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Vampirism feels like it should now. Great job.
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SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭Sargesgaming wrote: »TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »If you think the new Vampirism is worse then the old one then your delusional, most of you only took Vampirism for a a single passive and now think the Skillline is bad just because it does not cater to your build, well guess what it is a large improvement on my build, I use Stealth all the time so Unnatural Movement is handy, Blood to Blood is my main DPS and with my Siphon attacks i never run out of resources and have killed plenty of players with it, with Simmering Frenzy I can get over 5k Spell Power on my Mageblade, a few times i have even managed to hit 6k Spell Power, even Hypnotize has gotten me a victory now and again.
The old Vampire system only had 2 Skills and 1 Ultimate, 1 of which was useless and still is, a passive that only activated when you were at 50% health and a rather insignificant 10% boost to Stamina and Magic regeneration, the only useful passive was Dark Stalker, the new Vampire system though, the Blood Scion Ultimate is probably one of the most powerful Ultimates in the game, 10,000 extra health, magic and stamina gives a monstrous damage boost to attacks because they scale off of max stats, Undeath is better because it is always active now instead of just at 50% health, there are more abilities to make use of.
If you do not feel like a Vampire with your Templar Vampire then maybe you should try a class that syncs well with it like IDK a Nightblade, of course your not going to feel like a Vampire when your primary means of attack is spamming light spells.
Lol even on the pts we all said that these changes were only going to be for gank/bomb builds, especially on a nightblade. But if people are actually letting you get away with using simmering and BfB then they probably just dont know what they are doing. Even 1 sec stun can mean your life when frenzy is active, everytime I see that *** move I stun and they die. Just last night I was dueling a bunch of people who were running around with a bunch of vamp skills thinking they were all that, and literally everytime they activated frenzy they either died, or almost died. Now you using hypno as your cc? That's fine, but there are much more reliable and better skills that have more utility. And now for you using BfB.......I could see you using that on a bomb build, but using this in a 1v1 enough times to burst someone down is dangerous, siphoning strikes doesnt really cover the health cost of using this in rapid succession. On a class with a good burst heal maybe, but on a mag Nb? Nah, that's not wise. And blood scion is a joke in pvp, if you have no gap closer people can just reset the fight by running or (and this happens often) you can get bursted down while transforming.
As for PvE vampire are going to kill diversity even more than before lol. BfB will become almost mandatory because it eliminates sustain issues almost completely. And since it completely overshadows the other morph (there's already alot of ways to get high crit), it probably going to be nerfed soon. The rest of the skill line is.....ok for pve. Nothing amazing at all, mist form is a great purge, but breathing through the wrong nostril takes you out of it , frenzy is too high maintenance to use outside of vet dungeons and overland. The whole thing just needs serious work. Outside of my magblade (which is my fun toon) this skill line doesnt really synergize with much. Would look cool on a necro though I guess. And this was just a nerf for anything outside of a dps, mist form on a tank is just......no.
you can turn it off you know, I dont think people understand what toggle means...even stunned just toggle it off when stunned...Dont be dumb and you wont die, simple really
I don't think you can toggle things off while stunned.0 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭Paradisius wrote: »Its an improvement over what we had in terms of an actual skill line, but thats not really a high bar...
It has alot of issues, yes there are more skills to use and more types of gameplay, but it still only feels like half of a skill line, because half of it is nigh-unusable.
Vampiric Drain: Basically Drain Essence. Lower damage, lower ulti return on the morph, higher cost, same long channel, loss of stun completely, and all for a measely 15 > 23% heal based of missing health.
Blood Frenzy: High health drain for moderate amount of weapon and spell damage, fine on paper but In practice only usable for 1~5 second bursts. At this point if you arent a gankblade Blood Frenzy does not have a point to exist.
Mesmerize: Again, good on paper. It would be seen as even a good stun if it werent for a mixture of unreliable desyncs and the skill requiring a "looking at you" check. More often than not you are wasting magicka hoping this actually pops off.
Scion: "Alright", not the greatest, but serves its purpose. Extremely high ulti cost unless you are a stage 4 Vamp (Even stage 3 is ~280..yikes.) Perfect Scion is pointless with Stage 5 only being active during its duration, and its effective duration only being 18 seconds, as you have 1 second of enter/exit stun on the form where you cant do anything.
Mist form and Eviscerate are the 2 skills in the tree that are either fine or overtuned, which is better than what we had, but should we really set the bar so low..?
Appreciate you saying this. A lot of peeps in this thread need to see your post lol.
It's an improvement objectively, yes, but lets be real here 2 skills and 1 ultimate isn't too hard to "bypass" in terms of improvements.
Design wise? I think the rework is so trash. No NPCs use vampire skills. It feels so out of place when we're meant to be a 'vampire', like the npcs.0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sargesgaming wrote: »
you can turn it off you know, I dont think people understand what toggle means...even stunned just toggle it off when stunned...Dont be dumb and you wont die, simple really
I don't think you can toggle things off while stunned.
Actually you can! I kid you not you actually can turn off Blood Frenzy even while in Heavy crowd control. I did it quite often in PVP when I was experimenting and trying to find a use for Sated Fury. At the end of the day though I ended up not finding the ability worth using all that often. Great for popping before an ultimate, but terrible for a head on fight.Edited by Vevvev on July 7, 2020 3:50AMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭Sargesgaming wrote: »
you can turn it off you know, I dont think people understand what toggle means...even stunned just toggle it off when stunned...Dont be dumb and you wont die, simple really
I don't think you can toggle things off while stunned.
Actually you can! I kid you not you actually can turn off Blood Frenzy even while in Heavy crowd control. I did it quite often in PVP when I was experimenting and trying to find a use for Sated Fury. At the end of the day though I ended up not finding the ability worth using all that often. Great for popping before an ultimate, but terrible for a head on fight.
Wow, that's kind of surprising! Glad they at least did that.
Unfortunately I'm running into the same issues with the ability. Unless you're a nightblade ganker, I don't see any use for this ability.
Now that I look it over, does it seem kind of odd that ZOS made this iteration of vamp more or less for nightblades? At least that is the feel I get from it.
It makes me wonder if this approach would be better:
What if the kind of vampire you turn into/your abilities & passives change depending upon what class you are when you become a vampire? That way it adds in multiple forms of vampirism and is also unique enough that every class can run vampire happily.
Would actually be pretty cool, I feel? Like, if they're going this route with making vampire fit nightblade, why not just make a rendition for every class? Perhaps even with different weaknesses?0 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭Sargesgaming wrote: »
you can turn it off you know, I dont think people understand what toggle means...even stunned just toggle it off when stunned...Dont be dumb and you wont die, simple really
I don't think you can toggle things off while stunned.
Actually you can! I kid you not you actually can turn off Blood Frenzy even while in Heavy crowd control. I did it quite often in PVP when I was experimenting and trying to find a use for Sated Fury. At the end of the day though I ended up not finding the ability worth using all that often. Great for popping before an ultimate, but terrible for a head on fight.
Wow, that's kind of surprising! Glad they at least did that.
Unfortunately I'm running into the same issues with the ability. Unless you're a nightblade ganker, I don't see any use for this ability.
Now that I look it over, does it seem kind of odd that ZOS made this iteration of vamp more or less for nightblades? At least that is the feel I get from it.
It makes me wonder if this approach would be better:
What if the kind of vampire you turn into/your abilities & passives change depending upon what class you are when you become a vampire? That way it adds in multiple forms of vampirism and is also unique enough that every class can run vampire happily.
Would actually be pretty cool, I feel? Like, if they're going this route with making vampire fit nightblade, why not just make a rendition for every class? Perhaps even with different weaknesses?
Lol in our dreams maybe. Personally I wanted them to introduce major health/magicka/stamina steal. Would've been much better to have vamps go back to siphoning life force from their enemies (like they are supposed to do).1 -
JMadFour✭✭✭✭✭I for one, love the new Vampire. It's now my main and I am having a lot of fun with it.
But It's not perfect and it does need a few things changed/tweaked though.
Needs a gap closer. Needs a ranged morph for Eviscerate. those are the two big ones.
Blood Frenzy is just not fun, just replace it with a Bat Swarm-ish Gap Closer
Vampiric Drain needs to do more damage.
Things like that.
But overall, I love being a Vampire now.4 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »When I first tried it last year 2 things seemed really off to me. I needed to feed to become LESS of a vampire and there were only 2 active skills. This overhaul is spot on. I just murdered some chick sweeping a stable bc I was about to drop below stage four, it was super.
It is better with only 1 melee-magicka damage skill and no gapcloser or reliable CC? And most skills not being viable in vet-dungeon PvE at all? (except blood for blood)
Right now the current iteration feels off to me, more so than the last one. Mainly because it looks like they just half-baked what should of been a vampire lord.
That's funny, cuz I vet dungeon Elusive Mist and stay in Stage 3 constantly.
I don't even use Blood For Blood, but Elusive Mist is a mainstay, I use Sated Frenzy on one specific char, and Hypnotize is in my overall toolkit that I slot sometimes.
All for vet and trial content.
From my understanding, you are the exception.
Yea, because a lot of people in the community don't take the time to experiment and see how things work together beyond what they are told by an Alcast build guide.
This game offers way too much choice and too many options to be stuck in the same cookie cutter builds and setups without any sort of outside the box thinking.
The vampire setup - could it be better? Yes. Absolutely it could be. But as it is, it has given new life to my main char, a necro tank, that had wholly stagnated, and allowed me to bring him much closer to my original intention and concept for him, with a fairly unique tank playstyle that has been incredibly fun for group and solo content.
Meanwhile it's also allowed me to create a rather unique DPS build that combines Sated Frenzy with Phoenix set to combo the health drain with an additional burst DPS as well as additional protection.
Am I the exception? Maybe. But I'm having an absolute blast doing it. Just because people don't know how to make it work doesn't mean it's bad design. Even Alcast himself didn't seem to understand with his Vampire build the blatantly obvious combo of Elusive Mist and Strike From Shadows.1 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »When I first tried it last year 2 things seemed really off to me. I needed to feed to become LESS of a vampire and there were only 2 active skills. This overhaul is spot on. I just murdered some chick sweeping a stable bc I was about to drop below stage four, it was super.
It is better with only 1 melee-magicka damage skill and no gapcloser or reliable CC? And most skills not being viable in vet-dungeon PvE at all? (except blood for blood)
Right now the current iteration feels off to me, more so than the last one. Mainly because it looks like they just half-baked what should of been a vampire lord.
That's funny, cuz I vet dungeon Elusive Mist and stay in Stage 3 constantly.
I don't even use Blood For Blood, but Elusive Mist is a mainstay, I use Sated Frenzy on one specific char, and Hypnotize is in my overall toolkit that I slot sometimes.
All for vet and trial content.
From my understanding, you are the exception.
Yea, because a lot of people in the community don't take the time to experiment and see how things work together beyond what they are told by an Alcast build guide.
This game offers way too much choice and too many options to be stuck in the same cookie cutter builds and setups without any sort of outside the box thinking.
The vampire setup - could it be better? Yes. Absolutely it could be. But as it is, it has given new life to my main char, a necro tank, that had wholly stagnated, and allowed me to bring him much closer to my original intention and concept for him, with a fairly unique tank playstyle that has been incredibly fun for group and solo content.
Meanwhile it's also allowed me to create a rather unique DPS build that combines Sated Frenzy with Phoenix set to combo the health drain with an additional burst DPS as well as additional protection.
Am I the exception? Maybe. But I'm having an absolute blast doing it. Just because people don't know how to make it work doesn't mean it's bad design. Even Alcast himself didn't seem to understand with his Vampire build the blatantly obvious combo of Elusive Mist and Strike From Shadows.
Making something work doesn't equal good design. Just because you can get the build to work doesn't make the thematics or the theme or the creativity that went into the skills good.0 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭I for one, love the new Vampire. It's now my main and I am having a lot of fun with it.
But It's not perfect and it does need a few things changed/tweaked though.
Needs a gap closer. Needs a ranged morph for Eviscerate. those are the two big ones.
Blood Frenzy is just not fun, just replace it with a Bat Swarm-ish Gap Closer
Vampiric Drain needs to do more damage.
Things like that.
But overall, I love being a Vampire now.
Thank you, someone who gets it!
New vamp can be seen as fun/liked but also seen as needing improvements to be made more thematically better. Those that think the skill line is absolutely perfect as is are a bit naive from what I can tell. These are the people that are just glad vamp has 5 abilities, most likely.
Vampiric drain needs to be a proper damage/life steal ability, blood frenzy replaced, eviscerate a long range morph? Mmm, that'd be very fun right there.
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ShadowHvo✭✭✭✭✭
✭I miss the lol buttonNighren - The Shadow StrikerLeader of Bloodlines-- EU --
Want to roleplay in elder scrolls online? Check out eso-rp.com5 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I for one, love the new Vampire. It's now my main and I am having a lot of fun with it.
But It's not perfect and it does need a few things changed/tweaked though.
Needs a gap closer. Needs a ranged morph for Eviscerate. those are the two big ones.
Blood Frenzy is just not fun, just replace it with a Bat Swarm-ish Gap Closer
Vampiric Drain needs to do more damage.
Things like that.
But overall, I love being a Vampire now.
Thank you, someone who gets it!
New vamp can be seen as fun/liked but also seen as needing improvements to be made more thematically better. Those that think the skill line is absolutely perfect as is are a bit naive from what I can tell. These are the people that are just glad vamp has 5 abilities, most likely.
Vampiric drain needs to be a proper damage/life steal ability, blood frenzy replaced, eviscerate a long range morph? Mmm, that'd be very fun right there.
So the people who like it are naive? But the people who can't figure out how to use vampire are... ?
I dont think a single person is saying it's "perfect". But vampire has a lot of positives in it's current state and can make for some very fun and successful builds.
I'm sensing some hostile contention from your posts.2 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I for one, love the new Vampire. It's now my main and I am having a lot of fun with it.
But It's not perfect and it does need a few things changed/tweaked though.
Needs a gap closer. Needs a ranged morph for Eviscerate. those are the two big ones.
Blood Frenzy is just not fun, just replace it with a Bat Swarm-ish Gap Closer
Vampiric Drain needs to do more damage.
Things like that.
But overall, I love being a Vampire now.
Thank you, someone who gets it!
New vamp can be seen as fun/liked but also seen as needing improvements to be made more thematically better. Those that think the skill line is absolutely perfect as is are a bit naive from what I can tell. These are the people that are just glad vamp has 5 abilities, most likely.
Vampiric drain needs to be a proper damage/life steal ability, blood frenzy replaced, eviscerate a long range morph? Mmm, that'd be very fun right there.
So the people who like it are naive? But the people who can't figure out how to use vampire are... ?
I dont think a single person is saying it's "perfect". But vampire has a lot of positives in it's current state and can make for some very fun and successful builds.
I'm sensing some hostile contention from your posts.
I'm saying people can like it. But to think it can't be improved is naive. Those that are 100% fine with it as is and don't want/aren't okay with it being improved at all are naive. The people that think this isnt a design/creativity issue also fall under this category. As that is the main complaint on this thread. Claiming we're all upset because we miss free passives and/or can't get the current abilities to work is a naive statement when most of the complaints are about the design choices behind the rework.
But if you like it and agree "yeah, some changes can be made to make it better for everyone" then that's a logical, understandable opinion. Because it's clear a lot of people have issues with the rework. If more people can be made happy without stepping on your toes, there's literally nothing wrong with that?
And also. Those "fun" and "successful" builds are all your opinion. I myself have made a few successful vampire builds, but none of them are fun.
Many people agree with this, but that is just their opinion.
It's fine if you like the skill line, but due to the amount of people making threads and voicing their concerns about it, don't you think that might mean "yeah maybe something is off here"? It's a bit naive of you to assume that because we're complaining we can't get the skills to work too, tbh. Fact of the matter is people have tried a lot.
Also from my understanding: most people want a gap closer and a range morph for eviscerate. This would solve the majority of issues people have with the kit.
Next up would be making perfect scion more unique and maybe editing blood scion to make it less of a bone goliath re-skin. Along with giving elusive mist its 70% move speed buff back. And making vampiric drain a damaging ability again.
None of those ^ changes harm you and only improve the class. So yes, it is naive to see a bunch of people that want this stuff only to go "ah, must be an issue of them not being able to get the skill line to work. Or they just want the old free passives back."Edited by SlimeBro1 on July 7, 2020 4:21PM0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I for one, love the new Vampire. It's now my main and I am having a lot of fun with it.
But It's not perfect and it does need a few things changed/tweaked though.
Needs a gap closer. Needs a ranged morph for Eviscerate. those are the two big ones.
Blood Frenzy is just not fun, just replace it with a Bat Swarm-ish Gap Closer
Vampiric Drain needs to do more damage.
Things like that.
But overall, I love being a Vampire now.
Thank you, someone who gets it!
New vamp can be seen as fun/liked but also seen as needing improvements to be made more thematically better. Those that think the skill line is absolutely perfect as is are a bit naive from what I can tell. These are the people that are just glad vamp has 5 abilities, most likely.
Vampiric drain needs to be a proper damage/life steal ability, blood frenzy replaced, eviscerate a long range morph? Mmm, that'd be very fun right there.
So the people who like it are naive? But the people who can't figure out how to use vampire are... ?
I dont think a single person is saying it's "perfect". But vampire has a lot of positives in it's current state and can make for some very fun and successful builds.
I'm sensing some hostile contention from your posts.
I'm saying people can like it. But to think it can't be improved is naive. Those that are 100% fine with it as is and don't want/aren't okay with it being improved at all are naive.
But if you like it and agree "yeah, some changes can be made to make it better for everyone" then that's a logical, understandable opinion. Because it's clear a lot of people have issues with the rework. If more people can be made happy without stepping on your toes, there's literally nothing wrong with that?
It's not naivety. It's an opinion.
I do think it can be improved upon, but I also think it already is a big improvement.
So many people think that it's useless outside of Blood For Blood, but I see that as a lack of outside the box thinking. Alcast and other build guides haven't found a use, so it must not have a use? I have 2 unique and successful builds that utilize Vampire as a core component of what brings them success. I've been told by people with that lack of foresight that my builds can't be made viable... but I am consistently clearing high end PVE content with them.
I'm not arguing the point that it can or cannot be improved upon. I am arguing the point that it can be very useful and successful as is in top end builds, without relying solely on the BFB spammable, and that the build guides being unable to figure out a use for it does not mean that it is a badly designed skillset.3 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I for one, love the new Vampire. It's now my main and I am having a lot of fun with it.
But It's not perfect and it does need a few things changed/tweaked though.
Needs a gap closer. Needs a ranged morph for Eviscerate. those are the two big ones.
Blood Frenzy is just not fun, just replace it with a Bat Swarm-ish Gap Closer
Vampiric Drain needs to do more damage.
Things like that.
But overall, I love being a Vampire now.
Thank you, someone who gets it!
New vamp can be seen as fun/liked but also seen as needing improvements to be made more thematically better. Those that think the skill line is absolutely perfect as is are a bit naive from what I can tell. These are the people that are just glad vamp has 5 abilities, most likely.
Vampiric drain needs to be a proper damage/life steal ability, blood frenzy replaced, eviscerate a long range morph? Mmm, that'd be very fun right there.
So the people who like it are naive? But the people who can't figure out how to use vampire are... ?
I dont think a single person is saying it's "perfect". But vampire has a lot of positives in it's current state and can make for some very fun and successful builds.
I'm sensing some hostile contention from your posts.
I'm saying people can like it. But to think it can't be improved is naive. Those that are 100% fine with it as is and don't want/aren't okay with it being improved at all are naive.
But if you like it and agree "yeah, some changes can be made to make it better for everyone" then that's a logical, understandable opinion. Because it's clear a lot of people have issues with the rework. If more people can be made happy without stepping on your toes, there's literally nothing wrong with that?
It's not naivety. It's an opinion.
I do think it can be improved upon, but I also think it already is a big improvement.
So many people think that it's useless outside of Blood For Blood, but I see that as a lack of outside the box thinking. Alcast and other build guides haven't found a use, so it must not have a use? I have 2 unique and successful builds that utilize Vampire as a core component of what brings them success. I've been told by people with that lack of foresight that my builds can't be made viable... but I am consistently clearing high end PVE content with them.
I'm not arguing the point that it can or cannot be improved upon. I am arguing the point that it can be very useful and successful as is in top end builds, without relying solely on the BFB spammable, and that the build guides being unable to figure out a use for it does not mean that it is a badly designed skillset.
Opinions can be naive, yeah?
And great, you've managed to make 2 unique builds that work in high end PvE. That doesn't mean the rework is good, I am afraid. How is that you are able to do this yet none, and I mean none, of the build guide creators can? I find that a little strange considering their entire thing is testing and analyzing all builds. Maybe you should start making your own build guides then since you have a knack for thinking of things they can't?
And it is wonderful you've found success with it in high end PvP without relying on just the ulty/BfB
But at the end of the day you're just 1 person. Which makes you the exception. Unless other people spring up with mega unique builds like yourself that have somehow managed to get the skills to work in trials/vet dungeons.
Also small edit: Just because you've had success with certain builds, again, doesn't mean the skill line is fun. Or creative. Which, again, is the main issue people are having with it.Edited by SlimeBro1 on July 7, 2020 4:32PM0 -
luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭This patch is just a huge fest of the "kiss-curse" gimmick but soon the "our ESO standards" nerf hammer will hit them soon enoughPC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk0 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I for one, love the new Vampire. It's now my main and I am having a lot of fun with it.
But It's not perfect and it does need a few things changed/tweaked though.
Needs a gap closer. Needs a ranged morph for Eviscerate. those are the two big ones.
Blood Frenzy is just not fun, just replace it with a Bat Swarm-ish Gap Closer
Vampiric Drain needs to do more damage.
Things like that.
But overall, I love being a Vampire now.
Thank you, someone who gets it!
New vamp can be seen as fun/liked but also seen as needing improvements to be made more thematically better. Those that think the skill line is absolutely perfect as is are a bit naive from what I can tell. These are the people that are just glad vamp has 5 abilities, most likely.
Vampiric drain needs to be a proper damage/life steal ability, blood frenzy replaced, eviscerate a long range morph? Mmm, that'd be very fun right there.
So the people who like it are naive? But the people who can't figure out how to use vampire are... ?
I dont think a single person is saying it's "perfect". But vampire has a lot of positives in it's current state and can make for some very fun and successful builds.
I'm sensing some hostile contention from your posts.
I'm saying people can like it. But to think it can't be improved is naive. Those that are 100% fine with it as is and don't want/aren't okay with it being improved at all are naive.
But if you like it and agree "yeah, some changes can be made to make it better for everyone" then that's a logical, understandable opinion. Because it's clear a lot of people have issues with the rework. If more people can be made happy without stepping on your toes, there's literally nothing wrong with that?
It's not naivety. It's an opinion.
I do think it can be improved upon, but I also think it already is a big improvement.
So many people think that it's useless outside of Blood For Blood, but I see that as a lack of outside the box thinking. Alcast and other build guides haven't found a use, so it must not have a use? I have 2 unique and successful builds that utilize Vampire as a core component of what brings them success. I've been told by people with that lack of foresight that my builds can't be made viable... but I am consistently clearing high end PVE content with them.
I'm not arguing the point that it can or cannot be improved upon. I am arguing the point that it can be very useful and successful as is in top end builds, without relying solely on the BFB spammable, and that the build guides being unable to figure out a use for it does not mean that it is a badly designed skillset.
Opinions can be naive, yeah?
And great, you've managed to make 2 unique builds that work in high end PvE. That doesn't mean the rework is good, I am afraid. How is that you are able to do this yet none, and I mean none, of the build guide creators can? I find that a little strange considering their entire thing is testing and analyzing all builds. Maybe you should start making your own build guides then since you have a knack for thinking of things they can't?
And it is wonderful you've found success with it in high end PvP without relying on just the ulty/BfB
But at the end of the day you're just 1 person. Which makes you the exception. Unless other people spring up with mega unique builds like yourself that have somehow managed to get the skills to work in trials/vet dungeons.
Also small edit: Just because you've had success with certain builds, again, doesn't mean the skill line is fun. Or creative. Which, again, is the main issue people are having with it.
The build guides haven't done anything with them because they are a very narrow minded approach to the game. All these build guide creators have one single way of looking at the game and don't deviate from anything outside of that one sole perspective. Build guides also don't see a use for anything that isn't False God's / Mother's Sorrow / Zaan's.
Alcast didn't even understand that Mist Form procs the Strike From Shadows passive, giving you a 300 boost to weapon and spell damage. Most people I see talking about Vampire don't even understand that Vampire gives you boosts to physical damage as well, and think that the tree is solely for magicka.
You can continue to call me naive all you want, apparently because I have figured out a way to use Vampire to my advantage when others haven't. But your inability to figure out how to use the tree does not make it bad design. And also, if you can't or don't find a way to use it, it is a completely optional line that you don't need to use at all.Edited by amm7sb14_ESO on July 7, 2020 4:44PM4 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm just going to leave my vampire build here.....
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=245130
(This is PVP build btw.)Edited by Vevvev on July 7, 2020 4:54PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why would you waste a skill slot on mist which is just going to eat a GCD(or two?) for a small boost in spell damage when you could just use BfB twice instead and get higher DPS numbers? Just because you can get something to work doesn’t make it optimal. That’s the reason he didn’t mention mist because it’s sub optimal compared to the alternative.
Did you miss the part where BfB killed class identity in vet raids because of how OP the skill is? Enjoy your vampire because the nerf hammer is on the horizon.Edited by Fur_like_snow on July 7, 2020 4:51PM1 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Why would you waste a skill slot on mist which is just going to eat a GCD(or two?) for a small boost in spell damage when you could just use BfB twice instead and get higher DPS numbers? Just because you can get something to work doesn’t make it optimal. That’s the reason he didn’t mention mist because it’s sub optimal compared to the alternative.
Did you miss the part where BfB killed class identity in vet raids because of how OP the skill is? Enjoy your vampire because the nerf hammer is on the horizon.
"Just because it works doesn't make it optimal"
Part of that narrow minded focus I was talking about. Only looking for 1 way to do things, and not accepting anything else.
This game has far too much content and too many choices and options to limit oneself to "one way" of doing things.
If they nerf it they nerf it, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. As it is now, Vampire has been working out great for me. And I dont even use BFB1 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm just going to leave my vampire build here.....
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=245130
(This is PVP build btw.)
No elemental drain so no major spell fracture? Sustain seems rough prob end up gassed in extended fights. plus you’re missing a lot of spell pen Zaan would hit harder with sharpened. Why not potato back bar? Personally I’d run RaT over mist better buffs and pysjic passives. Seems like a build for a large group not for dueling or 1vX.Edited by Fur_like_snow on July 7, 2020 5:04PM1 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »Fur_like_snow wrote: »Why would you waste a skill slot on mist which is just going to eat a GCD(or two?) for a small boost in spell damage when you could just use BfB twice instead and get higher DPS numbers? Just because you can get something to work doesn’t make it optimal. That’s the reason he didn’t mention mist because it’s sub optimal compared to the alternative.
Did you miss the part where BfB killed class identity in vet raids because of how OP the skill is? Enjoy your vampire because the nerf hammer is on the horizon.
"Just because it works doesn't make it optimal"
Part of that narrow minded focus I was talking about. Only looking for 1 way to do things, and not accepting anything else.
This game has far too much content and too many choices and options to limit oneself to "one way" of doing things.
If they nerf it they nerf it, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. As it is now, Vampire has been working out great for me. And I dont even use BFB
You’re free to play whatever build you’d like because as you say the game has a ton of content that doesn’t require optimal builds or even grouping at all.
But once you step into speed running vet trial groups the sub optimal builds go out the window. The game is balanced at the ceiling not the floor and I wouldn’t expect a content creator like Alcast to spend the time creating a 1000 different builds a patch that could “just work”. That’s not the point of his site he gives his thoughts on the current meta it’s you’re choice what skills you slot ultimately.Edited by Fur_like_snow on July 7, 2020 5:19PM1 -
Nova_J✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I for one, love the new Vampire. It's now my main and I am having a lot of fun with it.
But It's not perfect and it does need a few things changed/tweaked though.
Needs a gap closer. Needs a ranged morph for Eviscerate. those are the two big ones.
Blood Frenzy is just not fun, just replace it with a Bat Swarm-ish Gap Closer
Vampiric Drain needs to do more damage.
Things like that.
But overall, I love being a Vampire now.
Thank you, someone who gets it!
New vamp can be seen as fun/liked but also seen as needing improvements to be made more thematically better. Those that think the skill line is absolutely perfect as is are a bit naive from what I can tell. These are the people that are just glad vamp has 5 abilities, most likely.
Vampiric drain needs to be a proper damage/life steal ability, blood frenzy replaced, eviscerate a long range morph? Mmm, that'd be very fun right there.
So the people who like it are naive? But the people who can't figure out how to use vampire are... ?
I dont think a single person is saying it's "perfect". But vampire has a lot of positives in it's current state and can make for some very fun and successful builds.
I'm sensing some hostile contention from your posts.
I'm saying people can like it. But to think it can't be improved is naive. Those that are 100% fine with it as is and don't want/aren't okay with it being improved at all are naive.
But if you like it and agree "yeah, some changes can be made to make it better for everyone" then that's a logical, understandable opinion. Because it's clear a lot of people have issues with the rework. If more people can be made happy without stepping on your toes, there's literally nothing wrong with that?
It's not naivety. It's an opinion.
I do think it can be improved upon, but I also think it already is a big improvement.
So many people think that it's useless outside of Blood For Blood, but I see that as a lack of outside the box thinking. Alcast and other build guides haven't found a use, so it must not have a use? I have 2 unique and successful builds that utilize Vampire as a core component of what brings them success. I've been told by people with that lack of foresight that my builds can't be made viable... but I am consistently clearing high end PVE content with them.
I'm not arguing the point that it can or cannot be improved upon. I am arguing the point that it can be very useful and successful as is in top end builds, without relying solely on the BFB spammable, and that the build guides being unable to figure out a use for it does not mean that it is a badly designed skillset.
Opinions can be naive, yeah?
And great, you've managed to make 2 unique builds that work in high end PvE. That doesn't mean the rework is good, I am afraid. How is that you are able to do this yet none, and I mean none, of the build guide creators can? I find that a little strange considering their entire thing is testing and analyzing all builds. Maybe you should start making your own build guides then since you have a knack for thinking of things they can't?
And it is wonderful you've found success with it in high end PvP without relying on just the ulty/BfB
But at the end of the day you're just 1 person. Which makes you the exception. Unless other people spring up with mega unique builds like yourself that have somehow managed to get the skills to work in trials/vet dungeons.
Also small edit: Just because you've had success with certain builds, again, doesn't mean the skill line is fun. Or creative. Which, again, is the main issue people are having with it.
The build guides haven't done anything with them because they are a very narrow minded approach to the game. All these build guide creators have one single way of looking at the game and don't deviate from anything outside of that one sole perspective. Build guides also don't see a use for anything that isn't False God's / Mother's Sorrow / Zaan's.
Alcast didn't even understand that Mist Form procs the Strike From Shadows passive, giving you a 300 boost to weapon and spell damage. Most people I see talking about Vampire don't even understand that Vampire gives you boosts to physical damage as well, and think that the tree is solely for magicka.
You can continue to call me naive all you want, apparently because I have figured out a way to use Vampire to my advantage when others haven't. But your inability to figure out how to use the tree does not make it bad design. And also, if you can't or don't find a way to use it, it is a completely optional line that you don't need to use at all.
Lmao the mist form toggle is clunky as fack, using mist form for anything outside of a purge isn't really worth it. Blood mist has a shite heal and elusive doesnt even allow you to escape a thing anymore, so if you are saying that you are using mist form mainly for the 300 weapon and spell damage buff you should probably just slot another damaging ability. Just because something works doesnt mean it's good or even working as intended. I can gaurentee you mist form is not saving you or helping you clear anymore content than you had before slotting it.
That's one of my main issues, none of these new skills provide any real positive performance changes. I wanted these changes to have a real effect to my gameplay, I dont want to have to constantly question why tf I have it on my bar when something is infinitely better, I dont want to have to keep telling myself that these changes are so clunky that it's only good for "fun" builds. I want to take these skills seriously, but the fact that there is literally one skill that even does damage, no real dots, a crap heal, and still only one real ult (the other one is hot garbage), and a stun that (when it actually hits) still doesn't do anything outside of stun. Add that to passives that have negatives attached to them for no other reason than forcing some new idea for vamps and arent even thematically correct.
This is nothing but a hot mess to me, I will never be satisfied with this mess they dropped on us, because they can do better, and they know that they can do better. It's crazy what people are satisfied with just because they can put it on their bar smh.
Oh and just because something gives a 3 sec 300 buff to weapon damage doesnt mean it's good for stam toons. Stam characters can literally only benefit from the passives in the skill line lmaoo. Well...... unless you use the mist in pvp as a cheap purge.1 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »I'm just going to leave my vampire build here.....
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=245130
(This is PVP build btw.)
No elemental drain so no major spell fracture? Sustain seems rough prob end up gassed in extended fights. plus you’re missing a lot of spell pen Zaan would hit harder with sharpened. Why not potato back bar? Personally I’d run RaT over mist better buffs and pysjic passives. Seems like a build for a large group not for dueling or 1vX.
I solved sustain with the Combustion passive where every single flame status effect I apply gives me 500 magicka. Burning spellweave allows me to double stack flame status effects on a target so you can imagine how that goes. I do agree with you on the RaT over mistform, but the mistform is actually used to get off the front line when a Zerg is coming in. I don't use it for the buff since the 300 spell and weapon damage is minuscule and doesn't last long enough.
As for no elemental drain that's because I assume an ally is going to apply it to my target, but I've never had issues killing things with this build due to the incredible amount of damage it can put out on a single target. It is more focused on group based PVP, but it has ganking potential with the stage 4 passive I've found out.Edited by Vevvev on July 7, 2020 5:44PMPC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK1 -
Paradisius✭✭✭✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »
The build guides haven't done anything with them because they are a very narrow minded approach to the game. All these build guide creators have one single way of looking at the game and don't deviate from anything outside of that one sole perspective. Build guides also don't see a use for anything that isn't False God's / Mother's Sorrow / Zaan's.
Alcast didn't even understand that Mist Form procs the Strike From Shadows passive, giving you a 300 boost to weapon and spell damage. Most people I see talking about Vampire don't even understand that Vampire gives you boosts to physical damage as well, and think that the tree is solely for magicka.
You can continue to call me naive all you want, apparently because I have figured out a way to use Vampire to my advantage when others haven't. But your inability to figure out how to use the tree does not make it bad design. And also, if you can't or don't find a way to use it, it is a completely optional line that you don't need to use at all.
To chime in on this, build guides dont use much vampire skills because build guides aim for efficiency, if there wasnt a "best" at everything, thered be no point in build guides, no?
Fact of the matter is, Vampirism is not correlating with what is "best" (aside from bfb at stage 1, where sustain is a joke and in most content you are melee anyway)
Does that mean Vampirism needs to be good enough to be in a build guide? No, thats what this rework shyed away from. The issue with mist form (and the reason why they dont reccomend it) is because its a channel that blocks outside healing and you cannot do any other actions. Say for example you slot this as a defensive tool instead of a shield. Well the shield will allow you to still be healed, as well as to continue rotation, where mist locks you into that. It does give a nice weapon/spell damage bonus, I personally use it knowing its not optimal but I want to make Vampirism as good as possible for my builds, but if we look at it as a defensive tool replacement, obviously it wont outshine something like Hardened Ward or Harness Magicka. All this without mentioning the guides reccomend stage 1 Vampirism for least detriments possible. Whereas strike is stage 2.
Overall, I dont think they dont understand, they do understand the interactions of the skills. Its just not optimal over something else. And for a build guide where thousands upon thousands of people frequent, it would make sense to choose something straightforward and optimal. No need for unnecessary complexity. For example, I spent the first 3 weeks of PTS working with Blood Frenzy, Blood Mist, both morphs of the spammable, and Swarming Scion, I found that (After 6.0.3, RIP) Vampirism can be used well, but the complexity required, the high risk of the playstyle does not match the low reward of the results. In sustained fights, Frenzy is just not worth it over a DoT, as they end up providing the same results. That means you can use frenzy and not slack, but its also requires a high level of skill some might not really see as worth it over say, Degeneration or Mystic Orb.
Which is the problem with the rework as a whole, you can make it work, and not slack in the slightest in higher levels of content, but there is a reason people dont recommend it. And that is because the hoops to jump through and the micromanaging is just not worth it to most people. This is also why you dont see general guides involving Vamp, but more solo oriented builds based around Vamp, its an interesting playstyle that falls short due to the "curse" part of their kiss/curse ideology being too extreme.
1 -
amm7sb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »I for one, love the new Vampire. It's now my main and I am having a lot of fun with it.
But It's not perfect and it does need a few things changed/tweaked though.
Needs a gap closer. Needs a ranged morph for Eviscerate. those are the two big ones.
Blood Frenzy is just not fun, just replace it with a Bat Swarm-ish Gap Closer
Vampiric Drain needs to do more damage.
Things like that.
But overall, I love being a Vampire now.
Thank you, someone who gets it!
New vamp can be seen as fun/liked but also seen as needing improvements to be made more thematically better. Those that think the skill line is absolutely perfect as is are a bit naive from what I can tell. These are the people that are just glad vamp has 5 abilities, most likely.
Vampiric drain needs to be a proper damage/life steal ability, blood frenzy replaced, eviscerate a long range morph? Mmm, that'd be very fun right there.
So the people who like it are naive? But the people who can't figure out how to use vampire are... ?
I dont think a single person is saying it's "perfect". But vampire has a lot of positives in it's current state and can make for some very fun and successful builds.
I'm sensing some hostile contention from your posts.
I'm saying people can like it. But to think it can't be improved is naive. Those that are 100% fine with it as is and don't want/aren't okay with it being improved at all are naive.
But if you like it and agree "yeah, some changes can be made to make it better for everyone" then that's a logical, understandable opinion. Because it's clear a lot of people have issues with the rework. If more people can be made happy without stepping on your toes, there's literally nothing wrong with that?
It's not naivety. It's an opinion.
I do think it can be improved upon, but I also think it already is a big improvement.
So many people think that it's useless outside of Blood For Blood, but I see that as a lack of outside the box thinking. Alcast and other build guides haven't found a use, so it must not have a use? I have 2 unique and successful builds that utilize Vampire as a core component of what brings them success. I've been told by people with that lack of foresight that my builds can't be made viable... but I am consistently clearing high end PVE content with them.
I'm not arguing the point that it can or cannot be improved upon. I am arguing the point that it can be very useful and successful as is in top end builds, without relying solely on the BFB spammable, and that the build guides being unable to figure out a use for it does not mean that it is a badly designed skillset.
Opinions can be naive, yeah?
And great, you've managed to make 2 unique builds that work in high end PvE. That doesn't mean the rework is good, I am afraid. How is that you are able to do this yet none, and I mean none, of the build guide creators can? I find that a little strange considering their entire thing is testing and analyzing all builds. Maybe you should start making your own build guides then since you have a knack for thinking of things they can't?
And it is wonderful you've found success with it in high end PvP without relying on just the ulty/BfB
But at the end of the day you're just 1 person. Which makes you the exception. Unless other people spring up with mega unique builds like yourself that have somehow managed to get the skills to work in trials/vet dungeons.
Also small edit: Just because you've had success with certain builds, again, doesn't mean the skill line is fun. Or creative. Which, again, is the main issue people are having with it.
The build guides haven't done anything with them because they are a very narrow minded approach to the game. All these build guide creators have one single way of looking at the game and don't deviate from anything outside of that one sole perspective. Build guides also don't see a use for anything that isn't False God's / Mother's Sorrow / Zaan's.
Alcast didn't even understand that Mist Form procs the Strike From Shadows passive, giving you a 300 boost to weapon and spell damage. Most people I see talking about Vampire don't even understand that Vampire gives you boosts to physical damage as well, and think that the tree is solely for magicka.
You can continue to call me naive all you want, apparently because I have figured out a way to use Vampire to my advantage when others haven't. But your inability to figure out how to use the tree does not make it bad design. And also, if you can't or don't find a way to use it, it is a completely optional line that you don't need to use at all.
Lmao the mist form toggle is clunky as fack, using mist form for anything outside of a purge isn't really worth it. Blood mist has a shite heal and elusive doesnt even allow you to escape a thing anymore, so if you are saying that you are using mist form mainly for the 300 weapon and spell damage buff you should probably just slot another damaging ability. Just because something works doesnt mean it's good or even working as intended. I can gaurentee you mist form is not saving you or helping you clear anymore content than you had before slotting it.
That's one of my main issues, none of these new skills provide any real positive performance changes. I wanted these changes to have a real effect to my gameplay, I dont want to have to constantly question why tf I have it on my bar when something is infinitely better, I dont want to have to keep telling myself that these changes are so clunky that it's only good for "fun" builds. I want to take these skills seriously, but the fact that there is literally one skill that even does damage, no real dots, a crap heal, and still only one real ult (the other one is hot garbage), and a stun that (when it actually hits) still doesn't do anything outside of stun. Add that to passives that have negatives attached to them for no other reason than forcing some new idea for vamps and arent even thematically correct.
This is nothing but a hot mess to me, I will never be satisfied with this mess they dropped on us, because they can do better, and they know that they can do better. It's crazy what people are satisfied with just because they can put it on their bar smh.
Oh and just because something gives a 3 sec 300 buff to weapon damage doesnt mean it's good for stam toons. Stam characters can literally only benefit from the passives in the skill line lmaoo. Well...... unless you use the mist in pvp as a cheap purge.
I 100% disagree that vampire isnt helping me clear content.
It's not helping me clear group content, because there are so many other factors in place with group content, and Vampire is neither a must have benefit nor a hindrance toward completing group content. It is simply an additional option in the toolbox.
It has, however, helped me immensely with solo content. I main a tank, and I have been able to use vampire to give me additional offensive output to clear solo content, whether its world bosses, public dungeons, Imperial City Sewer bosses, solo'ing resources in Cyrodiil or flags in Imperial City, or any number of things I couldn't do before - or could do but were tedious. The offensive benefit from Vampire - and Elusive Mist is part of it but not all of it - has opened up a whole new world of content for my tank main who had otherwise hit a wall.
Whether for solo'ing, or group content, the Vampire setup has helped me develop a build that fits my roleplay concept, better fits my gameplay goals and the type of playstyle i was looking for.
As far a speed runs go? Meh. I have little to 0 interest in speed runs. That isnt "content", it's an achievement for specific accomplishments. For those that love it? Great. But I have 0 interest in it, and I've still cranked out a couple speed runs on my vamp tank. So I'd even disagree that it's a hindrance to that.
Again, I'm not saying it cant be changed or improved.
I'm saying its not bad design just because Alcast doesnt use it.1 -
ThisOnePosts✭✭✭✭✭Vamp for Stamblades is still very viable if you build it properly.
It requires a bit more tweaking imo (and careful selection of what to use/not for what), however that's how it should be imo!
I have tested it plenty both in PvP and all different PvE (trials, dungeons, overland etc..) and find the changes are very fair. No, it won't fit all play-styles but neither does anything. That's the beauty of MMOs, having more build variety is a welcomed fix to the game!
It's one of the best skill-line updates we've seen in quite a while IMO (really since WW was made to be much better).1 -
Phanex✭✭✭They should have just made two sets of Vamp curses and leave it at that . Old virus for the folks who used it as is, and new vamp for folks who want a werewolf feel vamp.
I'm sure people would still complain "I like that part of the new vamp why can't i have that for the old vamp" etc. etc.
Then you got those folks who are like "this wasn't how vamps were in the stand alone games"...you also couldn't walk in the sun without getting hurt too...soooo..yea.
Either way, I never used vamp originally until they made the changes. I kinda like it, but I have no comments on if it's better or worst than the old way.1 -
SlimeBro1✭✭✭✭ThisOnePosts wrote: »Vamp for Stamblades is still very viable if you build it properly.
It requires a bit more tweaking imo (and careful selection of what to use/not for what), however that's how it should be imo!
I have tested it plenty both in PvP and all different PvE (trials, dungeons, overland etc..) and find the changes are very fair. No, it won't fit all play-styles but neither does anything. That's the beauty of MMOs, having more build variety is a welcomed fix to the game!
It's one of the best skill-line updates we've seen in quite a while IMO (really since WW was made to be much better).
But vampire as it stands actually REDUCES build variety (with bfb being the best damage skill in the game atm) and the fact that none of the skills are really that useful?
Even the ulti is kind of overpriced for what it does.
Nothing about this rework screams variety.
But then again, if you yourself think this is the best skill line update ever then that's your opinion. Just know plenty of others disagree with you and want to see the skill line have actual variety and diversity instead of more of the same. (Which more of the same is what it literally is)Edited by SlimeBro1 on July 7, 2020 10:44PM0 -
Wildberryjack✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why do some merchants refuse to interact with my vampires? I hadn't used any vampire abilities for hours but three on the road refused me and I really needed to empty my bags. Ended up having to go all the way back to a city. What crap is this?The purpose of art is washing the dust of daily life off our souls. ~Pablo Picasso0