vX style build and stop relying on crutches and youtube copy paste cheese1 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭If you guys are dying from harmony magnecros then you deserve it and shouldnt be complaining about it on the forums.
Let me in on a little secret, no magcros yse boneyard, unless if they have 3x harmony. What does this mean? It means everytime you see a necro place down boneyard i reccomend to stop whatever you are doing and get out of that aoe without wasting even a second. The reason is that activating the synergy is not instant and you have a slight amount of time to get out of the aoe as soon as they place it down. If you are complaining about getting stunned and the necro places boneyard ontop of you while stunned then you have to learn to break free and roll dodge faster. And if they place boneyard first and stun you right after, then you are not fast enough to step out of the aoe.
So what if you cant kill the necro? You are not supposed to be able to kill everyone you see, not that ive had a problem with these necros.
Long story short, get killed by playstyle with counterplay, get rekt and l2p.
That logic is the same with the bash build you could outrun most people playing it, but this still didn’t make it ‘balanced’ L2P an actual bomber or a 1vX style build and stop relying on crutches and youtube copy paste cheese
Yes ofc compare a single hard hitting playstyle with a literally unkillable form that dealt like 7k dps because bash damage was high and was able to get spammed 4 times in a second. Also any build with proper defense in 810 cp wont die from boneyard alone. You need to take an entire combo to get bursted down. And also take into account that synergies have a cooldown of 20 seconds, meaning if he misses his burst he has to wait 20 seconds before he can try again.
Dont know why you are blaming me for copying builds or saying i dont know how to play.3 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Harmony bombing is cheese, but magcro’s offensive toolkit is horrible aside from it and would need significant buffs to compensate.3 -
Lole✭✭✭If you guys are dying from harmony magnecros then you deserve it and shouldnt be complaining about it on the forums.
Let me in on a little secret, no magcros yse boneyard, unless if they have 3x harmony. What does this mean? It means everytime you see a necro place down boneyard i reccomend to stop whatever you are doing and get out of that aoe without wasting even a second. The reason is that activating the synergy is not instant and you have a slight amount of time to get out of the aoe as soon as they place it down. If you are complaining about getting stunned and the necro places boneyard ontop of you while stunned then you have to learn to break free and roll dodge faster. And if they place boneyard first and stun you right after, then you are not fast enough to step out of the aoe.
So what if you cant kill the necro? You are not supposed to be able to kill everyone you see, not that ive had a problem with these necros.
Long story short, get killed by playstyle with counterplay, get rekt and l2p.
That logic is the same with the bash build you could outrun most people playing it, but this still didn’t make it ‘balanced’ L2P an actual bomber or a 1vX style build and stop relying on crutches and youtube copy paste cheese
Didn’t even play since the last addon lol, but I was a magcro from the bottom of my heart and did love to ”cheese“ all thoose braindead stamina melees with graveyard 😋
Didn’t expect that the day will come where people actually complain about magcro haha, Ehm btw I played most staminabuilds and all of them were actually much easier to play than magcro, calling it an easy and cheesy class is pathetic and shows you never played as a magcro vs a competent opponent. Im not sure if vamp fixed the issues that magcro had but if the dmg did not get massively buffed since I left, there is no way you can touch graveyard without destroying the class... I mean you can Basicly double the dmg of bb and it probably wouldn’t save magcro, is graveyard gets taken out.
Do some research on what cheese gameplay is pls.0 -
AmoralOne✭✭✭✭Harmony is getting nerfed to 20%, so from 105% to 60%.
I guess fair is fair. Either way casual players like the OP are still going to get killed by Harmony, and complain its op.PC NA - EP's Greatest Support4 -
Akinos✭✭✭✭✭
✭Once again ZOS overnerfs something into near uselessness because people are too slow and dumb to move out of things, and instead of learning to play they respawn right here on the forums and start nerf threads. I think I'll still be able to kill most people on mag necro it will just take even more effort then ever before. We'll see though.Edited by Akinos on July 14, 2020 7:17PMPC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp2 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭Once again ZOS overnerfs something into near uselessness because people are too slow and dumb to move out of things, and instead of learning to play they respawn right here on the forums and start nerf threads. I think I'll still be able to kill most people on mag necro it will just take even more effort then ever before. We'll see though.
Always those exploiting OP sets that say that. It was broken. Invincible ball groups farming pugs using most broken sets. Harmony is broken2 -
ItsJustHashtag✭✭✭✭
The ball groups aren’t invincible because of harmony.ShadowProc wrote: »Once again ZOS overnerfs something into near uselessness because people are too slow and dumb to move out of things, and instead of learning to play they respawn right here on the forums and start nerf threads. I think I'll still be able to kill most people on mag necro it will just take even more effort then ever before. We'll see though.
Always those exploiting OP sets that say that. It was broken. Invincible ball groups farming pugs using most broken sets. Harmony is broken
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Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭Once again ZOS overnerfs something into near uselessness because people are too slow and dumb to move out of things, and instead of learning to play they respawn right here on the forums and start nerf threads. I think I'll still be able to kill most people on mag necro it will just take even more effort then ever before. We'll see though.
ZOS introduced an easy, cheesy build thats halfway to a troll tank with the ability to bomb, its not like there isn’t other viable bombing classes and builds (they just aren’t as mind numbingly easy as a magcro lol). Its not like you would have been attempting to play a magnecro without some ultra crutch attached, so its not like you are coming and defending your main you’ve played solo outnumbered on for years, its pleading for your crutch to not be kicked out from underneath you. I can’t believe people play cheese thats this easy and still think “no way they’ll patch this” when like a third of the game is playing it lmao.3 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭Once again ZOS overnerfs something into near uselessness because people are too slow and dumb to move out of things, and instead of learning to play they respawn right here on the forums and start nerf threads. I think I'll still be able to kill most people on mag necro it will just take even more effort then ever before. We'll see though.
ZOS introduced an easy, cheesy build thats halfway to a troll tank with the ability to bomb, its not like there isn’t other viable bombing classes and builds (they just aren’t as mind numbingly easy as a magcro lol). Its not like you would have been attempting to play a magnecro without some ultra crutch attached, so its not like you are coming and defending your main you’ve played solo outnumbered on for years, its pleading for your crutch to not be kicked out from underneath you. I can’t believe people play cheese thats this easy and still think “no way they’ll patch this” when like a third of the game is playing it lmao.
You go and try to play magnecro without harmony and boneyard and let's see if you can kill some decent player. And get back to me with your results.Edited by Revokus on July 15, 2020 4:14AMPlaying since January 23, 20165 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭Once again ZOS overnerfs something into near uselessness because people are too slow and dumb to move out of things, and instead of learning to play they respawn right here on the forums and start nerf threads. I think I'll still be able to kill most people on mag necro it will just take even more effort then ever before. We'll see though.
ZOS introduced an easy, cheesy build thats halfway to a troll tank with the ability to bomb, its not like there isn’t other viable bombing classes and builds (they just aren’t as mind numbingly easy as a magcro lol). Its not like you would have been attempting to play a magnecro without some ultra crutch attached, so its not like you are coming and defending your main you’ve played solo outnumbered on for years, its pleading for your crutch to not be kicked out from underneath you. I can’t believe people play cheese thats this easy and still think “no way they’ll patch this” when like a third of the game is playing it lmao.
Dont *** on people when you get killed for beeing a bad player, i have only died once to a magcro harmony bomber and the one that killed me played a high damage setup. That was the first time I saw one and I was playing on my stamsorc. Didn't think much about the boneyard and died to a perfect combo. Respawned at the keep and killed him shortly after because I knew his playstyle and played accordingly.
The ones that i cant kill don't bother me because they can't kill me either unless if they hit me with bone colossus which only bad players get hit by. Highest boneyard I've received was 10k from the high damage build.
The magcro might be easy to play against zerglings that don't know how to avoid a combo, but it will never work against experienced players. Similar to every other build, only difference is that this builds main damage is from a synergy. Ever played a magblade? A zergling might think magblades are op cuz you can hit them for 15k assassins will, but an experienced player can do one dodge roll and you entire combo is gone.
Before you say I play magcro and only want my "crutch" to disappear, I don't. I only want off-meta builds to be viable because they are harder to play than normal builds. Mainly play magblade and stamsorc.1 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭And also you are saying that bombing is harder than magcro, i think otherwise. Playing a stealth bomber is almost as easy as playing a ganker speaking from experience. Buff with channeled acceleration, potion, proxy, cloak toward stack, find most dense stack, wait untill 1 second left of proxy, use soul tether. Or wait 2 sec untill proxy and use destro ult and gap closer.2
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Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭And also you are saying that bombing is harder than magcro, i think otherwise. Playing a stealth bomber is almost as easy as playing a ganker speaking from experience. Buff with channeled acceleration, potion, proxy, cloak toward stack, find most dense stack, wait untill 1 second left of proxy, use soul tether. Or wait 2 sec untill proxy and use destro ult and gap closer.
Lol if it wasn’t a giant issue it wouldn’t have been considered for a nerf 😂, before you say “because people complain about it on here”, snipe has been the most complained about skill on here with multiple forum posts at any one time, with more than enough reason to nerf it yet it never gets touched. Talking about “off meta viability” whilst complaining about the backbone of the ball groups meta damage for 2 updates being nerfed haha what a massive contradiction, something being so easy and so strong is what kills diversity when you aren’t competitive without running it.Once again ZOS overnerfs something into near uselessness because people are too slow and dumb to move out of things, and instead of learning to play they respawn right here on the forums and start nerf threads. I think I'll still be able to kill most people on mag necro it will just take even more effort then ever before. We'll see though.
ZOS introduced an easy, cheesy build thats halfway to a troll tank with the ability to bomb, its not like there isn’t other viable bombing classes and builds (they just aren’t as mind numbingly easy as a magcro lol). Its not like you would have been attempting to play a magnecro without some ultra crutch attached, so its not like you are coming and defending your main you’ve played solo outnumbered on for years, its pleading for your crutch to not be kicked out from underneath you. I can’t believe people play cheese thats this easy and still think “no way they’ll patch this” when like a third of the game is playing it lmao.
You go and try to play magnecro without harmony and boneyard and let's see if you can kill some decent player. And get back to me with your results.
You try playing it without VD on it LMAO, Im sure if you throw, necro, ancient grace, balorgh/kjalnars, masters destro and met fb, potentates bb any magica build with a pet it can be competitive. The reality is no one here was a magcro main before the cheese and you won’t be pulling your hair out trying to build one after it, you will all move on to the next newly discovered easy cheese build and come to defend it again when they nerf that too.
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