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Bots- just get in the game and ban them
They are stood around every boss in every dungeon spamming attacks. There is no subtlety, they are as plain as day.
It would take 1 person 1 hour to ban 90% of them. Just get in the game and ban them Zox.
Edited by Chinspinner on April 20, 2014 11:34AM It would take 1 person 1 hour to ban 90% of them. Just get in the game and ban them Zox.
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neiljwd✭✭✭AGREE.
I'm an intelligent bloke and after pondering this problem for nearly 10 minutes, I fail to see an argument against this being a successful tactic in the fight against botting- and championing the quality of life issues for everyday gamers.
If someone can educate me as to why it will achieve nothing, please enlighten me.
Ban 10 accounts in 5 minutes, that's a 500 dollar hit to the farmers real life wallets.Edited by neiljwd on April 20, 2014 11:53AM3 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭Bah, now it is going to look like we double posted.
I just posted asking why they aren't banning them - just to make them buy more accounts.
2 bans / hour would pay a Full Time position to remain in-game hunting them down.
And while it seems like the position would be self-defeating, since it would eventually cause the bots and spammers to Stop buying accounts..... well.. That's the objective anyway - isn't it?
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think this would be the only way to kill them off. Get some ingame GMs to do the circuits of all dungeons on all instances and ban them by hand as they see them.
Also have some sweep town areas to ban the zone chat bots and also have a few out in the field (running through all instances of server for those areas) and ban the harvesting bots.3 -
ElliottXO✭✭✭✭✭They rather write a barely working script or automation that will ban half of the legitimate players.
Just don't get your hands dirty zenimax. In game banning is so old school...2 -
multiple instances mean a gm wouldn't necessarily find all the bots. the gold spammers could probably be dealt with. the bots would take a hit, but they could just relog into another instance so only a portion of them would be gone. this makes it less cost effective for ZOS because it is basically a costly (you have to pay the person) and not wholly effective (they can't be in every instance at once) way of dealing with it, and it doesn't provide a long term solution (which is what I think they want to do). that would probably be the explanation.
that said, it is really getting out of hand. even if they hand out temp suspensions instead of full bans, since they won't be able to be 100% sure it is a bot (a real person monitors their activity sometimes making it difficult), would be appropriate. even if its just until they can implement a long term solution, I think at this point they probably need to just get in there and do what they can, while they work on something more effective.You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Like I said have the GMs run through all the instances.Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »multiple instances mean a gm wouldn't necessarily find all the bots.
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Like I said have the GMs run through all the instances.Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »multiple instances mean a gm wouldn't necessarily find all the bots.
which would be extremely time consuming and you can't be in ALL instances at one time. so when a gm moves to instances 1-20 a bot can move to instances 21-30, and when the gm starts going through 21-30, the bot moves back to 1-20. its whack-a-mole. like I said, i think they should get in there and do what they can now, until a long term solution is implemented, because having gms run through every instance of every area, on both megaservers 24/7 won't be completely effective and will cost a lot of money. so gms are a short term fix.
also @babylon I had written my comment after the first reply to this thread so I wasn't directly addressing you in my original post.
Edited by Saint_JiubB14_ESO on April 20, 2014 12:05PMYou have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill0 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭
How exactly will they Log Into another instance when they're Banned?Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »multiple instances mean a gm wouldn't necessarily find all the bots. the gold spammers could probably be dealt with. the bots would take a hit, but they could just relog into another instance so only a portion of them would be gone.
Bann = account Dead, no more logging in period.
And it means forcing the bots to Buy a new account = $$ for zenimax, far more than the cost of paid GMs or equivalent staff.
Yes, eventually it would cause the bots/spammers to stop buying accounts, but that's Supposed to be their goal!
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ElliottXO✭✭✭✭✭Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »multiple instances mean a gm wouldn't necessarily find all the bots. the gold spammers could probably be dealt with. the bots would take a hit, but they could just relog into another instance so only a portion of them would be gone. this makes it less cost effective for ZOS because it is basically a costly (you have to pay the person) and not wholly effective (they can't be in every instance at once) way of dealing with it, and it doesn't provide a long term solution (which is what I think they want to do). that would probably be the explanation.
that said, it is really getting out of hand. even if they hand out temp suspensions instead of full bans, since they won't be able to be 100% sure it is a bot (a real person monitors their activity sometimes making it difficult), would be appropriate. even if its just until they can implement a long term solution, I think at this point they probably need to just get in there and do what they can, while they work on something more effective.
It's quite simple: a GM goes to Del's Claim, moves to all e.g. 10 phases and bans the botters. Then he moves to the next dungeon.
How can they relog after getting banned? You make no sense. It's not like the bots are playing hide and seek. They are standing there and I promise to you they will be standing there beating down the boss even if the Pope shows up personally.
Cost argument: they could save thousands of ticket reports and keep legitimate subscribers.
I think it will pay off in any case to have someone ban them right at the spot.4 -
Dunhilda✭✭✭AGREE.
I'm an intelligent bloke
If someone can educate me as to why it will achieve nothing, please enlighten me.
Ban 10 accounts in 5 minutes, that's a 500 dollar hit to the farmers real life wallets.
If they are gold farmers from china do you really think it's going to cost them money if they lose accounts? I tell you something of what they are I'm shocked an intelligent bloke didn't know this about gold farmers but then again you could be new to MMO
Stolen accounts and stolen credit cards, also I could get ESO for £25, the gold farmers will never lose anything and being we have a massive exploit with duping just recently...
Regardless, you know the bosses drop soul gems and when I need some I'm in them farming away, hell I even learnt the best way to get loot when using a bow despite the bots I'm guaranteed loot.
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How exactly will they Log Into another instance when they're Banned?Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »multiple instances mean a gm wouldn't necessarily find all the bots. the gold spammers could probably be dealt with. the bots would take a hit, but they could just relog into another instance so only a portion of them would be gone.
Bann = account Dead, no more logging in period.
And it means forcing the bots to Buy a new account = $$ for zenimax, far more than the cost of paid GMs or equivalent staff.
Yes, eventually it would cause the bots/spammers to stop buying accounts, but that's Supposed to be their goal!
bots move from instance to instance, a gm can't be everywhere at once. I've watched them move in and out of my own instance. so as gms go to patrol an instance say #5 of 30, botters will just code their bots to relog more frequently, gms will catch them, but they will be hoping instances randomly so many would get away.
I'm not sure where you are getting that I said they would relog after being banned, I don't think I implied that.Edited by Saint_JiubB14_ESO on April 20, 2014 12:09PMYou have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill1 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »
Like I said have the GMs run through all the instances.Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »multiple instances mean a gm wouldn't necessarily find all the bots.
which would be extremely time consuming
Time consuming yes, but this is a professional company and can assign people to the task.1 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭If they are gold farmers from china do you really think it's going to cost them money if they lose accounts? I tell you something of what they are I'm shocked an intelligent bloke didn't know this about gold farmers but then again you could be new to MMO
Stolen accounts and stolen credit cards, also I could get ESO for £25, the gold farmers will never lose anything and being we have a massive exploit with duping just recently...
He asked for someone to tell him how it would Accomplish Nothing, not if it would be cost effective for gold farmers to continue.
Worst Case Scenario : Every banned gold farmer = another account sold to replace it.
Any other Case : The cost of buying those accounts begins to exceed the income of selling gold and the gold sellers QUIT = Still a Win.
As to stolen accounts, it is rare these days - most know not to give out their account info even to someone claiming to be from the company behind the game.
- for those who don't - their account will be stolen regardless of this scenario, so it changes nothing.2 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »bots move from instance to instance, a gm can't be everywhere at once.
You seem to be looking at things with the same perspective Zenimax is using.. EG ; No Consideration for the Actual Players.
How rare would bots have to be before you couldn't find them?
And if they're that rare, wouldn't you call that a GOOD thing?
And a GM-type of account could easily be made capable for shifting between instances.
Eg, Banner/GM enters a dungeon.. goes to the boss and checks for bots.
No bots? Switch to each of the other instances of this dungeon to check them.
No bots in any of them?
WIN!
Move on to the next dungeon and repeat.
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felixgamingx1✭✭✭✭This is how to properly deal with them
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/83831/aggressive-campaign-against-bots#latest0 -
traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭They may not have the ingame tools. A lot of places the Cutomer support People are 100% desktop jockeys. They have no ingme access at all.
Back in the early EQ days you had actual GMs assigned to your server. They were there someplace, maybe invisible, while on shift. I remember GM publicly banning people and booting them with zone wide announcements. Sony later made them into a more general pool to even out workloads across serves, but the tools were still there.
A lot of modern games have no super-powered chars at all, especially not on live servers. CS is something that happens outside the game these days.
I would not be surprised they don't ban people on drive-thrus on hotspots simply because they don't have that kind of access to the game.Edited by traigusb14_ESO2 on April 20, 2014 12:20PM0 -
babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »They may not have the ingame tools. A lot of places the Cutomer support People are 100% desktop jockeys. They have no ingme access at all...
I would not be surprised they don't ban people on drive-thrus on hotspots simply because they don't have that kind of access to the game.
They would make some access capable of doing this happen. Assign a taskforce to this and send them out with the right tools.0 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »They may not have the ingame tools. A lot of places the Cutomer support People are 100% desktop jockeys. They have no ingme access at all.
The simple fact that the programming staff was able to Create the game, and the client to play it on - proves they have the staff to provide a GM account and interface.
There is no reason for them Not to be doing this - it would actually Make them money, and keep masses of legitimate subscribers who are already Quitting over these bots and spammers.
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traigusb14_ESO2✭✭✭✭✭traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »They may not have the ingame tools. A lot of places the Cutomer support People are 100% desktop jockeys. They have no ingme access at all.
The simple fact that the programming staff was able to Create the game, and the client to play it on - proves they have the staff to provide a GM account and interface.
There is no reason for them Not to be doing this - it would actually Make them money, and keep masses of legitimate subscribers who are already Quitting over these bots and spammers.
Maybe. I'm not saying they can't do it. I'm saying they probably didn't do it (and most likely won't).
People making the money and workload choices would probably choose ingame code changes, lockouts, timers, counters, etc.rather than making GM tools, hiring people, training people, training someone to appeal their actions / supervise them to perform just 1 function / solve 1 problem.
Old school GMing seems to make a lot of sense from our end, but it doesn't look cost effective in paperclip counting land.
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babylon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »Old school GMing seems to make a lot of sense from our end, but it doesn't look cost effective in paperclip counting land.
It's cost-effective long term, as it will retain good customers because we'll feel looked after and generally protected and valued by the company.
I would recommend they do this.
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Time consuming yes, but this is a professional company and can assign people to the task.
like i said, I think they should do it as a quick fix for now, and random spot checks since no fix will be perfect. but gms are not a long term solution by themselves. alright I will try to do a simple illustration (ignoring varied minimum wages or and simplify the variables)
alright there are about 6 delves per major zone.
5 major zones per faction (assuming there isn't a separate zone in each faction for vet)
3 factions.
2 megaservers.
means there are 180 locations that need to be monitored. if you want to stomp out all the bots all the time would me 24/7 monitoring of those locations. at $7.25 /hr USD. it would cost ZOS $219,240/week, or $876,960/month = 58,464 subscribers devoted solely to banning bots.
(note: this is not the ACTUAL cost this is just a toy argument used to demonstrate a point.)
this is just a toy argument just to illustrate that its not so simple for ZOS. everyone seems to keep ignoring the part where I point out.. THEY SHOULD BE DOING THIS but the real solution is going to be at the code level to try to keep as many bots from getting into the game in the first place, they you clean up the mess. you plug the hole in the boat before you start to empty the water, but (just to keep this analogy accurate) while you are plugging the hole it can't hurt to get rid of some of the water.You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill0 -
OttokraticSoul ShrivenAgree put a human GM and it's sorted, I guess they are a bit greedy but if it continues like this a lot of people will leave so it's a good investment1
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Zolyok✭✭✭Or they can make tool to make bot life so difficult that they just die by attrition.
You kill the boss 1 time nor more xp or loot with this boss for the next 2 hours0 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭Saint_JiubB14_ESO wrote: »alright there are about 6 delves per major zone.
5 major zones per faction (assuming there isn't a separate zone in each faction for vet)
3 factions.
2 megaservers.
means there are 180 locations that need to be monitored. if you want to stomp out all the bots all the time would me 24/7 monitoring of those locations. at $7.25 /hr USD. it would cost ZOS $219,240/week, or $876,960/month = 58,464 subscribers devoted solely to banning bots.
(note: this is not the ACTUAL cost this is just a toy argument used to demonstrate a point.)
Some seriously flawed logic here.
Let's assume it is 500 locations the bots could be.
ONE banner/GM could hit a large part of those 500 locations in a single shift.
The next shift, another GM takes up where they left off.. and so on.
Yes, the bots operators are going to replace the ones banned, but here's the thing....
Each ban = a new account sold, = $ for Zenimax.
Each bot operator must also level a character on Each bot account to the appropriate range to actually Kill the boss they want to farm.
And by the time they get a new account, level up, and head to the dungeon - their other bots have been banned.
How long before they simply Stop all together?0 -
Or they can make tool to make bot life so difficult that they just die by attrition.
You kill the boss 1 time nor more xp or loot with this boss for the next 2 hours
already doing it, been in the upcoming changes for like a week now. terrible idea because it punishes real players more than bots.You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill1 -
Why ?A real player just need to kill the boss 1 time
not if they want loot or exp. a player will have to manually sit and wait for hours to get loot. but the bots don't care about time, they will sit there and just go on as they always did without the timers.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
Winston Churchill1 -
Rantog✭✭✭✭
Unless you are hunting the boss-specific item, which could easily require 5 kills to get.Why ?A real player just need to kill the boss 1 time
Or you're just one of those kind who like to farm a boss... which is perfectly within the rules.
There is no better single solution than a Live person seeking out and banning these people.. and the end result would mean more money for Zenimax even if it didn't generate more account sales.
If the bots and spammers are still this bad come the end of the Included-with-purchase game time.. they are going to see a mass exodus. And they will have no one to blame but themselves.
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Zolyok✭✭✭So make a timer if you stay more than 4 hours in the dungeon you will get a timer before entering in the same one0
