Mythic Items in PvP?

IrishOphidia

So exactly why are we putting mythic item leads in pvp zones where players are camping zones with large groups to kill people as they enter zones to find leads? Good job ZoS.

redspecter23

Well, it has created new exciting opportunities for pvp... as long as ganking players completely unprepared and not really wanting to pvp makes you feel good.

I'm of the mind that pushing players into pvp that don't really want to be there isn't really helping them or the pvp players. It would likely be a much healthier environment if everyone there was there for actual pvp.

VaranisArano

Because ZOS stuck leads in pretty much every piece of content they could, including fishing.

Leads seem pretty equal opportunity to me; everyone has some content they absolutely hate that they have to do if they want the item.

IrishOphidia

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because ZOS stuck leads in pretty much every piece of content they could, including fishing.

Leads seem pretty equal opportunity to me; everyone has some content they absolutely hate that they have to do if they want the item.

Which is fine, but it’s one thing to put leads in places where everyone has an equal opportunity to farm what they are looking for. It’s another thing to place them in a place where getting to them is completely unachievable because PvP zergs have caught onto the fact that people have to come through them to get it. It’s gotten to the point where large zergs have formed to farm the players coming into those zones and gate keeping an item.

IrishOphidia

I’m not speaking from a personal experience because I have everything I need from those areas, but I’m running into more and more lower level players who are getting frustrated that they can’t get the piece that they need because a group of players are zerging the zones and killing them before they can have a chance to acquire the piece they’re farming.

VaranisArano

IrishOphidia wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because ZOS stuck leads in pretty much every piece of content they could, including fishing.

Leads seem pretty equal opportunity to me; everyone has some content they absolutely hate that they have to do if they want the item.

Which is fine, but it’s one thing to put leads in places where everyone has an equal opportunity to farm what they are looking for. It’s another thing to place them in a place where getting to them is completely up achievable because PvP zergs have caught onto the fact that people have to come through them to get it. It’s gotten to the point where large zergs have formed to farm the players coming into those zones and gate keeping an item.

PVP takes persistence and patience. Also, gatekeeping is kind of the point of PVP. You want AP, Tel Var, capturing the objective, or doing the quest in a PVP-enabled zone? ZOS expects you to go through other players to get it. They didn't forget that when they put a lead in IC.

If the PVP zergs have caught on, and you really don't want to group up with a PVP zerg of your own faction to fight them off, patience might be your best bet. PVPers tend to go where the conflict is. Wait until the rush dies down, and there will be less PVPers to fight or avoid.

VaranisArano

IrishOphidia wrote: »

I’m not speaking from a personal experience because I have everything I need from those areas, but I’m running into more and more lower level players who are getting frustrated that they can’t get the piece that they need because a group of players are zerging the zones and killing them before they can have a chance to acquire the piece they’re farming.

Lower leveled players got screwed hard by ZOS' choice to remove the Below 50 IC campaign. I'm not saying that some experienced players wouldn't have hopped onto low level alts to fight them, but at least they wouldn't be fighting folks in CP 160 gear in the No CP Imperial City.

I pointed that problem out for the upcoming Midyear Mayhem, but I doubt ZOS is going to change anything, unfortunately.

IrishOphidia

VaranisArano wrote: »

PVP takes persistence and patience. Also, gatekeeping is kind of the point of PVP. You want AP, Tel Var, capturing the objective, or doing the quest in a PVP-enabled zone? ZOS expects you to go through other players to get it. They didn't forget that when they put a lead in IC.

If the PVP zergs have caught on, and you really don't want to group up with a PVP zerg of your own faction to fight them off, patience might be your best bet. PVPers tend to go where the conflict is. Wait until the rush dies down, and there will be less PVPers to fight or avoid.

Right, but those things are PvP based items. You’re not forced to go into PvP to farm AP, Telvar, or Objectives. Those are strictly PvP based items/currency. If you’re after those things then you’re there to PvP. Forcing players to go into an area to farm for something that isn’t PvP oriented, like a lead, isn’t PvP oriented. ZoS has a bad habit of forcing players to do content that they don’t enjoy doing.

IrishOphidia

Trials are the same way. I can understand when a PvP player gets upset that they have to farm trials for gear. It’s not something they enjoy doing.

VoxAdActa

IrishOphidia wrote: »

Which is fine, but it’s one thing to put leads in places where everyone has an equal opportunity to farm what they are looking for. It’s another thing to place them in a place where getting to them is completely unachievable because PvP zergs have caught onto the fact that people have to come through them to get it. It’s gotten to the point where large zergs have formed to farm the players coming into those zones and gate keeping an item.

So what would you call the 30 people swarming Arteum fishing holes, if not a large zerg that's gatekeeping the lead?

YandereGirlfriend

IrishOphidia wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because ZOS stuck leads in pretty much every piece of content they could, including fishing.

Leads seem pretty equal opportunity to me; everyone has some content they absolutely hate that they have to do if they want the item.

Which is fine, but it’s one thing to put leads in places where everyone has an equal opportunity to farm what they are looking for. It’s another thing to place them in a place where getting to them is completely unachievable because PvP zergs have caught onto the fact that people have to come through them to get it. It’s gotten to the point where large zergs have formed to farm the players coming into those zones and gate keeping an item.

This is a huge exaggeration.

I literally just went to PC-NA Imperial City and got the Malacath lead with little drama.

Just port to the City and check if your faction holds any of the areas. If they do, go there. Ask around in zone for any groups and join them, if available. If your side does not control any zones, port away and check back later.

It is reckless to charge into an enemy-controlled zone by yourself, even for regular PvP'ers.

Other PvP zones follow similar easy rules. Just a modicum of situational awareness, common sense, and, if necessary, patience, and you will be fine.

MincVinyl

Man I would hate to have to do something that I don't like for a short while.....continues to have to run the same *** dungeons since the start of the game.

Davadin

IrishOphidia wrote: »

So exactly why are we putting mythic item leads in pvp zones where players are camping zones with large groups to kill people as they enter zones to find leads? Good job ZoS.

where is this?

isn't leads anywhere in Cyrodiil? which zones are you talking about?

Davadin

IrishOphidia wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Because ZOS stuck leads in pretty much every piece of content they could, including fishing.

Leads seem pretty equal opportunity to me; everyone has some content they absolutely hate that they have to do if they want the item.

Which is fine, but it’s one thing to put leads in places where everyone has an equal opportunity to farm what they are looking for. It’s another thing to place them in a place where getting to them is completely unachievable because PvP zergs have caught onto the fact that people have to come through them to get it. It’s gotten to the point where large zergs have formed to farm the players coming into those zones and gate keeping an item.

Aaah the Malacath lead?

dude, be happy it's just one lead.

Ask in Zone chat to go in groups, after 2, 3, maybe 5 max... boss kills, you'll get your lead and get on with your PvE life.

Why is this a problem?

It's a PvP zone.

Don't expect you can just waltz in there and come out unscathed. couple weeks ago I was there solo and simply message the other faction player "hey, here for leads", and that's it. We kill some boss together.

Then other players joined, then suddenly it's a big fight. I joined a bit, help out a bit, runaway for abit. Then, I simply moved on to other bosses, and got the drop and that's it.

Rahar

Putting something that a lot of players find valuable in a PvP zone to encourage PvP is the definition of good MMO design because it encourages player interaction. Similarly, you could switch 'PvP' with 'PvE' or any other side of the game and still end up with a true statement on the other side. At the end of the day, you would have come in to contact with players you would have never come into contact with had you been allowed to stay in your shell, and you also felt strongly enough about it that you had to come and make a post here, and that's what makes an MMO good.

There are, of course, outliers that will get salty at having their comfort zone moved and want to deconstruct that experience for other people. If you listen to the outliers all the time, you get a bad MMO because it discourages players playing with other players.

Simple as.

butterrum222

Where are the leads in IC?

VaranisArano

butterrum222 wrote: »

Where are the leads in IC?

One of the Malacath items drops from Imperial City District bosses.

kringled_1

Also one part of bloodlords embrace stood from stationary sewers bosses. But those are much easier to kill and are much less commonly fought over

idk

Leads go into pretty much most aspects of the game. Cyrodiil and IC are part of the game.

Kittytravel

I don't really mind PvP being part of the game; it should be as it does attract a crowd of players. My only issue lies within ZOS forcing PvP as they have been by locking notable rewards behind it. I just feel like they could do so much better by making PvP worth doing and understanding by introducing a better reward system.

For starters adding a chance to get any lead from PvPing would be nice incentive; on killing a player in a correct zone just make it have a chance to drop almost any lead in the game with very few exceptions. It's a low chance of course but that's to offset the potential for any lead at all; thus eliminating the more boring side of forcing PvE players to farm in the same zone constantly for little to no reward. Keeping the leads primary sources to be overworld/trial/dungeon content whereas PvP zones are granted an ease-of-access for content the majority player base doesn't enjoy doing.

That's my two cents though; when a game has to force PvP content to get people to try PvP that's when you know they've done it poorly and badly. The incentive rewards to do PvP shouldn't feel forceful or required, it should feel rewarding and exciting. The Gold Vendor does a good job achieving that by offering monster set alternatives to doing dungeons so you can use AP to collect all of them. Don't know why we couldn't achieve the same system with a Lead vendor or something of the nature I mentioned above.

IrishOphidia

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

This is a huge exaggeration.

I literally just went to PC-NA Imperial City and got the Malacath lead with little drama.

Just port to the City and check if your faction holds any of the areas. If they do, go there. Ask around in zone for any groups and join them, if available. If your side does not control any zones, port away and check back later.

It is reckless to charge into an enemy-controlled zone by yourself, even for regular PvP'ers.

Other PvP zones follow similar easy rules. Just a modicum of situational awareness, common sense, and, if necessary, patience, and you will be fine.

Like I said earlier, I’m not concerned about myself. I have all of my Mythics. I’m more interested in the effect this is having on newer players who aren’t as resourceful as veteran players. It seems that the frustrations that they are experiencing is in direct result of having to go into content that they simply are not ready for, geared for, or simply interested in doing.

A lot of these newer players feel like they are being prevented from acquiring these items because they simply cannot do the content.

1. A low level CP player is going to struggle to kill an upper IC boss assuming they can do it at all.

2. They are certainly struggling to kill other players either due to inexperience or the simple fact that they are low CP being attacked by a group or a max CP player.

3. Grouping isn’t guaranteeing them a drop unless they are contributing to the dmg pool whilst also not being attacked by enemy factions.

It’s situations like these that ZoS is creating that is frustrating a lot of players. Instead of having the lead drop from a single source, allow the item to drop from both a PvP source for those who enjoy PvP and a PvE source for those you would rather do PvE content.

IrishOphidia

Rahar wrote: »

Putting something that a lot of players find valuable in a PvP zone to encourage PvP is the definition of good MMO design because it encourages player interaction. Similarly, you could switch 'PvP' with 'PvE' or any other side of the game and still end up with a true statement on the other side. At the end of the day, you would have come in to contact with players you would have never come into contact with had you been allowed to stay in your shell, and you also felt strongly enough about it that you had to come and make a post here, and that's what makes an MMO good.

There are, of course, outliers that will get salty at having their comfort zone moved and want to deconstruct that experience for other people. If you listen to the outliers all the time, you get a bad MMO because it discourages players playing with other players.

Simple as.

Except that it’s not incentivizing PvP. You’re not seeing PvE players YouTubing PvP builds, gearing out, and learning PvP simply to farm a lead. Generally, in most servers, all we see is players complaining or expressing that they feel inconvenienced by having to go to IC (in this example) in order to get the Lead they need. Then they typically respond with “Thank god I never have to go in there for awhile.” or “I’m glad that’s over.”

If you have to pull players into content utilizing a popular item, then something is wrong with the content. Same can be said for PvE. Obviously something about that particular content isn’t enticing enough to make players want to do it because it’s enjoyable. Feeling strongly enough to make a post isn’t what makes an MMO great. Now if my post had praised ZoS for their decision then I could understand that comment.

Taleof2Cities

idk wrote: »

Leads go into pretty much most aspects of the game. Cyrodiil and IC are part of the game.

Here's another insightful for you ...

IrishOphidia wrote: »

Like I said earlier, I’m not concerned about myself. I have all of my Mythics. I’m more interested in the effect this is having on newer players who aren’t as resourceful as veteran players.

I don't think that's the true purpose of this forums thread.

You've made it crystal clear that you don't like being (in your words) "forced" into PvP to chase leads ... and have posted many replies already to rebut statements contrary to that belief.

The reality is that players have to try different playstyles every once in awhile ... instead of always coming to the forums and asking for the game to be changed to accommodate their preferred playstyle. That applies to new players too.

Jimmy_The_Fixer

The Malcath Band is a PvP item. It’s a crippling liability in PvE content where critting is insanely important to damage output.

It’s a PvP item with PvP as a part of its acquisition, I see nothing wrong with that.

IrishOphidia

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

The Malcath Band is a PvP item. It’s a crippling liability in PvE content where critting is insanely important to damage output.

It’s a PvP item with PvP as a part of its acquisition, I see nothing wrong with that.

I mean you’re labeling it a PvP set, but it’s not specifically a PvP set. Same as if I were to say Mother’s Sorrow is a PvE set so it shouldn’t be used in PvP.

It’s a Mythic. That a lot of players want and their frustrated when they can’t get to it because higher level players are keeping them from it.

IrishOphidia

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I don't think that's the true purpose of this forums thread.

You've made it crystal clear that you don't like being (in your words) "forced" into PvP to chase leads ... and have posted many replies already to rebut statements contrary to that belief.

Yes, I think I made it pretty clear that forcing people into content is poor development so I don’t see your point there. If you’d like to hop in group where I’ll link all of my mythic then just let me know when.

I run a discord and in that discord are lower level players who are voicing their frustrations and I decided to put them here. Just because I made a thread doesn’t mean I’m the one having the issue. Lul.

The suggestion was having more than one way to get leads so you’re not forcing people into content. Problem is nobody is “trying new playstyles” just to get a lead. Sorry to break it to ya, but like I said earlier, nobody is YouTubing PvP builds, buying/crafting/farming gear, and strapping in to go get a lead. So if that was the purpose of putting the leads there, it was a pretty epic fail.

Isteris

I play mostly PVE but do like a bit Cyro from time to time, IC is not for me but having to go for the lead was not a problem. I parked a bank char there and would log on and look at the current map,when it was dominated by one faction who still had the most population I would log in the appropriate char and tag along until I got the drop. I have three rings complete and will now leave IC to those who love it and are good at it. I guess what I'm saying is none of the Mythic leads are hard to get if you have a plan.

Ezorus

How about all the crappy PvE us PvPers have to go through for gear? VMA, Vet trials.
Why not have a system like WoW used to have before it went to poo, where you have separate gear and the best PvP gear had to be earned from Honour points

jaws343

IrishOphidia wrote: »

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

The Malcath Band is a PvP item. It’s a crippling liability in PvE content where critting is insanely important to damage output.

It’s a PvP item with PvP as a part of its acquisition, I see nothing wrong with that.

I mean you’re labeling it a PvP set, but it’s not specifically a PvP set. Same as if I were to say Mother’s Sorrow is a PvE set so it shouldn’t be used in PvP.

It’s a Mythic. That a lot of players want and their frustrated when they can’t get to it because higher level players are keeping them from it.

By your own admission here, the viability of a set for PVP or PVE is subjective. Which means, having the pieces in all content is not gating them behind content they aren't intended for, which is something you actually said.

"Forcing players to go into an area to farm for something that isn’t PvP oriented, like a lead, isn’t PvP oriented."

The Malacath Band is an item set. It is neither PVP or PVE oriented. What content you use that item set in is irrelevant. And as such, that item is broken out into multiple in game experiences to obtain. There is nothing wrong with this.

And let's be real, if a new player is more concerned with farming a set piece they cannot even use right away, because I believe they auto drop at CP 160, that player has the wrong priorities in this game and should be helped out down a more correct path. Like learning how to play the game and level up before worrying about an item piece that they cannot even wear yet.

jaws343

IrishOphidia wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I don't think that's the true purpose of this forums thread.

You've made it crystal clear that you don't like being (in your words) "forced" into PvP to chase leads ... and have posted many replies already to rebut statements contrary to that belief.

Yes, I think I made it pretty clear that forcing people into content is poor development so I don’t see your point there. If you’d like to hop in group where I’ll link all of my mythic then just let me know when.

I run a discord and in that discord are lower level players who are voicing their frustrations and I decided to put them here. Just because I made a thread doesn’t mean I’m the one having the issue. Lul.

The suggestion was having more than one way to get leads so you’re not forcing people into content. Problem is nobody is “trying new playstyles” just to get a lead. Sorry to break it to ya, but like I said earlier, nobody is YouTubing PvP builds, buying/crafting/farming gear, and strapping in to go get a lead. So if that was the purpose of putting the leads there, it was a pretty epic fail.

Then they don't get the item. Period.

Just like if I don't feel like learning a new trial or dungeon, I don't get the item sets from there either.

Do the content, get the set. Don't do the content, don't get the set. Really simple. And literally applies to everything in this game. Why should it be exempt from PVP? The answer is, it shouldn't be.