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ESO Game Designers PLS READ! (Veteran Dungeons way too hard!)
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ZOS_MichelleA✭✭✭✭✭
Hello, @Kronz. Please note that this poster is not a member of ZeniMax Online. As stated here, there is currently an issue with our forums where posts which are edited by moderators are labeled as such.snigernissen wrote: »To you Greatplayer...
Its supposed to be that hard, this is not another wow clone and some things in this game requires a great deal of effort to complette, so just because you think something is to hard for you and the people you crew up with, does not mean that the rest of us, casual players, thinks it should get nerfed.
btw, how can you be a casual player and be into vet content allready ? i would hardly call that casual tbh
Great to see someone from the staff say this.
You will be able to see the difference between a community member and an employee with the username. Employees have bolded, green usernames, and a green ouroboros as their avatar.Edited by ZOS_MichelleA on April 20, 2014 10:53AM0 -
GreatPlayer✭✭✭GreatPlayer wrote: »I really dont see why not, for example in the harder veteran dungeon you get better loot, and if the casual player want the same reward they just have to beat the easier version more times!
I don't think this makes any sense at all. If the casual player wants the same reward, all they have to do is focus on improving their game. Otherwise there's not much point to doing a harder version is there.
You have a good point, then give the players who finish the harder version a better reward,
FOR EXAMPLE, LETS USE AN AXE,
1) Easier version AXE does 10 damage
2) Harder version AXE does 11 damage
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veteran is NOT to hard dont ever try to make them easier i dont want another casual wow clone, where do everything so easy that a 10 year old without using their brain can do it.
its vr rank 1-5 if u cant do it you are to bad try to rank up some VR ranks, look over you spells u use, and think how to do the fight.
Dont ask them to nerf it becuse it is not to hard.0 -
Imryll✭✭✭✭✭If VR dungeons are intended as "end-game" for players who don't care to do larger group content, they need to be challenging, or folks will end up all dressed up with nowhere to go. "Too difficult" to charge through less than a month after release is OK.
Depending on completion statistics, it may be appropriate to lower their difficulty once the first major expansion pack has been announced, but certainly not now.
If you are having difficulty, I'd recommend crafting and/or PvP as ways to improve your gear and skill levels.
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Also casual gamers can be smart and good, casual dont mean stupid and bad at the game.
That:s an whole entire diffrent story thing is, its hard to pug becuse most ppl have no idea what spells to slot and how to rotation them.1 -
GreatPlayer✭✭✭If VR dungeons are intended as "end-game" for players who don't care to do larger group content, they need to be challenging, or folks will end up all dressed up with nowhere to go. "Too difficult" to charge through less than a month after release is OK.
Depending on completion statistics, it may be appropriate to lower their difficulty once the first major expansion pack has been announced, but certainly not now.
If you are having difficulty, I'd recommend crafting and/or PvP as ways to improve your gear and skill levels.
You do know enchanting takes at least 3 times the time as Blacksmithing to lvl?0 -
LarZen✭✭✭snigernissen wrote: »To you Greatplayer...
Its supposed to be that hard, this is not another wow clone and some things in this game requires a great deal of effort to complette, so just because you think something is to hard for you and the people you crew up with, does not mean that the rest of us, casual players, thinks it should get nerfed.
btw, how can you be a casual player and be into vet content allready ? i would hardly call that casual tbh
I had to read this comment several times... First you are so bold to say this is not a WoW clone and that content in ESO in contrary to WoW is hard and that it require a great deal of effort to complete.
First off...ESO is not a revolution in the mmorpg genera. Not in any way. In fact many people think it's a setback in the genera. Just as WoW have taken ideas from other mmorpg games, so have ESO. And saying that WoW is easy and that you don't have to putt much effort in to it just proves you have no idea what you are talking about.
The second thing and most disturbing thing is that you write "down" to a paying costumer when you should instead have encouraged him and given hints on how to succeed in veteran dungeons.
So get of your high horse, this is unprofessional behavior.
EDIT: I read now that this poster was NOT a member of ZeniMax Online. But a error on the forum. I'll just let it stay here for the lols.Edited by LarZen on April 20, 2014 11:05AM1 -
Socratic✭✭✭Once a group with some moderate form of intelligence actually figures out the routine it will become just that, routine, feeling of easy and tedious grind. I bet even WOW has dungeons when released people struggle for the first few weeks until it's figured out.0 -
GreatPlayer✭✭✭snigernissen wrote: »To you Greatplayer...
Its supposed to be that hard, this is not another wow clone and some things in this game requires a great deal of effort to complette, so just because you think something is to hard for you and the people you crew up with, does not mean that the rest of us, casual players, thinks it should get nerfed.
btw, how can you be a casual player and be into vet content allready ? i would hardly call that casual tbh
I had to read this comment several times... First you are so bold to say this is not a WoW clone and that content in ESO in contrary to WoW is hard and that it require a great deal of effort to complete.
First off...ESO is not a revolution in the mmorpg genera. Not in any way. In fact many people think it's a setback in the genera. Just as WoW have taken ideas from other mmorpg games, so have ESO. And saying that WoW is easy and that you don't have to putt much effort in to it just proves you have no idea what you are talking about.
The second thing and most disturbing thing is that you write "down" to a paying costumer when you should instead have encouraged him and given hints on how to succeed in veteran dungeons.
So get of your high horse, this is unprofessional behavior.
No! WOW is not hard, if you had played wow, then you would know WOW is all about gear, and how do you acquire better gear? you raid, or you do dungeons! Basically wow comes down to TIME, the more time you spend the better your gear and the more powerful you are! I played wow for a long time and I know!
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GreatPlayer✭✭✭Once a group with some moderate form of intelligence actually figures out the routine it will become just that, routine, feeling of easy and tedious grind. I bet even WOW has dungeons when released people struggle for the first few weeks until it's figured out.
But in wow there are two difficulty with some of the harder dungeon!0 -
BulbousMeathead✭✭✭Just goes to show that there can be a big difference between character levels and actual player skill. This is a good thing - the very top levels should require actual skill and technique to succeed. Keep practicing until you can do it !
There is no reason why this game can't cater to casuals and hardcores alike - Something for everyone. In fact, it should get exponentially more difficult the further up you go.
This is unlikely to drive the game to F2P, IMO. On the contrary, It would actually be more likely to go F2P if it's too easy to get to the top, and then there is nothing left to do, and people get bored.
I really hope it doesn't get nerfed !
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LarZen✭✭✭GreatPlayer wrote: »
No! WOW is not hard, if you had played wow, then you would know WOW is all about gear, and how do you acquire better gear? you raid, or you do dungeons! Basically wow comes down to TIME, the more time you spend the better your gear and the more powerful you are! I played wow for a long time and I know!
I have played WoW since it was in beta and I know it's a hard game. Endgame raids and even some dungeons are hard. If you don't have players that know the tactics there is no amount of gear that will make you survive for long.
I'm talking about endgame stuff here.
And ESO is just as gear dependent as WoW. Gear,stats and the right skills and tactics is required to get trough.
This whole WoW is easy and you just need gear is just nonsense.0 -
GreatPlayer✭✭✭GreatPlayer wrote: »
No! WOW is not hard, if you had played wow, then you would know WOW is all about gear, and how do you acquire better gear? you raid, or you do dungeons! Basically wow comes down to TIME, the more time you spend the better your gear and the more powerful you are! I played wow for a long time and I know!
I have played WoW since it was in beta and I know it's a hard game. Endgame raids and even some dungeons are hard. If you don't have players that know the tactics there is no amount of gear that will make you survive for long.
I'm talking about endgame stuff here.
And ESO is just as gear dependent as WoW. Gear,stats and the right skills and tactics is required to get trough.
This whole WoW is easy and you just need gear is just nonsense.
No the tactics is so standard, tell me what is the tactic? what is so hard about the raid and the dungeons? Why do some people die and some dont its SIMPLE GEAR!0 -
LarZen✭✭✭GreatPlayer wrote: »
No the tactics is so standard, tell me what is the tactic? what is so hard about the raid and the dungeons? Why do some people die and some dont its SIMPLE GEAR!
Hehehehe, been a while since I have bitten on a troll bait. Made me laugh when I realized what had happened. Thanks for the laugh
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Hestia✭✭✭I highly suggest this game to you OP.
I have completed two VR dungeons so far and even with it's difficulty, I find it very pleasing to have such of an achievement. If the game is way too easy, what's the fun in that? Sort out some sort of coordination with your group, use a voip (highly recommended) and learn the ways of the dungeon.
Edited by Hestia on April 20, 2014 11:29AM<Alatreon> Daggerfall Covenant | International | PvX | Adult Community | TS3+Mic required.
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GreatPlayer✭✭✭I highly suggest this game to you OP.
I have completed two VR dungeons so far and even with it's difficulty, I find it very pleasing to have such of an achievement. If the game is way too easy, what's the fun in that? Sort out some sort of coordination with your group, use a voip (highly recommended) and learn the ways of the dungeon.
Sorry WOW is a sinking SHIP, and I am definitely not wasting my time on that *** ever again! I guess my next great hope will be everquest next. I am definitely not playing wildstar, its just too cartonish, probably just another WOW clone! Also if you listen to the Everquest Next Ceo, he says they are getting rid of the leveling BS completely!Edited by GreatPlayer on April 20, 2014 11:34AM1 -
Hestia✭✭✭Well, if you're looking for an easy game, ESO would not suit your taste buds. I hope that Zenimax will never decrease the difficulty of VR content.<Alatreon> Daggerfall Covenant | International | PvX | Adult Community | TS3+Mic required.
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Noswell✭✭✭GreatPlayer wrote: »Sorry WOW is a sinking SHIP, and I am definitely not wasting my time on that *** ever again!
It seems strange you would say this after spending the whole thread suggesting ESO adopt the welfare loot system of WoW. Maybe those two things are related.1 -
Honestly, I consider myself a casual player...and the Grotto isn't that horrible if you have a group that knows how to do their job. I'm not saying it's easy, because it really isn't, but I sure as heck don't want someone to make it a piece of cake. You should look at difficult content as a goal to achieve, not as something that should just be handed to you whether you are a casual player or not. I know it's frustrating, but just be a great player, and play the game.0 -
gharms✭✭✭Good lord. 3 weeks in and the nerf babies are already at it. This entire generation of MMO players has been ruined by WoW's blasé attitude to content. I'm also starting to think it's a generational thing. These ARE the same people who thought it would be cool to occupy parks and demand free college, because paying back student loans is too hard.......sound familar? They want adult life nerfed, and we're surprised when they want a dungeon they can't faceroll to be nerfed into the ground.
PS: they're called VETERAN dungeons for a reason, skippy, not "faceroll lol lol lootpinata dungeons". You'd probably get your wish then be back here whining that you have nothing to do.Edited by gharms on April 20, 2014 12:52PM1 -
Mauzi✭✭GreatPlayer wrote: »Sorry WOW is a sinking SHIP, and I am definitely not wasting my time on that *** ever again!
Funny that you see this while all the time referring to how perfect (aka easy) WoW dungeons are. But do you realize why WoW is a sinking ship ? Because it became more and more easy, not leaving a challenge for those who loved such at the very beginning of the game, while instead just adding more and more simplified content for the masses and reducing the overall difficulty further and further. This obviously drove the players who wanted something interesting and challenging away while attracting the simpletons - which is why WoW is going down these days. (Not to speak of the graphics, but considering many new titles it seems that there's players aplenty who like cartoon games.)
Thus, while I agree with your statement, I beg you to longer try to sink this game by demanding to have everything easy.
Also, while I could agree to your proposal of different dungeon levels, it would be utterly wrong that you could get the same rewards for a simplified dungeon run just at a lesser drop rate. Instead, you'd need to get weaker loot for fighting weaker enemies, 'cause killing a weak enemy 10x doesn't allow for the same difficulty reward as 1x killing a 10x stronger enemy. But for that you could always go into less challenging dungeons already, so I see no need for a change at all.Edited by Mauzi on April 20, 2014 2:45PM0 -
GreatPlayer✭✭✭GreatPlayer wrote: »Sorry WOW is a sinking SHIP, and I am definitely not wasting my time on that *** ever again!
Funny that you see this while all the time referring to how perfect (aka easy) WoW dungeons are. But do you realize why WoW is a sinking ship ? Because it became more and more easy, not leaving a challenge for those who loved such at the very beginning of the game, while instead just adding more and more simplified content for the masses and reducing the overall difficulty further and further. This obviously drove the players who wanted something interesting and challenging away while attracting the simpletons - which is why WoW is going down these days. (Not to speak of the graphics, but considering many new titles it seems that there's players aplenty who like cartoon games.)
Thus, while I agree with your statement, I beg you to longer try to sink this game by demanding to have everything easy.
Also, while I could agree to your proposal of different dungeon levels, it would be utterly wrong that you could get the same rewards for a simplified dungeon run just at a lesser drop rate. Instead, you'd need to get weaker loot for fighting weaker enemies, 'cause killing a weak enemy 10x doesn't allow for the same difficulty reward as 1x killing a 10x stronger enemy. But for that you could always go into less challenging dungeons already, so I see no need for a change at all.
NO! wow is not perfect! I dont want this game to become WOW either, I just want the game to adapt to what works and what doesnt, if the game is to be successful it needs to pls majority of the people, and the majority is casual gamers!0 -
GreatPlayer✭✭✭GreatPlayer wrote: »Sorry WOW is a sinking SHIP, and I am definitely not wasting my time on that *** ever again!
Funny that you see this while all the time referring to how perfect (aka easy) WoW dungeons are. But do you realize why WoW is a sinking ship ? Because it became more and more easy, not leaving a challenge for those who loved such at the very beginning of the game, while instead just adding more and more simplified content for the masses and reducing the overall difficulty further and further. This obviously drove the players who wanted something interesting and challenging away while attracting the simpletons - which is why WoW is going down these days. (Not to speak of the graphics, but considering many new titles it seems that there's players aplenty who like cartoon games.)
Thus, while I agree with your statement, I beg you to longer try to sink this game by demanding to have everything easy.
Also, while I could agree to your proposal of different dungeon levels, it would be utterly wrong that you could get the same rewards for a simplified dungeon run just at a lesser drop rate. Instead, you'd need to get weaker loot for fighting weaker enemies, 'cause killing a weak enemy 10x doesn't allow for the same difficulty reward as 1x killing a 10x stronger enemy. But for that you could always go into less challenging dungeons already, so I see no need for a change at all.
If you had read what I posted, I did not say to make the game easy, I said to cater to everyone, make the veteran dungeons have two mode, one for the casual and another for the hardcore!0 -
GreatPlayer✭✭✭GreatPlayer wrote: »Sorry WOW is a sinking SHIP, and I am definitely not wasting my time on that *** ever again!
Funny that you see this while all the time referring to how perfect (aka easy) WoW dungeons are. But do you realize why WoW is a sinking ship ? Because it became more and more easy, not leaving a challenge for those who loved such at the very beginning of the game, while instead just adding more and more simplified content for the masses and reducing the overall difficulty further and further. This obviously drove the players who wanted something interesting and challenging away while attracting the simpletons - which is why WoW is going down these days. (Not to speak of the graphics, but considering many new titles it seems that there's players aplenty who like cartoon games.)
Thus, while I agree with your statement, I beg you to longer try to sink this game by demanding to have everything easy.
Also, while I could agree to your proposal of different dungeon levels, it would be utterly wrong that you could get the same rewards for a simplified dungeon run just at a lesser drop rate. Instead, you'd need to get weaker loot for fighting weaker enemies, 'cause killing a weak enemy 10x doesn't allow for the same difficulty reward as 1x killing a 10x stronger enemy. But for that you could always go into less challenging dungeons already, so I see no need for a change at all.
No, wow is a sinking ship not because it is too easy! WOW is a sinking ship because its been 15 years, and the game badly needs a graphic update, a combat system update!
Back in WOW vanilla and even up until lych KING another name for WOW was called TIME SINK, Because it took so long to form a group for raid, it took so long to get to a raid boss, it took so long to find a good group who had all the right tiers gear, it took so many attempt killing the same DUNGEON OR RAID boss over and over again just to get the piece of the right loot you want.
What the player based demanded was to make the time sink less, to make the drop rate better. Thats all and the game was easier because it became less of a time sink!
Know your history before you start talking PLS!0 -
GreatPlayer✭✭✭Good lord. 3 weeks in and the nerf babies are already at it. This entire generation of MMO players has been ruined by WoW's blasé attitude to content. I'm also starting to think it's a generational thing. These ARE the same people who thought it would be cool to occupy parks and demand free college, because paying back student loans is too hard.......sound familar? They want adult life nerfed, and we're surprised when they want a dungeon they can't faceroll to be nerfed into the ground.
PS: they're called VETERAN dungeons for a reason, skippy, not "faceroll lol lol lootpinata dungeons". You'd probably get your wish then be back here whining that you have nothing to do.
What does student loan have anything to do with an mmo? Stay on point pls. And if you want to debate on student loan being easy to payback! I am an economist, I graduated from uc Berkeley, I even wrote a research paper on the topic. I will just tell you my conclusion since you can't understand the technical detail anyways. Student loan is a trap, it is designed so that people are stuck in a limbo and most students will never be able to pay it back!Edited by GreatPlayer on April 22, 2014 2:24AM0 -
Hestia✭✭✭<Alatreon> Daggerfall Covenant | International | PvX | Adult Community | TS3+Mic required.
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Nation✭My ONLY issue with veterans is the way that the pulls are. There is nearly NO WAY to pull small groups of 3-4. Instead, you get huge groups that destroy everything without insane AoE.
If the pulls could be changed a bit, it'd be much more manageable.0 -
Calkrow✭✭My ONLY issue with veterans is the way that the pulls are. There is nearly NO WAY to pull small groups of 3-4. Instead, you get huge groups that destroy everything without insane AoE.
If the pulls could be changed a bit, it'd be much more manageable.
I'm no where near veteran content to know, but it would be really good if the skill of a puller (aka EQ monks and bards when played well) where needed.
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