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Vampirism feels like it should now. Great job.
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Sanguinor2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Except you were able to do all that stuff before BFB. BFB existing does not change that fact.
Please tell me where I say anything contrary to that?
What I have been saying from the start is that not running BFB means that my damage is not competitive compared to other people anymore, not that content becomes impossible.
[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 9, 2020 2:33PMPoliteness is respecting others.
Courage is doing what is fair.
Modesty is speaking of oneself without vanity.
Self control is keeping calm even when anger rises.
Sincerity is expressing oneself without concealing ones thoughts.
Honor is keeping ones word.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Except you were able to do all that stuff before BFB. BFB existing does not change that fact.
Please tell me where I say anything contrary to that?
What I have been saying from the start is that not running BFB means that my damage is not competitive compared to other people anymore, not that content becomes impossible.
[snip]
[snip]
You're making a hyperbolic claim that BFB is a mandatory skill when it is not. You have failed to explain how it is mandatory other than to say "other people"
If you can do your very HM trials without it, it is not mandatory. What other people are doing has nothing to do with that and has not made your build or performance even remotely worse
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 9, 2020 2:33PM0 -
JMadFour✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Except you were able to do all that stuff before BFB. BFB existing does not change that fact.
Please tell me where I say anything contrary to that?
What I have been saying from the start is that not running BFB means that my damage is not competitive compared to other people anymore, not that content becomes impossible.
[snip]
[snip]
You're making a hyperbolic claim that BFB is a mandatory skill when it is not. You have failed to explain how it is mandatory other than to say "other people"
If you can do your very HM trials without it, it is not mandatory. What other people are doing has nothing to do with that and has not made your build or performance even remotely worse
For players like him, what other people are doing is the only thing that matters and it absolutely makes his build worse. If a theorycrafter says that *Insert skill* is best in slot, and he is not using it, that makes his build worse. His build WAS best in slot, but it is not best in slot anymore, unless he uses *insert skill* that the theorycrafters dictate. So he HAS to use it. He has to keep up with the Meta or else.
"Competitive content" players are like that. That's how they enjoy the game.
Which is why I am glad I am not one. I just wanna experience the dungeons/trials, I don't care about finishing it 30 seconds faster than anyone else.
Personally, If Arterial Burst were a ranged skill I would swap morphs immediately. But that is me, and YMMV.Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 9, 2020 2:38PM3 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Except you were able to do all that stuff before BFB. BFB existing does not change that fact.
Please tell me where I say anything contrary to that?
What I have been saying from the start is that not running BFB means that my damage is not competitive compared to other people anymore, not that content becomes impossible.
[snip]
[snip]
You're making a hyperbolic claim that BFB is a mandatory skill when it is not. You have failed to explain how it is mandatory other than to say "other people"
If you can do your very HM trials without it, it is not mandatory. What other people are doing has nothing to do with that and has not made your build or performance even remotely worse
If Artierial Burst were a ranged skill I would swap morphs immediately.
Probably agree. BFB and Arterial Burst feel clunky using them in rotation from melee as a ranged mag dps.
And if a change has to be made, maybe have BFB damage scale off of health as well, meaning low health DPS get less benefit from itEdited by ZOS_Lunar on July 9, 2020 2:38PM0 -
JMadFour✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Probably agree. BFB and Arterial Burst feel clunky using them in rotation from melee as a ranged mag dps.
And if a change has to be made, maybe have BFB damage scale off of health as well, meaning low health DPS get less benefit from it
Oh that'd make Vampire Tanking pretty dope.Edited by JMadFour on July 8, 2020 10:30PM0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Except you were able to do all that stuff before BFB. BFB existing does not change that fact.
Please tell me where I say anything contrary to that?
What I have been saying from the start is that not running BFB means that my damage is not competitive compared to other people anymore, not that content becomes impossible.
Quite frankly Im getting tired of you accidentally or intentionally misconstructing my arguments and my opinions so please read what you quote before you answer allright?
No, I'm reading you just fine.
You're making a hyperbolic claim that BFB is a mandatory skill when it is not. You have failed to explain how it is mandatory other than to say "other people"
If you can do your very HM trials without it, it is not mandatory. What other people are doing has nothing to do with that and has not made your build or performance even remotely worse
If Artierial Burst were a ranged skill I would swap morphs immediately.
Probably agree. BFB and Arterial Burst feel clunky using them in rotation from melee as a ranged mag dps.
And if a change has to be made, maybe have BFB damage scale off of health as well, meaning low health DPS get less benefit from it
If it's damage scaled off max health we'd see some weird builds. Like example Blood Frenzy used with Blood for Blood could see a lot more use, and the stage 3 passive would become more efficient boosting your effective health further. Still not sure about vampiric drain as it's nature as a channel is still a detriment, but the max heal on the ult could be very effective indeed.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
Except you were able to do all that stuff before BFB. BFB existing does not change that fact.
Please tell me where I say anything contrary to that?
What I have been saying from the start is that not running BFB means that my damage is not competitive compared to other people anymore, not that content becomes impossible.
Quite frankly Im getting tired of you accidentally or intentionally misconstructing my arguments and my opinions so please read what you quote before you answer allright?
No, I'm reading you just fine.
You're making a hyperbolic claim that BFB is a mandatory skill when it is not. You have failed to explain how it is mandatory other than to say "other people"
If you can do your very HM trials without it, it is not mandatory. What other people are doing has nothing to do with that and has not made your build or performance even remotely worse
If Artierial Burst were a ranged skill I would swap morphs immediately.
Probably agree. BFB and Arterial Burst feel clunky using them in rotation from melee as a ranged mag dps.
And if a change has to be made, maybe have BFB damage scale off of health as well, meaning low health DPS get less benefit from it
If it's damage scaled off max health we'd see some weird builds. Like example Blood Frenzy used with Blood for Blood could see a lot more use, and the stage 3 passive would become more efficient boosting your effective health further. Still not sure about vampiric drain as it's nature as a channel is still a detriment, but the max heal on the ult could be very effective indeed.
I'm already running the various vampire skills and passives for some fairly unique builds.
I main a Breton Necromancer tank, and I turned him vampire for RP reasons. I've gotten a setup now where I stay at Stage 3 for the mitigation bonus, as well as Strike From Shadows passive, and using a combination of Elusive Mist with Strike From Shadows, and some various other means as well, I've turned my tank into a somewhat offensive build. Obviously not nearly as capable as an actual DPS build, but a tank with some punch.
I still push around 40k health, max resistances, and when I have my buffs fully up and running, I'm looking at around 3k spell damage on the stat sheet. Since I'm a necro, a lot of my debuffs, sustains, and self heals also double as DOT's or HOT's (Unnerving Graveyard, Hungry Scythe, Mystic Siphon, Glacial Colossus, Enduring Undeath / Braided Tether) so the extra spell damage is actually beneficial. I was originally going to run Sated Frenzy on him, but ended up feeling like draining my health as a tank was a bad idea, and that the addition 650 spell damage wasn't worth the trade-off of life drain and the inability for my healers to heal me.
My current setup is:
Monster Set: Balorgh / Lord Warden
Armor Set: Leeching Plate
Weapons / Jewelry: Akaviri Dragonguard / Vampire Cloak / Grave Guardian / Claw Of Yolnakhriin / Shroud Of The Lich
I'll change up my monster set and weapon / jewelry set based on my specific needs, those are all sets that currently are or at some point have been in my rotation.
I also have a High Elf Necromancer magicka dps. On him I *do* run Sated Frenzy, and I basically let the drain go all the way down, because I also have the Phoenix set from Imp City, so when I drop sub-25%, I get a massive damage shield, a big burst AOE (10k per enemy hit), and Sated Frenzy deactivates, I get a burst heal back to full life, so I'm now running with full life and a huge damage shield after having done a big AOE burst as well. It's been fun, but my healers hate me lol.
Current setup:
Monster Set: Nerien'eth
Armor Set: Phoenix
Weapons / Jewelry: Shroud Of The Lich0 -
Thannazzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭The strengths and weeknesses of the vamp changes are subject to much discussion.
My principal issue is that despite Lamae Baal self grandising that she has perfected the line through alchemy, she has in fact done a disservice to her progeny and I'm beginning to doubt her motivations.
First, if your going to adjust the vampire Lord form to a blood scion Ms Baal, try making it resemble Molag less that the original version rather than more. Frankly glowing red eyes and wing stubs on our existing appearance would have been better that the aesthetic travesty we have been subjected to.
Second, Where's our option to gap close/fast travel as a swarm of bat's. Denying us that ability makes me concerned you have been feeding on too many scooma adicts lately.Edited by Thannazzar on July 9, 2020 7:49AM4 -
ElvenOverlord✭✭✭✭Great? You're either delusional or you just get a kick out of being a contrarian if you think the new vamp system is great. Fairly decent but with a number of flaws? Sure. But stop over exaggerating.2 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭The new skill line is for dps
And? Werewolf isn't for healing or tanking either, is it.
The idea was to stop Vampirism being a passive buff for everyone. To make it more niche like Werewolf and something you have to build into to get the most out of. I think Zos more or less succeeded in this aim.
Personally there are a few things I would change, but I think they did a good job.0 -
ZOS_LunaradminGreetings!
We've removed some posts from this thread given their baiting nature. We understand that everyone has their own opinions they want to express, but we also want the forums to be a constructive platform for ESO and its community. Thank you for your understanding, and please keep the Community Rules in mind when posting on the forums.The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
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Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grianasteri wrote: »
And? Werewolf isn't for healing or tanking either, is it.
The idea was to stop Vampirism being a passive buff for everyone. To make it more niche like Werewolf and something you have to build into to get the most out of. I think Zos more or less succeeded in this aim.
Personally there are a few things I would change, but I think they did a good job.
While you're not wrong about werewolf there is one factor that goes into play that many people keep forgetting about when we compare vampires to them, and that is werewolf is an option once acquired while vampirisim hijacks your character's whole being.
You can tank and heal as a werewolf with no downsides until you activate the ultimate, which changes your whole bar and has you take 25% more poison damage, but vampires are constantly feeling the effects of their condition even at stage 1. Of course the debuffs to sustain and health regeneration are very minor at stage 1 but go any higher and it becomes a bit more difficult to work with.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭Grianasteri wrote: »
And? Werewolf isn't for healing or tanking either, is it.
The idea was to stop Vampirism being a passive buff for everyone. To make it more niche like Werewolf and something you have to build into to get the most out of. I think Zos more or less succeeded in this aim.
Personally there are a few things I would change, but I think they did a good job.
While you're not wrong about werewolf there is one factor that goes into play that many people keep forgetting about when we compare vampires to them, and that is werewolf is an option once acquired while vampirisim hijacks your character's whole being.
You can tank and heal as a werewolf with no downsides until you activate the ultimate, which changes your whole bar and has you take 25% more poison damage, but vampires are constantly feeling the effects of their condition even at stage 1. Of course the debuffs to sustain and health regeneration are very minor at stage 1 but go any higher and it becomes a bit more difficult to work with.
Not to mention werewolves have a complete kit too. A gap closer, AoE damage, very big self heal, very big single target target damage, fear CC. Their kit is honestly waaaaay better than the vampire. As all of their abilities can be used.
And idk if the trade off for only being able to use those abilities in that form vs being able to use the abilities all the time (but you have way more worse weaknesses permanently) is a good trade?
Honestly, vampirism feels like it got the short end of the stick.1 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭ElvenOverlord wrote: »Great? You're either delusional or you just get a kick out of being a contrarian if you think the new vamp system is great. Fairly decent but with a number of flaws? Sure. But stop over exaggerating.
Yeah, like, it's certainly better than old vampire. But the bar for that was so low is that really an achievement? I don't understand the people that are arguing that the skill line is amazing as is.
It's pretty delusional because if it does end up being made *better* then.... By via adding more useful abilities such as a gap closer or editing around the ultimate/spammable, then....wouldn't they enjoy it better too? That's the part I don't get.
It's like they don't realize that improvements, if they like the current vamp, would help them as well. Kinda weird, honestly.0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭ElvenOverlord wrote: »Great? You're either delusional or you just get a kick out of being a contrarian if you think the new vamp system is great. Fairly decent but with a number of flaws? Sure. But stop over exaggerating.
Yeah, like, it's certainly better than old vampire. But the bar for that was so low is that really an achievement? I don't understand the people that are arguing that the skill line is amazing as is.
It's pretty delusional because if it does end up being made *better* then.... By via adding more useful abilities such as a gap closer or editing around the ultimate/spammable, then....wouldn't they enjoy it better too? That's the part I don't get.
It's like they don't realize that improvements, if they like the current vamp, would help them as well. Kinda weird, honestly.
I dont think even 1 single person has said the skill line is 100% perfect and can't be improved.
I'm pretty sure that every single person on either side of this discussion has agreed that, at the very least, there are still improvements to be made.
All our point is, is that
1. Vampire is an improvement over what it was
2. Vampire *can* be used effectively among various builds, the fact that some people have not yet discovered those uses does not make the skill line bad design.
In return, because we like where it's currently at (even if we can agree that there can be improvements) we are being met with calls of "naive", "delusional", "contrarian", or now, "weird"2 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Although vampire builds can feel OP sometimes, I actually like the way they are now compared to what they were in the past. In times past, I often didn't know I was fighting a vampire until they used mist form. Now, it's pretty obvious from the start and that's cool.0 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »ElvenOverlord wrote: »Great? You're either delusional or you just get a kick out of being a contrarian if you think the new vamp system is great. Fairly decent but with a number of flaws? Sure. But stop over exaggerating.
Yeah, like, it's certainly better than old vampire. But the bar for that was so low is that really an achievement? I don't understand the people that are arguing that the skill line is amazing as is.
It's pretty delusional because if it does end up being made *better* then.... By via adding more useful abilities such as a gap closer or editing around the ultimate/spammable, then....wouldn't they enjoy it better too? That's the part I don't get.
It's like they don't realize that improvements, if they like the current vamp, would help them as well. Kinda weird, honestly.
I dont think even 1 single person has said the skill line is 100% perfect and can't be improved.
I'm pretty sure that every single person on either side of this discussion has agreed that, at the very least, there are still improvements to be made.
All our point is, is that
1. Vampire is an improvement over what it was
2. Vampire *can* be used effectively among various builds, the fact that some people have not yet discovered those uses does not make the skill line bad design.
In return, because we like where it's currently at (even if we can agree that there can be improvements) we are being met with calls of "naive", "delusional", "contrarian", or now, "weird"
Nah it's because you think you can use it in a few builds that the design is fine, that's the issue. Just because you can use the necro skill "grave grasp" in a build does not make that skill suddenly well designed. People are coming after you because you are defending a poorly designed skill line just because you can use it. Lol actually now that I think about it, the fact that some people are actually defending the new vampiric drain is laughable 😂😂. And tbh, saying that the skill line is better than before is ridiculous. You are comparing a 5 skill line to a 2 skill line and then saying "see that's 3 more skills, so its waaaaay better", yes obviously you are going to have more variety with more skills. Using that very very narrow perspective is almost deluding in a way.Edited by Nova_J on July 9, 2020 9:39PM2 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »ElvenOverlord wrote: »Great? You're either delusional or you just get a kick out of being a contrarian if you think the new vamp system is great. Fairly decent but with a number of flaws? Sure. But stop over exaggerating.
Yeah, like, it's certainly better than old vampire. But the bar for that was so low is that really an achievement? I don't understand the people that are arguing that the skill line is amazing as is.
It's pretty delusional because if it does end up being made *better* then.... By via adding more useful abilities such as a gap closer or editing around the ultimate/spammable, then....wouldn't they enjoy it better too? That's the part I don't get.
It's like they don't realize that improvements, if they like the current vamp, would help them as well. Kinda weird, honestly.
I dont think even 1 single person has said the skill line is 100% perfect and can't be improved.
I'm pretty sure that every single person on either side of this discussion has agreed that, at the very least, there are still improvements to be made.
All our point is, is that
1. Vampire is an improvement over what it was
2. Vampire *can* be used effectively among various builds, the fact that some people have not yet discovered those uses does not make the skill line bad design.
In return, because we like where it's currently at (even if we can agree that there can be improvements) we are being met with calls of "naive", "delusional", "contrarian", or now, "weird"
Nah it's because you think you can use it in a few builds that the design is fine, that's the issue. Just because you can use the necro skill "grave grasp" in a build does not make that skill suddenly well designed. People are coming after you because you are defending a poorly designed skill line just because you can use it. Lol actually now that I think about it, the fact that some people are actually defending the new vampiric drain is laughable 😂😂. And tbh, saying that the skill line is better than before is ridiculous. You are comparing a 5 skill line to a 2 skill line and then saying "see that's 3 more skills, so its waaaaay better", yes obviously you are going to have more variety with more skills. Using that very very narrow perspective is almost deluding in a way.
Coincidentally, on Monday Grave Grasp is apparently getting some changes. The devs have admitted it is possibly the worst necromancer class ability and they're listening to feedback on such.
Something similar can be done with vampire.0