This update is so many steps backwards

Fawn4287 · July 2020

Proc damage sets and dots directly buffed by Malacaths, every zergling is on magdk with them all doing 10k a second of dots with skoria, grothdar and malubeth proccing non stop. solo and small scale directly nerfed with healing changes and nerfs to sets like troll king and bloodspawn which only aid outnumbered players. Its like 1 step forward every patch for this to take everything 5 steps back. Solo healing was never ever the issue it was always large groups cross healing, which of course is no different. Tanks and healers are now better than ever with everyone having to run a defensive 5 piece instead of 2 damage sets.

Magcro bombing ball groups unaffected which is of course the worst and most obvious pay to win addition to the game. Of course the standard stealth nerfs to ani canceling other mechanical changes to close the skill gap. This updates changes were with met with absolutely nothing but negative feedback, I don’t know why they would go through with them and now it seems the most bread and butter skill for stam, Rally is bugged hitting >6k for a final 20 second tick. A tanky meta is always better than a DOT and proc set one, and Im guessing there will be historical lows when it comes to PvP numbers after this event finishes.

Zahirr · July 2020

That's, unfortunately, what the loudest among us asked for. "Tank Meta" everyone cried, as Nightblades could do 21k damage with two skills. "Nerf Healing", everyone said, as they where not able to instantly kill every single person they ever laid eyes on. Everyone just wanted to have 5 second fights, so they could put it in their Youtube montage that nobody but them will ever watch, just like all those phone videos of family get-togethers

The tank meta was never here. Not as long as I played. It's always been a burst meta. It always has been, and always will be. But this patch is awful. Absolutely awful, and I agree with you every step of the way. I'd rather have a tanky meta, where the fights take a little longer and I can actually FIGHT my opponent, then getting crushed by three procs of grothdar and a fossilize and being dead.

And, probably most importantly, is it killed build diversity. It was a total of 20% reduced healing, and that meant classes and builds that where just scrapping by, are now impossible. Stamina Dragonknight is now all about just crushing your opponent by stacking up dots and leaps. You can't run Fury anymore because no one is tanky enough. Any nightblade build that actually stood their ground and fought, without using invisibility, is next to impossible because these old classes just lack healing. (stamina templar too is taking a hit, but the purge used to be able to outheal my dots, so I'm a bit biased on that). And the classes who really thrive? Necromancer, the cash cow class. Warden, probably I don't know. And Mag Sorc. Funny, how the only dev I've ever seen in Cyrodiil was playing a Magsorc at the time. Dare I say, there might be a reason why Magsorc wasn't nerfed at all this patch?

This patch didn't address the problem with ballgroup healers stacking HOTs like a frat house Jenga tower, it just crippled all of us who don't run in 12 man groups. We shouldn't just nerf healing across the board, we should NERF CERTAIN HEALING SKILLS AND PASSIVES. Because as long as just blanket heals are getting nerfed, Dedicated healers will be fine, Magicka characters will be fine, and all of us stamina people stuck with our vigor are going to have to switch to nightblade or something just to survive without our heals. Just like people are already doing. It's Stamblade, Stamcro, and Magsorc as far as the eye can see in Cyrodiil.

Firstmep · July 2020

On my stamsorc I don't even slot vigor anymore, I'm literally better off with stacking max hp and procs and using bone shield, and no it's not a joke.
On my stamplar I notice that everyone struggles with survival, and my dmg is much higher Beacuse of it, but surviving more than 2-3 players at once is next to impossible without mad kiting and Los play.
Rally returns seemingly random numbers sometimes I get 10-12k heals on a full duration, sometimes it barely hits 4k on the same.
There were some issues with damage mitigation and high healing on certain specs, but guess what, you can still build your stamcro/stamden to just hold block and heal until you have an ult and facetank 10+ players.
MagSorcs are back in full swing both in cp and no cp, I've actually put playing bgs on a hold Beacuse at higher mmr literally every game is at least 40-50% magsorcs just spamming fury for KS and never committing to any fight.
They need to roll back the healing nerf, and take a good look at actually over performing stuff, on my Templar healer I can still easily distribute 10k/sec + heals to my entire team without breaking a sweat.
I still see petsorcss full heal ppl with a single matriarch heal and the list goes on.
Meanwhile the classes that already had bad healing are suffering more than ever.

Xargas13 · July 2020

Don't know why you are against magcros, but let me tell you how it is for us. Unless you are zerging, which I really don't like to do, I prefer to find 1v1 fights, now it is almost impossible. Healing nerf hit me the most, I was in a fight where I was dealing with melee, don't remember the class, but I was about to win, and he just spammed something and got his health back to full, I tried my healing and I just could hear my opponent laugh through the monitor, because my healing was so bad that passive health regen would do more. As for damage, it never been too great, but at least before the patch you could survive, now it's just a race who will spam faster. I said this on other posts and I will say it again. Those who were tanky are still tanky, even doing better, those who lacked tankiness are now destroyed. Those who healed a lot, still healing a lot, those who lacked healing, are useless at it.

In my opinion proc sets never should have been allowed into PvP, it is the first game I've played that they do, it's a PvE thing, I mean, what is the fun of spamming light attack till you get a magic proc that will kill for you? In PvE environment it is good, because you can dish out more damage to the boss, but it won't kill it, so you still have to use your abilities. In PvP proc set alone can kill a player, which is stupid.

So no matter your view why this patch is bad, I agree with you, it is the worst I've seen so far.

katorga · July 2020

Build diversity is great. I think individual players are using the mythics, trying to fit them in, or using different sets trying to compensate fo the healing nerf. Nothing is completely meta yet.

Big groups still have infinite healing, and anecdotally, my death recaps are filled with harmony magcro, magden, magplar when fighting them. I see hardly any DK. I see lots of sorc pets in the big groups, but not a lot of sorc damage on my recaps. Magsorc is so popular with PVE and casuals, you have a high chance of free AP. I know by name (and painful experience) which ones are dangerous.

The same names I've grown to fear over the last 5 years are still there, still wrecking people. It doesn't matter what class they play. StamNB seems to be a particularly strong 1vX class this patch. I've seen some truly hellish ones. They seem almost all to use stamina builds.

Aeternum113 · July 2020

From a NoCP perspective the game is just not fun to play anymore for me personally. The ttk is just too low and the average time spent in an engagement is just too low and the reaction time is non existent.

Some people can build to surpass this issue but will the play style be enjoyable? I like brawling and I like being in a fight longer than the time I spend running from respawn back to the fight.

Just tune the damage down imo, maybe the problem is me, I admit I played over a decade other MMO's with slower ttks and that's the sort of pvp I grew fond with, not 2 shot style pvp either in the giving or receiving end...

Also, nerf sorcs.. it's getting ridiculous now. I wish everyone just rolled a sorc to be able to stay competitive, wouldn't the game be so much more fun? -.- I'm sure at least that would send the devs a message.

Xargas13 · July 2020

Aeternum113 wrote: »

From a NoCP perspective the game is just not fun to play anymore for me personally. The ttk is just too low and the average time spent in an engagement is just too low and the reaction time is non existent.

Some people can build to surpass this issue but will the play style be enjoyable? I like brawling and I like being in a fight longer than the time I spend running from respawn back to the fight.

Just tune the damage down imo, maybe the problem is me, I admit I played over a decade other MMO's with slower ttks and that's the sort of pvp I grew fond with, not 2 shot style pvp either in the giving or receiving end...

Also, nerf sorcs.. it's getting ridiculous now. I wish everyone just rolled a sorc to be able to stay competitive, wouldn't the game be so much more fun? -.- I'm sure at least that would send the devs a message.

Before patch TTK was somewhat fine in BGs, if you knew how, you could survive, it wasn't perfect, but it wasn't, this... The problem as I've heard was in CP, where players were living too long and were way too tanky, but instead of doing the actual tweaks, they just nerfed everything, lazy work in my opinion. I would suggest at least do a different type of nerfs to CP and no CP, since those are two different modes. I don't know who is charge of balancing, but I'm not a fan of his/her work.

Kalantris · July 2020

So I played my first couple battlegrounds on my healer this patch.

Srsly, ZOS. I feel I'm letting my team down when I see my biggest heals critting for 3.5k as 10k skills fly around for a fraction of my mana cost. I can easily hit for 15-18k on my warden instantly using beetles, lethal + poison right, so they land at the same time. I can't do jack about it on my healer, I spam everything I have, use every hot and go mad with breaths of life and I do... nothing. Literally. Not a thing. There's no difference in TTK, no difference in outcome of a fight.

I tried branching out, testing other skils. I tried guarding key targets, but that's just bugged to hell as usual. Guard seems to collect a lot of damage and then just oneshot me at a random point. It constantly bugs my character out, where I can't cast anything after guarding someone until I roll and lose all stamina in the process. I once got killed by guard because my target was hit by a meteor... I got hit for 7k. That means the total damage of the skill was somehow 23k, but my guarded target only lost a thousand or two.

I'm not playing my healer in PvP anymore, I'll just DPS just as everybody else and enjoy the literal [snip] PvP has turned into as I either oneshot my opponent or get oneshot in return.

GREAT JOB.

[edited to remove profanity bypass]

MartiniDaniels · July 2020

I think it is 2-3 weeks before the "leaked" patch notes. I'm in dread of game wide nerfs to all damaging abilities...

Firstmep · July 2020

Aeternum113 wrote: »

From a NoCP perspective the game is just not fun to play anymore for me personally. The ttk is just too low and the average time spent in an engagement is just too low and the reaction time is non existent.

Some people can build to surpass this issue but will the play style be enjoyable? I like brawling and I like being in a fight longer than the time I spend running from respawn back to the fight.

Just tune the damage down imo, maybe the problem is me, I admit I played over a decade other MMO's with slower ttks and that's the sort of pvp I grew fond with, not 2 shot style pvp either in the giving or receiving end...

Also, nerf sorcs.. it's getting ridiculous now. I wish everyone just rolled a sorc to be able to stay competitive, wouldn't the game be so much more fun? -.- I'm sure at least that would send the devs a message.

Yeah I've been playing no cp for years, and now I'm back to cp, as no cp and bgs are just an awful experience.
Procsets are still very good in cp, but in no cp they dominate.
My stamsorc in no cp has 32k hp and I can still easily explode entire groups with azureblight stacking. Talk about carry.

Otiz · July 2020

katorga wrote: »

Build diversity is great. I think individual players are using the mythics, trying to fit them in, or using different sets trying to compensate fo the healing nerf. Nothing is completely meta yet.

Big groups still have infinite healing, and anecdotally, my death recaps are filled with harmony magcro, magden, magplar when fighting them. I see hardly any DK. I see lots of sorc pets in the big groups, but not a lot of sorc damage on my recaps. Magsorc is so popular with PVE and casuals, you have a high chance of free AP. I know by name (and painful experience) which ones are dangerous.

The same names I've grown to fear over the last 5 years are still there, still wrecking people. It doesn't matter what class they play. StamNB seems to be a particularly strong 1vX class this patch. I've seen some truly hellish ones. They seem almost all to use stamina builds.

Honestly I'd argue that build diversity hasn't changed much - but due to the burst, we just cant tell the different between decent builds and great build - people will die all the same

MurderMostFoul · July 2020

katorga wrote: »

Build diversity is great. I think individual players are using the mythics, trying to fit them in, or using different sets trying to compensate fo the healing nerf. Nothing is completely meta yet.

Big groups still have infinite healing, and anecdotally, my death recaps are filled with harmony magcro, magden, magplar when fighting them. I see hardly any DK. I see lots of sorc pets in the big groups, but not a lot of sorc damage on my recaps. Magsorc is so popular with PVE and casuals, you have a high chance of free AP. I know by name (and painful experience) which ones are dangerous.

The same names I've grown to fear over the last 5 years are still there, still wrecking people. It doesn't matter what class they play. StamNB seems to be a particularly strong 1vX class this patch. I've seen some truly hellish ones. They seem almost all to use stamina builds.

I agree, reducing tankiness has opened the door for a lot more builds.

Has the ttk decreased? Yes. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No.

Change your build a bit and be more vigilant when it comes to switching from offensive to defensive play.

In the end, the lower ttk means survival requires more skill. And now, it's harder to be tanky and still have high damage.

I think these are all positive results.

Aeternum113 · July 2020

Firstmep wrote: »

Aeternum113 wrote: »

From a NoCP perspective the game is just not fun to play anymore for me personally. The ttk is just too low and the average time spent in an engagement is just too low and the reaction time is non existent.

Some people can build to surpass this issue but will the play style be enjoyable? I like brawling and I like being in a fight longer than the time I spend running from respawn back to the fight.

Just tune the damage down imo, maybe the problem is me, I admit I played over a decade other MMO's with slower ttks and that's the sort of pvp I grew fond with, not 2 shot style pvp either in the giving or receiving end...

Also, nerf sorcs.. it's getting ridiculous now. I wish everyone just rolled a sorc to be able to stay competitive, wouldn't the game be so much more fun? -.- I'm sure at least that would send the devs a message.

Yeah I've been playing no cp for years, and now I'm back to cp, as no cp and bgs are just an awful experience.
Procsets are still very good in cp, but in no cp they dominate.
My stamsorc in no cp has 32k hp and I can still easily explode entire groups with azureblight stacking. Talk about carry.

I just been to NoCP IC, there were a few small groups mainly composed by sorcs only that were just absolutely destroying every one else. And they barely seem to take any damage. It's just another level.

OrderoftheDarkness · July 2020

Found time to test the new healing in No-CP BG. From my observations, Defile has finally started to create pressure even for Magsorcs. From the point of view of theorycrafting, this is a very thoughtful change.

SodanTok · July 2020

Nah, its improvement over PVP for past year. Unfortunately performance is at worst it ever was.

Fawn4287 · July 2020

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Build diversity is great. I think individual players are using the mythics, trying to fit them in, or using different sets trying to compensate fo the healing nerf. Nothing is completely meta yet.

Big groups still have infinite healing, and anecdotally, my death recaps are filled with harmony magcro, magden, magplar when fighting them. I see hardly any DK. I see lots of sorc pets in the big groups, but not a lot of sorc damage on my recaps. Magsorc is so popular with PVE and casuals, you have a high chance of free AP. I know by name (and painful experience) which ones are dangerous.

The same names I've grown to fear over the last 5 years are still there, still wrecking people. It doesn't matter what class they play. StamNB seems to be a particularly strong 1vX class this patch. I've seen some truly hellish ones. They seem almost all to use stamina builds.

I agree, reducing tankiness has opened the door for a lot more builds.

Has the ttk decreased? Yes. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No.

Change your build a bit and be more vigilant when it comes to switching from offensive to defensive play.

In the end, the lower ttk means survival requires more skill. And now, it's harder to be tanky and still have high damage.

I think these are all positive results.

It simply encourages tankier dot damage builds and forces small groups in to large groups with more healers, gameplay only seems alright because of the thumbless potatos that midyear mayhem brings in to PvP, once they’re gone it will be very boring, dry large group vs large group gameplay in cyro and dot build proc sets in BGs

MurderMostFoul · July 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Build diversity is great. I think individual players are using the mythics, trying to fit them in, or using different sets trying to compensate fo the healing nerf. Nothing is completely meta yet.

Big groups still have infinite healing, and anecdotally, my death recaps are filled with harmony magcro, magden, magplar when fighting them. I see hardly any DK. I see lots of sorc pets in the big groups, but not a lot of sorc damage on my recaps. Magsorc is so popular with PVE and casuals, you have a high chance of free AP. I know by name (and painful experience) which ones are dangerous.

The same names I've grown to fear over the last 5 years are still there, still wrecking people. It doesn't matter what class they play. StamNB seems to be a particularly strong 1vX class this patch. I've seen some truly hellish ones. They seem almost all to use stamina builds.

I agree, reducing tankiness has opened the door for a lot more builds.

Has the ttk decreased? Yes. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No.

Change your build a bit and be more vigilant when it comes to switching from offensive to defensive play.

In the end, the lower ttk means survival requires more skill. And now, it's harder to be tanky and still have high damage.

I think these are all positive results.

It simply encourages tankier dot damage builds and forces small groups in to large groups with more healers, gameplay only seems alright because of the thumbless potatos that midyear mayhem brings in to PvP, once they’re gone it will be very boring, dry large group vs large group gameplay in cyro and dot build proc sets in BGs

Cyro has always been filled with boring zerg v zerg gameplay. That's why I mainly play BGs. And in high MMR BGs, you don't see a lot of players having success by relying on proc sets. Dots are back however. Not to the level they were following their ridiculous buff, but at least solidly viable now. Again, not a bad thing really.

Ariades_swe · July 2020

Great patch

Fawn4287 · July 2020

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Build diversity is great. I think individual players are using the mythics, trying to fit them in, or using different sets trying to compensate fo the healing nerf. Nothing is completely meta yet.

Big groups still have infinite healing, and anecdotally, my death recaps are filled with harmony magcro, magden, magplar when fighting them. I see hardly any DK. I see lots of sorc pets in the big groups, but not a lot of sorc damage on my recaps. Magsorc is so popular with PVE and casuals, you have a high chance of free AP. I know by name (and painful experience) which ones are dangerous.

The same names I've grown to fear over the last 5 years are still there, still wrecking people. It doesn't matter what class they play. StamNB seems to be a particularly strong 1vX class this patch. I've seen some truly hellish ones. They seem almost all to use stamina builds.

I agree, reducing tankiness has opened the door for a lot more builds.

Has the ttk decreased? Yes. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No.

Change your build a bit and be more vigilant when it comes to switching from offensive to defensive play.

In the end, the lower ttk means survival requires more skill. And now, it's harder to be tanky and still have high damage.

I think these are all positive results.

It simply encourages tankier dot damage builds and forces small groups in to large groups with more healers, gameplay only seems alright because of the thumbless potatos that midyear mayhem brings in to PvP, once they’re gone it will be very boring, dry large group vs large group gameplay in cyro and dot build proc sets in BGs

Cyro has always been filled with boring zerg v zerg gameplay. That's why I mainly play BGs. And in high MMR BGs, you don't see a lot of players having success by relying on proc sets. Dots are back however. Not to the level they were following their ridiculous buff, but at least solidly viable now. Again, not a bad thing really.

Skoria and grothdar are run by good 1vX players even without malacath, they would both be meta on a magdk or a magplar especially in BGs

MurderMostFoul · July 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Build diversity is great. I think individual players are using the mythics, trying to fit them in, or using different sets trying to compensate fo the healing nerf. Nothing is completely meta yet.

Big groups still have infinite healing, and anecdotally, my death recaps are filled with harmony magcro, magden, magplar when fighting them. I see hardly any DK. I see lots of sorc pets in the big groups, but not a lot of sorc damage on my recaps. Magsorc is so popular with PVE and casuals, you have a high chance of free AP. I know by name (and painful experience) which ones are dangerous.

The same names I've grown to fear over the last 5 years are still there, still wrecking people. It doesn't matter what class they play. StamNB seems to be a particularly strong 1vX class this patch. I've seen some truly hellish ones. They seem almost all to use stamina builds.

I agree, reducing tankiness has opened the door for a lot more builds.

Has the ttk decreased? Yes. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No.

Change your build a bit and be more vigilant when it comes to switching from offensive to defensive play.

In the end, the lower ttk means survival requires more skill. And now, it's harder to be tanky and still have high damage.

I think these are all positive results.

It simply encourages tankier dot damage builds and forces small groups in to large groups with more healers, gameplay only seems alright because of the thumbless potatos that midyear mayhem brings in to PvP, once they’re gone it will be very boring, dry large group vs large group gameplay in cyro and dot build proc sets in BGs

Cyro has always been filled with boring zerg v zerg gameplay. That's why I mainly play BGs. And in high MMR BGs, you don't see a lot of players having success by relying on proc sets. Dots are back however. Not to the level they were following their ridiculous buff, but at least solidly viable now. Again, not a bad thing really.

Skoria and grothdar are run by good 1vX players even without malacath, they would both be meta on a magdk or a magplar especially in BGs

That's certainly true, I wasn't really referencing monster proc sets, which are prevalent in BGs. But I don't really put them in the same category as 5-piece proc sets. Proc monster sets were common before this patch and are more so now. But that's simply a result of there being few worthwhile alternatives. I wouldn't say most people using them are running builds that rely on procs to do damage, they are just running them because there are so few viable options.

West93 · July 2020

No cp is trash (cyrodiil)

setayco · July 2020

Magicka Necromancer itself is a lazy class design and deserves a few buffs to actual gameplay in pvp besides a gimmicky 20 second self synergy class skill. Blast bones believe it or not is still broken i.e ( if the enemy gets knocked back before blast bones explodes the enemy doesn’t recieve damage, same way with streak, and nightblades shade, ontop of the 50% damage increase not being useful with the new targeting changes it recieved.)
The class spammable is very slow and lowers damage output when trying to Light attack weave due to the skulls making the weapon disappear during animation and the superbly slow travel
Time. In most of every mmo the scythe is used as an execute to reap or harvest souls, in eso’s case its to heal. The healing is very small and is based on hp instead of spell power or weapon damage. The class has 15% extra dot damage with no
True viable dots to apply to an enemy. Oh and animate blastbones is such a beautiful idea to summon 3 blastbones on corpses but it costs 351 ultimate and DOES not scale with spell
Power or weapon damage. It is supposed to be a support skills but what is the purpose of summoning blastbones that do leas than half the tooltip of a single cast. The class passives are nice for tanking but they could be a little better. The only
Thing the class has right now is colossus and gravedigger and its stamina counterpart imo not worth the title of p2w or the price tag.