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Why are so few pvpers?
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Burtan✭✭✭✭Not true, there is always a place for inexperienced players. Every zerg is filled with them. Just type lfg in chat and follow crown. As you get better start playing in smaller groups to gain more skill and in time you will be able to solo.
Zergs are not viable at all, usually they are destroyed by 2-3 experienced players easily. When you trying to kill one player who restores his/her HP instantly doing damage at the same time and sprinting around with insane speed for 30 minutes — it's just awful. When you alone you are dead. When you in zerg (but there are no zergs sometimes) you are dead too, not in 3 but in 10 minutes. You literally required to use BiS gear/skills/classes because otherwise you just die instantly.
If you take the time to make a decent build, that wont happen. Taking on 20 players with a small group is a difficult task that few can pull off and is only possible if those 20 players are poorly equipped and inexperienced.
There is an overwhelming amount of people who run awful builds because they don't understand the strengths and weaknesses of their class and end up running sets that just dont work with their playstyle.
The truth is that imbalance in PvP lies only in a handful of skills and sets. BiS item sets aren't really needed if you take the time to understand your class and playstyle. There are however a handful of sets such as Balorgh, Eternal Vigor, New Moon Acolyte and Draugrkin's Grip which are pretty over-tuned and do provide a rather large advantage which should be addressed.
The kinds of players losing 20v3 fights are the kind that dont understand the basic mechanics of their class. I often see stamina wardens for example with a single healing skill, low weapon damage and no access to the incredibly strong Major Mending buff that is built passively into their class or even enough healing skills to survive the smallest amount of damage.
Then there are players that will light attack you at 25% HP until they die instead of making an attempt at surviving, not much you can do there.
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Burtan✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
why i have been advocating for a long time for casual non cp non gear dependent pvp as an entry for ppl with gw2 activities as an example
You could just google a build, slap on the sets and have the same advantages as everyone else.3 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
why i have been advocating for a long time for casual non cp non gear dependent pvp as an entry for ppl with gw2 activities as an example
You could just google a build, slap on the sets and have the same advantages as everyone else.
just because you copy something doesnt mean you can utilize it well besides being completely overwhelmed due to skill differences1 -
jecks33✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just found so extrange why so few people pvp on this game.
because of server performances.
Last night i logged in, I waited 5 mins to enter in a 1-1-1 campaign, I died 10 times in 30 minutes because streak didn't streak, shields didn't shield, healing skills didn't heal ---> logoutEdited by jecks33 on July 10, 2020 10:21AMPC-EU0 -
Burtan✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
why i have been advocating for a long time for casual non cp non gear dependent pvp as an entry for ppl with gw2 activities as an example
You could just google a build, slap on the sets and have the same advantages as everyone else.
just because you copy something doesnt mean you can utilize it well besides being completely overwhelmed due to skill differences
So how would non gear dependent PvP help with that?
Imo the skill gap wouldn't be so prevalent between smallscale players and large AvA group players if playing in smaller groups and learning how to improve was encouraged.4 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
why i have been advocating for a long time for casual non cp non gear dependent pvp as an entry for ppl with gw2 activities as an example
You could just google a build, slap on the sets and have the same advantages as everyone else.
just because you copy something doesnt mean you can utilize it well besides being completely overwhelmed due to skill differences
So how would non gear dependent PvP help with that?
Imo the skill gap wouldn't be so prevalent between smallscale players and large AvA group players if playing in smaller groups and learning how to improve was encouraged.
less different variables = less differences and more balance
look at gw2 activities they are doing this exactly very well, this is how i got pulled into pvp in gw2
or another good example - mario kart, a lot of people who dont like competitive pvp games often like mario kart...which is in the end the same, just in a different packaging with lower differences, skill ceiling etc.
Besides if it was that easy there would be more pvp'ers but there aren't...so if you want more pvp content and love thinking about ideas how to attract more people to pvp seems like a good idea...
Edited by Nemesis7884 on July 10, 2020 10:44AM3 -
KyleTheYounger✭✭✭
You must be new around hereI just found so extrange why so few people pvp on this game. Been in 2 spanish guilds, both with like a 400 people in it, around 50 actives on peak hours, still im THE ONLY ONE who plays PVP. Mostly Bgs and IC becouse of that. The rest just go to Cyro to do the daylies and same at IC.
Is the same in other comunitties? Do you know any Pact faction active on PvP on EUPC?
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Burtan✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
why i have been advocating for a long time for casual non cp non gear dependent pvp as an entry for ppl with gw2 activities as an example
You could just google a build, slap on the sets and have the same advantages as everyone else.
just because you copy something doesnt mean you can utilize it well besides being completely overwhelmed due to skill differences
So how would non gear dependent PvP help with that?
Imo the skill gap wouldn't be so prevalent between smallscale players and large AvA group players if playing in smaller groups and learning how to improve was encouraged.
less different variables = less differences and more balance
look at gw2 activities they are doing this exactly very well, this is how i got pulled into pvp in gw2
or another good example - mario kart, a lot of people who dont like competitive pvp games often like mario kart...which is in the end the same, just in a different packaging with lower differences, skill ceiling etc.
Besides if it was that easy there would be more pvp'ers but there aren't...so if you want more pvp content and love thinking about ideas how to attract more people to pvp seems like a good idea...
Gonna have to agree to disagree there then. I think the large array variables that exist and choices you can make for your builds and characters is the major strength of this game.2 -
ayu_fever✭✭✭✭✭if not for the 50 transmutation crystals from getting tier 1, i would NEVER go into pvp.
i dont even participate in the actual pvp itself. i just spam heals.
i am a healer main, so i take my healers to tier 1 from spamming mutagen and after about 30 minutes i have 25k AP and i am OUT!
almost flipped a keep? dont care.
need more heals? dont care.
just got my 25k and i will see you next month.
if the geodes were in the crown store i would be delighted to swipe the card as a “pay to skip” mechanic so i would never have to go into that dreadful place.
doesnt zos want my money???PS4 NA
all characters are members of the ebonheart pact master race
BLOOD FOR THE PACT
main character:
Rebekah Straight-Fire, breton templar healer: THE FATEBRINGER (dungeons, trials, pvp)
—MERIDIA’S LUSTRANT— 1100+CP; alliance rank 21 (major grade 1); Rebekah is the most devoted and loyal follower of the lady of infinite energies and the highest ascendant of meridia’s purified legion and was forged from meridia’s brilliant radiance of purity.
other meta toons-
Alexa Straight-Fire, breton warden healer: THE ALCHEMIST (dungeons, trials)
Sasha Straight-Fire, nord dragonknight tank: THE UNBREAKABLE (dungeons, trials)
Freyja Straight-Fire, nord warden tank: THE ICEBERG (dungeons, trials)
Ororo Straight-Fire, dark elf magsorc: THE SHOCKWAVE (dungeons, trials)
Michonne Straight-Fire, redguard stamDK: THE EVISCERATOR (dungeons, trials)
just for fun toons-
Rhea Straight-Fire, wood elf warden stam healer: THE RANGER
Shiva Straight-Fire, high elf warden ice mage: THE CRYOMANCER
Morgana Straight-Fire, dark elf necromancer solo play: THE DEATHSINGER
Lucille Straight-Fire, dark elf nightblade solo play: THE VOIDWALKER
Diana Straight-Fire, nord templar tank: THE CLERIC
Falsetto Straight-Fire, orc stamsorc werewolf: THE THUNDERHOWL3 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
why i have been advocating for a long time for casual non cp non gear dependent pvp as an entry for ppl with gw2 activities as an example
You could just google a build, slap on the sets and have the same advantages as everyone else.
just because you copy something doesnt mean you can utilize it well besides being completely overwhelmed due to skill differences
So how would non gear dependent PvP help with that?
Imo the skill gap wouldn't be so prevalent between smallscale players and large AvA group players if playing in smaller groups and learning how to improve was encouraged.
less different variables = less differences and more balance
look at gw2 activities they are doing this exactly very well, this is how i got pulled into pvp in gw2
or another good example - mario kart, a lot of people who dont like competitive pvp games often like mario kart...which is in the end the same, just in a different packaging with lower differences, skill ceiling etc.
Besides if it was that easy there would be more pvp'ers but there aren't...so if you want more pvp content and love thinking about ideas how to attract more people to pvp seems like a good idea...
Gonna have to agree to disagree there then. I think the large array variables that exist and choices you can make for your builds and characters is the major strength of this game.
Of course it is and you still have that
again the question is how to attract MORE people to pvp and you do that by easing their way in before they engage in more complex pvp, bg's cyrodiil etc.. and give them another option
Its obviously not working now so we have to come up with new ideas3 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just found so extrange why so few people pvp on this game. Been in 2 spanish guilds, both with like a 400 people in it, around 50 actives on peak hours, still im THE ONLY ONE who plays PVP. Mostly Bgs and IC becouse of that. The rest just go to Cyro to do the daylies and same at IC.
Is the same in other comunitties? Do you know any Pact faction active on PvP on EUPC?
Ultimately ESO is NOT a pvp game. It has a pvp element, that has grown in stature and content over time. So with that said, most players are likely to focus on pve first and foremost.
One crucial deciding factor that massively and unequivocally limits the number of players engaging with pvp, is the pretty constant levels of literally unplayable lag and performance issues.
As any pvp player will know, this is intensely frustrating and many players have left pvp or ESO altogether as a result.3 -
Burtan✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »Nemesis7884 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
why i have been advocating for a long time for casual non cp non gear dependent pvp as an entry for ppl with gw2 activities as an example
You could just google a build, slap on the sets and have the same advantages as everyone else.
just because you copy something doesnt mean you can utilize it well besides being completely overwhelmed due to skill differences
So how would non gear dependent PvP help with that?
Imo the skill gap wouldn't be so prevalent between smallscale players and large AvA group players if playing in smaller groups and learning how to improve was encouraged.
less different variables = less differences and more balance
look at gw2 activities they are doing this exactly very well, this is how i got pulled into pvp in gw2
or another good example - mario kart, a lot of people who dont like competitive pvp games often like mario kart...which is in the end the same, just in a different packaging with lower differences, skill ceiling etc.
Besides if it was that easy there would be more pvp'ers but there aren't...so if you want more pvp content and love thinking about ideas how to attract more people to pvp seems like a good idea...
Gonna have to agree to disagree there then. I think the large array variables that exist and choices you can make for your builds and characters is the major strength of this game.
Of course it is and you still have that
again the question is how to attract MORE people to pvp and you do that by easing their way in before they engage in more complex pvp, bg's cyrodiil etc.. and give them another option
Its obviously not working now so we have to come up with new ideas
I agree that an easier transition should be possible between PvE and PvP and the recent changes that gave everyone a flat value of inpen regardless of sets was a great step in the right direction.
One thing that doesn't help is that the majority of BiS PvE sets carry buffs such as Minor/Major Slayer which only work inside of dungeons and trails which means many PvErs will find themselves completely lacking any viable PvP sets. This can be rectified by a quick google search however followed by purchasing a few cheap item sets, its just not difficult to do.
Going to the effort of creating a PvP environment which would be the only area in the game not to make use of the games inherent variables and diversity offered through item sets seems like a colossal waste of resources that could be better spent attempting to fix more important issues such as UNPLAYABLE LEVELS OF LAG.0 -
BKTHNDR✭✭✭I'm not a fan of PvP in MMOs in general. And the fact that I need to completely change my skills and gear just to be viable in PvP is even more of a turn off.4 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
What do you consider casual PvP?
From my experience most players in PvP are casual players. When I think of "Casual" I think of players guarding keeps, scouting or standing on a wall firing siege on the enemy. Maybe take a resource?
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
why i have been advocating for a long time for casual non cp non gear dependent pvp as an entry for ppl with gw2 activities as an example
I think BGs are as close to casual PvP as we're going to get. Small scale group objective driven matches. I do feel they could be more imaginative in what those objectives are and with a little creativity could probably introduce more variety and potentially more casual options.2 -
Vanagrand✭✭✭
What would you say if you find a dk magicka in your pledge runs using sword and shield and doing 15 to 20k dps? Thats enough? Or he will fail to complete any vet dlc dungeon?PizzaCat82 wrote: »Why I don't PVP much:
1. No one groups up in Cyro or IC
2. Lag or desync's cause me to die before I can react to attacks
3. Unkillable everything out there and I don't give a crud enough to make a whole build just to be able to kill people in Cyro.
Why make you think that PVE gear can work there if PvP gear cant work on dgs or trials?4 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭There's a lot of people on PC NA banging their heads in Cyrodiil every night. The damn performance out there is a joke.. I played quite a bit during the last event and the performance was hit or miss but last night I just threw up my hands and logged out of the game in disgust due to lag and skills not firing after repeatedly hammering them.
A lot of pop locks on the pvp servers nightly but if they don't fix this Cyrodiil [snip], the next MMO with PVP could take a large chunk of players with it.
[Edited to remove Profanity]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 10, 2020 3:52PM0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭For me as a dabbler in PvP over the last 4 or so years I don’t enjoy it much because:
1: performance issues which seem to be getting worse and worse
2: the skill gap. Getting killed in seconds over and over again just isn’t fun for people trying to get a hang of PvP. While some are saying there is great build diversity, I just don’t see it.. And having a sub optimal build in PvP is just sooooo unforgiving. I really enjoy the RPG element of ESO so the need to basically play the meta to be even vaguely competitive is just really off putting. The no CP campaign does help with this a bit but is rarely well populated.
3. Toxicity. While of course there is toxicity in PvE especially dungeons etc it’s a whole over level in PvP, with noobs just laughed at and abused... no wonder people don’t hang about.
4. Lack of new content. It’s been years since there has been meaningful new PvP so it’s getting stale
Alright, I haven't done any competitive pve since 2017 and I have taken long breaks in between playing ESO, but as far as I remember, all stamina dps classes from which I remember for end game vet/tiral dps used dualwield/bow and medium armor with major brutality/savagery potions and you can count on your fingers which how many viable sets are usable for it.
For example in pvp, for playing a solo build which means you can defend yourself and kill others by your own skills, for the stamina based classes there are viable weapon setups such as 2h/snb, 2h/bow, 2h/dual wield, dual wield/bow, dual wield/snb, dual wield/dual wield etc and list can still go on. Speaking for armor you could use both 5heavy or 5medium, or 7medium, 7heavy, 5 medium 1heavy 1light etc, different poisons and potions, different skill set ups depending do you want more burst,survivability etc and with these set-ups you could be successful in pvp and hold your own.
There are no cookie cutters builds in PvP unlike the PvE which does have bis set ups for maximal dps.
I could name at least 20 good viable meta sets for different classes and you can combine all of them in different ways and 80% of these sets can be bought from guild traders.
So how there is no build diversity?
Oh and not to mention you don't need to run all 7 impen traits anymore.
Look at KristoferESO dude is theorycrafting thousands of pvp builds and have good success playing them.
I disagree with this 100%
Yes, there is a PVE-meta. Yes, there are BIS builds. No, none of them are necessary at all to complete ANY PVE content, including vet DLC.
*Yes, this might change if you are looking for achievements and leaderboard pushing*
I don't have a single BIS, meta, or min / maxed build. Admittedly, I run mostly as a tank, so I don't have to push dps output. But even then, I don't even run the "meta" tank sets. I hardly even run Ebon Armor (though I do have it and swap it in occasionally.) I have never been unable to complete any PVE content - including vet DLC content - due to my build.
I have been unable to complete content due to a lack of understanding of mechanics. But never because of my "sub-optimal" build.
An understanding of mechanics has been able to carry me through even when I might not have had my build fully optimized.
I mean, I'm barely CP500, so I'm at least 310 CP's short of having a fully optimized build anyways to begin with.
But in PVP?
I can count on one hand the # of other players I have killed in fair, face to face, 1 on 1 battles. And I would have fingers left over.
If your combination of build + "stick skills" isn't 100% at the top, you don't stand even a chance.
As I saw someone else once say - earlier in this thread I believe - it's elite or nothing.
As others have said, I value the RP element of the game too much to sacrifice that in the name of having the "right" PVP build.
I want to like PVP. It's something I dabble in on occasion. But at the end of the day it's something that I'm just never going to fully enjoy, because the design of the game doesn't have a place for PVP'ers like me.2 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »For me as a dabbler in PvP over the last 4 or so years I don’t enjoy it much because:
1: performance issues which seem to be getting worse and worse
2: the skill gap. Getting killed in seconds over and over again just isn’t fun for people trying to get a hang of PvP. While some are saying there is great build diversity, I just don’t see it.. And having a sub optimal build in PvP is just sooooo unforgiving. I really enjoy the RPG element of ESO so the need to basically play the meta to be even vaguely competitive is just really off putting. The no CP campaign does help with this a bit but is rarely well populated.
3. Toxicity. While of course there is toxicity in PvE especially dungeons etc it’s a whole over level in PvP, with noobs just laughed at and abused... no wonder people don’t hang about.
4. Lack of new content. It’s been years since there has been meaningful new PvP so it’s getting stale
Alright, I haven't done any competitive pve since 2017 and I have taken long breaks in between playing ESO, but as far as I remember, all stamina dps classes from which I remember for end game vet/tiral dps used dualwield/bow and medium armor with major brutality/savagery potions and you can count on your fingers which how many viable sets are usable for it.
For example in pvp, for playing a solo build which means you can defend yourself and kill others by your own skills, for the stamina based classes there are viable weapon setups such as 2h/snb, 2h/bow, 2h/dual wield, dual wield/bow, dual wield/snb, dual wield/dual wield etc and list can still go on. Speaking for armor you could use both 5heavy or 5medium, or 7medium, 7heavy, 5 medium 1heavy 1light etc, different poisons and potions, different skill set ups depending do you want more burst,survivability etc and with these set-ups you could be successful in pvp and hold your own.
There are no cookie cutters builds in PvP unlike the PvE which does have bis set ups for maximal dps.
I could name at least 20 good viable meta sets for different classes and you can combine all of them in different ways and 80% of these sets can be bought from guild traders.
So how there is no build diversity?
Oh and not to mention you don't need to run all 7 impen traits anymore.
Look at KristoferESO dude is theorycrafting thousands of pvp builds and have good success playing them.
I disagree with this 100%
Yes, there is a PVE-meta. Yes, there are BIS builds. No, none of them are necessary at all to complete ANY PVE content, including vet DLC.
*Yes, this might change if you are looking for achievements and leaderboard pushing*
I don't have a single BIS, meta, or min / maxed build. Admittedly, I run mostly as a tank, so I don't have to push dps output. But even then, I don't even run the "meta" tank sets. I hardly even run Ebon Armor (though I do have it and swap it in occasionally.) I have never been unable to complete any PVE content - including vet DLC content - due to my build.
I have been unable to complete content due to a lack of understanding of mechanics. But never because of my "sub-optimal" build.
An understanding of mechanics has been able to carry me through even when I might not have had my build fully optimized.
I mean, I'm barely CP500, so I'm at least 310 CP's short of having a fully optimized build anyways to begin with.
But in PVP?
I can count on one hand the # of other players I have killed in fair, face to face, 1 on 1 battles. And I would have fingers left over.
If your combination of build + "stick skills" isn't 100% at the top, you don't stand even a chance.
As I saw someone else once say - earlier in this thread I believe - it's elite or nothing.
As others have said, I value the RP element of the game too much to sacrifice that in the name of having the "right" PVP build.
I want to like PVP. It's something I dabble in on occasion. But at the end of the day it's something that I'm just never going to fully enjoy, because the design of the game doesn't have a place for PVP'ers like me.
[snip] I myself test like at least 3-5 build set ups for each class till I find which build I like most for my playstyle.
[snip]
Pvp is also about mechanics and intuition, if you don't know what you are doing and how your opponent plays, you will fail, similar rules applies to vet dungeons and trials, but pvp is more spontanous and chaotic it is like art, everything can go wrong at any moment and you need to react quickly be creative, patient and find a way to adapt and survive.
[Edited to remove Baiting and Rude Comments]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 10, 2020 6:32PM2 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »For me as a dabbler in PvP over the last 4 or so years I don’t enjoy it much because:
1: performance issues which seem to be getting worse and worse
2: the skill gap. Getting killed in seconds over and over again just isn’t fun for people trying to get a hang of PvP. While some are saying there is great build diversity, I just don’t see it.. And having a sub optimal build in PvP is just sooooo unforgiving. I really enjoy the RPG element of ESO so the need to basically play the meta to be even vaguely competitive is just really off putting. The no CP campaign does help with this a bit but is rarely well populated.
3. Toxicity. While of course there is toxicity in PvE especially dungeons etc it’s a whole over level in PvP, with noobs just laughed at and abused... no wonder people don’t hang about.
4. Lack of new content. It’s been years since there has been meaningful new PvP so it’s getting stale
Alright, I haven't done any competitive pve since 2017 and I have taken long breaks in between playing ESO, but as far as I remember, all stamina dps classes from which I remember for end game vet/tiral dps used dualwield/bow and medium armor with major brutality/savagery potions and you can count on your fingers which how many viable sets are usable for it.
For example in pvp, for playing a solo build which means you can defend yourself and kill others by your own skills, for the stamina based classes there are viable weapon setups such as 2h/snb, 2h/bow, 2h/dual wield, dual wield/bow, dual wield/snb, dual wield/dual wield etc and list can still go on. Speaking for armor you could use both 5heavy or 5medium, or 7medium, 7heavy, 5 medium 1heavy 1light etc, different poisons and potions, different skill set ups depending do you want more burst,survivability etc and with these set-ups you could be successful in pvp and hold your own.
There are no cookie cutters builds in PvP unlike the PvE which does have bis set ups for maximal dps.
I could name at least 20 good viable meta sets for different classes and you can combine all of them in different ways and 80% of these sets can be bought from guild traders.
So how there is no build diversity?
Oh and not to mention you don't need to run all 7 impen traits anymore.
Look at KristoferESO dude is theorycrafting thousands of pvp builds and have good success playing them.
I disagree with this 100%
Yes, there is a PVE-meta. Yes, there are BIS builds. No, none of them are necessary at all to complete ANY PVE content, including vet DLC.
*Yes, this might change if you are looking for achievements and leaderboard pushing*
I don't have a single BIS, meta, or min / maxed build. Admittedly, I run mostly as a tank, so I don't have to push dps output. But even then, I don't even run the "meta" tank sets. I hardly even run Ebon Armor (though I do have it and swap it in occasionally.) I have never been unable to complete any PVE content - including vet DLC content - due to my build.
I have been unable to complete content due to a lack of understanding of mechanics. But never because of my "sub-optimal" build.
An understanding of mechanics has been able to carry me through even when I might not have had my build fully optimized.
I mean, I'm barely CP500, so I'm at least 310 CP's short of having a fully optimized build anyways to begin with.
But in PVP?
I can count on one hand the # of other players I have killed in fair, face to face, 1 on 1 battles. And I would have fingers left over.
If your combination of build + "stick skills" isn't 100% at the top, you don't stand even a chance.
As I saw someone else once say - earlier in this thread I believe - it's elite or nothing.
As others have said, I value the RP element of the game too much to sacrifice that in the name of having the "right" PVP build.
I want to like PVP. It's something I dabble in on occasion. But at the end of the day it's something that I'm just never going to fully enjoy, because the design of the game doesn't have a place for PVP'ers like me.
[snip] I myself test like at least 3-5 build set ups for each class till I find which build I like most for my playstyle.
[snip]
Pvp is also about mechanics and intuition, if you don't know what you are doing and how your opponent plays, you will fail, similar rules applies to vet dungeons and trials, but pvp is more spontanous and chaotic it is like art, everything can go wrong at any moment and you need to react quickly be creative, patient and find a way to adapt and survive.
The point is, ESO doesn't have a place for players like me to "l2p"
It's either I'm decked out in an elite setup and skills, OR I stand 0 opportunity to have any sort of success.
There is nothing about ESO PVP that makes me want to take the time to get better, because I am so far off that I don't stand a chance.
And it's not because I generally suck at PVP. I've been playing PVP in MMO's, FPS, sports games, and anything else for my entire gaming life. I generally enjoy PVP content. One of my favorite MMO's ever was Warhammer Online where I was pretty solid in PVP, so MMO PVP is not some foreign concept to me where I am just some n00b that's trying to come in with starter gear and whining because I'm not l33t.
ESO is the one sole game where I cannot get into PVP, because the design does not allow for a low to mid player to develop and get better, because ESO PVP caters solely to the top of the pack. You cannot PVP casually. You cannot dabble. You have to be all or nothing.
My original response to you is the point that to participate in and succeed in PVE, you do not need to be the top of the pack. You can have off-meta builds and even not fully refined technique and still succeed in PVE - making it appealing for people to engage in and continually get better.
ESO PVP drives you away unless you are already at the top.Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on July 10, 2020 6:31PM2 -
Urvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭YandereGirlfriend wrote: »Complaining about builds being powerful in PvP is a super weak argument against PvP.
The exact same thing is true for PvE except even more so (hello Mother's Sorrow, False God's, Zaan on basically every Magicka class and Relequen, Lokke, Selene's on every Stamina class).
You are missing a critical point: there is NO casual PvP in this game. I can play PvE just fine not touching vet content at all, but I cannot play PvP at all, there just no place for inexperienced player.
What? All the PvP in this game is casual...2 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭How do you think all the good pvp players got good? They weren’t automatically good, there is no magical meta gear that just made them good.
They did it by dieing over and over again, learning every class so they know the counters, experiment with different builds till they find one that matches their play style, and kept trying instead of making excuses.
Its fine if some of you don’t like pvp, but to say you cant get better or there is no place for low to mid skilled players is so untrue. Theres more resources available to help you get good then there ever has been in the history of the game.
4 -
Drunkensot✭✭Just one example why the performance issues make this game difficult to play:
Im with a group busting into a keep. Then I can long longer execute any skills. I can move, but can click on a heal skill etc. Everything/everyone else on the screen is in a loop. This goes on for about two minutes. Then I get kicked out of the game. Try to log on. Can't, im already logged in. Try again, cant. This goes on for another few minutes. Finally get back on, Im in the middle of the keep. Surrounded now by 20 of the other side. And die within five seconds. Nice.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
^^^^^^^ Literally thisBecause of bad performance and skillgap nerf every patch for 2 years now
There used to be an enormously larger population AND the rewards were absolutely trash (no transmutes, no real items to buy for AP and sell for gold) as well as the AP earning rate being significantly less.
2 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭How do you think all the good pvp players got good? They weren’t automatically good, there is no magical meta gear that just made them good.
They did it by dieing over and over again, learning every class so they know the counters, experiment with different builds till they find one that matches their play style, and kept trying instead of making excuses.
Its fine if some of you don’t like pvp, but to say you cant get better or there is no place for low to mid skilled players is so untrue. Theres more resources available to help you get good then there ever has been in the history of the game.
There's no lesson to be learned about "getting good" when you're ganked from behind while killing some PVE'ers in Imperial City and dead before you even know what hit you.
There's no lesson to be learned about "getting good" when you can invis behind someone, drop your whole DPS burst on them, and drop them down as low as 96%
You can say I just need to "git gud" and "l2p", but when that is the PVP experience, it makes me not want to continue trying.
There's no "I'm almost there, if I work on X, Y, Z thing I can get to where I need to be"
It's just 1 shots and no damage dealt back, a completely uneven playing field that is woefully discouraging to anybody who isn't already at the top.2 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »For me as a dabbler in PvP over the last 4 or so years I don’t enjoy it much because:
1: performance issues which seem to be getting worse and worse
2: the skill gap. Getting killed in seconds over and over again just isn’t fun for people trying to get a hang of PvP. While some are saying there is great build diversity, I just don’t see it.. And having a sub optimal build in PvP is just sooooo unforgiving. I really enjoy the RPG element of ESO so the need to basically play the meta to be even vaguely competitive is just really off putting. The no CP campaign does help with this a bit but is rarely well populated.
3. Toxicity. While of course there is toxicity in PvE especially dungeons etc it’s a whole over level in PvP, with noobs just laughed at and abused... no wonder people don’t hang about.
4. Lack of new content. It’s been years since there has been meaningful new PvP so it’s getting stale
Alright, I haven't done any competitive pve since 2017 and I have taken long breaks in between playing ESO, but as far as I remember, all stamina dps classes from which I remember for end game vet/tiral dps used dualwield/bow and medium armor with major brutality/savagery potions and you can count on your fingers which how many viable sets are usable for it.
For example in pvp, for playing a solo build which means you can defend yourself and kill others by your own skills, for the stamina based classes there are viable weapon setups such as 2h/snb, 2h/bow, 2h/dual wield, dual wield/bow, dual wield/snb, dual wield/dual wield etc and list can still go on. Speaking for armor you could use both 5heavy or 5medium, or 7medium, 7heavy, 5 medium 1heavy 1light etc, different poisons and potions, different skill set ups depending do you want more burst,survivability etc and with these set-ups you could be successful in pvp and hold your own.
There are no cookie cutters builds in PvP unlike the PvE which does have bis set ups for maximal dps.
I could name at least 20 good viable meta sets for different classes and you can combine all of them in different ways and 80% of these sets can be bought from guild traders.
So how there is no build diversity?
Oh and not to mention you don't need to run all 7 impen traits anymore.
Look at KristoferESO dude is theorycrafting thousands of pvp builds and have good success playing them.
I disagree with this 100%
Yes, there is a PVE-meta. Yes, there are BIS builds. No, none of them are necessary at all to complete ANY PVE content, including vet DLC.
*Yes, this might change if you are looking for achievements and leaderboard pushing*
I don't have a single BIS, meta, or min / maxed build. Admittedly, I run mostly as a tank, so I don't have to push dps output. But even then, I don't even run the "meta" tank sets. I hardly even run Ebon Armor (though I do have it and swap it in occasionally.) I have never been unable to complete any PVE content - including vet DLC content - due to my build.
I have been unable to complete content due to a lack of understanding of mechanics. But never because of my "sub-optimal" build.
An understanding of mechanics has been able to carry me through even when I might not have had my build fully optimized.
I mean, I'm barely CP500, so I'm at least 310 CP's short of having a fully optimized build anyways to begin with.
But in PVP?
I can count on one hand the # of other players I have killed in fair, face to face, 1 on 1 battles. And I would have fingers left over.
If your combination of build + "stick skills" isn't 100% at the top, you don't stand even a chance.
As I saw someone else once say - earlier in this thread I believe - it's elite or nothing.
As others have said, I value the RP element of the game too much to sacrifice that in the name of having the "right" PVP build.
I want to like PVP. It's something I dabble in on occasion. But at the end of the day it's something that I'm just never going to fully enjoy, because the design of the game doesn't have a place for PVP'ers like me.
[snip] I myself test like at least 3-5 build set ups for each class till I find which build I like most for my playstyle.
[snip]
Pvp is also about mechanics and intuition, if you don't know what you are doing and how your opponent plays, you will fail, similar rules applies to vet dungeons and trials, but pvp is more spontanous and chaotic it is like art, everything can go wrong at any moment and you need to react quickly be creative, patient and find a way to adapt and survive.
The point is, ESO doesn't have a place for players like me to "l2p"
It's either I'm decked out in an elite setup and skills, OR I stand 0 opportunity to have any sort of success.
There is nothing about ESO PVP that makes me want to take the time to get better, because I am so far off that I don't stand a chance.
And it's not because I generally suck at PVP. I've been playing PVP in MMO's, FPS, sports games, and anything else for my entire gaming life. I generally enjoy PVP content. One of my favorite MMO's ever was Warhammer Online where I was pretty solid in PVP, so MMO PVP is not some foreign concept to me where I am just some n00b that's trying to come in with starter gear and whining because I'm not l33t.
ESO is the one sole game where I cannot get into PVP, because the design does not allow for a low to mid player to develop and get better, because ESO PVP caters solely to the top of the pack. You cannot PVP casually. You cannot dabble. You have to be all or nothing.
My original response to you is the point that to participate in and succeed in PVE, you do not need to be the top of the pack. You can have off-meta builds and even not fully refined technique and still succeed in PVE - making it appealing for people to engage in and continually get better.
ESO PVP drives you away unless you are already at the top.
When I first started pvping I died a lot and got one shotted, but I did research, testing and dueled with people better than me to learn the basic principles of pvp.
Pvp is a process which will take time to learn.
One thing I want to add, that there is no one Bis pvp gear that will carry you. There are a lot of different options and you can obtain all of that gear pretty easy.
I remember back in 2017 I farmed lich gear for my magplar for weeks till I got 1h and shield with right trait and purple jewelry, but right now you can do normal dungeon and upgrade your jewelry and change your traits. Getting decent pvp gear isnt hard, you don't need to farm for months.
ESO pvp is actually very casual friendly, you can play solo battlegrounds by yourself any time you want, there are no premades, you dont need to be in "elite groups" to succeed. Most good pvpers are actually nice and they can help you with builds if you ask and be polite, sure some can be jerks, but most of them are nice thats my experience.
2 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »How do you think all the good pvp players got good? They weren’t automatically good, there is no magical meta gear that just made them good.
They did it by dieing over and over again, learning every class so they know the counters, experiment with different builds till they find one that matches their play style, and kept trying instead of making excuses.
Its fine if some of you don’t like pvp, but to say you cant get better or there is no place for low to mid skilled players is so untrue. Theres more resources available to help you get good then there ever has been in the history of the game.
There's no lesson to be learned about "getting good" when you're ganked from behind while killing some PVE'ers in Imperial City and dead before you even know what hit you.
There's no lesson to be learned about "getting good" when you can invis behind someone, drop your whole DPS burst on them, and drop them down as low as 96%
You can say I just need to "git gud" and "l2p", but when that is the PVP experience, it makes me not want to continue trying.
There's no "I'm almost there, if I work on X, Y, Z thing I can get to where I need to be"
It's just 1 shots and no damage dealt back, a completely uneven playing field that is woefully discouraging to anybody who isn't already at the top.
But there are lessons to be learned from being ganked, its to always have your buffs, heal over times, and shield active at all times. Its to make sure you have enough health and resistance in your build. Its to learn to roll dodge and heal whenever there is a gank attempt.
As far as the X, Y, Z thing goes yes it does apply to eso, but there are many more variables. There’s builds, offensive/defensive rotations, learning every class, line of sight, target selection, CP allotment, etc. If you work on those things then you will get better, thats how good players did it.
It does have a steep skill/knowledge gap for beginners, but it’s very rewarding if you stick it out. The variety of builds and classes combined with taking and defending keeps makes for some great pvp.
1 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭stevenyaub16_ESO wrote: »PvP is the smallest minority in the game.
goes something like this: story/solo > social/casual > endgame PvE > PvP.
Used to be much more popular there used to be many Cyrodiil campaigns and they get fewer as time goes by, before this event there was only 3 (L50) and 1 was still dead.
I'd wager many left when the performance was horrendous, it's bearable now. But like all PvP games, stability is one of the key pillars for success which this one does not have.
PvP is small b/c performance sucks.
Low pvp population is the symptom, not the issue.
And ZOS works hard at reducing the size of the pvp popluation even further with each update:
Performance only worsens and skill is almost a non-requirement anymore.2
