Staggering how bad the PVP is

spurned · June 2020

A warden can heal half of his max health (not missing) while dropping 4k deep fissures. And since healing goes hand in hand with tankiness they can't be scratched either. Abusers of the healer+tank+dps combo were wailing that the promised nerf would make the healing "role" obsolete. And it did... for the classes that are not inherently healers. Keep in mind that I'm talking about BGs here and, granted, 3.5k wep damage unbuffed is not the best. I could sacrifice some resistances to add a couple hundreds more but you can't really burst a healer while ironically that route would leave me vulnerable to their offence. Or I just get pealed by their group.
And yes I factored in my lack of "gid gudness". But if it takes 3 players from my team, with high CP - an indicator of decent play time, 5-8 seconds to bring down a healer... Sometimes they still managing to take one of us with them, then I urge those responsible for the PVP in this game to tinker, test and adjust more.
Very off putting MMO elements implemented in a very enjoyable universe.

spurned · June 2020

AMeanOne wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Redundant, since I've already went over the obligatory "git gud" comment. If after firing up the ol' synapses the best you can come up is a variation of that, your friends are probably sick of hearing back their own jokes from you.

Atherakhia · June 2020

spurned wrote: »

AMeanOne wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Redundant, since I've already went over the obligatory "git gud" comment. If after firing up the ol' synapses the best you can come up is a variation of that, your friends are probably sick of hearing back their own jokes from you.

People are fanbois and unable to accept reality. PvP in this game is bottom of the barrel. I have no idea what it was like in the olden days as I've only been playing about 6 months. But the reason I'm playing this is because there wasn't much else available that I hadn't already tried and grown bored with. When that isn't the case, I'll be gone as this game is a sinking ship for those who enjoy PvP.

spurned · June 2020

Atherakhia wrote: »

spurned wrote: »

AMeanOne wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Redundant, since I've already went over the obligatory "git gud" comment. If after firing up the ol' synapses the best you can come up is a variation of that, your friends are probably sick of hearing back their own jokes from you.

People are fanbois and unable to accept reality. PvP in this game is bottom of the barrel. I have no idea what it was like in the olden days as I've only been playing about 6 months. But the reason I'm playing this is because there wasn't much else available that I hadn't already tried and grown bored with. When that isn't the case, I'll be gone as this game is a sinking ship for those who enjoy PvP.

Honestly, words have never resonated with me so much.
It's still baffling how my stats are catching up to that of people who play this game for a living yet I see no improvement when dealing with the aforementioned classes and builds. Reminds me of asian MMOs where undying healing and magical heavy hitting archetypes reign supreme. And I see the pattern of no longer separating the two making its way in ESO as well. I guess there is the exception of stamina warden, which honestly isn't my cup of tea. So if the meta, which weighs heavily in one direction, is not my thing, too bad for me.

DTAmoral · June 2020

spurned wrote: »

Abusers of the healer+tank+dps combo were wailing that the promised nerf would make the healing "role" obsolete.

Most people that play healers are not always just healing. For example, Templars are usually gonna fit Synergys on their builds in the form of Supernova, and Mystic Orbs. They are healers yes, but during pushes and fights they will drop novas, and synergys to help dps dps. Wardens will also do similar, and they provide the resistance buff. Sorcs have fat heals still, and they provide large amounts of CC, and huge burst heal on the twilight.

That is just the support side of things. You are always going to have players with huge damage, and fat heals.

The healing role will never be obsolete even if healing has been nerfed. All this amounts to is a learn to play situation.

butterrum222 · June 2020

L2snipe spam?

katorga · June 2020

I read this as "people don't play exactly the way I want them to play to allow me and my buddies to kill them instantly."

Why should a healer build be easy to kill with zero losses on your side?

Xargas13 · June 2020

Meh, I had fun before Greymoor, now PvP is totally crap, they didn't fix anything, tanky players are still tanky, and those who lacked tankiness are destroyed. Those who healed a lot, still healing a lot, those who didn't heal a lot, became useless. You can farm proc sets and blast people, but where is the fun in killing by proc? I wan't to use my abilities, not just spam light attack in order to summon magic proc that will kill for me. I took a break from the game, because this game, became MMOFPS with abilities, I'm playing a game like that now too, but at least there, it was intended and balanced around that. Here? it's a private WoW server when it comes to PvP. Checking forums from time to time to check if there are changes, I'm not holding my breath, but I like the game, it's awesome, but not PvP....

spurned · June 2020

katorga wrote: »

I read this as "people don't play exactly the way I want them to play to allow me and my buddies to kill them instantly."

Why should a healer build be easy to kill with zero losses on your side?

Ironic. Also, a healer build should not only win by default in a 1v1 but also hold off an entire team?

spurned · June 2020

DTAmoral wrote: »

Most people that play healers are not always just healing. For example, Templars are usually gonna fit Synergys on their builds in the form of Supernova, and Mystic Orbs. They are healers yes, but during pushes and fights they will drop novas, and synergys to help dps dps. Wardens will also do similar, and they provide the resistance buff. Sorcs have fat heals still, and they provide large amounts of CC, and huge burst heal on the twilight.

That is just the support side of things. You are always going to have players with huge damage, and fat heals.

The healing role will never be obsolete even if healing has been nerfed. All this amounts to is a learn to play situation.

No synergies were needed to win outnumbered fights when it came to those particular classes and builds. But factor in those as well and the team that has someone like that will get carried. As for the players with huge damage and fat heals, I find it imbalanced that well kitted classes, most often the magicka variants, get peak performance across the board.

Xargas13 wrote: »

tanky players are still tanky, and those who lacked tankiness are destroyed. Those who healed a lot, still healing a lot, those who didn't heal a lot, became useless.

Don't think anybody else can summarise PVP better than this. I'm guessing there is not much of an uproar because generally MMO players enjoy the aesthetic of the classes that are currently OP.

Kadoin · June 2020

Well you'll be happy to know that not only I, but many others consider this the WORST PVP PATCH EVER for balance. There's no sugar coating it.

ZOS went after heals overall , when that wasn't the problem. They needed to nerf:

HP% heals, damage reduction, purify, and the auto-cleanse on warden.

Cleanse is ultimately a form of damage reduction and also the most valuable, it should not be costing nothing on warden to use and/or should at least require a cast to activate.

But no, ZOS doesn't listen and they wanted to push an overall heal nerf, despite the huge disparity in healing between classes, and people are surprised the disparity is even higher?

The kings of PvP are classes that have defile and damage reduction baked in, with heals -- in other words necro and warden, and to a lesser extent, sorc if you build for it.

If you aren't one of those three classes then you are at an inherent disadvantage -- because mathematically and build-wise they simply have more than you do on any other class in terms of buffs and debuffs where pvp is concerned and/or damage.

What ZOS should have done was target major protection, target matriarch heal (a heal that is essentially what the old Breath of Life was that got nerfed because it was OP, and yet it also heals more than Breath of Life can -- ZOS Logic on display), target purify spam making ball groups invincible, and target some of these proc sets that heal far too much.

Instead they simply reduced healing across the board and then introduced MORE proc sets that heal, and increased the healing done by proc sets. How logical was that and how surprised is anyone to see balance is far worse than before?

Anotherone773 · June 2020

I cant take pvp seriously in this game. Its just to messed up. I do pvp but basically do it as a minigame. Since Greymoor ive been in BGS with players who are getting up to 65 kills now per match and the previous high ive seen was just below 30. I should note im not even including assists in this, only kills. It will only be one player while the other 11 of us will have no more than 20/20 K/A.

When killed by these players, i notice they are (mostly) spamming the same skill over and over. They also have an ability to be at about 10% HP and heal to 75% plus instantly and then become invincible even with multiple people attacking them for 30 plus seconds while they just melt entire teams. One last night got 54 kills, 0 deaths, and 23 assists. He had more kills than all 11 players combined.

I had another with 37 kills who was a magsorc who id get down to being one shot from dead, dart out of my range, heal for full HP instantly and then come back in range and just smoke me from 3/4 hp before i can even bar swap or hit a potion. This same person struggled to take down my HP just moments before.

It looks like godmode hacks to me. These players are not that good, something is helping them.

Spartabunny08 · June 2020

1 problem only with tank damage meta, here it goes, heavy armor with damage. The problem is not heals or mitigation period. Tanks and healers are getting screwed as well. This is simple not hard. I play every role well and healers and tanking is was my favorite. Healer is very difficult and it's getting harder and in no cp forget it. I wouldn't do it lol. If you want to be competitive make that warden mag or stam I prefer mag with polar wind and wreck those people. Put on your heavy armor that does damage cause if you can't beat them, join them. Zos obviously wants it this way cause new moon and now stuhns looks like this is how the devs want you to play. If you insist on healer, templar with sword and board resto battalion defender hist sap weapons and jewelry and healing monster set have fun, they will hate you as a healer lol

kaithuzar · June 2020

Absolutely not the worst, in fact I would say it’s even decent regarding balance. Definitely not the best we’ve seen but far from the worst.

spurned · June 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I cant take pvp seriously in this game. Its just to messed up. I do pvp but basically do it as a minigame. Since Greymoor ive been in BGS with players who are getting up to 65 kills now per match and the previous high ive seen was just below 30. I should note im not even including assists in this, only kills. It will only be one player while the other 11 of us will have no more than 20/20 K/A.

When killed by these players, i notice they are (mostly) spamming the same skill over and over. They also have an ability to be at about 10% HP and heal to 75% plus instantly and then become invincible even with multiple people attacking them for 30 plus seconds while they just melt entire teams. One last night got 54 kills, 0 deaths, and 23 assists. He had more kills than all 11 players combined.

I had another with 37 kills who was a magsorc who id get down to being one shot from dead, dart out of my range, heal for full HP instantly and then come back in range and just smoke me from 3/4 hp before i can even bar swap or hit a potion. This same person struggled to take down my HP just moments before.

It looks like godmode hacks to me. These players are not that good, something is helping them.

Pretty much yes. It's a matter of using the right base class with the right sets and top it off with certain proc (monster) sets. Then you get a perfect storm of invincibility and offensive capabilities. Problem is that not everyone can create such a beast. I'd prefer nobody could, honestly. ESO's slogan "play as you like" is either a mistake or used ironically.

SFxxKANExx · June 2020

Give us some background about your PVP experience @spurned : what is your highest rank in AVA and how many kills do you have in total?

wheem_ESO · June 2020

spurned wrote: »

As for the players with huge damage and fat heals, I find it imbalanced that well kitted classes, most often the magicka variants, get peak performance across the board.

You've got things exactly backwards; it's Stamina builds that are overpowered compared to their Magicka counterparts, and it has been that way for years now. The only real exception to that is Magicka Sorcerer, which tends to remain fairly competitive with Stamina builds (though even then, they're typically easier to kill if they start making mistakes).

There's not enough information on gear, skill usage, or decision making in order to give you any specific advice. But if you're a Stamina build that's having a hard time vs Magicka setups in BGs, in the current era of solo-only queues, you're probably either using a "bad" build, overextending/pushing when you shouldn't, or are going up against people who are just outplaying you.

spurned · June 2020

SFxxKANExx wrote: »

Give us some background about your PVP experience @spurned : what is your highest rank in AVA and how many kills do you have in total?

Unclear on what you mean by "experience". If I had to guess you're asking for PVP stats to deduce if I am experienced. Probably to exploit the lack of said experience and invalidate my claim that there's something wrong with the PVP in this game. I'm not looking just at myself as a reference, but at the high CP players in my team dropping like flies.
AVA rank is pointless anyway since all you need for that is time.
As for my kill count it could have been much higher if BG teams didn't have sometimes even 2 healing/killing dual purposed machines. Which is why I'm here ain't it?

xXMeowMeowXx · June 2020

Actually Stamblade rn is a monster in BGS, if you know how to play it.

The problem is on the players in BGs that are there just for their random or daily, and COD type players. They think they’re great until they join a solo queue and get rekted by a true 1 v Xer.

Those small maps are a dream come true. It’s like a bunch of strays from a Zerg just ripe for the taking.

They need to add a separate queue for premades to fight premades.

Though people need to learn how to gracefully lose at a game. They need to stop blaming everything but themselves and just be more light hearted about it.

Any class in the right hands works wonders. If you feel another class is better, then build it and play on that instead. That’s the fun on ESO, playing all the classes.

Also, CP level has nothing to do with BGs. Many people have multiple alt accounts at varying CP.

Simply there are good players at PvP. What would you expect after over half a decade??

idk · June 2020

spurned wrote: »

SFxxKANExx wrote: »

Give us some background about your PVP experience @spurned : what is your highest rank in AVA and how many kills do you have in total?

Unclear on what you mean by "experience". If I had to guess you're asking for PVP stats to deduce if I am experienced. Probably to exploit the lack of said experience and invalidate my claim that there's something wrong with the PVP in this game. I'm not looking just at myself as a reference, but at the high CP players in my team dropping like flies.
AVA rank is pointless anyway since all you need for that is time.
As for my kill count it could have been much higher if BG teams didn't have sometimes even 2 healing/killing dual purposed machines. Which is why I'm here ain't it?

Often times players complain about something in PvP and it often comes down to they could improve their build or playstyle to overcome what they are complaining about. In addition to that, Success in ESO PvP, outside of running with large zergs, is highly dependent on the player's skill unlike simplistic combat designs like WoW and FF14 have. Also, high CP is meaningless as it just shows time in the game. It does not indicate a player skill or that they spent much time in PvP.

The fact you are suggesting your kill count would be higher if it were not for BG teams having players that could DPS and heal (dual purpose) says a lot. Pretty much every PvP player I know can heal and DPS. Since the game launched magicka players have often been resto/destro unless they were S&B and even then they likely still had a heal. Stam often has heals with Vigor. I would never go into PvP without a heal on my bar.

So the general sentiment of what they were inquiring about is appropriate.

spurned · June 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Actually Stamblade rn is a monster in BGS, if you know how to play it.

The problem is on the players in BGs that are there just for their random or daily, and COD type players. They think they’re great until they join a solo queue and get rekted by a true 1 v Xer.

Those small maps are a dream come true. It’s like a bunch of strays from a Zerg just ripe for the taking.

They need to add a separate queue for premades to fight premades.

Though people need to learn how to gracefully lose at a game. They need to stop blaming everything but themselves and just be more light hearted about it.

Any class in the right hands works wonders. If you feel another class is better, then build it and play on that instead. That’s the fun on ESO, playing all the classes.

Also, CP level has nothing to do with BGs. Many people have multiple alt accounts at varying CP.

Simply there are good players at PvP. What would you expect after over half a decade??

Your train of thought is a bit hard to follow. The spaces between phrases also add to the jumps in logic. But to summarise. I got rekted (jargon has super past participle forms) by a true 1 v Xer. To which I need to be more light hearted. Or to improve, this part is implied I guess. Or to play the class that is better. I can do anything and everything, sky's the limit!
I dieded. This comment was intended as optimistic but it made me drift further into nihilism...

Riggsy · June 2020

Kadoin wrote: »

ZOS doesn't listen and they wanted to push an overall heal nerf, despite the huge disparity in healing between classes, and people are surprised the disparity is even higher?

If I were in college again I'd do my thesis on this game, the destructive decisions of those in charge, and how it mirrors our society writ large. Particularly the devs knee-jerk capitulation to the loudest voices without actually looking at the long term consequences, and their little thought out best-intention policymaking, in hopes of bringing about more equity and balance, only to make things worse.

It's human nature I guess.

spurned · June 2020

Riggsy wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

ZOS doesn't listen and they wanted to push an overall heal nerf, despite the huge disparity in healing between classes, and people are surprised the disparity is even higher?

If I were in college again I'd do my thesis on this game, the destructive decisions of those in charge, and how it mirrors our society writ large. Particularly the devs knee-jerk capitulation to the loudest voices without actually looking at the long term consequences, and their little thought out best-intention policymaking, in hopes of bringing about more equity and balance, only to make things worse.

It's human nature I guess.

I agree wholeheartedly. But I think any real analysis of aspects pertaining to anything that greatly benefits the majority at the expense of others will be met with hostility. I think we went from "if it ain't broke" to "if it ain't broke for us don't fix it". So don't share actual thoughts around here unless you want to be mistaken for a contender to the game's advantages. Which don't amount to much in the grand scheme of things. But it's still a paid medium that should be enjoyable for everyone.

[Deleted User] · June 2020

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