Well, it has created new exciting opportunities for pvp... as long as ganking players completely unprepared and not really wanting to pvp makes you feel good.

I'm of the mind that pushing players into pvp that don't really want to be there isn't really helping them or the pvp players. It would likely be a much healthier environment if everyone there was there for actual pvp.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because ZOS stuck leads in pretty much every piece of content they could, including fishing.

Leads seem pretty equal opportunity to me; everyone has some content they absolutely hate that they have to do if they want the item.

Which is fine, but it’s one thing to put leads in places where everyone has an equal opportunity to farm what they are looking for. It’s another thing to place them in a place where getting to them is completely unachievable because PvP zergs have caught onto the fact that people have to come through them to get it. It’s gotten to the point where large zergs have formed to farm the players coming into those zones and gate keeping an item.

IrishOphidia wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because ZOS stuck leads in pretty much every piece of content they could, including fishing.

Leads seem pretty equal opportunity to me; everyone has some content they absolutely hate that they have to do if they want the item.

Which is fine, but it’s one thing to put leads in places where everyone has an equal opportunity to farm what they are looking for. It’s another thing to place them in a place where getting to them is completely up achievable because PvP zergs have caught onto the fact that people have to come through them to get it. It’s gotten to the point where large zergs have formed to farm the players coming into those zones and gate keeping an item.

PVP takes persistence and patience. Also, gatekeeping is kind of the point of PVP. You want AP, Tel Var, capturing the objective, or doing the quest in a PVP-enabled zone? ZOS expects you to go through other players to get it. They didn't forget that when they put a lead in IC.

If the PVP zergs have caught on, and you really don't want to group up with a PVP zerg of your own faction to fight them off, patience might be your best bet. PVPers tend to go where the conflict is. Wait until the rush dies down, and there will be less PVPers to fight or avoid.

VaranisArano wrote: »

PVP takes persistence and patience. Also, gatekeeping is kind of the point of PVP. You want AP, Tel Var, capturing the objective, or doing the quest in a PVP-enabled zone? ZOS expects you to go through other players to get it. They didn't forget that when they put a lead in IC.

If the PVP zergs have caught on, and you really don't want to group up with a PVP zerg of your own faction to fight them off, patience might be your best bet. PVPers tend to go where the conflict is. Wait until the rush dies down, and there will be less PVPers to fight or avoid.

Right, but those things are PvP based items. You’re not forced to go into PvP to farm AP, Telvar, or Objectives. Those are strictly PvP based items/currency. If you’re after those things then you’re there to PvP. Forcing players to go into an area to farm for something that isn’t PvP oriented, like a lead, isn’t PvP oriented. ZoS has a bad habit of forcing players to do content that they don’t enjoy doing.

IrishOphidia wrote: »

Which is fine, but it’s one thing to put leads in places where everyone has an equal opportunity to farm what they are looking for. It’s another thing to place them in a place where getting to them is completely unachievable because PvP zergs have caught onto the fact that people have to come through them to get it. It’s gotten to the point where large zergs have formed to farm the players coming into those zones and gate keeping an item.

So what would you call the 30 people swarming Arteum fishing holes, if not a large zerg that's gatekeeping the lead?

IrishOphidia wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because ZOS stuck leads in pretty much every piece of content they could, including fishing.

Leads seem pretty equal opportunity to me; everyone has some content they absolutely hate that they have to do if they want the item.

Which is fine, but it’s one thing to put leads in places where everyone has an equal opportunity to farm what they are looking for. It’s another thing to place them in a place where getting to them is completely unachievable because PvP zergs have caught onto the fact that people have to come through them to get it. It’s gotten to the point where large zergs have formed to farm the players coming into those zones and gate keeping an item.

Aaah the Malacath lead?

dude, be happy it's just one lead.

Ask in Zone chat to go in groups, after 2, 3, maybe 5 max... boss kills, you'll get your lead and get on with your PvE life.

Why is this a problem?

It's a PvP zone.

Don't expect you can just waltz in there and come out unscathed. couple weeks ago I was there solo and simply message the other faction player "hey, here for leads", and that's it. We kill some boss together.

Then other players joined, then suddenly it's a big fight. I joined a bit, help out a bit, runaway for abit. Then, I simply moved on to other bosses, and got the drop and that's it.

Where are the leads in IC?

Also one part of bloodlords embrace stood from stationary sewers bosses. But those are much easier to kill and are much less commonly fought over

I don't really mind PvP being part of the game; it should be as it does attract a crowd of players. My only issue lies within ZOS forcing PvP as they have been by locking notable rewards behind it. I just feel like they could do so much better by making PvP worth doing and understanding by introducing a better reward system.

For starters adding a chance to get any lead from PvPing would be nice incentive; on killing a player in a correct zone just make it have a chance to drop almost any lead in the game with very few exceptions. It's a low chance of course but that's to offset the potential for any lead at all; thus eliminating the more boring side of forcing PvE players to farm in the same zone constantly for little to no reward. Keeping the leads primary sources to be overworld/trial/dungeon content whereas PvP zones are granted an ease-of-access for content the majority player base doesn't enjoy doing.

That's my two cents though; when a game has to force PvP content to get people to try PvP that's when you know they've done it poorly and badly. The incentive rewards to do PvP shouldn't feel forceful or required, it should feel rewarding and exciting. The Gold Vendor does a good job achieving that by offering monster set alternatives to doing dungeons so you can use AP to collect all of them. Don't know why we couldn't achieve the same system with a Lead vendor or something of the nature I mentioned above.

Rahar wrote: »

Putting something that a lot of players find valuable in a PvP zone to encourage PvP is the definition of good MMO design because it encourages player interaction. Similarly, you could switch 'PvP' with 'PvE' or any other side of the game and still end up with a true statement on the other side. At the end of the day, you would have come in to contact with players you would have never come into contact with had you been allowed to stay in your shell, and you also felt strongly enough about it that you had to come and make a post here, and that's what makes an MMO good.

There are, of course, outliers that will get salty at having their comfort zone moved and want to deconstruct that experience for other people. If you listen to the outliers all the time, you get a bad MMO because it discourages players playing with other players.

Simple as.

Except that it’s not incentivizing PvP. You’re not seeing PvE players YouTubing PvP builds, gearing out, and learning PvP simply to farm a lead. Generally, in most servers, all we see is players complaining or expressing that they feel inconvenienced by having to go to IC (in this example) in order to get the Lead they need. Then they typically respond with “Thank god I never have to go in there for awhile.” or “I’m glad that’s over.”

If you have to pull players into content utilizing a popular item, then something is wrong with the content. Same can be said for PvE. Obviously something about that particular content isn’t enticing enough to make players want to do it because it’s enjoyable. Feeling strongly enough to make a post isn’t what makes an MMO great. Now if my post had praised ZoS for their decision then I could understand that comment.

The Malcath Band is a PvP item. It’s a crippling liability in PvE content where critting is insanely important to damage output.

It’s a PvP item with PvP as a part of its acquisition, I see nothing wrong with that.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I don't think that's the true purpose of this forums thread.

You've made it crystal clear that you don't like being (in your words) "forced" into PvP to chase leads ... and have posted many replies already to rebut statements contrary to that belief.

Yes, I think I made it pretty clear that forcing people into content is poor development so I don’t see your point there. If you’d like to hop in group where I’ll link all of my mythic then just let me know when.

I run a discord and in that discord are lower level players who are voicing their frustrations and I decided to put them here. Just because I made a thread doesn’t mean I’m the one having the issue. Lul.

The suggestion was having more than one way to get leads so you’re not forcing people into content. Problem is nobody is “trying new playstyles” just to get a lead. Sorry to break it to ya, but like I said earlier, nobody is YouTubing PvP builds, buying/crafting/farming gear, and strapping in to go get a lead. So if that was the purpose of putting the leads there, it was a pretty epic fail.

How about all the crappy PvE us PvPers have to go through for gear? VMA, Vet trials.
Why not have a system like WoW used to have before it went to poo, where you have separate gear and the best PvP gear had to be earned from Honour points

IrishOphidia wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I don't think that's the true purpose of this forums thread.

You've made it crystal clear that you don't like being (in your words) "forced" into PvP to chase leads ... and have posted many replies already to rebut statements contrary to that belief.

Yes, I think I made it pretty clear that forcing people into content is poor development so I don’t see your point there. If you’d like to hop in group where I’ll link all of my mythic then just let me know when.

I run a discord and in that discord are lower level players who are voicing their frustrations and I decided to put them here. Just because I made a thread doesn’t mean I’m the one having the issue. Lul.

The suggestion was having more than one way to get leads so you’re not forcing people into content. Problem is nobody is “trying new playstyles” just to get a lead. Sorry to break it to ya, but like I said earlier, nobody is YouTubing PvP builds, buying/crafting/farming gear, and strapping in to go get a lead. So if that was the purpose of putting the leads there, it was a pretty epic fail.

Then they don't get the item. Period.

Just like if I don't feel like learning a new trial or dungeon, I don't get the item sets from there either.

Do the content, get the set. Don't do the content, don't get the set. Really simple. And literally applies to everything in this game. Why should it be exempt from PVP? The answer is, it shouldn't be.