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Counters to stamcro
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Fawn4287
Not sure how on topic that is. Lets just pretend this is a thread about how to defeat strong opponents that doesn't involve nerfing them.
ZoS nerfed all healing not cross healing because that is fair. And people who think they are 1vXers complain and don't see how actually 20% reduced healing from themselves on themselves is actually an advantage over the other guy, in a large group, who is receiving 20% less healing from like 3 people. The fact is some people can't run into a group of enemies and live. That's like... the epitome of balance. That's like literally the definition. 2>1
No that's not fair and it's not balance. You don't achieve balance with sweeping nerfs across the board to address specific problems. And no, a 20% healing nerf across the board doesn't hurt groups more than solo players. That's not how PVP works.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Honestly the only counter is speed. You can use speed to get away from blastbones and their combo...
Still stand by my statement this patch is terrible for balance though.0 -
OBJnoob✭✭✭✭✭
✭@pieratsos Well that's fine bud cuz I've never been the one to come here and complain or ask for sweeping changes to anything. Cuz I just roll with the punches and perform relatively well patch after patch. [snip[
[Edited post to remove Baiting]
Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 26, 2020 4:54PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@pieratsos Well that's fine bud cuz I've never been the one to come here and complain or ask for sweeping changes to anything. Cuz I just roll with the punches and perform relatively well patch after patch. [snip]
Except it's not about 3 people beating 1 person. It's not even about how well you, me or anyone else performs this patch. It's about a general discussion about balance.
[snip]
I made a simple combat related post about how sweeping nerfs do not address specific problems but in fact make them worse. This comes from "people like me" who played the game since launch and actually understand a thing or two about balance cause we have actually seen dumb changes like this before that don't achieve anything other than dumbing down combat and we got tired of it and feel frustrated because the game used to be so much better and has the potential to put all other games to shame.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 26, 2020 4:56PM0 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭My counter is to set my warden bear in front of the bank. Can't kill anyone if they can't get their gear on.PvP needs more love.1 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭You want an easy counter to necro defile? Play a class with a cleanse, roll in a group with a magplar healer, play a magsorc, play a class with heavy excessive healing like magblade or warden.1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You want an easy counter to necro defile? Play a class with a cleanse, roll in a group with a magplar healer, play a magsorc, play a class with heavy excessive healing like magblade or warden.
I think it happens too often to cleanse it non-stop... overall, I tried pirate skeleton and simply rolling/blocking/kiting before it procs and then turning around for offensive window. Set feels pretty broken though sometimes it backfires like proccing just a second before your rally was going off.
And yep, replacing balorgh with pirate skeleton you immediately get that potato-ish feeling when you are super tanky, but your damage is kinda meh.
Also it seems like set is always up and procs on cooldown, so you are under permanent defile with small window to heal up back to full... I wish I had shields
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katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS made defile stronger by nerfing solo healing and refusing to nerf the ultimate PvP crutch which is cross healing, theres still nothing that beats a magplar dropping an 11k BoL on someone else, but unfortunately people will screech if group play is nerfed as if the ability to stack combined damage with no downside, at least the old fury was sort of a direct buff which countered dot builds and Xv1
How is group play "crutching"? Jeez. That is the entire point of an mmo.
The irony is the most powerful build isn't some "look at me" 1xX dps build, it is a support build that is magnifying the impact of the team.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS made defile stronger by nerfing solo healing and refusing to nerf the ultimate PvP crutch which is cross healing, theres still nothing that beats a magplar dropping an 11k BoL on someone else, but unfortunately people will screech if group play is nerfed as if the ability to stack combined damage with no downside, at least the old fury was sort of a direct buff which countered dot builds and Xv1
How is group play "crutching"? Jeez. That is the entire point of an mmo.
The irony is the most powerful build isn't some "look at me" 1xX dps build, it is a support build that is magnifying the impact of the team.
It really feels like you answered your own question. Good thing the smart heals and purges that require no targeting is more powerful than a guy fighting outnumbered having to provide his own heals, position, and target someone. The healer also doesnt have to worry about penetration in their build either, nor crit resist of their target. Its braindead easy.Edited by technohic on June 26, 2020 10:49PM2 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS made defile stronger by nerfing solo healing and refusing to nerf the ultimate PvP crutch which is cross healing, theres still nothing that beats a magplar dropping an 11k BoL on someone else, but unfortunately people will screech if group play is nerfed as if the ability to stack combined damage with no downside, at least the old fury was sort of a direct buff which countered dot builds and Xv1
How is group play "crutching"? Jeez. That is the entire point of an mmo.
The irony is the most powerful build isn't some "look at me" 1xX dps build, it is a support build that is magnifying the impact of the team.
The support build can’t kill anything by himself but the 1vX build is crafted for fighting multiple players. Imagine showing up to a BG match in a support build with no DPS from your teammates. At least a single DPS has the potential for greatness outside the comfort of a group. Forget about the guy fighting his heart out because the smart heals and proc sets that’s the real deal.Edited by Fur_like_snow on June 26, 2020 10:51PM1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS made defile stronger by nerfing solo healing and refusing to nerf the ultimate PvP crutch which is cross healing, theres still nothing that beats a magplar dropping an 11k BoL on someone else, but unfortunately people will screech if group play is nerfed as if the ability to stack combined damage with no downside, at least the old fury was sort of a direct buff which countered dot builds and Xv1
How is group play "crutching"? Jeez. That is the entire point of an mmo.
The irony is the most powerful build isn't some "look at me" 1xX dps build, it is a support build that is magnifying the impact of the team.
It really feels like you answered your own question. Good thing the smart heals and purges that require no targeting is more powerful than a guy fighting outnumbered having to provide his own heals, position, and target someone. The healer also doesnt have to worry about penetration in their build either, nor crit resist of their target. Its braindead easy.
You want 1v1 self sufficiency, duel. A group of 2 is more than 2x as powerful as 1. 4 is more than 2x as powerful as 2. And so on. A coordinated group magnifies that disparity even more. No way around it. Numbers is an un-nerfable advantage. It opens up build diversity if you don't have to build for self sufficiency, and can lead to some nasty setups. The team covers the gaps, and can build to extremes.
My gripe is that the way the classes are setup, you don't give anything up to have damage, tankiness, or heals. In most games I've played in the past, the healer "class" lacks a damage kit, or it has to spec far enough into a healing tree so that sacrifices capability in the damage or tank trees. In ESO, you do it all, all the time.2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS made defile stronger by nerfing solo healing and refusing to nerf the ultimate PvP crutch which is cross healing, theres still nothing that beats a magplar dropping an 11k BoL on someone else, but unfortunately people will screech if group play is nerfed as if the ability to stack combined damage with no downside, at least the old fury was sort of a direct buff which countered dot builds and Xv1
How is group play "crutching"? Jeez. That is the entire point of an mmo.
The irony is the most powerful build isn't some "look at me" 1xX dps build, it is a support build that is magnifying the impact of the team.
It really feels like you answered your own question. Good thing the smart heals and purges that require no targeting is more powerful than a guy fighting outnumbered having to provide his own heals, position, and target someone. The healer also doesnt have to worry about penetration in their build either, nor crit resist of their target. Its braindead easy.
You want 1v1 self sufficiency, duel. A group of 2 is more than 2x as powerful as 1. 4 is more than 2x as powerful as 2. And so on. A coordinated group magnifies that disparity even more. No way around it. Numbers is an un-nerfable advantage. It opens up build diversity if you don't have to build for self sufficiency, and can lead to some nasty setups. The team covers the gaps, and can build to extremes.
My gripe is that the way the classes are setup, you don't give anything up to have damage, tankiness, or heals. In most games I've played in the past, the healer "class" lacks a damage kit, or it has to spec far enough into a healing tree so that sacrifices capability in the damage or tank trees. In ESO, you do it all, all the time.
It's a different game. My problem would be that while numbers will ALWAYS have an advantage; this game provides mechanics that make it even more so in all support abilities require no targeting while offense does with terrible targeting system. Then HOTs stack with only an ultimate in negate to stop it, while DOTs are removed instantly for several people with 1 push of a button from 1 person and its instant with no cooldown
That's what we're talking about here. There is an innate advantage of numbers but made worse by poor designEdited by technohic on June 26, 2020 11:31PM2 -
EtTuBrutus✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »EtTuBrutus wrote: »If youre stamina your best bet is ensuring your healing is always running and blocking thier combo as all necros combo thier ults with bb. Nearly every 1v1 necro is built identical in terms of how they damage opponents, very similar to sorcs. Defensive stun for your rally if you don't block the combo.
Yes, but problem is that they can make combo initiation ~ every 4 seconds and it cost them like nothing, while how much it will cost you to block-heal through that under major defile? Ugh, times more. Imo, block-heal is not an option here... maybe for stamDK with fragmenting it will work, but not for others.
I mean, that's your only option other than taking it to the face and having to heal more. The point of blocking the combo makes it so you can recover with less cost/ time and go back to offense. They'll only do that combo every 4 seconds if you're always in defense. The active defense against it is blocking the combo attack. I never said anything about block healing.
It's certainly not a hard counter, but in conjunction with keeping up your hots and applying pressure it's fine.Edited by EtTuBrutus on June 29, 2020 12:33AM0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭EtTuBrutus wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »EtTuBrutus wrote: »If youre stamina your best bet is ensuring your healing is always running and blocking thier combo as all necros combo thier ults with bb. Nearly every 1v1 necro is built identical in terms of how they damage opponents, very similar to sorcs. Defensive stun for your rally if you don't block the combo.
Yes, but problem is that they can make combo initiation ~ every 4 seconds and it cost them like nothing, while how much it will cost you to block-heal through that under major defile? Ugh, times more. Imo, block-heal is not an option here... maybe for stamDK with fragmenting it will work, but not for others.
I mean, that's your only option other than taking it to the face and having to heal more. The point of blocking the combo makes it so you can recover with less cost/ time and go back to offense. They'll only do that combo every 4 seconds if you're always in defense. The active defense against it is blocking the combo attack. I never said anything about block healing.
It's certainly not a hard counter, but in conjunction with keeping up your hots and applying pressure it's fine.
Funniest thing, after I added some of the things discussed here to my build/rotation, I didn't met a single hardcore stamcro in 10 hours, so I can't even test them properly >< they just vanished0
