The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Venomous Smite, Viper's Sting or Deadly Strike?
Aedrion
✭✭✭✭✭
Hey everybody
I've been experimenting with all three on my stamsorc for a while now to see which performs better in PvP but I can't seem to reach a conclusion.
I'm currently using 2 arena weapons, Eternal Vigour and then one of these three sets instead of a monster set but the benefits they offer are hard to test outside actual duels.
The goal is to create a high pressure DoT-build that front-loads itself heavily with a Charge skill that immediately puts people on the defensive. Hence the reliance on DoTs.
Venomous Smite: Offers huge up-front damage at ~850 ticks/s for 10 seconds every 15 seconds in an area. But landing a crit on anything, even unintentionally, will proc this set. This means it'll proc off Hurricane too, and possibly hitting whatever comes closer first. Often these are pets, blastbones or even npcs's. While this set's damage is huge, its proc conditions on stamsorc are unreliable given its 15s internal CD. Also weak versus purge and cleanse spam so Wardens, Templars and some Necro's can negate its damage.
Viper's Sting: Significantly less damage at only ~500 ticks/s for 4 seconds but procs only with melee attacks and thus much easier to choose the target. Cleansing it is rather pointless because it'll just be re-applied 4 seconds later. Also not AoE. This requires I stick on target too, because I need to hit the target in melee every 4 seconds. IC is also equal its duration so no downtime if I manage this. Venomous deals ~8.5k damage every 15 seconds. Viper can deal 10k in 15 seconds.
Deadly Strike: Forgoing a proc-set to boost all my other DoTs also sounds good. Increases damage of (Master Dual Wield) Rending Slashes, Quick Cloak, Hurricane, Weapon Bleed Procs, Dawnbreaker, Merciless Charge and poisons by 20% each. No proc conditions so this is always in effect and +20% is almost Malacath's Band levels of damage boosts. However, it only pays off if all these dots proc and overlap. Requires about 2-3 dots on target to actually outpace a proc-set. Not hard to do but without Rapid Strikes - no bar space - this set might see significant drops in damage the fewer DoTs I can maintain.
Assuming you should pick one of these three, which would you argue for? Before you write down that I should run Azureblight, Draugrkin or any of those sets, I don't have ESO+ nor any DLC dungeons. Nor will I so long as ZoS doesn't fix their game. So for now, purchasable sets or vanilla sets are my only bet.
If you do suggest something, I'd appreciate if you added your logic for it. So I can weigh the options. Thanks!
Edited by Aedrion on June 28, 2020 1:13PM I've been experimenting with all three on my stamsorc for a while now to see which performs better in PvP but I can't seem to reach a conclusion.
I'm currently using 2 arena weapons, Eternal Vigour and then one of these three sets instead of a monster set but the benefits they offer are hard to test outside actual duels.
The goal is to create a high pressure DoT-build that front-loads itself heavily with a Charge skill that immediately puts people on the defensive. Hence the reliance on DoTs.
Venomous Smite: Offers huge up-front damage at ~850 ticks/s for 10 seconds every 15 seconds in an area. But landing a crit on anything, even unintentionally, will proc this set. This means it'll proc off Hurricane too, and possibly hitting whatever comes closer first. Often these are pets, blastbones or even npcs's. While this set's damage is huge, its proc conditions on stamsorc are unreliable given its 15s internal CD. Also weak versus purge and cleanse spam so Wardens, Templars and some Necro's can negate its damage.
Viper's Sting: Significantly less damage at only ~500 ticks/s for 4 seconds but procs only with melee attacks and thus much easier to choose the target. Cleansing it is rather pointless because it'll just be re-applied 4 seconds later. Also not AoE. This requires I stick on target too, because I need to hit the target in melee every 4 seconds. IC is also equal its duration so no downtime if I manage this. Venomous deals ~8.5k damage every 15 seconds. Viper can deal 10k in 15 seconds.
Deadly Strike: Forgoing a proc-set to boost all my other DoTs also sounds good. Increases damage of (Master Dual Wield) Rending Slashes, Quick Cloak, Hurricane, Weapon Bleed Procs, Dawnbreaker, Merciless Charge and poisons by 20% each. No proc conditions so this is always in effect and +20% is almost Malacath's Band levels of damage boosts. However, it only pays off if all these dots proc and overlap. Requires about 2-3 dots on target to actually outpace a proc-set. Not hard to do but without Rapid Strikes - no bar space - this set might see significant drops in damage the fewer DoTs I can maintain.
Assuming you should pick one of these three, which would you argue for? Before you write down that I should run Azureblight, Draugrkin or any of those sets, I don't have ESO+ nor any DLC dungeons. Nor will I so long as ZoS doesn't fix their game. So for now, purchasable sets or vanilla sets are my only bet.
If you do suggest something, I'd appreciate if you added your logic for it. So I can weigh the options. Thanks!
4
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rumple9✭✭✭✭✭
✭Smite - it works well with new moon acolyte or levithan set or Mechanical Acuity. Does far more damage than viper and its aoe damage too.
Deadly is a pretty rubbish set - dots are no good for pvp, they can be easily out healed or purged2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Deadly strikes is awesome. It might look not that good on paper, but in practice it is highest damage possible for your dots, bleeds and channels.3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Smite - it works well with new moon acolyte or levithan set or Mechanical Acuity. Does far more damage than viper and its aoe damage too.
Deadly is a pretty rubbish set - dots are no good for pvp, they can be easily out healed or purged
So dots can be purged, but smite with huge cooldown can't be? Interesting logic.3 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Smite - it works well with new moon acolyte or levithan set or Mechanical Acuity. Does far more damage than viper and its aoe damage too.
Deadly is a pretty rubbish set - dots are no good for pvp, they can be easily out healed or purged
So dots can be purged, but smite with huge cooldown can't be? Interesting logic.
This game really needs some sort of ''purge fatique''.3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Smite - it works well with new moon acolyte or levithan set or Mechanical Acuity. Does far more damage than viper and its aoe damage too.
Deadly is a pretty rubbish set - dots are no good for pvp, they can be easily out healed or purged
So dots can be purged, but smite with huge cooldown can't be? Interesting logic.
This game really needs some sort of ''purge fatique''.
I must admit, with torc/eternal vigor + bewitched skulls cleanse potential on my stamplar just reaches absurd level. Even magsorcs become salty, when you just remove all their potential combo with one click 5 times in a row... Smite users simply turn around and run (mostly stamblades from what I saw).
So I agree some cleanse cooldown should be added, like only once per 12 seconds can be made or something like that.1 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Smite is useless in CP pvp. Like I honestly don't care if it's on me.looks strong on paper, but it doesn't work that well.
Can see it being a lot better in no CP though.1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Smite - it works well with new moon acolyte or levithan set or Mechanical Acuity. Does far more damage than viper and its aoe damage too.
Deadly is a pretty rubbish set - dots are no good for pvp, they can be easily out healed or purged
So dots can be purged, but smite with huge cooldown can't be? Interesting logic.
This game really needs some sort of ''purge fatique''.
I must admit, with torc/eternal vigor + bewitched skulls cleanse potential on my stamplar just reaches absurd level. Even magsorcs become salty, when you just remove all their potential combo with one click 5 times in a row... Smite users simply turn around and run (mostly stamblades from what I saw).
So I agree some cleanse cooldown should be added, like only once per 12 seconds can be made or something like that.
Why, when you spend magicka/5-piece set, and cleanse is essentially just another form of damage reduction except it's limited to DoTs and persistent negative effects?
0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Smite - it works well with new moon acolyte or levithan set or Mechanical Acuity. Does far more damage than viper and its aoe damage too.
Deadly is a pretty rubbish set - dots are no good for pvp, they can be easily out healed or purged
So dots can be purged, but smite with huge cooldown can't be? Interesting logic.
This game really needs some sort of ''purge fatique''.
I must admit, with torc/eternal vigor + bewitched skulls cleanse potential on my stamplar just reaches absurd level. Even magsorcs become salty, when you just remove all their potential combo with one click 5 times in a row... Smite users simply turn around and run (mostly stamblades from what I saw).
So I agree some cleanse cooldown should be added, like only once per 12 seconds can be made or something like that.
Why, when you spend magicka/5-piece set, and cleanse is essentially just another form of damage reduction except it's limited to DoTs and persistent negative effects?
Because it completely shut downs a lot of builds, especially in CP, where you need to go on some sacrifices with dot build, i.e. you must spend points on traumaturge and you must sacrifice slots to place dots in them. I think that hard counters is bad thing, and well with new sets ER, or maybe even "inefficient purge" on other classes might become such hard counter.
And eternal vigor at least have downsides like lack of damage bonuses. But torc has none. Just backbar CA, Stuhn's or master's bow and you will have both damage and sustain.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Smite - it works well with new moon acolyte or levithan set or Mechanical Acuity. Does far more damage than viper and its aoe damage too.
Deadly is a pretty rubbish set - dots are no good for pvp, they can be easily out healed or purged
So dots can be purged, but smite with huge cooldown can't be? Interesting logic.
This game really needs some sort of ''purge fatique''.
I must admit, with torc/eternal vigor + bewitched skulls cleanse potential on my stamplar just reaches absurd level. Even magsorcs become salty, when you just remove all their potential combo with one click 5 times in a row... Smite users simply turn around and run (mostly stamblades from what I saw).
So I agree some cleanse cooldown should be added, like only once per 12 seconds can be made or something like that.
Why, when you spend magicka/5-piece set, and cleanse is essentially just another form of damage reduction except it's limited to DoTs and persistent negative effects?
Because it completely shut downs a lot of builds, especially in CP, where you need to go on some sacrifices with dot build, i.e. you must spend points on traumaturge and you must sacrifice slots to place dots in them. I think that hard counters is bad thing, and well with new sets ER, or maybe even "inefficient purge" on other classes might become such hard counter.
And eternal vigor at least have downsides like lack of damage bonuses. But torc has none. Just backbar CA, Stuhn's or master's bow and you will have both damage and sustain.
So, somehow because stacking OP gear that ZOS introduced this patch, it means purify needs a nerf?
I disagree because purify is needed to counter defile, which is so OP this patch its a joke. Want to talk about builds being shut down? Defile shuts down every build out there, except ones that can use cleanse, and even then depending on the source of defile you can keep it on them until they die.
Unless you get defile immunity for the same duration, that's a nope from me.
As for builds that decide to only slot DoTs, that's their problem; If you seriously choose to not slot a mix of damage, somewhere you have to be ineffective. NBs that simply slot all direct damage get countered in a single dodge roll, how is cleanse any different?
Because on stamplar it happens to use an off-resource pool you can keep up easily because you have no other use for it? That's a strength of the class that's been amplified by an OP 1-piece of gear, not the mechanic.
Also, I don't see how giving DoT builds a free pass for any amount of time is fair and balanced, esp. with the strength of some of these proc sets and the fact that cloak's suppression of DoTs would simply be further favorable versus cleanse than it is now.
If anything, ZOS should focus on adjusting the mythics instead of core game mechanics that no one cared to complain about before the mythics were even introduced. Everyone knew mythics would break the game, and now you are simply enjoying it until ZOS wakes up from their slumber and decides that no matter how they try to fit them on a spreadsheet, three of them are simply broken OP.2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Smite - it works well with new moon acolyte or levithan set or Mechanical Acuity. Does far more damage than viper and its aoe damage too.
Deadly is a pretty rubbish set - dots are no good for pvp, they can be easily out healed or purged
So dots can be purged, but smite with huge cooldown can't be? Interesting logic.
This game really needs some sort of ''purge fatique''.
I must admit, with torc/eternal vigor + bewitched skulls cleanse potential on my stamplar just reaches absurd level. Even magsorcs become salty, when you just remove all their potential combo with one click 5 times in a row... Smite users simply turn around and run (mostly stamblades from what I saw).
So I agree some cleanse cooldown should be added, like only once per 12 seconds can be made or something like that.
Why, when you spend magicka/5-piece set, and cleanse is essentially just another form of damage reduction except it's limited to DoTs and persistent negative effects?
Because it completely shut downs a lot of builds, especially in CP, where you need to go on some sacrifices with dot build, i.e. you must spend points on traumaturge and you must sacrifice slots to place dots in them. I think that hard counters is bad thing, and well with new sets ER, or maybe even "inefficient purge" on other classes might become such hard counter.
And eternal vigor at least have downsides like lack of damage bonuses. But torc has none. Just backbar CA, Stuhn's or master's bow and you will have both damage and sustain.
So, somehow because stacking OP gear that ZOS introduced this patch, it means purify needs a nerf?
I disagree because purify is needed to counter defile, which is so OP this patch its a joke. Want to talk about builds being shut down? Defile shuts down every build out there, except ones that can use cleanse, and even then depending on the source of defile you can keep it on them until they die.
Unless you get defile immunity for the same duration, that's a nope from me.
As for builds that decide to only slot DoTs, that's their problem; If you seriously choose to not slot a mix of damage, somewhere you have to be ineffective. NBs that simply slot all direct damage get countered in a single dodge roll, how is cleanse any different?
Because on stamplar it happens to use an off-resource pool you can keep up easily because you have no other use for it? That's a strength of the class that's been amplified by an OP 1-piece of gear, not the mechanic.
Also, I don't see how giving DoT builds a free pass for any amount of time is fair and balanced, esp. with the strength of some of these proc sets and the fact that cloak's suppression of DoTs would simply be further favorable versus cleanse than it is now.
If anything, ZOS should focus on adjusting the mythics instead of core game mechanics that no one cared to complain about before the mythics were even introduced. Everyone knew mythics would break the game, and now you are simply enjoying it until ZOS wakes up from their slumber and decides that no matter how they try to fit them on a spreadsheet, three of them are simply broken OP.
Well, I am against then nerfs of course and mostly agree with you arguments. But there is such spec as stamDK, and I am convinced that stamDK can do nothing against balanced templar. Of course, there might be significant difference in player skill, or lag spike, but under comparable conditions, stamDK can't do anything with standard meta build against meta templar. All the d-swings when dots are purged can be easily dodged/blocked/outhealed even after healing nerf. And leaping on more or less experienced target higher then 70% HP is just waste of ult.0