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Why is everything about PvP?

  • mairwen85
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    Pvp and pve are completely different in many ways, each with their own set of disciplines and concerns, yet because of the overlap of zos implementation between pvp and pve, everything should be balanced for pvp first. It would get rid of a lot of the complaints if all testing for new items, sets, skills, etc was done on the pvp battlefield prior to introduction to pve. If its balanced for pvp, it will just work as designed for pve. I don't understand why they choose to do it this way where so much balancing and adjustment has to be done retrospectively. So much wasted time and effort and never a working solution for either game mode.
    Edited by mairwen85 on June 8, 2020 3:38PM
  • Jeremy
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    mairwen85 wrote: »
    Pvp and pve are completely different in many ways, each with their own set of disciplines and concerns, yet because of the overlap of zos implementation between pvp and pve, everything should be balanced for pvp first. It would get rid of a lot of the complaints if all testing for new items, sets, skills, etc was done on the pvp battlefield prior to introduction to pve. If its balanced for pvp, it will just work as designed for pve. I don't understand why they choose to do it this way where so much balancing and adjustment has to be done retrospectively. So much wasted time and effort and never a working solution for either game mode.

    I would wait hours for a battleground on the PTS and Cyrodil was almost always empty. So that might have something to do with their lack of testing in PvP.

    It might would help if they offered players in-game rewards to test PvP out on the PTS, something to encourage more people to do it. That or they should just hire more people so they can do the testing themselves.
    Edited by Jeremy on June 8, 2020 3:48PM
  • dotme
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    10:48 AM CDT
    • 30 threads on page 1 of General Discussion.
    • 2 threads concern PVP
    • 1 of them is this one
    So I don't think every post is about PvP. But PvP performance is a huge issue at the moment (Probably the worst it's ever been) and squeaky wheels.... well, they squeak.
    Edited by dotme on June 8, 2020 3:51PM
    PS5NA
  • mairwen85
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    Jeremy wrote: »
    mairwen85 wrote: »
    Pvp and pve are completely different in many ways, each with their own set of disciplines and concerns, yet because of the overlap of zos implementation between pvp and pve, everything should be balanced for pvp first. It would get rid of a lot of the complaints if all testing for new items, sets, skills, etc was done on the pvp battlefield prior to introduction to pve. If its balanced for pvp, it will just work as designed for pve. I don't understand why they choose to do it this way where so much balancing and adjustment has to be done retrospectively. So much wasted time and effort and never a working solution for either game mode.

    I would wait hours for a battleground on the PTS and Cyrodil was almost always empty. So that might have something to do with their lack of testing in PvP.

    It might would help if they offered players in-game rewards to test PvP out on the PTS, something to encourage more people to do it. That or they should just hire more people so they can do the testing themselves.

    Perhaps, but it still results in wasted effort to be constantly tweaking skills and sets in the name of balance when the option exists for a solid premise of it on delivery. Its a case of "measure twice, cut once", not "cut straight away and clench your butt cheeks no one notices the seams are misaligned and then keep cutting until you have to start over" .

    I would expect them to test it themselves first. PTS is staging the changes they have made, tested and that have passed QA - - its for user feedback, not primary testing.
    Edited by mairwen85 on June 8, 2020 4:02PM
  • MEBengalsFan2001
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    The model that is used for fantasy RPG MMOs is creation of PVE content to generate revenue. This includes new story, dungeon, raids/trials, etc.. Each piece of content created is to expand on the game lore and history and add to the main adventure to the game.

    Rarely is PVP touched and when it is, it is fixing gear or updating older maps. The updating of gear impacts PVE and when gear is update for PVE it impacts PVP as well. This is why having gear that can be used in both PVE and PVP causes imbalance issues.

    As for PVP content, most games that do develop a release/DLC all around PVP content sees a bigger drop in the game population if there is limited to no PVE content being released. This is why developers focus mainly on PVE.

    For ESO there is a big community of players who do PVP because the common flow of a game like ESO is get a character or few up to max level. Grind out dungeon and trial gear. Get main character max CP, max SP, etc... do housing, do some other stuff on other characters. Huh...getting bored, oh wait PVP go there.

    Than there are players who completely hate PVE and do it for gear that works wonders in PVP. You run into these players regularly in vet content because they are trying to get a specific gear set or monster helm. Typically making content take longer because their main character is PVP only and they hate venturing into PVE zones and this includes dungeons, etc... So what should be a fairly quick dungeon becomes a nightmare.

    Honestly as someone still playing through the various stories in the game I'm not super excited about the new content but currently looking forward towards it.
  • YstradClud
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    It's certainly a PvE game to me at least. No point taking PvP seriously on 340ms.
    |Pascweten| Breton Templar PC NA
    |Ceaulin| Bosmer Templar Xbox NA

    https://x.com/x_CHEMIST_x
  • Nova_J
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    Sorry, forgot to clarify that i’m on Xbox. So we don’t even have Greymoor yet

    People have been constantly trashing this update without it even being released yet. Every single post is about some sweaty competitive perspective and it irritates me to no end.

    Is this game owned by the PvPers or something? Are they paying off ZoS? (Was a joke but you never know) Yes i may have been naive but i always thought pvE was the vast majority of people.

    I just don’t want some game mode i never play to dictate every single thing that goes on in ESO. I for one actually think the Vamp line is gonna be cool as hell, i actually enjoy myself unlike these pessimists.

    Only real complaint i have is that the nightblade is kind of pointless as it’s literally vampire now. And who cares if this update biases stamina or magic, takes 5 minutes to buy back and redistribute points. People are way too try-hardy and min-max. It’s a VIDEO GAME

    Lmfaoo you actually played the vamp on the pts??? And enjoyed it? How interesting.......
  • Kalik_Gold
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    PvP is an afterthought in this game.... it is fun when it works.

    I prefer CP-PvP, and doesn't even have BGs for that (I know, I know someone will comment but when we had it it sux)
    Main Character:
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP Pure-class:
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed

    PvE: Specialty
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used:
    *Breton
    **Imperial
    ***Argonian




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    I reject your original premise. PVE drives most of this game. That said, PVPers are likely more vocal these days, and for good reason. PVP performance is a dumpster fire. If you never PVP'ed most people would think this game works just fine. If you only PVP, honestly, why are you still here.
    Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on June 8, 2020 6:46PM
  • Kadoin
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    Jeremy wrote: »
    mairwen85 wrote: »
    Pvp and pve are completely different in many ways, each with their own set of disciplines and concerns, yet because of the overlap of zos implementation between pvp and pve, everything should be balanced for pvp first. It would get rid of a lot of the complaints if all testing for new items, sets, skills, etc was done on the pvp battlefield prior to introduction to pve. If its balanced for pvp, it will just work as designed for pve. I don't understand why they choose to do it this way where so much balancing and adjustment has to be done retrospectively. So much wasted time and effort and never a working solution for either game mode.

    I would wait hours for a battleground on the PTS and Cyrodil was almost always empty. So that might have something to do with their lack of testing in PvP.

    It might would help if they offered players in-game rewards to test PvP out on the PTS, something to encourage more people to do it. That or they should just hire more people so they can do the testing themselves.

    Well, you don't exactly get anything for reporting a bug, not even thanks most of the time, and they ignore a majority of input, so what do you expect people to eventually do when they start to believe they aren't being heard and don't matter?

    They will simply stop testing.

    Bandwidth and time are both not free for the end-user. What then, do players really gain from testing on the PTS when the game still goes to live with the same exact bugs they have reported on PTS, or abysmal balance and performance?
  • D0PAMINE
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    Kadoin wrote: »
    Jeremy wrote: »
    mairwen85 wrote: »
    Pvp and pve are completely different in many ways, each with their own set of disciplines and concerns, yet because of the overlap of zos implementation between pvp and pve, everything should be balanced for pvp first. It would get rid of a lot of the complaints if all testing for new items, sets, skills, etc was done on the pvp battlefield prior to introduction to pve. If its balanced for pvp, it will just work as designed for pve. I don't understand why they choose to do it this way where so much balancing and adjustment has to be done retrospectively. So much wasted time and effort and never a working solution for either game mode.

    I would wait hours for a battleground on the PTS and Cyrodil was almost always empty. So that might have something to do with their lack of testing in PvP.

    It might would help if they offered players in-game rewards to test PvP out on the PTS, something to encourage more people to do it. That or they should just hire more people so they can do the testing themselves.

    Well, you don't exactly get anything for reporting a bug, not even thanks most of the time, and they ignore a majority of input, so what do you expect people to eventually do when they start to believe they aren't being heard and don't matter?

    They will simply stop testing.

    Bandwidth and time are both not free for the end-user. What then, do players really gain from testing on the PTS when the game still goes to live with the same exact bugs they have reported on PTS, or abysmal balance and performance?

    @koolio was one of the most vocal on the forums for bugs. He even had a megathread where he listed a lot of priority ones were listed with a rough timestamp of how long the issues have been on live. [snip]

    [Edited to remove Discussing Disciplinary Action]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 9, 2020 1:24PM
  • precambria
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    Because it's one of the only things in the game where you build really matters and you get to do things other than just BiS trial gear on your toon
  • Jeremy
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    Kadoin wrote: »
    Jeremy wrote: »
    mairwen85 wrote: »
    Pvp and pve are completely different in many ways, each with their own set of disciplines and concerns, yet because of the overlap of zos implementation between pvp and pve, everything should be balanced for pvp first. It would get rid of a lot of the complaints if all testing for new items, sets, skills, etc was done on the pvp battlefield prior to introduction to pve. If its balanced for pvp, it will just work as designed for pve. I don't understand why they choose to do it this way where so much balancing and adjustment has to be done retrospectively. So much wasted time and effort and never a working solution for either game mode.

    I would wait hours for a battleground on the PTS and Cyrodil was almost always empty. So that might have something to do with their lack of testing in PvP.

    It might would help if they offered players in-game rewards to test PvP out on the PTS, something to encourage more people to do it. That or they should just hire more people so they can do the testing themselves.

    Well, you don't exactly get anything for reporting a bug, not even thanks most of the time, and they ignore a majority of input, so what do you expect people to eventually do when they start to believe they aren't being heard and don't matter?

    They will simply stop testing.

    Bandwidth and time are both not free for the end-user. What then, do players really gain from testing on the PTS when the game still goes to live with the same exact bugs they have reported on PTS, or abysmal balance and performance?

    I think that's definitely part of the problem. It's why I suggested in that post they should reward players for testing things out on the PTS - especially on the PvP end where it's obvious they could use some additional help.
  • eso_lags
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    Sorry, forgot to clarify that i’m on Xbox. So we don’t even have Greymoor yet

    People have been constantly trashing this update without it even being released yet. Every single post is about some sweaty competitive perspective and it irritates me to no end.

    Is this game owned by the PvPers or something? Are they paying off ZoS? (Was a joke but you never know) Yes i may have been naive but i always thought pvE was the vast majority of people.

    I just don’t want some game mode i never play to dictate every single thing that goes on in ESO. I for one actually think the Vamp line is gonna be cool as hell, i actually enjoy myself unlike these pessimists.

    Only real complaint i have is that the nightblade is kind of pointless as it’s literally vampire now. And who cares if this update biases stamina or magic, takes 5 minutes to buy back and redistribute points. People are way too try-hardy and min-max. It’s a VIDEO GAME

    Any idea what zos has actually done for pvpers? Because the list is pretty small imo, especially compared to pve. Every update is a pve update with good stuff for pvp, but we have to pve to get it. We have had 1 pvp focused update since launch, IC, and BGs added in morrowind. 17 (i think) pve dlcs and 1 pvp dlc.We rarely get anything new, get 2-3 events per year, and midyear mayhem has gotten canceled a couple times iirc.

    On top of all that, performance is abysmal in cyrodil, and has been for years, so we can barely play the damn game as intended. And that is and has always been my biggest grievance with this company. You're on xbox, go try to pvp in a pop locked 30 day camp.

    And ya a lot of people complain about broken sets. Many complaints on the forums, and in general, are nonsense. But others are not.
    Edited by eso_lags on June 9, 2020 7:28AM
  • Sergykid
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    people really like writing walls of text. An Einstein quote, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

    pvp is the endgame for solo players, and this game is solo rpg online.
    pve bosses do not complain, so in pvp must be done balance, hence the debates
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • mairwen85
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    Sergykid wrote: »
    people really like writing walls of text. An Einstein quote, "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

    pvp is the endgame for solo players, and this game is solo rpg online.
    pve bosses do not complain, so in pvp must be done balance, hence the debates

    PvE is a power fantasy, PvP is tactical play. If you only focus to satisfy the power fantasy, you disrupt the tactical because you've introduced something overpowered. Weighing it off against sacrifice and counter play first, you can still satisfy the power fantasy and retain the strategic elements of use. It's a simple approach, and much less work, I really don't get why it isn't the go to method.
  • Firstmep
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    Sorry, forgot to clarify that i’m on Xbox. So we don’t even have Greymoor yet

    People have been constantly trashing this update without it even being released yet. Every single post is about some sweaty competitive perspective and it irritates me to no end.

    Is this game owned by the PvPers or something? Are they paying off ZoS? (Was a joke but you never know) Yes i may have been naive but i always thought pvE was the vast majority of people.

    I just don’t want some game mode i never play to dictate every single thing that goes on in ESO. I for one actually think the Vamp line is gonna be cool as hell, i actually enjoy myself unlike these pessimists.

    Only real complaint i have is that the nightblade is kind of pointless as it’s literally vampire now. And who cares if this update biases stamina or magic, takes 5 minutes to buy back and redistribute points. People are way too try-hardy and min-max. It’s a VIDEO GAME

    The main quest line of Greymoor is a cliché ridden letdown at best.
    The antiquities system was ridiculously bug ridden, the grind for mythic items is both boring and disgusting( camping the same world boss for 3-4 hours is not what I call interesting game play, sorry).
    The new trial is has multiple sets that most endgame pve players won't touch with a 10 foot pole, despite extensive feedback on pts.

    So it's not just pvp, and I haven't even begun on the myraid of performance issues, hordes of new bugs introduced with Greymoor, the absolute joke of a launch on PC, people who didn't buy the chapter got access to it anyway, farmed their mythic and get to keep them.

    Plenty of non pvp issues.
  • soniku4ikblis
    soniku4ikblis
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    [snip]

    PVPers do not own this game lol. ZOS owns this [snip]

    Who plays the game? Casual players do. Those who purchase from the Crown Store do. Those who pay monthly subscriptions do.

    PVP is a very small subculture of this entire format. I wouldn't even say it is more than 1/8th of the subscription base.

    [snip]

    [Edited to remove Baiting and Bashing]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 9, 2020 6:15PM
    __._-*._._._.-*'"{Sonic Euphoric Bliss}"'*-._._._.*-_.__
  • Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo
    Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo
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    Hi at um...'dat name'...

    Yes PVP has become an epicentre of attention and complaints because of the horrible performance we have to endure with little no acknowledgement from the game producer.
    A large player base jumps into PVP each day and it is a highly active part of ESO.
  • Bradyfjord
    Bradyfjord
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    As with most games, the PvP'ers are a very small percentage of players but they are very vocal. Plus, the PvP systems are terrible so they have a lot more to complain about that others.

    In my opinion, I think it's more accurate to say that most games have very few players that 'only' pvp. There's quite a few players that play both, with a small group that won't pvp at all.
  • Sergykid
    Sergykid
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    Firstmep wrote: »
    [...]people who didn't buy the chapter got access to it anyway, farmed their mythic and get to keep them.[...]

    what? is this true? so who didn't buy the chapter and went there (as an exploit you could say), get to keep the mythic items? this can't be true, i hope it either didn't work or these got removed. Otherwise it's not fair toward the players that didn't abuse the unpaid access.
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • TheRealDrRat
    TheRealDrRat
    ✭✭
    I can
    Sorry, forgot to clarify that i’m on Xbox. So we don’t even have Greymoor yet

    People have been constantly trashing this update without it even being released yet. Every single post is about some sweaty competitive perspective and it irritates me to no end.

    Is this game owned by the PvPers or something? Are they paying off ZoS? (Was a joke but you never know) Yes i may have been naive but i always thought pvE was the vast majority of people.

    I just don’t want some game mode i never play to dictate every single thing that goes on in ESO. I for one actually think the Vamp line is gonna be cool as hell, i actually enjoy myself unlike these pessimists.

    Only real complaint i have is that the nightblade is kind of pointless as it’s literally vampire now. And who cares if this update biases stamina or magic, takes 5 minutes to buy back and redistribute points. People are way too try-hardy and min-max. It’s a VIDEO GAME

    I can certainly understand people's disappointment with the patch, this includes myself. These online multiplayers are just getting a little bit tiresome with constant changes. Video gamers are getting older and we don't have the time to re-farm, we just want to play and we have jobs now. It's just a way for the company to keep customers buying in the end. On the other hand I agree: Why is everything about PvP?
  • Firstmep
    Firstmep
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    ✭✭✭
    Sergykid wrote: »
    Sergykid wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    [...]people who didn't buy the chapter got access to it anyway, farmed their mythic and get to keep them.[...]

    what? is this true? so who didn't buy the chapter and went there (as an exploit you could say), get to keep the mythic items? this can't be true, i hope it either didn't work or these got removed. Otherwise it's not fair toward the players that didn't abuse the unpaid access.

    [Quoted post was removed]

    Sorry didn't read this topic for a while and yes, ppl who didn't buy the chapter had access and some ppl farmed mythic before zeni fixed it and didn't remove the items from them.
    Same way ppl created necromancers without having Elswyr last year and got to keep them.
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 12, 2020 1:27PM
  • Sergykid
    Sergykid
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    Firstmep wrote: »
    Sergykid wrote: »
    Sergykid wrote: »
    Firstmep wrote: »
    [...]people who didn't buy the chapter got access to it anyway, farmed their mythic and get to keep them.[...]

    what? is this true? so who didn't buy the chapter and went there (as an exploit you could say), get to keep the mythic items? this can't be true, i hope it either didn't work or these got removed. Otherwise it's not fair toward the players that didn't abuse the unpaid access.

    [Quoted post was removed]

    Sorry didn't read this topic for a while and yes, ppl who didn't buy the chapter had access and some ppl farmed mythic before zeni fixed it and didn't remove the items from them.
    Same way ppl created necromancers without having Elswyr last year and got to keep them.

    not sure this is true, i don't think Zeni would allow this. It's encouraging exploiting, like "if you exploit this before we fix it, you're free". If someone exploits a combat bug he gets banned even if the exploit is fixed afterward.
    -PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube
  • AmoralOne
    AmoralOne
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    I just don’t want some game mode i never play to dictate every single thing that goes on in ESO.

    Your PvE content is never going to have an advantage over you, or be broken. You will always have a way to beat it, because it never changes. It never mixes things up. You can have timers, and know exactly when something is about to happen.

    PvP doesnt work that way. Everyone is always trying to out play the next person, which means people are always going to find the broken skill/set, and use it. Once one person does it, all people do it. Then you have a server filled with players who have to run broken skill/sets or not be able to play. Therefor things have to be balanced.

    PvE content will never change. Skoria is still going to do the same rotations, everyone PvE boss is still going to do the same rotation. Because your ability got nerfed to fix the issue with over powered skills in PvP means nothing. You are fighting a computer. YOU can change. PvP'ers have to fight all those people trying to exploit all the time. We cant just not fight them, or they run the game.
    PC NA - EP's Greatest Support
  • Destai
    Destai
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    ✭✭✭✭
    What's hilarious is they refuse to balance skills separately between PVE and PVP while simultaneously ignoring the performance that's plagued PVP for...ever? Talk about mixed signals.
  • Alomar
    Alomar
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    2015-2019 ESO PvPer's: This game's lag and bug count get's worse each patch it, can we get some improvements up in here?

    2019-2020 ESO PvEer's: Wow, why is it getting so laggy and why are there so many bugs all of the sudden?

    Nothing new going on, just finally so bad it's impacting everyone now. Move along citizen.....
    Haxus Council Member
    Former Havoc Commander
    Former DiE officer
    Alomar: 5 Stars - Beast: 3 stars - Kurudin: 5th NA emperor
    Awaiting New World, Camelot Unchained, and Crowfall
  • Urvoth
    Urvoth
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    ✭✭
    Sorry, forgot to clarify that i’m on Xbox. So we don’t even have Greymoor yet

    People have been constantly trashing this update without it even being released yet. Every single post is about some sweaty competitive perspective and it irritates me to no end.

    Is this game owned by the PvPers or something? Are they paying off ZoS? (Was a joke but you never know) Yes i may have been naive but i always thought pvE was the vast majority of people.

    I just don’t want some game mode i never play to dictate every single thing that goes on in ESO. I for one actually think the Vamp line is gonna be cool as hell, i actually enjoy myself unlike these pessimists.

    Only real complaint i have is that the nightblade is kind of pointless as it’s literally vampire now. And who cares if this update biases stamina or magic, takes 5 minutes to buy back and redistribute points. People are way too try-hardy and min-max. It’s a VIDEO GAME

    Uhhh what? This update wasn't great for PvP or endgame PvE. Endgame PvE got a super easy trial which some groups got trifectas for during the first week. What are they going to do content wise now since it's probably the only trial for the year?

    The vamp line is generally terrible for PvP and also was a bad change for PvE depending on the class and content. If the changes aren't affecting you, then why would you be irritated by a "sweaty competitive perspective" and the players who are actually impacted by this?

    PvP hasn't gotten an actual content update for 3 years now, so idk how you could say PvPers own the game or pay off ZOS. It's just an ignorant, biased perspective. As someone who has done lots of PvE AND PvP, ZOS tends to give less content for both endgames, and the majority of content is just casual quester stuff for people like you anyway.
  • bellatrixed
    bellatrixed
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    +1 for "sweaty competitive perspective"

    I agree entirely, PVPers always seem so angry all the time.

    The game has lots of problems--the load screens in Cyrodiil for instance are horrid and I have no idea how they can't fix them, but this is still not the failure of a game angry forum PVPers would have you believe. Every MMO has problems.
    ESO Roleplay | RP community for all factions/servers/platforms
  • Rahar
    Rahar
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sorry, forgot to clarify that i’m on Xbox. So we don’t even have Greymoor yet

    People have been constantly trashing this update without it even being released yet. Every single post is about some sweaty competitive perspective and it irritates me to no end.

    Is this game owned by the PvPers or something? Are they paying off ZoS? (Was a joke but you never know) Yes i may have been naive but i always thought pvE was the vast majority of people.

    I just don’t want some game mode i never play to dictate every single thing that goes on in ESO. I for one actually think the Vamp line is gonna be cool as hell, i actually enjoy myself unlike these pessimists.

    Only real complaint i have is that the nightblade is kind of pointless as it’s literally vampire now. And who cares if this update biases stamina or magic, takes 5 minutes to buy back and redistribute points. People are way too try-hardy and min-max. It’s a VIDEO GAME

    If you have to ask, you'll never know. Or you haven't played PvP.
    NeRf MaGsOrC
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